Castiel vs Metatron vs Lucifer vs Michael

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#101  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@shadowpro said:

@bat_girl_cc:

I actually see cas stomping on mike, he was capale of breaking the binding spell not even death could break

that puts him somewhere near death which is more powerfull than the brothers

@wut said:

@shadowpro: I thought it was odd that Michael would do that too. Not that he is a 'compassionate' being, but he never struck me as a sadist. More of a 'Doesn't kill/harm humans for fun but doesn't go out of his way to avoid hurting them' kind of person. But that is what they said they were doing to Sam and Adam.

yeah those bastards, looks like lucy finaly got him to see the fun in that like "See what this fucking humans do? Now is not one, but the two of us who are caged."

That spell was designed to hold Death...not angels, so Castiel breaking it, doesn't prove anything.

The point is, everyone agrees that Michael is the strongest, since Castiel once told Dean that if he went to where Michael and Lúcifer were going to fight, the only thing that Dean would see, would be Michael killing his brother (Sam/Lúcifer's vessel), and since Castiel was there, when Michael beat Lúcifer in the first place, we have to assume, that he knows what he's talking about...and even Castiel when powered up by the monster's souls, still made sure to ask Crowley, to keep Micahel and Lúcifer in the cage, which tells me, that even with all of that power that he had back then, Castiel still feared both Michael and Lúcifer, meaning that he didn't thought he could handle them.

But Metatron with the tablets juice, its basicaly the new God...so, in my opinion, Metatron stomps if he's juiced up here, and Michael stomps, if he isn't.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@shadowpro:

what the f? if that noweledge was so useful, why didn't he do anything against luci? because that knwoeldge is useless against him,besides what kind of speels is he going to pull off? a vanishing sigil? and what does manipulating scripts is uselful for?

What the F is right. He wasn't even a concept when Lucifer was topside, so I don't see your point. Lucifer is an angel, enochian sigil magic works on Angels as evidenced by Lucifer not being able to find Sam and Dean when protected by enochian sigil magic. All of Heaven has been looking for him since the dawn of time and he was able to remain hidden until Sam began to resonate with the word. Since Metatron can manipulate enochian script at will, it will be useful in creating bindings and warding sigils, as well as the sigils that prevent angelic beings from using their powers. The fact that he is the only being outside of God and prophets to be able to read the word of God, because he wrote it, he has more knowledge about angels and their weaknesses than Lucifer and Micheal have. So even without tapping the tablet, he is a threat to them. Why would Heaven be hunting him down if they did not believe he was threat? He had knowledge that only God possessed, that's why.

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#103  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@lordofallhumans said:

@shadowpro:

what the f? if that noweledge was so useful, why didn't he do anything against luci? because that knwoeldge is useless against him,besides what kind of speels is he going to pull off? a vanishing sigil? and what does manipulating scripts is uselful for?

What the F is right. He wasn't even a concept when Lucifer was topside, so I don't see your point. Lucifer is an angel, enochian sigil magic works on Angels as evidenced by Lucifer not being able to find Sam and Dean when protected by enochian sigil magic. All of Heaven has been looking for him since the dawn of time and he was able to remain hidden until Sam began to resonate with the word. Since Metatron can manipulate enochian script at will, it will be useful in creating bindings and warding sigils, as well as the sigils that prevent angelic beings from using their powers. The fact that he is the only being outside of God and prophets to be able to read the word of God, because he wrote it, he has more knowledge about angels and their weaknesses than Lucifer and Micheal have. So even without tapping the tablet, he is a threat to them. Why would Heaven be hunting him down if they did not believe he was threat? He had knowledge that only God possessed, that's why.

I can see what you're saying...but to me, without the tablets, Metatron would represente as much of a threat as a hunter would...i mean, its like saying that Dean could beat Lúcifer...sure, he could do some research, and pull off some trick...but i think the O.P's creator, wantted us to say who's the strongest...and without the tablet's power, Metatron isn't beating any Archangel.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@lordofallhumans said:

@shadowpro:

what the f? if that noweledge was so useful, why didn't he do anything against luci? because that knwoeldge is useless against him,besides what kind of speels is he going to pull off? a vanishing sigil? and what does manipulating scripts is uselful for?

What the F is right. He wasn't even a concept when Lucifer was topside, so I don't see your point. Lucifer is an angel, enochian sigil magic works on Angels as evidenced by Lucifer not being able to find Sam and Dean when protected by enochian sigil magic. All of Heaven has been looking for him since the dawn of time and he was able to remain hidden until Sam began to resonate with the word. Since Metatron can manipulate enochian script at will, it will be useful in creating bindings and warding sigils, as well as the sigils that prevent angelic beings from using their powers. The fact that he is the only being outside of God and prophets to be able to read the word of God, because he wrote it, he has more knowledge about angels and their weaknesses than Lucifer and Micheal have. So even without tapping the tablet, he is a threat to them. Why would Heaven be hunting him down if they did not believe he was threat? He had knowledge that only God possessed, that's why.

I can see what you're saying...but to me, without the tablets, Metatron would represente as much of a threat as a hunter would...i mean, its like saying that Dean could beat Lúcifer...sure, he could do some research, and pull off some trick...but i think the O.P's creator, wantted us to say who's the strongest...and without the tablet's power, Metatron isn't beating any Archangel.

I agree, but often we talk about power vs experience and knowledge. Power is not the be all end all unless that powers is used to wipe the field the clean. Neither archangel uses power in that manner. Metatron is still a threat, because he simply knows more about themselves than they know about him because he speaks the language of God and they don't. This is a vs battle not a who is the most powerful battle, because according to canon the most powerful would be Metatron with the tablet as he was stated to have power equal to God. Even without that power he is a threat to everybody except GodCas because GodCas is a wild card that God didn't prepare them for.

Hunters are human, there is no comparison when it comes to an angel that can do what Metatron can do. Hunters cannot manipulate enochian script, they must draw it and in some cases in their own blood. He is far larger a threat than some hunter, even if that hunter knew everything he knew.

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#105  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@lordofallhumans said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@shadowpro:

what the f? if that noweledge was so useful, why didn't he do anything against luci? because that knwoeldge is useless against him,besides what kind of speels is he going to pull off? a vanishing sigil? and what does manipulating scripts is uselful for?

What the F is right. He wasn't even a concept when Lucifer was topside, so I don't see your point. Lucifer is an angel, enochian sigil magic works on Angels as evidenced by Lucifer not being able to find Sam and Dean when protected by enochian sigil magic. All of Heaven has been looking for him since the dawn of time and he was able to remain hidden until Sam began to resonate with the word. Since Metatron can manipulate enochian script at will, it will be useful in creating bindings and warding sigils, as well as the sigils that prevent angelic beings from using their powers. The fact that he is the only being outside of God and prophets to be able to read the word of God, because he wrote it, he has more knowledge about angels and their weaknesses than Lucifer and Micheal have. So even without tapping the tablet, he is a threat to them. Why would Heaven be hunting him down if they did not believe he was threat? He had knowledge that only God possessed, that's why.

I can see what you're saying...but to me, without the tablets, Metatron would represente as much of a threat as a hunter would...i mean, its like saying that Dean could beat Lúcifer...sure, he could do some research, and pull off some trick...but i think the O.P's creator, wantted us to say who's the strongest...and without the tablet's power, Metatron isn't beating any Archangel.

I agree, but often we talk about power vs experience and knowledge. Power is not the be all end all unless that powers is used to wipe the field the clean. Neither archangel uses power in that manner. Metatron is still a threat, because he simply knows more about themselves than they know about him because he speaks the language of God and they don't. This is a vs battle not a who is the most powerful battle, because according to canon the most powerful would be Metatron with the tablet as he was stated to have power equal to God. Even without that power he is a threat to everybody except GodCas because GodCas is a wild card that God didn't prepare them for.

Hunters are human, there is no comparison when it comes to an angel that can do what Metatron can do. Hunters cannot manipulate enochian script, they must draw it and in some cases in their own blood. He is far larger a threat than some hunter, even if that hunter knew everything he knew.

Yes, even without the tablets, Metatron could win...but he wouldn't be taking a majority against any of them...Dean and Sam have luck in 99,9% of the times they beat a major threat!...yeah, Metatron's chances are a bit better, but he would lose 7/10 or 8/10 against any of the Archangels, IMO. But if he has the tablets power, than he spite-stomps 10/10.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@lordofallhumans said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@shadowpro:

what the f? if that noweledge was so useful, why didn't he do anything against luci? because that knwoeldge is useless against him,besides what kind of speels is he going to pull off? a vanishing sigil? and what does manipulating scripts is uselful for?

What the F is right. He wasn't even a concept when Lucifer was topside, so I don't see your point. Lucifer is an angel, enochian sigil magic works on Angels as evidenced by Lucifer not being able to find Sam and Dean when protected by enochian sigil magic. All of Heaven has been looking for him since the dawn of time and he was able to remain hidden until Sam began to resonate with the word. Since Metatron can manipulate enochian script at will, it will be useful in creating bindings and warding sigils, as well as the sigils that prevent angelic beings from using their powers. The fact that he is the only being outside of God and prophets to be able to read the word of God, because he wrote it, he has more knowledge about angels and their weaknesses than Lucifer and Micheal have. So even without tapping the tablet, he is a threat to them. Why would Heaven be hunting him down if they did not believe he was threat? He had knowledge that only God possessed, that's why.

I can see what you're saying...but to me, without the tablets, Metatron would represente as much of a threat as a hunter would...i mean, its like saying that Dean could beat Lúcifer...sure, he could do some research, and pull off some trick...but i think the O.P's creator, wantted us to say who's the strongest...and without the tablet's power, Metatron isn't beating any Archangel.

I agree, but often we talk about power vs experience and knowledge. Power is not the be all end all unless that powers is used to wipe the field the clean. Neither archangel uses power in that manner. Metatron is still a threat, because he simply knows more about themselves than they know about him because he speaks the language of God and they don't. This is a vs battle not a who is the most powerful battle, because according to canon the most powerful would be Metatron with the tablet as he was stated to have power equal to God. Even without that power he is a threat to everybody except GodCas because GodCas is a wild card that God didn't prepare them for.

Hunters are human, there is no comparison when it comes to an angel that can do what Metatron can do. Hunters cannot manipulate enochian script, they must draw it and in some cases in their own blood. He is far larger a threat than some hunter, even if that hunter knew everything he knew.

Yes, even without the tablets, Metatron could win...but he wouldn't be taking a majority against any of them...Dean and Sam have luck in 99,9% of the times they beat a major threat!...yeah, Metatron's chances are a bit better, but he would lose 7/10 or 8/10 against any of the Archangels, IMO. But if he has the tablets power, than he spite-stomps 10/10.

Once again I agree, I never said tabletless Metatron would win only that he was a threat, only because people overestimate SP Micheal and Lucifer, their speculative powers are only based on what we have seen Gabriel do. It was never stated that Lucifer was more powerful than Gab and Raph, we only know that he is older (than Gab) so we assume he is.

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TheImmovableObject52

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@Wut Metatron gets dropped by a roided Castiel however both are children in comparison to Lucifer and Michael, both Archangels feats make there younger brothers look like childs play the real contest would be how quick either Michael or Lucifer would merc both cas and metatron simultaneously then it would be Micheal vs Lucifer. My money is on Lucifer soley because he posesses his true vessel

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@Wut Metatron gets dropped by a roided Castiel however both are children in comparison to Lucifer and Michael, both Archangels feats make there younger brothers look like childs play the real contest would be how quick either Michael or Lucifer would merc both cas and metatron simultaneously then it would be Micheal vs Lucifer. My money is on Lucifer soley because he posesses his true vessel

Metatron has the tablet putting him on par with the real God, not some mutated angel pretending to be God. Castiel with the souls can destroy archangels with a finger snap. Micheal is basically featless except for killing Anna and banishing Uriel, and Lucifers feats amount to killing beings (featless weakling gods and a nearly human angel)lower than Anna and Uriel. Michael stomps Lucifer, Castiels stomps Michael and then Metatron stomps Castiel. Or Castiel stomps the brothers and then Metatron stomps him, or Metatron stomps them all. Either way Michael and Lucifer are non-factors especially since you are talking feats that neither of them have a lot of worth mentioning considering who they are fighting in this battle.

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@lordofallhumans: please you put too much faith in castiel if he were powerful enough to even withstand a fight with Michael and Lucifer he himself would have killed them both but instead avoided them like the plauge even though he was super charged he killed Raphael big whoop last i heard he was the weakest of the 4 Archangels rapheal was miniscule compared to Lucifer and micheal

And its evident he knew he was nowhere in comparison to either of the two, the only beings that did not fear Michael or Lucifer were God no not metatron and Death both Lucifer and Michael were so powerful everyone in the spiritual realm and physical realm knew of there power they helped God fight The Darkness

Michael and Lucifers powers were at a cosmic level what were castiels feats killing 1000s of weak angels and raphael Lucifer himself could merc the angelic host without a thought only michael would be a true challenge The Angel Tablet is tricky though but if dean and sam along with cas could stop him you so could either michael or lucifer

Then again cas himself thought he had godlike power but was greatly mistaken Metatron was god because there was no one at the time that could fight him let him say that infront of Michael or Lucifer he would get wrecked

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#110  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@theimmovableobject52 said:

@lordofallhumans: please you put too much faith in castiel if he were powerful enough to even withstand a fight with Michael and Lucifer he himself would have killed them both but instead avoided them like the plauge even though he was super charged he killed Raphael big whoop last i heard he was the weakest of the 4 Archangels rapheal was miniscule compared to Lucifer and micheal

And its evident he knew he was nowhere in comparison to either of the two, the only beings that did not fear Michael or Lucifer were God no not metatron and Death both Lucifer and Michael were so powerful everyone in the spiritual realm and physical realm knew of there power they helped God fight The Darkness

Michael and Lucifers powers were at a cosmic level what were castiels feats killing 1000s of weak angels and raphael Lucifer himself could merc the angelic host without a thought only michael would be a true challenge The Angel Tablet is tricky though but if dean and sam along with cas could stop him you so could either michael or lucifer

Then again cas himself thought he had godlike power but was greatly mistaken Metatron was god because there was no one at the time that could fight him let him say that infront of Michael or Lucifer he would get wrecked

You specifically said by feats. Micheal is nearly featless and Lucifer had no impressive feats at all. Cas was above archangels and it was shown when he snapped his fingers and obliterated one, apparently all it takes is 50000 souls from Hell to one shot an archangel all the souls of Purgatory is overkill. For all their implied power they did nothing on the show that put them above Cas with the souls, he stomps them and then Metatron stomps him.

EDIT: More proof of Cas with the souls and Metatron being more powerful was their power to overcome things that archangels couldn't like enochian warding and holy fire. Two archangels were trapped by holy fire and Micheal was harmed by it , while Metatron put it out with his breath from the inside. Warding hid Sam and Dean from the archangels, while Cas and Metatron were not stopped at all by any Enochian magic. Fear is not always a testament of who is more powerful people are afraid of spiders but we can all literally stomp spiders. I also don't remember either of them expressing actual fear of Michael or Lucifer. Castiel and Metatron didn't want them out because they were on missions to get all angels on their side, Michael and Lucifer would have been a threat to the order they were trying to establish not to them personally. Based on feats Cas and Metatron are more powerful, based on implied power (which is the go to for most people that argue for them) Michael and Lucifer still get stomped.

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PrinceAragorn1

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Going with michael. He seemed confident enough of beating lucifer, and considering he has defeated lucifer before....

We don't know how powerful castiel would be without leviathans.. What did metatron do to make him so impressive?

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LordOfAllHumans

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Going with michael. He seemed confident enough of beating lucifer, and considering he has defeated lucifer before....

We don't know how powerful castiel would be without leviathans.. What did metatron do to make him so impressive?

Castiel with only 50000 Hell souls one shotted an archangel. Since the Leviathan dont have any extraphysical powers it's safe to say they added nothing to his power in that regard they simply would have added physical strength and durability as he had none of his boosted powers once the souls were removed and the Leviathan remained. Michael was only confident he could beat Lucifer because he believed in what God allegedly planned, turns out he was wrong. What Metatron did that put him above them was overcome angelic obstacles they couldn't. Micheal did nothing but give speeches and kill a rogue angel, while Lucifer whined killed featless gods and near human angel. Metatron beat the crap out of and killed Dean with a mark that put him above every being Michael and Lucifer killed.

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I'd back Michael. Castiel feared him, and wanted to keep him in the cage. Michael is definitely above Lucifer. Metatron... I'd put him somewhere near Godstiel.

Michael > Lucifer > Godstiel >= Metatron