Cassandra Cain vs Luke Cage

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#151  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@sheenlantern said:

@bat_girl_cc:

And how many times did i ask you the same question, with you conveniently dodging it, and not asking it?

I've answered it about 61 times by now, the answer is a question you've been dodging.

LOL...how predictable...just like in the other thread...trying to downball Cassie, while ignoring all logic, and you get cornered, making stuff up, and lying...

Please, point out exactly where I've lied. Oh wait, you can't, because my argument is grounded in reality and does not exist simply to serve your cause of wanking Cassandra Cain to the moon and back.

Why lie dude?...i was the one that asked this question first, "why would anyone have the trouble of making a 3-inch-quartz window, to help secure a vault, if that quartz window couldn't sustain a bullet?" remember?

Yeees, and? This is relevant how? We both know this. Your response doesn't fit my question.

" There's no evidence...besides logic, you mean!...and i'm still waitting for you to answer to my first question, which you didn't and you won't, otherwise, this matter would be over.

In case, you forgot, the question is: " why would anyone have the trouble of making a 3-inch-quartz window, to help secure a vault, if that quartz window couldn't sustain a bullet? "...and don't answer me with another question, i want your honest opinion, on this one...anyway, you won't answer, because you haven't yet, and because you don't have a good answer....because there's none, except admitting that you're just trying do downball the feat by anymeans necessary, and ignoring all logic. "

I can see this is going to continue on until you actually address my response.

There's absolutely not a single goddamn freaking reason to even assume that window was bulletproof, the material it was made of is not bullet resistant, as the cleavage in a plate of quartz would be shattered by any type of ballistic attack, not a single reference is made to the window besides the fact that it's made of quartz, certainly not anything about it resisting gunfire. The vault it was in would draw no practical benefit from resisting bullets, because honestly, at what point are these guys gonna lock away people with guns in a vault that was cramped for a tiny asian girl?

So yeah, no where in the comic is it stated the window could stop a bullet, the material it's made of can't stop bullets and literally everything we know about it points to it not being bulletproof. You made that up to wank your favourite character. - Fact.

Of course not!...and that's why they had the trouble of making a quartz-window...maybe because quartz-window, is more pretty than a wall of bananas...lol.

...What the f*** are you talking about?

i'll repeat myself again..."i want your HONEST opinion on this one"...got it?...HONEST!...

Okay. You're full of it. That's my honest opinion.

I don't need to do anything...the scans are there for everyone to see them

Sure thing, just show me the scan where it says that window was bulletproof.

It doesn't?...can you prove it?

Sure I could, I could go and smash up my countertop with a hammer. Oh wait, I don't have to.

Loading Video...

There's your 4th hardest substance in the world for you. Looks exactly like the quartz in the comic, too.

i never said that comic quartz was more durable, than real life quartz...you were the one that used real life exemples, remember?...your quartz-countertops?

Yes...And? You say that as if they contradict?

since real life quartz its "just" the fourth hardest natural material in the world?

-Still no evidence for that-

Here's the part that matters: " Countertops – Beautiful and durable granite countertops remain popular, but quartz composite – “the closest thing to no maintenance, bullet-proof countertop material available today” – is gaining ground. "

Ahahahahah...sorry, but i just couldn't hold it! xD...you tried to downball the quartz feat, by using your quartz-made-countertops as an exemple, and you still got owned...ahah.

Jesus H....Why am I even bothering to debate with you when you can't even recognize a common simile when it's right in front of you? Not that a PLR article would be enough to base your argument on anyway. Regardless of the fact that, you know, said PLR article doesn't quote source either.

Oh, but i do have psychic powers!...and one of them, its called common sense...have you ever heard of it?...its not for everyone apparently...after debating you for quite sometime now, i don't think you have that special abillity...

If Cassie wasn't there, then, where were those guys looking surprised/scared, looking at?

...What guys?

No Caption Provided

For the millionth time, this is all we see when the bullet fired. How many times do I need to tell you this?

you say, that it defies logic the fact that Cassie didn't moved during the time the shooter pulled the trigger, right?...well, it also defies logic, that Cassie waitted that longer in the first place...since we can clearly see that in 3rd image, left side, everybody in the room was already looking at Cassie, minus the guy that opened the vault's door, and in the next image, right side, (the last one on the scan), we see Cassie STILL, standing still...so why was she still standing there?.

What do you mean "waited that long"? We see the dudes opening the vault, the camera pans, Batgirl is in the vault. At what was she 'waiting'? Should she have been bursting out before the vault had even fully opened? Would that have made sense to you?

.if moments before, she was already seeing people aiming guns at her, then why didn't she moved WAY before the shooter had a chance to pull the trigger?...

She...did....That's my entire argument.

Conclusion: your point is invalid, since you claim, that Cassie should have started moving by the time the shooter pulled the trigger, because it makes no sense, that she would wait untill the shooter fired the gun...but the fact is, Cassie was actually "waitting" for longer than that, since in the scan before, there's an image, when we can clearly see that everyboy in that room, was already looking at Cassie, when the vault's door was opened..so, why would Cassie wait that much time to move, in the first place?

Alright, how about you describe a scenario in which that would make sense, for Batgirl to rush outside the vault before it's even opened. Because that doesn't make sense to me.

What exactly didn't you understand there?...Cassie did out-paced that bullet, by beating the bullet to its mark by far!

You still haven't proved that. That's also completely irrelevant to what you were responding to.

Here, let me remind you:

No Caption Provided

Now who's dodging?

let's say that Cassie started moving by the time the shooter was pulling the trigger, how does that make it less impressive?

God help me. You really do have the memory of a goldfish, don't you?

No Caption Provided

you can't prove that Cassie was already moving by the time the shooter pulled the trigger

Congratulations Einstein, the fact that nothing can be proved is the basis for my entire argument.

Cassie is more than fast enough to Blitz the shooter anyway, as i've also, already proved as well

Yeeees, almost as if she's fast enough to move before he pulls the trigger. Wouldn't that be strange? Hm?

Holes, on your compreenshion/interpretation abilities, maybe...

Nope, my faculties are fine. You really did just try to pull a 180° by implying that the time it takes to pull a trigger (0.001 seconds, apparently) is too little time for Batgirl to move....Yet at the same time using that to argue that she's fast enough to outspeed the bullet.

Please, do me a favor, first, read my post's, and then, reply to me...otherwise, i'll be wasting time, repeating myself.

You've wasted enough of your time repeating nonsense like this.

No Caption Provided

LOL!...Dude, stop, just stop!...this all started in the other thread, when i made the claim that Cassie could hurt Spider-Man, and that she hits harder than Both Batman and Cap...you didn't agree, then i posted scans, like the one, where Cassie breaks through 3-inch-quartz, then i pointed out the obvious, by saying that the quartz was bullet proof, then you started lowballing the feat, by saying that there wasn't any proof that it was bullet proof (pretty ridiculous, if you ask me, since its obvious that it was, but that's where pure dowballing gets you...)...and you asked me for proof, you even used (a ridiculous exemple) of the quartz-made-countertops, to say that quartz wasn't bullet proof, and in my last post, i just proved that EVEN quartz-made-countertops are bullet proof!...that's just how durable quartz is!...and now, you're trying to donball quartz, as a material?...by posting some random video?...lol...what is that supposed to prove?...how do i know if the quartz being used on that video, wasn't the less durable type of quartz, there is?...Dude how many times did i mentioned that there's more than one type of quartz?...the point is, if even a quartz-made-countertop is bullet-proof, now just imagine, how durable was that 3-inch-quartz-window, designed to help secure a vault, that Cassie broke through, was!...

Just stop! in my last post, i just finished your WEAK argument, THE ONLY ONE you had made, regarding this feat, since the other thread, and it wasn't even a decent one...but then again, that's where pure downballing gets you.

" " ...What guys? "

They appear in the scan that (once again) you conviniently forgot to post, this one:

No Caption Provided

Third image, left side...i belive i've said this, at least, over 3 times in a row, now.

" For the millionth time, this is all we see when the bullet fired. How many times do I need to tell you this? "

So, is this how its going to be?...you're basically keep replying to me, ignoring my post's, and the points adressed in them, and you only copy paste, and answer to what you like?...lol, i don't see how we're suppose to get anywhere debating like this...i mean, you bring up a point, i adress that point, and then you reply to me, while ignoring my previous answer...this way its impossible...

" What do you mean "waited that long"? We see the dudes opening the vault, the camera pans, Batgirl is in the vault. At what was she 'waiting'? Should she have been bursting out before the vault had even fully opened? Would that have made sense to you? "

Do you see what i mean?...i said it, like 3 or 4 times in a row, now...i'll say it again, Third image, left side...

The vault's door was opened in the second image...in the third image, left side, the door was already opened, and everyone, minus the guy that opened the vault's door, was freaking out, and pulling out guns...and in the fourth image, the one on the right side,we see one guy with his gun already in position, and there's Cassie standing there...in front of hem...as she was in the image before, and that's why those guys were freaking out, so, why didn't Cassie moved then?...you see, you ask why should she wait until the shooter fired the gun?...which happened in the scan that you posted before, which happens after the fourth image, where Cassie is standing still looking at the gun-men...why didn't she moved there?...heck, why didn't she moved even before that? in the the image before? the 3rd on the left side?...

The point is, your argument for this feat, actually kinda of makes sense, the problem is, it's a flawled logic...because, by your logic, Cassie could have moved way before the shooter even had time to pull his gun out...

" Yeeees, almost as if she's fast enough to move before he pulls the trigger. Wouldn't that be strange? Hm? "

And wouldn't be equally strange, the fact that she could have actually have moved way before that, since she had the chance to do it, and since she is that fast?...as i already proved, and you agreed?...

" Nope, my faculties are fine. You really did just try to pull a 180° by implying that the time it takes to pull a trigger (0.001 seconds, apparently) is too little time for Batgirl to move....Yet at the same time using that to argue that she's fast enough to outspeed the bullet. "

Lol, please, don't pretend, that you didn't understood what i was trying to say...you know what my opinion on this subject is...Cassie did out-paced that bullet...the point that i adressed regarding the time to press a trigger, is that, even if you're right regarding this feat, Cassie's speed, would still be enough to out-pace a bullet, since pulling a trigger is a no-time thing, and by the time Cassie punched the shooter, the bullet was still half away from its target...you are here arguing what?...that Cassie is not fast enough to out-pace a bullet, or that Cassie is not fast enough to double a bullets speed?...because, you do understand, that even if you're right regarding this feat (you aren't) that would still place Cassie's raw speed/ reaction time, on above 700 mph, or even above that, right?

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Luke Cage FTW.

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Cage. She's not in T'Challa's class. Lol.

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#154  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@nova_prime76 said:

Cage. She's not in T'Challa's class. Lol.

Because?...

They are equals, or they are very close, as far as agillity, and skill goes.

They aren't equals, as far as speed and strengh goes...Cassie is faster, and Black Panther is stronger.

And since thei're both street-levelers, i'd say they are in the same class...or is Black Panther above street-level now?

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#155  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC
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#156  Edited By SheenLantern

@bat_girl_cc:

LOL!...Dude, stop, just stop!...this all started in the other thread, when i made the claim that Cassie could hurt Spider-Man, and that she hits harder than Both Batman and Cap...you didn't agree, then i posted scans, like the one, where Cassie breaks through 3-inch-quartz

Even though Cap and Bats have feats that eclipse that? Heck, remember that scan of Batman effortlessly breaking Mr. Freeze's provably bulletproof visor?

.you didn't agree, then i posted scans, like the one, where Cassie breaks through 3-inch-quartz, then i pointed out the obvious, by saying that the quartz was bullet proof,

You mean you made it up, weird how you feel the need to do that if the feat is as impressive as you're saying.

then you started lowballing the feat, by saying that there wasn't any proof that it was bullet proof (pretty ridiculous, if you ask me, since its obvious that it was,

If it's so obvious, why are you having such a hard time proving it?

you even used (a ridiculous exemple) of the quartz-made-countertops, to say that quartz wasn't bullet proof, and in my last post, i just proved that EVEN quartz-made-countertops are bullet proof!

When did you do that exactly? All I recall you doing is posting a PLR article using the word 'bullet-proof' as a simile.

and now, you're trying to donball quartz, as a material?...by posting some random video?...lol...what is that supposed to prove?...how do i know if the quartz being used on that video, wasn't the less durable type of quartz, there is?

Because we totally know that about the quartz in the comic, don't we? Get real, your argument sucks and you know it.

They appear in the scan that (once again) you conviniently forgot to post, this one:

Uh, I didn't forget to post it, I just didn't see the point of re-posting it for the millionth time when we both know what it looks like.

Third image, left side...i belive i've said this, at least, over 3 times in a row, now.

Yeah, newsflash buddy, the panel in the bottom right takes place after the one in the bottom left.

So, is this how its going to be?...you're basically keep replying to me, ignoring my post's, and the points adressed in them, and you only copy paste, and answer to what you like?...lol, i don't see how we're suppose to get anywhere debating like this...i mean, you bring up a point, i adress that point, and then you reply to me, while ignoring my previous answer...this way its impossible...

If you would kindly point out where these "guys" you are talking about are in this scan, I'd appreciate it.

No Caption Provided

Do you see what i mean?...i said it, like 3 or 4 times in a row, now...i'll say it again, Third image, left side...

The vault's door was opened in the second image...in the third image, left side, the door was already opened, and everyone, minus the guy that opened the vault's door, was freaking out, and pulling out guns...and in the fourth image, the one on the right side,we see one guy with his gun already in position, and there's Cassie standing there...in front of hem...as she was in the image before, and that's why those guys were freaking out, so, why didn't Cassie moved then?...you see, you ask why should she wait until the shooter fired the gun?...which happened in the scan that you posted before, which happens after the fourth image, where Cassie is standing still looking at the gun-men...why didn't she moved there?...heck, why didn't she moved even before that? in the the image before? the 3rd on the left side?...

Again, I'd have to ask you what the logic in gnawing and clawing trying to get out of the entrance of a vault that hasn't been fully opened yet with no knowledge on what's on the other side would be.

Also, you call this "In position"?

No Caption Provided

And wouldn't be equally strange, the fact that she could have actually have moved way before that, since she had the chance to do it, and since she is that fast?

Not really, for reasons stated above.

don't pretend, that you didn't understood what i was trying to say

I knew exactly what you were trying to say. I even gave a little summary.

No Caption Provided

, Cassie's speed, would still be enough to out-pace a bullet, since pulling a trigger is a no-time thing,

It takes a helluva lot longer to pull a trigger than for a bullet to travel through the air.

and by the time Cassie punched the shooter, the bullet was still half away from its target

Except we don't know where the target was because it wasn't in shot when the bullet was fired.

because, you do understand, that even if you're right regarding this feat (you aren't) that would still place Cassie's raw speed/ reaction time, on above 700 mph, or even above that, right?

Well obviousl -- Jesus Christ....Are you sure it's not you who doesn't know what I'm trying to say?

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#157  Edited By Cerberus369616

@sheenlantern: @bat_girl_cc: Gotta say Sheen seems to be right.

The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit but only because you are high balling it. No where is it stated that the Quartz is bullet proof so we can't just assume it is. Quartz used in that fashion is generally very tough though so it is a good striking feat, it isn't like the relatively thing quartz containers in Sheen's video but we don't know how tough it is exactly so we can't quantify it as bullet proof just as tough. You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for.

As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. No one is gonna accept it as a feat. But if it is necessary to debunk it, there is a lot of missing time in it in which Cass could "and probably is" be moving before and while the shot is being fired. We see the person who shot pulling the gun out with right hand from his right pocket, then we see Cass standing, then we see the gun in the shooters left hand firing it forward, then we see Cass punching him. The time sheen is referring to is after the scene of Cass standing. We see the gun isn't in the shooters left hand in that panel. So he took the time in between panels to switch hands, take aim and then fire. None of which is shown and all of which is time that anyone could be moving. Now you posit that Cass isn't moving in that time. Sheen posits she is. Answer is. We don't know. But what we do know is that since we don't know what anyone is doing during that couple of seconds we can't use it it as a perfect feat. Even if we say that each motion only took him half a second a full second is enough time for any peak human to cover a little over 10 meter even in real life let alone the DC peak human. That is well over the distance that Cass covered. So while both versions of you guys interpretations could have happened based on the showings on the panel, one has Cass clocking in at , Peak Human, which she is stated to be. Another has Cass clocking in at over 700 mph ( a huge jump). You can decide which you agree with but it's kinda clear which most people are gonna choose :/

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Cage literally stomps her.

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@lone_wolf_and_cub: Why? She can hurt Cage via Pressure points as shown on two separate occasions and has the ability to stay one step ahead of him. Cage can be worn down by a competent martial artist and especialyl one that he probably won't be able to touch.

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#160  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@sheenlantern said:

@bat_girl_cc:

LOL!...Dude, stop, just stop!...this all started in the other thread, when i made the claim that Cassie could hurt Spider-Man, and that she hits harder than Both Batman and Cap...you didn't agree, then i posted scans, like the one, where Cassie breaks through 3-inch-quartz

Even though Cap and Bats have feats that eclipse that? Heck, remember that scan of Batman effortlessly breaking Mr. Freeze's provably bulletproof visor?

.you didn't agree, then i posted scans, like the one, where Cassie breaks through 3-inch-quartz, then i pointed out the obvious, by saying that the quartz was bullet proof,

You mean you made it up, weird how you feel the need to do that if the feat is as impressive as you're saying.

then you started lowballing the feat, by saying that there wasn't any proof that it was bullet proof (pretty ridiculous, if you ask me, since its obvious that it was,

If it's so obvious, why are you having such a hard time proving it?

you even used (a ridiculous exemple) of the quartz-made-countertops, to say that quartz wasn't bullet proof, and in my last post, i just proved that EVEN quartz-made-countertops are bullet proof!

When did you do that exactly? All I recall you doing is posting a PLR article using the word 'bullet-proof' as a simile.

and now, you're trying to donball quartz, as a material?...by posting some random video?...lol...what is that supposed to prove?...how do i know if the quartz being used on that video, wasn't the less durable type of quartz, there is?

Because we totally know that about the quartz in the comic, don't we? Get real, your argument sucks and you know it.

They appear in the scan that (once again) you conviniently forgot to post, this one:

Uh, I didn't forget to post it, I just didn't see the point of re-posting it for the millionth time when we both know what it looks like.

Third image, left side...i belive i've said this, at least, over 3 times in a row, now.

Yeah, newsflash buddy, the panel in the bottom right takes place after the one in the bottom left.

So, is this how its going to be?...you're basically keep replying to me, ignoring my post's, and the points adressed in them, and you only copy paste, and answer to what you like?...lol, i don't see how we're suppose to get anywhere debating like this...i mean, you bring up a point, i adress that point, and then you reply to me, while ignoring my previous answer...this way its impossible...

If you would kindly point out where these "guys" you are talking about are in this scan, I'd appreciate it.

No Caption Provided

Do you see what i mean?...i said it, like 3 or 4 times in a row, now...i'll say it again, Third image, left side...

The vault's door was opened in the second image...in the third image, left side, the door was already opened, and everyone, minus the guy that opened the vault's door, was freaking out, and pulling out guns...and in the fourth image, the one on the right side,we see one guy with his gun already in position, and there's Cassie standing there...in front of hem...as she was in the image before, and that's why those guys were freaking out, so, why didn't Cassie moved then?...you see, you ask why should she wait until the shooter fired the gun?...which happened in the scan that you posted before, which happens after the fourth image, where Cassie is standing still looking at the gun-men...why didn't she moved there?...heck, why didn't she moved even before that? in the the image before? the 3rd on the left side?...

Again, I'd have to ask you what the logic in gnawing and clawing trying to get out of the entrance of a vault that hasn't been fully opened yet with no knowledge on what's on the other side would be.

Also, you call this "In position"?

No Caption Provided

And wouldn't be equally strange, the fact that she could have actually have moved way before that, since she had the chance to do it, and since she is that fast?

Not really, for reasons stated above.

don't pretend, that you didn't understood what i was trying to say

I knew exactly what you were trying to say. I even gave a little summary.

No Caption Provided

, Cassie's speed, would still be enough to out-pace a bullet, since pulling a trigger is a no-time thing,

It takes a helluva lot longer to pull a trigger than for a bullet to travel through the air.

and by the time Cassie punched the shooter, the bullet was still half away from its target

Except we don't know where the target was because it wasn't in shot when the bullet was fired.

because, you do understand, that even if you're right regarding this feat (you aren't) that would still place Cassie's raw speed/ reaction time, on above 700 mph, or even above that, right?

Well obviousl -- Jesus Christ....Are you sure it's not you who doesn't know what I'm trying to say?

" Even though Cap and Bats have feats that eclipse that? "

Is that right?...name one!

" Heck, remember that scan of Batman effortlessly breaking Mr. Freeze's provably bulletproof visor? "

.............................................................are you serious?...you are comparing Cassie breaking through a 3-inc-quartz-made-window, designed to help secure a volt, to Batman effortlessy breaking a "probably" bullet proof visor?...LOL.

Try again...

" You mean you made it up, weird how you feel the need to do that if the feat is as impressive as you're saying. "

1) i did it, because you started downballing it.

2) What i said was obvious, and you know it.

" If it's so obvious, why are you having such a hard time proving it? "

Having?...what do you mean by "having"...i've already proved it! remember?...and thanks to you! actually...at first, when you pointed out, that it wasn't stated anywhere in the scans, that the quartz-window was indeed bullet-proof, my only argument, was pure logic...its' not bad a bad argument, but let's face it...facts > logic...but then, you decided to downball the quartz-feat even futher...(mocking it, almost)...by providing a lame exemple (your quartz-made-countertops)...and that's when you shooted your own foot...because, then i decided to do a little search on quartz-made-countertops, and...Voilà!...now we know, that even quartz-made-countertops, are bullet proof!...and if even quartz-made-countertops are bullet proof, just imagine how durable must be, a quartz-window (3-inches of it) designed to help secure a vault!...so basically, you spared me the trouble of killing your argument, by killing it yourself!...lol...and for that, thank you very much!

" When did you do that exactly? All I recall you doing is posting a PLR article using the word 'bullet-proof' as a simile. "

Oh!...you didn't like that article?...i can always thind more:

Proof 1: http://www.solidstoneconcrete.com/products.html

The part that matters in that site: " Engineered stone/quartz brings kitchen ideas to life with modern looks as well as classic colour palettes. Brands like Caesarstone®, Silestone® , and Hanstone® are just few of the leading manufacturers. This stone is heralded as being the most stain resistant and bullet proof material countertops can be made of. "

Proof 2: http://www.cadenzagranite.com/products/granite

The part that matters in that site: " Granite, one of the hardest natural materials known to man, is composed primarily of quartz, feldspar and mica. The stone is quarried in large blocks which are then cut into slabs and polished. Granite is being used for all sort of building applications. Its bullet-proof characteristics coupled with incredible natural beauty make it a wonderful choice for a host of residential applications. Granite is an igneous rock, meaning that it was once molten magma. Millions of years of time coupled with the earth's pressure has resulted in a wide variety of colors, textures and unique crystal patterns all breathtaking pieces of natural beauty.

Over the past ten years, diamond tooling has evolved tremendously bringing the costs to fabricate granite down dramatically. This has made granite much more affordable to the homeowner and thus its popularity has increased proportionally.

Granite Countertops

Unquestionably the most durable and maintenance-free product you could choose for your Kitchen Countertops. Granite countertops are resistant to heat, scratching and, when treated with quality impregnating sealers, stain-free. In other words, virtually indestructible. Put simply, Granite Counter tops installed today will look just as magnificent 40 years from now. "

I think its enough, don't you agree?...In a debate, you or the other person brings up points to the debate, and then, you and the other person, adress them...and that's what we did...you brought up a point, i've adressed it, and you've been proved wrong...it happens...GET OVER IT!

* moving on *

" Again, I'd have to ask you what the logic in gnawing and clawing trying to get out of the entrance of a vault that hasn't been fully opened yet with no knowledge on what's on the other side would be. "

?...lol, and you say, that i'm the one, that makes stuff up out of thin air...what you said above is all assumption!...and a bad one...whatch the scan again...the armed gun-men, are cleary looking at Cassie, if not, why would they be freaking out?...and if they could see her, then, its only logic to assume that she could see them, as well.

" Also, you call this "In position"? "

Lol, don't get petty.

" Not really, for reasons stated above. "

Already adressed, above.

" It takes a helluva lot longer to pull a trigger than for a bullet to travel through the air. "

I'm aware...i just pointed out the fact that, even you were right, regarding the bullet-feat (you aren't) it would still be very impressive.

" Except we don't know where the target was because it wasn't in shot when the bullet was fired. "

You're focusing your argument on the wrong scan...because, i know what you're saying, and i've already adressed it...i suggest you re-read my last post.

" Well obviousl -- Jesus Christ....Are you sure it's not you who doesn't know what I'm trying to say? "

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that its the other way around.

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@sheenlantern: @bat_girl_cc: Gotta say Sheen seems to be right.

The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit but only because you are high balling it. No where is it stated that the Quartz is bullet proof so we can't just assume it is. Quartz used in that fashion is generally very tough though so it is a good striking feat, it isn't like the relatively thing quartz containers in Sheen's video but we don't know how tough it is exactly so we can't quantify it as bullet proof just as tough. You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for.

As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. No one is gonna accept it as a feat. But if it is necessary to debunk it, there is a lot of missing time in it in which Cass could "and probably is" be moving before and while the shot is being fired. We see the person who shot pulling the gun out with right hand from his right pocket, then we see Cass standing, then we see the gun in the shooters left hand firing it forward, then we see Cass punching him. The time sheen is referring to is after the scene of Cass standing. We see the gun isn't in the shooters left hand in that panel. So he took the time in between panels to switch hands, take aim and then fire. None of which is shown and all of which is time that anyone could be moving. Now you posit that Cass isn't moving in that time. Sheen posits she is. Answer is. We don't know. But what we do know is that since we don't know what anyone is doing during that couple of seconds we can't use it it as a perfect feat. Even if we say that each motion only took him half a second a full second is enough time for any peak human to cover a little over 10 meter even in real life let alone the DC peak human. That is well over the distance that Cass covered. So while both versions of you guys interpretations could have happened based on the showings on the panel, one has Cass clocking in at , Peak Human, which she is stated to be. Another has Cass clocking in at over 700 mph ( a huge jump). You can decide which you agree with but it's kinda clear which most people are gonna choose :/

" Gotta say Sheen seems to be right "

How so?

" The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit "

Just a bit?

" but only because you are high balling it. "

How did a high ballit?...i just name the feat, and then posted a scan proving it!...apart from that, i only said that it was bullet-proof, which its obvious...how does saying an obvious thing, equals, highballing a feat?

" You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) "

I did it on the same thread that both me and @sheenlantern started debating this...and if i remember correctly, some users labeled them as PIS/WIS...besides, if @sheenlantern felt the need of downballing the quartz feat, there's no reason to get any higher...

" instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for. "

But the thing is, i've already proved it!...i proved that quartz its so resistant, that even quartz-made-contertops (sheen's own exemple) can sustain bullets!...now, just imagine, how resistant was that 3-inch-quartz-window that Cassie broke through was...besides, if you go back in this thread, until our first post's, you'll see that it was Sheen that brought up the quartz feat in the first place, anyway...

" As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. "

Ok, i'll admit that the writter, maybe got a little ahead of himself there...but still, Cassie is the DC street-leveler that does speed crazy stuff more often that i know of...(besides Batman of course, and even Batman doesn't have as many bullet dodging feats, as Cassie has...)...so seing her performing it, makes me acknowledge it as an high-end-feat.

As for the rest of your post, i mostly agree with your points, and as far as people deciding which "version" belive in, well, my job is to prove my own points, the rest, its really out of my hands...let the people belive on what they will.

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DarthAznable

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#162  Edited By DarthAznable

Lmao the heat here. I still think Luke should win. Pressure points or not.

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Cerberus369616

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@cerberus369616 said:

@sheenlantern: @bat_girl_cc: Gotta say Sheen seems to be right.

The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit but only because you are high balling it. No where is it stated that the Quartz is bullet proof so we can't just assume it is. Quartz used in that fashion is generally very tough though so it is a good striking feat, it isn't like the relatively thing quartz containers in Sheen's video but we don't know how tough it is exactly so we can't quantify it as bullet proof just as tough. You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for.

As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. No one is gonna accept it as a feat. But if it is necessary to debunk it, there is a lot of missing time in it in which Cass could "and probably is" be moving before and while the shot is being fired. We see the person who shot pulling the gun out with right hand from his right pocket, then we see Cass standing, then we see the gun in the shooters left hand firing it forward, then we see Cass punching him. The time sheen is referring to is after the scene of Cass standing. We see the gun isn't in the shooters left hand in that panel. So he took the time in between panels to switch hands, take aim and then fire. None of which is shown and all of which is time that anyone could be moving. Now you posit that Cass isn't moving in that time. Sheen posits she is. Answer is. We don't know. But what we do know is that since we don't know what anyone is doing during that couple of seconds we can't use it it as a perfect feat. Even if we say that each motion only took him half a second a full second is enough time for any peak human to cover a little over 10 meter even in real life let alone the DC peak human. That is well over the distance that Cass covered. So while both versions of you guys interpretations could have happened based on the showings on the panel, one has Cass clocking in at , Peak Human, which she is stated to be. Another has Cass clocking in at over 700 mph ( a huge jump). You can decide which you agree with but it's kinda clear which most people are gonna choose :/

" Gotta say Sheen seems to be right "

How so?

Because of the rest of my post....

" The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit "

Just a bit?

Yea, just a bit...

" but only because you are high balling it. "

How did a high ballit?...i just name the feat, and then posted a scan proving it!...apart from that, i only said that it was bullet-proof, which its obvious...how does saying an obvious thing, equals, highballing a feat?

You didn't say anything obvious. Yes it is 3 inches thick, yes it is quartz. Maybe it is Bulletproof, maybe it isn't. By your own admission there are different types of quartz. Some shatter easily like the kind Sheen showed. Some Are resistant. Quartz being a crystal is actually prone to shattering due to it's rigid structure, but can be very hard. hard enough to take a bullet, sometimes yes. Was that specific Quartz hard enough to take a bullet? We don't know and never will because it didn't say, but you ASSUMED it was the best kind of quartz for striking it could be. By definition that is High Balling it.

" You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) "

I did it on the same thread that both me and @sheenlantern started debating this...and if i remember correctly, some users labeled them as PIS/WIS...besides, if @sheenlantern felt the need of downballing the quartz feat, there's no reason to get any higher...

Then stick to those instead of arguing one that is so debatable, unless those are even mroe debatable and if that is the case your character may not have the striking power you claim.

" instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for. "

But the thing is, i've already proved it!...i proved that quartz its so resistant, that even quartz-made-contertops (sheen's own exemple) can sustain bullets!...now, just imagine, how resistant was that 3-inch-quartz-window that Cassie broke through was...besides, if you go back in this thread, until our first post's, you'll see that it was Sheen that brought up the quartz feat in the first place, anyway...

You proves some quartz is resistant, not all quartz and therefor not that quartz that Cass broke.

" As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. "

Ok, i'll admit that the writter, maybe got a little ahead of himself there...but still, Cassie is the DC street-leveler that does speed crazy stuff more often that i know of...(besides Batman of course, and even Batman doesn't have as many bullet dodging feats, as Cassie has...)...so seing her performing it, makes me acknowledge it as an high-end-feat.

So your argument is that the writer may have exaggerated it but because Cass has performed other feats that are of a far lesser extent than what you claim and because the writer that you admit may have exaggerated put it in a book that you believe it. That is circular logic at best.

As for the rest of your post, i mostly agree with your points, and as far as people deciding which "version" belive in, well, my job is to prove my own points, the rest, its really out of my hands...let the people belive on what they will.

The problem is that one version matches up with her stats and another version doesn't. The one that matches with her on paper stats wins every time. You aren't proving a point, your being stubborn.

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NeoTitanX

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#164  Edited By NeoTitanX

I'll break it down like this - real world - human style.

Ronda Rousey - Cassandra Cain

Luke Cage - Bobby Lashley

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Now as good as Ronda is, there is no way that she is beating a heavyweight - period. There is no way that she is going to beat most men that have say 50 lbs on her. Training seems to be whats most important. Cassandra Cain - she's got the training hands down. Any of the women MMA fighters could easily win a bar fight. Trained kicks have devastating power no matter what gender you are.

Equal training? The woman would lose every time. Match up the best women's champion MMA fighter against any of the male MMA guys. It wouldn't take long for her to get badly hurt. Cage is a self-taught hand-to-hand combatant with years of street fighting experience. He also says he has had extensive training with Iron Fist who is no slouch in the hand to hand. Luke Cage's skin is as hard as titanium steel and his muscle and bone tissues are considerably denser than the tissues of an ordinary human, granting him much greater resistance to physical injury than an ordinary human. He can withstand conventional handgun fire at a range of 4 feet and cannot be cut by any blade forged of conventional material - she may get her licks in, but she's not hurting him. Squirrel Girl YES, Bat-Girl - negative.

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Cerberus369616

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I'll break it down like this - real world - human style.

Ronda Rousey - Cassandra Cain

Luke Cage - Bobby Lashley

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No Caption Provided

Now as good as Ronda is, there is no way that she is beating a heavyweight - period. There is no way that she is going to beat most men that have say 50 lbs on her. Training seems to be whats most important. Cassandra Cain - she's got the training hands down. Any of the women MMA fighters could easily win a bar fight. Trained kicks have devastating power no matter what gender you are.

Equal training? The woman would lose every time. Match up the best women's champion MMA fighter against any of the male MMA guys. It wouldn't take long for her to get badly hurt. Cage is a self-taught hand-to-hand combatant with years of street fighting experience. He also says he has had extensive training with Iron Fist who is no slouch in the hand to hand. Luke Cage's skin is as hard as titanium steel and his muscle and bone tissues are considerably denser than the tissues of an ordinary human, granting him much greater resistance to physical injury than an ordinary human. He can withstand conventional handgun fire at a range of 4 feet and cannot be cut by any blade forged of conventional material - she may get her licks in, but she's not hurting him. Squirrel Girl YES, Bat-Girl - negative.

Your post fails to take into account that Cass has the potential to drop him via pressure points. While in real life a pressure point may not work like they do in comics, they happen work like they do in comics and that is to say they can drop people that are for all intents and purposes invulnerable. It's not just Luke Cage getting dropped by a random no namer and Black Panther as seen on the first couple of pages, Dare Devil has also dropped multi- dozen tonners like Luke. Luke isn't a random brawler but Batgirl absolutely eclipses him with her skill. Then toss in Body Reading and Luke cage is basically a really dangerous punching bag. If Batgirl didn't have pressure points or pressure points didn't work on Luke your analogy would be fair enough, but sadly she does and they do.

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Wow, 4 pages in and not even one pro-Luke Cage scan has been posted

I think there are more Black Panther and Lady Shiva feats in this thread than Luke Cage LOL

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#167  Edited By NeoTitanX
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Here are some feats. Cage has beaten Venom, Goblin and Sabretooth. If Cage can beat Sabretooth, he's beating Bat-Girl. Unless you are staying that Bat-Girl can beat Cage? If Cage get's one lick in - it's over. All he needs is one. Cage can take a ton of damage - Cain can't beat Cage, she can, but she won't.

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#168  Edited By Juggy313

Really? Are u guys serious? Batgirl? Do you people not read current comics? Cage literally just stalemated Proximal Midnight(Thanos' strongest general). This is the same lady who made quick work of hulk and Hyperion at the same damn time. She was extremely frustrated at the fact that she couldn't put him down. There punches caused Earth quakes and buildings to shatter. Yet some of u honestly believes a freaking. Human stands a chance??? Wow... Stop using a character's worst showing(that wasn't even canon) to justify a ridiculous victory for your favorite character.

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Oh he also knocked out the freaking she Hulk in AoU with one punch. This punch also caused buildings to shatter and cars to go flying. Current Cage is a tank.

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@juggy313 said:

Oh he also knocked out the freaking she Hulk in AoU with one punch. This punch also caused buildings to shatter and cars to go flying. Current Cage is a tank.

That entire event was PIS. Nobody uses that book to make a point.

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Lmao the heat here. I still think Luke should win. Pressure points or not.

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I don't really see Cage hitting Cass any time soon, and when she realizes her attacks aren't doing any effects, she will probably go for pressure points which after repeated strikes, I'm sure it will prove effective.

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#173  Edited By Stormdriven

Has Cassandra used pressure points before? I honestly am curious. Can anyone provide scans if she has?

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#174  Edited By jashro44

@juggy313 said:

Really? Are u guys serious? Batgirl? Do you people not read current comics? Cage literally just stalemated Proximal Midnight(Thanos' strongest general). This is the same lady who made quick work of hulk and Hyperion at the same damn time. She was extremely frustrated at the fact that she couldn't put him down. There punches caused Earth quakes and buildings to shatter. Yet some of u honestly believes a freaking. Human stands a chance??? Wow... Stop using a character's worst showing(that wasn't even canon) to justify a ridiculous victory for your favorite character.

There punches weren't what caused the seismic activity. It was because of shuma gorath:

No Caption Provided

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#175  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@cerberus369616 said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@cerberus369616 said:

@sheenlantern: @bat_girl_cc: Gotta say Sheen seems to be right.

The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit but only because you are high balling it. No where is it stated that the Quartz is bullet proof so we can't just assume it is. Quartz used in that fashion is generally very tough though so it is a good striking feat, it isn't like the relatively thing quartz containers in Sheen's video but we don't know how tough it is exactly so we can't quantify it as bullet proof just as tough. You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for.

As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. No one is gonna accept it as a feat. But if it is necessary to debunk it, there is a lot of missing time in it in which Cass could "and probably is" be moving before and while the shot is being fired. We see the person who shot pulling the gun out with right hand from his right pocket, then we see Cass standing, then we see the gun in the shooters left hand firing it forward, then we see Cass punching him. The time sheen is referring to is after the scene of Cass standing. We see the gun isn't in the shooters left hand in that panel. So he took the time in between panels to switch hands, take aim and then fire. None of which is shown and all of which is time that anyone could be moving. Now you posit that Cass isn't moving in that time. Sheen posits she is. Answer is. We don't know. But what we do know is that since we don't know what anyone is doing during that couple of seconds we can't use it it as a perfect feat. Even if we say that each motion only took him half a second a full second is enough time for any peak human to cover a little over 10 meter even in real life let alone the DC peak human. That is well over the distance that Cass covered. So while both versions of you guys interpretations could have happened based on the showings on the panel, one has Cass clocking in at , Peak Human, which she is stated to be. Another has Cass clocking in at over 700 mph ( a huge jump). You can decide which you agree with but it's kinda clear which most people are gonna choose :/

" Gotta say Sheen seems to be right "

How so?

Because of the rest of my post....

" The breaking Quartz thing, I would say he is low balling it a little bit "

Just a bit?

Yea, just a bit...

" but only because you are high balling it. "

How did a high ballit?...i just name the feat, and then posted a scan proving it!...apart from that, i only said that it was bullet-proof, which its obvious...how does saying an obvious thing, equals, highballing a feat?

You didn't say anything obvious. Yes it is 3 inches thick, yes it is quartz. Maybe it is Bulletproof, maybe it isn't. By your own admission there are different types of quartz. Some shatter easily like the kind Sheen showed. Some Are resistant. Quartz being a crystal is actually prone to shattering due to it's rigid structure, but can be very hard. hard enough to take a bullet, sometimes yes. Was that specific Quartz hard enough to take a bullet? We don't know and never will because it didn't say, but you ASSUMED it was the best kind of quartz for striking it could be. By definition that is High Balling it.

" You'd be better off using some of her other striking feats (a lot of which are arguably better) "

I did it on the same thread that both me and @sheenlantern started debating this...and if i remember correctly, some users labeled them as PIS/WIS...besides, if @sheenlantern felt the need of downballing the quartz feat, there's no reason to get any higher...

Then stick to those instead of arguing one that is so debatable, unless those are even mroe debatable and if that is the case your character may not have the striking power you claim.

" instead of focusing on filling up this thread arguing over a single one that you clearly aren't gonna find any proof for. "

But the thing is, i've already proved it!...i proved that quartz its so resistant, that even quartz-made-contertops (sheen's own exemple) can sustain bullets!...now, just imagine, how resistant was that 3-inch-quartz-window that Cassie broke through was...besides, if you go back in this thread, until our first post's, you'll see that it was Sheen that brought up the quartz feat in the first place, anyway...

You proves some quartz is resistant, not all quartz and therefor not that quartz that Cass broke.

" As for the bullet scan, I'm normally content to call it WiS because be real bat_girl_cc, it's not a high end feat. It's not really a feat that anyone would even bother arguing with because it is clearly WiS. "

Ok, i'll admit that the writter, maybe got a little ahead of himself there...but still, Cassie is the DC street-leveler that does speed crazy stuff more often that i know of...(besides Batman of course, and even Batman doesn't have as many bullet dodging feats, as Cassie has...)...so seing her performing it, makes me acknowledge it as an high-end-feat.

So your argument is that the writer may have exaggerated it but because Cass has performed other feats that are of a far lesser extent than what you claim and because the writer that you admit may have exaggerated put it in a book that you believe it. That is circular logic at best.

As for the rest of your post, i mostly agree with your points, and as far as people deciding which "version" belive in, well, my job is to prove my own points, the rest, its really out of my hands...let the people belive on what they will.

The problem is that one version matches up with her stats and another version doesn't. The one that matches with her on paper stats wins every time. You aren't proving a point, your being stubborn.

" Then stick to those instead of arguing one that is so debatable, unless those are even mroe debatable and if that is the case your character may not have the striking power you claim."

You didn't understood what i meant...if some users felt the need to downball the quartz feat, then why post even better feats?...i mean, if they said something like: "Oh! that's very impressive, but not enough..."...but that's not what happened!...they felt the need to downball it! which tells me, that there was no need to name/post better feats.

Besides, if i remember correctly, i pointed out the reason why i didn't do it, in that thread...it's because, if i did it, they would just downball them too...why post proof to someone that doesn't want to see proof?...only downball it?...at some point, i got facepalmed, at some of the responses.

" You proves some quartz is resistant, not all quartz and therefor not that quartz that Cass broke. "

Lol, this seems exactly, like something that Sheen would say...so you think that a quartz-made-countertop can be more durable, than a 3-inch-quartz window, designed to help secure a vault?...really?...if so, i don't see the point of we keep debating the quartz feat...because...well...your response tells me that, well...you got the point.

" So your argument is that the writer may have exaggerated it but because Cass has performed other feats that are of a far lesser extent than what you claim and because the writer that you admit may have exaggerated put it in a book that you believe it. That is circular logic at best. "

I'll explain what i meant in a different way...let's say that Green Arrow was the one that did it...or Nightwing, or Red Hood, or Batwing, or Red Arrow, or Talon, or Strix, or Black Canary...i'll cal it PIS right away...because they don't have the feats to back up a feat like that...its completly ilogical to think that any of them could've done it...but Cass?...i mean, one thing is performing "aim dodging"...which is impressive, but let's face it, anyone with some skill + decent training + the reflexes of an athletic, can perform feats like that...but bullet dodging is another thing alltogether, even if we use DC + Marvel Universes, theres only an handfull of peak-humans who can do it...and Cassie has done soooooo many times, and almost effortlessy...(i could be here hours posting all of her bullet dodging feats)...plus, she speed-blitzes opponents regularly, also move to fast to be seen, etc etc...The point is: Cassie out-pacing its incredible, almost ilogical, but possible, or at least understandable...any other peak-human doing it, (besides Constantine Drakon)...would be ridiculous!...fact is, Cassie has "a record" that gives a writter room to do some crazyness with her, when it comes to speed...the same can't be said, for most peak-humans tho...so i could understand your reaction, if that feat had been performed by any peak-human (besides Drakon, of course)...but Cassie?...no dude...in Cassie's case, i tend to have an open mind, when it comes to crazy-speed-stuff...otherwise, i would have to "ignore" most if not all of her feats/good showings...

" The problem is that one version matches up with her stats and another version doesn't. The one that matches with her on paper stats wins every time. "

Nope, feats > everything-else...and most of what Cassie does can't be matched by almost no other peak-human...peope just accept it, because its consistent...so in order to "discount" this feat, due to stats-impossibillity...we would have to "discount" everything-else too.

"You aren't proving a point, your being stubborn. "

It may look like it, but haven't said one single thing, that i don't belive in...if like sheen, you think i'm just trying to make Cassie look better than what she is, you're wrong, first of all, on this thread, i haven't named and backed up, one single feat, that Cassie hasn't done it consistently...the only one, its the bullet out pacing feat, which i already explained.

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#176  Edited By daredevil21134

@juggy313 said:

Really? Are u guys serious? Batgirl? Do you people not read current comics? Cage literally just stalemated Proximal Midnight(Thanos' strongest general). This is the same lady who made quick work of hulk and Hyperion at the same damn time. She was extremely frustrated at the fact that she couldn't put him down. There punches caused Earth quakes and buildings to shatter. Yet some of u honestly believes a freaking. Human stands a chance??? Wow... Stop using a character's worst showing(that wasn't even canon) to justify a ridiculous victory for your favorite character.

QFT

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Has Cassandra used pressure points before? I honestly am curious. Can anyone provide scans if she has?

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#178  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@stormdriven said:

@stormdriven said:

Has Cassandra used pressure points before? I honestly am curious. Can anyone provide scans if she has?

I can't post scans at the moment but Cass has used pressure points/nerve strikes just off the top of my head to paralyze Babs and Shiva. She has also used them against random no-names in a few situations.

She has also shown the ability to stop a guys heart with a strike.

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@bat_girl_cc:

" Then stick to those instead of arguing one that is so debatable, unless those are even mroe debatable and if that is the case your character may not have the striking power you claim."

You didn't understood what i meant...if some users felt the need to downball the quartz feat, then why post even better feats?...i mean, if they said something like: "Oh! that's very impressive, but not enough..."...but that's not what happened!...they felt the need to downball it! which tells me, that there was no need to name/post better feats.

Besides, if i remember correctly, i pointed out the reason why i didn't do it, in that thread...it's because, if i did it, they would just downball them too...why post proof to someone that doesn't want to see proof?...only downball it?...at some point, i got facepalmed, at some of the responses.

The point of feats is that that CAN'T be downballed or misconstrued. If her feats are so easy to dismiss or downplay then they aren't good feats to begin with. Hulk planet busting can't really be downsized, you can play with the numbers or the shape he was in afterwards or anynumber of things but at the end of the day he busted a planet. To be concerned that someone is or can downball your feat defeats the purpose of even having them. Why debate at all if your afraid someone is gonna debate back?

" You proves some quartz is resistant, not all quartz and therefor not that quartz that Cass broke. "

Lol, this seems exactly, like something that Sheen would say...so you think that a quartz-made-countertop can be more durable, than a 3-inch-quartz window, designed to help secure a vault?...really?...if so, i don't see the point of we keep debating the quartz feat...because...well...your response tells me that, well...you got the point.

I didn't say that the feat isn't impressive. She broke quartz glass clearly designed with it's durability in mind. The problem isn't you using the feat. It's you claiming aspects of the feat to highball it. Saying the glass is bulletproof when we in fact have no idea if it is or isn't is highballing the feat. Just say "Cass breaks 3 inches of Quartz Glass designed to be used in a Bank Vault." It both conveys high striking power and doesn't use any lies to make it seem better than it may or may not be.

" So your argument is that the writer may have exaggerated it but because Cass has performed other feats that are of a far lesser extent than what you claim and because the writer that you admit may have exaggerated put it in a book that you believe it. That is circular logic at best. "

I'll explain what i meant in a different way...let's say that Green Arrow was the one that did it...or Nightwing, or Red Hood, or Batwing, or Red Arrow, or Talon, or Strix, or Black Canary...i'll cal it PIS right away...because they don't have the feats to back up a feat like that...its completly ilogical to think that any of them could've done it...but Cass?...i mean, one thing is performing "aim dodging"...which is impressive, but let's face it, anyone with some skill + decent training + the reflexes of an athletic, can perform feats like that...but bullet dodging is another thing alltogether, even if we use DC + Marvel Universes, theres only an handfull of peak-humans who can do it...and Cassie has done soooooo many times, and almost effortlessy...(i could be here hours posting all of her bullet dodging feats)...plus, she's know to speed-Blitz opponents regularly, also move to fast to be seen, etc etc...The point is: Cassie out-pacing its incredible, almost ilogical, but possible, or at least understandable...any other peak-human doing it, (besides Constantine Drakon)...would be ridiculous!...fact is, Cassie has "a record" that gives a writter room to do some crazyness with her, when it comes to speed...the same can't be said, for most peak-humans tho...so i could understand your reaction, if that feat had been performed by any peak-human (besides Drakon, of course)...but Cassie?...no dude...in Cassie's case, i tend to have an open mind, when it comes to crazy-speed-stuff...otherwise, i would have to "ignore" most if not all of her feats/good showings...

The thing is. She doesn't have the feat showing to suggest she is supersonic, which is what you are claiming. Even moving out of the way of a bullet doesn't require supersonic speeds. Show me any single other feat that has her moving at supersonic speeds. A single one. She doesn't have them. If she doesn't have feats on the SAME level, we aren't talking close, we are talking SAME level then it is a WiS showing and if it is WiS it can't be used. At no point does she move at Supersonic speeds. Not when fighting Slade, or Batman or any opponent. But all of a sudden for ONE fight, in ONE Scene, with ONE random gunman who literally only last long enough to shoot a bullet and get punched you expect it to be Canon that she can move supersonic. Answer me one question. Do you honestly believe that Cassandra Cain is supersonic? Because her outpacing a bullet and being supersonic are one in the same. And if you do find me at least one other scan where she is running faster than a bullet.

" The problem is that one version matches up with her stats and another version doesn't. The one that matches with her on paper stats wins every time. "

Nope, feats > everything-else...and most of what Cassie does can't be matched by almost no other peak-human...peope just accept it, because its consistent...so in order to "discount" this feat, due to stats-impossibillity...we would have to "discount" everything-else too.

She is consistent in her ability to coordinate her body to do things other humans cannot. Yes. That doesn't mean we give her pass to be able to do whatever ONE writer writes her as doing. And if pressed Feats>Stats, yes, but that doesn't mean we disregard stats. The feats should still be inline with the on paper stats. If Superman barely keeps up in a Speedster battle involving Flash one day we take it as a high end feat because it is within the scope of Superman's abilities even though stats say he shouldn't be able to keep up in a full tilt speedster battle. But if One day Supes absolutely destroys Flash and ZOOM at the same time with pure speed, we don't take it as meaning Superman is faster than the Flash now. It means it's PiS or WiS.

"You aren't proving a point, your being stubborn. "

It may look like it, but haven't said one single thing, that i don't belive in...if like sheen, you think i'm just trying to make Cassie look better than what she is, you're wrong, first of all, on this thread, i haven't named and backed up, one single feat, that Cassie hasn't done it consistently...the only one, its the bullet out pacing feat, which i already explained.

A lot of people adamantly BELIEVED the Sun revolved around the Earth. Doesn't make them any less wrong or stubborn. I'm sure you really do believe that Cass is faster than bullets. But , essentially by you own admission, your wrong. You've already said the writer was probably getting ahead of himself which indicates WiS and you just now said she hasn't consistently outpaced bullets with consistency being one of the main attributes of a Feat to begin with. Your explanation is basically "Cass does cool things all the time so I accept every cool thing she does" and if that is your argument Batman does cool things so I guess he can kick the Specter and is Abstract Tier. Spiderman does a lot of hard to believe cool things so I guess he can down punch out Firelord and is Herald Tier.

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#180  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@stormdriven said:

@stormdriven said:

Has Cassandra used pressure points before? I honestly am curious. Can anyone provide scans if she has?

Yes, she has...many times, as for the scans:

Using them on a Shappeshifter:

No Caption Provided

Using them on Shrike:

No Caption Provided

Using them on The Joker:

No Caption Provided
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Cassie knows full well, how to hit, and where to hit.

Here, she "friendly" uses a nerve strike on Steph:

No Caption Provided
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Another situation:

No Caption Provided

There are so many...theres mentions of it during her fights against Shiva, and more, much more.

* Edit *

there's also this, which i remembered, but it toke me a few time to found the scans:

No Caption Provided
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" Then stick to those instead of arguing one that is so debatable, unless those are even mroe debatable and if that is the case your character may not have the striking power you claim."

You didn't understood what i meant...if some users felt the need to downball the quartz feat, then why post even better feats?...i mean, if they said something like: "Oh! that's very impressive, but not enough..."...but that's not what happened!...they felt the need to downball it! which tells me, that there was no need to name/post better feats.

Besides, if i remember correctly, i pointed out the reason why i didn't do it, in that thread...it's because, if i did it, they would just downball them too...why post proof to someone that doesn't want to see proof?...only downball it?...at some point, i got facepalmed, at some of the responses.

The point of feats is that that CAN'T be downballed or misconstrued. If her feats are so easy to dismiss or downplay then they aren't good feats to begin with. Hulk planet busting can't really be downsized, you can play with the numbers or the shape he was in afterwards or anynumber of things but at the end of the day he busted a planet. To be concerned that someone is or can downball your feat defeats the purpose of even having them. Why debate at all if your afraid someone is gonna debate back?

" You proves some quartz is resistant, not all quartz and therefor not that quartz that Cass broke. "

Lol, this seems exactly, like something that Sheen would say...so you think that a quartz-made-countertop can be more durable, than a 3-inch-quartz window, designed to help secure a vault?...really?...if so, i don't see the point of we keep debating the quartz feat...because...well...your response tells me that, well...you got the point.

I didn't say that the feat isn't impressive. She broke quartz glass clearly designed with it's durability in mind. The problem isn't you using the feat. It's you claiming aspects of the feat to highball it. Saying the glass is bulletproof when we in fact have no idea if it is or isn't is highballing the feat. Just say "Cass breaks 3 inches of Quartz Glass designed to be used in a Bank Vault." It both conveys high striking power and doesn't use any lies to make it seem better than it may or may not be.

" So your argument is that the writer may have exaggerated it but because Cass has performed other feats that are of a far lesser extent than what you claim and because the writer that you admit may have exaggerated put it in a book that you believe it. That is circular logic at best. "

I'll explain what i meant in a different way...let's say that Green Arrow was the one that did it...or Nightwing, or Red Hood, or Batwing, or Red Arrow, or Talon, or Strix, or Black Canary...i'll cal it PIS right away...because they don't have the feats to back up a feat like that...its completly ilogical to think that any of them could've done it...but Cass?...i mean, one thing is performing "aim dodging"...which is impressive, but let's face it, anyone with some skill + decent training + the reflexes of an athletic, can perform feats like that...but bullet dodging is another thing alltogether, even if we use DC + Marvel Universes, theres only an handfull of peak-humans who can do it...and Cassie has done soooooo many times, and almost effortlessy...(i could be here hours posting all of her bullet dodging feats)...plus, she's know to speed-Blitz opponents regularly, also move to fast to be seen, etc etc...The point is: Cassie out-pacing its incredible, almost ilogical, but possible, or at least understandable...any other peak-human doing it, (besides Constantine Drakon)...would be ridiculous!...fact is, Cassie has "a record" that gives a writter room to do some crazyness with her, when it comes to speed...the same can't be said, for most peak-humans tho...so i could understand your reaction, if that feat had been performed by any peak-human (besides Drakon, of course)...but Cassie?...no dude...in Cassie's case, i tend to have an open mind, when it comes to crazy-speed-stuff...otherwise, i would have to "ignore" most if not all of her feats/good showings...

The thing is. She doesn't have the feat showing to suggest she is supersonic, which is what you are claiming. Even moving out of the way of a bullet doesn't require supersonic speeds. Show me any single other feat that has her moving at supersonic speeds. A single one. She doesn't have them. If she doesn't have feats on the SAME level, we aren't talking close, we are talking SAME level then it is a WiS showing and if it is WiS it can't be used. At no point does she move at Supersonic speeds. Not when fighting Slade, or Batman or any opponent. But all of a sudden for ONE fight, in ONE Scene, with ONE random gunman who literally only last long enough to shoot a bullet and get punched you expect it to be Canon that she can move supersonic. Answer me one question. Do you honestly believe that Cassandra Cain is supersonic? Because her outpacing a bullet and being supersonic are one in the same. And if you do find me at least one other scan where she is running faster than a bullet.

" The problem is that one version matches up with her stats and another version doesn't. The one that matches with her on paper stats wins every time. "

Nope, feats > everything-else...and most of what Cassie does can't be matched by almost no other peak-human...peope just accept it, because its consistent...so in order to "discount" this feat, due to stats-impossibillity...we would have to "discount" everything-else too.

She is consistent in her ability to coordinate her body to do things other humans cannot. Yes. That doesn't mean we give her pass to be able to do whatever ONE writer writes her as doing. And if pressed Feats>Stats, yes, but that doesn't mean we disregard stats. The feats should still be inline with the on paper stats. If Superman barely keeps up in a Speedster battle involving Flash one day we take it as a high end feat because it is within the scope of Superman's abilities even though stats say he shouldn't be able to keep up in a full tilt speedster battle. But if One day Supes absolutely destroys Flash and ZOOM at the same time with pure speed, we don't take it as meaning Superman is faster than the Flash now. It means it's PiS or WiS.

"You aren't proving a point, your being stubborn. "

It may look like it, but haven't said one single thing, that i don't belive in...if like sheen, you think i'm just trying to make Cassie look better than what she is, you're wrong, first of all, on this thread, i haven't named and backed up, one single feat, that Cassie hasn't done it consistently...the only one, its the bullet out pacing feat, which i already explained.

A lot of people adamantly BELIEVED the Sun revolved around the Earth. Doesn't make them any less wrong or stubborn. I'm sure you really do believe that Cass is faster than bullets. But , essentially by you own admission, your wrong. You've already said the writer was probably getting ahead of himself which indicates WiS and you just now said she hasn't consistently outpaced bullets with consistency being one of the main attributes of a Feat to begin with. Your explanation is basically "Cass does cool things all the time so I accept every cool thing she does" and if that is your argument Batman does cool things so I guess he can kick the Specter and is Abstract Tier. Spiderman does a lot of hard to believe cool things so I guess he can down punch out Firelord and is Herald Tier.

" The point of feats is that that CAN'T be downballed or misconstrued."

Exactly!...thanks for helping me on this one!...this is one of the main points i adressed...now imagine me, naming feats, posting scans as proof, and still, seeing Sheen trying to downball them...you can debate almost everything!...but you can't change what happens on panel!...and that's what scans are used for...sure, if something happens off-panel, you can work around it...but that's not what happens on any scan that i've posted!...in the quartz feat, Cassie broke through it, and there was a guy saying that it was 3-inch-quartz of it!...in the bullet feat, Cassie wasn't moving by the time the shooter pulled the trigger!...there's literally no evidence, whatsoever, that she was...it's all speculation!...did we see Cassie already moving by the time the shooter pulled the trigger?...NO, WE DON'T!...what we see, is Cassie being even frther away from the shooter, than she shooter was from the target...the he pulles the trigger, and in the next scan, we see Cassie punching him in the face, while the bullet was still more than half away from where Cassie was!...if anything, it could be argued if Cassie doubled the bullets speed, or not.

" If her feats are so easy to dismiss or downplay then they aren't good feats to begin with. "

When has any of her feats been dismissed?...i've seen some people trying to dismisse them, some of them even tryed to "change the scan"...by talking about stuff that doesn't appear anywhere in the scans...while, you at least use logic...

" To be concerned that someone is or can downball your feat defeats the purpose of even having them. Why debate at all if your afraid someone is gonna debate back? "

You know, i've seen many users, making battle threads, and specificaly stating on the O.P - (no highballing/downballing)...there's a reason for that...now, i don't care if someone tries to highball or downball...but when someone bases thei're entire argument on pure downballing, that bothers me, because thei're not even trying to prove a point...and they don't add anything to the debate...that's more like something, some troll would do, to try to be annoying / calling for attention.

And i'm not afraid of anything, if i was, i wouldn't even have replyed, when it happened in the first place...and i wouldn't still be debating now.

" She is consistent in her ability to coordinate her body to do things other humans cannot. Yes. That doesn't mean we give her pass to be able to do whatever ONE writer writes her as doing. And if pressed Feats>Stats, yes, but that doesn't mean we disregard stats. The feats should still be inline with the on paper stats. If Superman barely keeps up in a Speedster battle involving Flash one day we take it as a high end feat because it is within the scope of Superman's abilities even though stats say he shouldn't be able to keep up in a full tilt speedster battle. But if One day Supes absolutely destroys Flash and ZOOM at the same time with pure speed, we don't take it as meaning Superman is faster than the Flash now. It means it's PiS or WiS. "

Agreed.

" A lot of people adamantly BELIEVED the Sun revolved around the Earth. Doesn't make them any less wrong or stubborn. I'm sure you really do believe that Cass is faster than bullets. But , essentially by you own admission, your wrong. You've already said the writer was probably getting ahead of himself which indicates WiS and you just now said she hasn't consistently outpaced bullets with consistency being one of the main attributes of a Feat to begin with. Your explanation is basically "Cass does cool things all the time so I accept every cool thing she does" and if that is your argument Batman does cool things so I guess he can kick the Specter and is Abstract Tier. Spiderman does a lot of hard to believe cool things so I guess he can down punch out Firelord and is Herald Tier. "

Yeah, that's right!...bring every extreme PIS situation, that you can think of, to help support your argument...

It's literally IMPOSSIBLE for any human, to do most of what Cassie does...but no-one whines about it, because its consistent...so Cassie perform some IMPOSSIBLE feats (like the others are) but its dismissed, due to being "to much for her" because they aren't performed as frequently?...Okay.

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Cassandra Cain for the ridiculously easy win.

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@bat_girl_cc: What ever floats your boat I guess. I see why you get so few replies from some of the more experienced debaters now.

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#185  Edited By SheenLantern

@bat_girl_cc:

Is that right?...name one!

Oh come on. You've seen that scan of Batman punching someone through a reinforced armoured door, and Cap is stronger than either of them.

No Caption Provided

are you serious?...you are comparing Cassie breaking through a 3-inc-quartz-made-window, designed to help secure a volt, to Batman effortlessy breaking a "probably" bullet proof visor?...LOL.

No, I'm comparing it to Batman effortleslly breaking a provably bulletproof visor. Learn to bloody read.

No Caption Provided

Wow, see that? That's evidence that something is bulletproof. This must seem like a strange and alien concept to you.

i did it, because you started downballing it.

"Downballing" in this case meaning calling you out for making stuff up about it?

Heck, why don't I try this? Here's Batman breaking through Mr. Freeze's missile-proof visor.

No Caption Provided

What? You're saying there's no evidence that Mr. Freeze's visor could take a high-powered missile without a scratch? Don't be ridiculous! You're just trying to downball this amazing feat. What would be the point of wearing a visor if said visor couldn't take stuff like missiles? Heck, I bet it could even stop a nuclear bomb. Cus hey, what if Fries has to fight someone with nuclear bombs? Use your common sense.

So there you have it. Batman breaking Mr. Freeze's nuclear bomb-proof visor.

No Caption Provided

Having?...what do you mean by "having"...i've already proved it! remember?...and thanks to you! actually...at first, when you pointed out, that it wasn't stated anywhere in the scans, that the quartz-window was indeed bullet-proof, my only argument, was pure logic...

That's right. That's exactly right. It is pure logic to make up things about a window in a comic book to make your favourite character sound stronger than she actually is on a comic book website.

At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the Oxford definition is......

but then, you decided to downball the quartz-feat even futher...(mocking it, almost)...by providing a lame exemple (your quartz-made-countertops)...and that's when you shooted your own foot...because, then i decided to do a little search on quartz-made-countertops, and...Voilà!...now we know, that even quartz-made-countertops, are bullet proof!

When was this? Because I remember you linking to a random PLR article trying to sell quartz countertops using a common simile to betoken grit, and let's not forget, even if this capricious article was actually claiming that a quartz countertop could withstand a ballistic assault, it doesn't have any evidence or a source of it's own. So it's word is exactly as worthless as yours is. Less so, actually. Since this is the thematic equivalent of a used-car salesman selling a Ford Escort as "Never breaks down!".

1. He's not actually claiming that a 1989 Ford is incapable of breaking down.

2. Even if he was, he has nothing to back it up with.

3. I've seen a Ford Escort break down. *See video of quartz being broken*

4. Why would you listen to him anyway? He's a f***ing used-car salesman.

Oh!...you didn't like that article?...i can always thind more:

Hang on, disregarding the fact that the above applies to both of these in spades both of these articles are selling countertops that are only composed partly of quartz, alloyed with other substances. While I distinctly remember you implying your argument is based on the assumption that the quartz in the comic is pure quartz.

No Caption Provided

So what's the deal?

By the way, I went to the trouble of ringing up my Aunt and Uncle (The ones who had the countertop installed) and they confirmed the countertop was one of the above, alloyed with other materials like granite and stone. The same countertop, I'll remind you, was nearly shattered by a paintcan and needed replacing due the huge cracks. I somehow doubt emptying a 9mm clip into it would have yielded less destructive results.

Lol, don't get petty.

I can't get petty if you stop saying stuff that is wrong.

I'm aware...i just pointed out the fact that, even you were right, regarding the bullet-feat (you aren't) it would still be very impressive.

Yes, it would. It's a shame that I am right and that you can't prove where Batgirl is when the bullet is fired.

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@jedixman said:

Cassie. While she would have to wear him down via pressure points, I really don't see him ever tagging her. Yes, if he gets his hands on her, he would win. But I don't see that happening very often, or even at all.

So, for me, it's 9-10 / 10 win for Cassie.

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#187  Edited By jashro44

@lunacyde said:

@stormdriven said:

@stormdriven said:

Has Cassandra used pressure points before? I honestly am curious. Can anyone provide scans if she has?

I can't post scans at the moment but Cass has used pressure points/nerve strikes just off the top of my head to paralyze Babs and Shiva. She has also used them against random no-names in a few situations.

She has also shown the ability to stop a guys heart with a strike.

Here you go:

No Caption Provided

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#189  Edited By jashro44
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comicvinepoozer1

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Show me the Black Panther pressure point scan. Also Luke is actually a pretty good fighter. If he grabs Cassandra it over, if he hits Cassandra it's over. Everyone isn't thinking who would win in a fight. Some of you are thinking how can Cassandra win in a fight. She isn't Spiderman speed, it's not as though he is gonna be a statue compared too her. Also has Luke ever tagged Spider-Man (pretty sure he hasn't but have a feeling he has

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#191  Edited By Cerberus369616
No Caption Provided

@comicvinepoozer1: The first set shows a random person using them on him and he shows minor resistance, but they still work.

The second with BP he paralyzes him via a nerve pinch before taking him down once he is paralyzed and can't resist.

It's not that people are looking for a way for Cass to win, it's just that she has the tools to win. Everyone knows if Luke grabs or hits her one time she is going out like a light. But Cass has means of hurting him and the means to not get touched, Body Reading. Body reading has allowed her to perfectly avoid people of equal and arguably greater skill like Shiva and Bruce, who eclipse Luke rather easily in skill. And people of similar speed to Cass, which is also greater than Lukes. So yea if Luke hits her one good time or gets a hold of her He will win, but doign so isn;t as easy as just chilling out and waiting for her to mess-up since she has the means of dropping him .

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@cerberus369616: Ok I see. BTW I was talking about that bat girl person. He/She is a raging fan girl/boy

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#193  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@sheenlantern said:

@bat_girl_cc:

Is that right?...name one!

Oh come on. You've seen that scan of Batman punching someone through a reinforced armoured door, and Cap is stronger than either of them.

No Caption Provided

are you serious?...you are comparing Cassie breaking through a 3-inc-quartz-made-window, designed to help secure a volt, to Batman effortlessy breaking a "probably" bullet proof visor?...LOL.

No, I'm comparing it to Batman effortleslly breaking a provably bulletproof visor. Learn to bloody read.

No Caption Provided

Wow, see that? That's evidence that something is bulletproof. This must seem like a strange and alien concept to you.

i did it, because you started downballing it.

"Downballing" in this case meaning calling you out for making stuff up about it?

Heck, why don't I try this? Here's Batman breaking through Mr. Freeze's missile-proof visor.

No Caption Provided

What? You're saying there's no evidence that Mr. Freeze's visor could take a high-powered missile without a scratch? Don't be ridiculous! You're just trying to downball this amazing feat. What would be the point of wearing a visor if said visor couldn't take stuff like missiles? Heck, I bet it could even stop a nuclear bomb. Cus hey, what if Fries has to fight someone with nuclear bombs? Use your common sense.

So there you have it. Batman breaking Mr. Freeze's nuclear bomb-proof visor.

No Caption Provided

Having?...what do you mean by "having"...i've already proved it! remember?...and thanks to you! actually...at first, when you pointed out, that it wasn't stated anywhere in the scans, that the quartz-window was indeed bullet-proof, my only argument, was pure logic...

That's right. That's exactly right. It is pure logic to make up things about a window in a comic book to make your favourite character sound stronger than she actually is on a comic book website.

At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the Oxford definition is......

but then, you decided to downball the quartz-feat even futher...(mocking it, almost)...by providing a lame exemple (your quartz-made-countertops)...and that's when you shooted your own foot...because, then i decided to do a little search on quartz-made-countertops, and...Voilà!...now we know, that even quartz-made-countertops, are bullet proof!

When was this? Because I remember you linking to a random PLR article trying to sell quartz countertops using a common simile to betoken grit, and let's not forget, even if this capricious article was actually claiming that a quartz countertop could withstand a ballistic assault, it doesn't have any evidence or a source of it's own. So it's word is exactly as worthless as yours is. Less so, actually. Since this is the thematic equivalent of a used-car salesman selling a Ford Escort as "Never breaks down!".

1. He's not actually claiming that a 1989 Ford is incapable of breaking down.

2. Even if he was, he has nothing to back it up with.

3. I've seen a Ford Escort break down. *See video of quartz being broken*

4. Why would you listen to him anyway? He's a f***ing used-car salesman.

Oh!...you didn't like that article?...i can always thind more:

Hang on, disregarding the fact that the above applies to both of these in spades both of these articles are selling countertops that are only composed partly of quartz, alloyed with other substances. While I distinctly remember you implying your argument is based on the assumption that the quartz in the comic is pure quartz.

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So what's the deal?

By the way, I went to the trouble of ringing up my Aunt and Uncle (The ones who had the countertop installed) and they confirmed the countertop was one of the above, alloyed with other materials like granite and stone. The same countertop, I'll remind you, was nearly shattered by a paintcan and needed replacing due the huge cracks. I somehow doubt emptying a 9mm clip into it would have yielded less destructive results.

Lol, don't get petty.

I can't get petty if you stop saying stuff that is wrong.

I'm aware...i just pointed out the fact that, even you were right, regarding the bullet-feat (you aren't) it would still be very impressive.

Yes, it would. It's a shame that I am right and that you can't prove where Batgirl is when the bullet is fired.

" Oh come on. You've seen that scan of Batman punching someone through a reinforced armoured door "

Are you talking about the instance when Batman punched a guy with peak-human durabillity (at best) through a (supposed) missile-proof door?...well, the guy survived both the kick, and the door impact, so i don't think that's a good exemple...no to mention, that Batman's kicks don't have the same power-impact of missels...that's just ridiculous.

" and Cap is stronger than either of them. "

Cap is indeed stronger than either of them, but PIS aside, he doesn't hit harder than them (feat-wise).

The feat that you posted, its a strengh-feat...not a striking power feat...not sure why you post it anyway...further more, everybody knows that Cap has enhanced strengh...but skill > strengh, anyday!...who do you think that hits harder? Mike Tyson, or Mark Henry?

" No, I'm comparing it to Batman effortleslly breaking a provably bulletproof visor. Learn to bloody read. "

And how does that prove that Batman hits harder than Cassie?...Wanna see Cassie sending a bullet-proof meta-human, flying into a brick Wall, with one kick?... just watch:

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That guy didn't even felt the bullet hitting him, while the projectil got destroyed...and Cassie sended him flying with one kick!...Also, note that his head, left small craters on that brick wall.

" "Downballing" in this case meaning calling you out for making stuff up about it?

Heck, why don't I try this? Here's Batman breaking through Mr. Freeze's missile-proof visor.

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What? You're saying there's no evidence that Mr. Freeze's visor could take a high-powered missile without a scratch? Don't be ridiculous! You're just trying to downball this amazing feat. What would be the point of wearing a visor if said visor couldn't take stuff like missiles? Heck, I bet it could even stop a nuclear bomb. Cus hey, what if Fries has to fight someone with nuclear bombs? Use your common sense.

So there you have it. Batman breaking Mr. Freeze's nuclear bomb-proof visor.

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Having?...what do you mean by "having"...i've already proved it! remember?...and thanks to you! actually...at first, when you pointed out, that it wasn't stated anywhere in the scans, that the quartz-window was indeed bullet-proof, my only argument, was pure logic...

That's right. That's exactly right. It is pure logic to make up things about a window in a comic book to make your favourite character sound stronger than she actually is on a comic book website.

At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the Oxford definition is......

but then, you decided to downball the quartz-feat even futher...(mocking it, almost)...by providing a lame exemple (your quartz-made-countertops)...and that's when you shooted your own foot...because, then i decided to do a little search on quartz-made-countertops, and...Voilà!...now we know, that even quartz-made-countertops, are bullet proof!

When was this? Because I remember you linking to a random PLR article trying to sell quartz countertops using a common simile to betoken grit, and let's not forget, even if this capricious article was actually claiming that a quartz countertop could withstand a ballistic assault, it doesn't have any evidence or a source of it's own. So it's word is exactly as worthless as yours is. Less so, actually. Since this is the thematic equivalent of a used-car salesman selling a Ford Escort as "Never breaks down!".

1. He's not actually claiming that a 1989 Ford is incapable of breaking down.

2. Even if he was, he has nothing to back it up with.

3. I've seen a Ford Escort break down. *See video of quartz being broken*

4. Why would you listen to him anyway? He's a f***ing used-car salesman. "

So you respond to my arguments, with insults, trolling, non-sense, and even more downballing, Okay.

* moving on *

" Hang on, disregarding the fact that the above applies to both of these in spades both of these articles are selling countertops that are only composed partly of quartz, alloyed with other substances. While I distinctly remember you implying your argument is based on the assumption that the quartz in the comic is pure quartz.

No Caption Provided

So what's the deal?

Why would those "salesman" lie in public? and even worse, on the internet?...one thing is lying to an innocent costumer...another thing is lying this way...by lying this way, they would risk losing all credibillity...not to mention, getting in REAL TROUBLE!

Quartz is the fourth hardest natural material in the world...and they know it, and that's why the used the quartz, to make the countertops more durable, but obviously, quartz with other materials, it's not as durable, as 100% pure quartz...what's so hard to understand?

" By the way, I went to the trouble of ringing up my Aunt and Uncle (The ones who had the countertop installed) and they confirmed the countertop was one of the above, alloyed with other materials like granite and stone. The same countertop, I'll remind you, was nearly shattered by a paintcan and needed replacing due the huge cracks. I somehow doubt emptying a 9mm clip into it would have yielded less destructive results. "

And i should belive in your story, because...can you prove it? if not, why even bothering posting all of that?...i mean, you're the one that has been asking me, to prove everything, so far...so, prove your own story, if you can.

" Yes, it would. It's a shame that I am right and that you can't prove where Batgirl is when the bullet is fired. "

You're right, because...

And you can't prove that Cassie was moving when the shooter pulled the trigger...by the way, i've already showed you, how your logic is flawed.

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@xiix said:

@jedixman said:

Cassie. While she would have to wear him down via pressure points, I really don't see him ever tagging her. Yes, if he gets his hands on her, he would win. But I don't see that happening very often, or even at all.

So, for me, it's 9-10 / 10 win for Cassie.

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Cerberus369616

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#195  Edited By Cerberus369616
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darktiger

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Great fight if Cassie manages not to get hit ill go with her via nerve strikes

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comicvinepoozer1

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@bat_girl_cc: Fangirl Much?

It's not about being fanby or fangirl...its about knowing a character, and understanding their abillities/capabillities...and Luke Cage, shouldn't be able to win a majority against Cassie, IMO.

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#199  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@comicvinepoozer1:

" She isn't Spiderman speed, it's not as though he is gonna be a statue compared too her. "

Cassandra Cain, can dodge bullets after they've been fired effortlessy, dodge sniper-bullets while having her back turned, out-pace bullets, dodge lightning, speed-blitz, and move at blurring speeds, when she wants to.

" Also has Luke ever tagged Spider-Man (pretty sure he hasn't but have a feeling he has. "

I don't think he has, but it's also important to see the context on which it happened...but even if he did, it's PIS.

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comicvinepoozer1

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@bat_girl_cc: how is it PIS? He has tagged those much faster than him before

Also Fangirl/Fanboy does matter. It blocks judgement