Cassie is a notch below Cap physically and a notch above cap's fighting skill. If cap gets his shield he can hang with Cassie until she begins to show fatigue, then he can overwhelm her.
Cassie is a notch below Cap physically and a notch above cap's fighting skill. If cap gets his shield he can hang with Cassie until she begins to show fatigue, then he can overwhelm her.
How is she a notch beneath cap in physical attributes? Cap flip cars, fight for hours without tiring, agile enough to hang with spider man in spurts, and reacts mentally faster than a human could ever hope to in battle.
Cassandra. She has a better track record in combat then Cap does.
Are you kidding? His record smashes hers. He's equal if not superior in skill, outstats her, and has a great defensive weapon. He easily takes the majority.
Cassie is a notch below Cap physically and a notch above cap's fighting skill. If cap gets his shield he can hang with Cassie until she begins to show fatigue, then he can overwhelm her.
How is she a notch beneath cap in physical attributes? Cap flip cars, fight for hours without tiring, agile enough to hang with spider man in spurts, and reacts mentally faster than a human could ever hope to in battle.
Cassandra. She has a better track record in combat then Cap does.
Are you kidding? His record smashes hers. He's equal if not superior in skill, outstats her, and has a great defensive weapon. He easily takes the majority.
Cochise, prepare yourself. I feel the Batgirl fans gathering. And they thirst for your blood.
But I agree with you, but it would be a tough fight though. That he would win.
Cassandra. She has a better track record in combat then Cap does.
Are you kidding? His record smashes hers. He's equal if not superior in skill, outstats her, and has a great defensive weapon. He easily takes the majority.
Cap has had more losses and fewer wins against skilled human opponents then Cassandra has. He's been ko'd by Daredevil and Taskmaster, Kingpin at one point was beating the crap out of him until Redwing saved him, Crossbones has smacked him around. He isn't her equal in skill, Iron Fist has pretty much confirmed this when he stated that Captain America has a basic form. Cap has a tendency to overpower characters rather then outskill them. He even admitted recently that Black Panther was his equal in combat and he sure as hell isn't Cassandra's equal in skill either. Captain America has never beaten a class 7 fighter before. He's beaten solid class 6 fighters like Bucky Crossbones and Daredevil but never a 7 like Iron Fist. Batgirl has defeated Shiva, who would easily be considered a class 7 by Marvel standards. She had Deathstroke on the ropes in their first encounter, she made Bruce cough up blood before he even realized he was hit. Cap outstatting her is debateable also, she's shown more impressive speed feats then Captain America such as outpacing a bullet, kicking through 3 inches of quartz, moving so fast that she couldn't be caught on camera. Cap is the stronger of the two but weather he hits harder is a different story.
Cassandra. She has a better track record in combat then Cap does.
Are you kidding? His record smashes hers. He's equal if not superior in skill, outstats her, and has a great defensive weapon. He easily takes the majority.
Cochise, prepare yourself. I feel the Batgirl fans gathering. And they thirst for your blood. But I agree with you, but it would be a tough fight though. That he would win.
I'm not even a Batgirl fan, I love Dick Grayson way more then any other member of the Bat family but that isn't a reason for me to dismiss her feats. Iron Fist has pretty much confirmed that Captain America has an overrated level of skill. He's definitely an amazing fighter but I wouldn't put him on the same level as Bruce let alone Cassandra. Even Marvel has realized this when they started to classify him as a class 6 fighter recently in their handbooks and statistics. I don't think it would be an easy fight at all, but she should take the majority based on her track record and combat feats.
Cassie is a notch below Cap physically and a notch above cap's fighting skill. If cap gets his shield he can hang with Cassie until she begins to show fatigue, then he can overwhelm her.
How is she a notch beneath cap in physical attributes? Cap flip cars, fight for hours without tiring, agile enough to hang with spider man in spurts, and reacts mentally faster than a human could ever hope to in battle.
I'm confused.
The differences in physical abilities just seem like more than a notch to me. That's what I'm saying.
"Cap has had more losses and fewer wins against skilled human opponents then Cassandra has." Cap has fought evenly or better against Iron Fist, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Daredevil and Shang-Chi.
"He's been ko'd by Daredevil and Taskmaster, Kingpin at one point was beating the crap out of him until Redwing saved him, Crossbones has smacked him around." Funny, in another thread I was getting accused of breaking forum rules by counting low showings. Anyway, Cap has a WINNING record against Daredevil. I don't remember him ever being KO'd by DD; he in fact has come out looking superior to DD every time they tussle; and DD has said Cap is stronger and faster than him. Regarding Kingpin, Cap fought him VERY early in the history of the MU, where Kingpin was presented quite differently than he is now. that Kingpin was also wrecking Spider-Man.
"He isn't her equal in skill, Iron Fist has pretty much confirmed this when he stated that Captain America has a basic form. " That fight you're referring to ended in a stalemate, and to my eyes Cap looked like he had the upper hand. Whether or not a fighter's style is "basic" is not usually relevant to how effective they are. Chuck Liddell had what was considered a "basic" style and yet he was one fo the most feared MMA fighters in his day. Cap's "basic" style has let him hang with "masters" such as Iron Fist, Shang Chi, etc. he doesn't need to know a hundred styles to be just as effective.
"He even admitted recently that Black Panther was his equal in combat and he sure as hell isn't Cassandra's equal in skill either. " You severely underestimate Black Panther. "Captain America has never beaten a class 7 fighter before. He's beaten solid class 6 fighters like Bucky Crossbones and Daredevil but never a 7 like Iron Fist. Batgirl has defeated Shiva, who would easily be considered a class 7 by Marvel standards. " I'm not familiar with this grading system, I just go by the comics. But if Cap is a six I'd be surprised if Shiva was a seven since he's her superior in H2H combat.
"She had Deathstroke on the ropes in their first encounter, she made Bruce cough up blood before he even realized he was hit." This simply isn't true, I'll chalk it up to your obvious enthusiasm for the character. The fight with Deathstroke was a draw (and that's a feather in her cap), but Slade was most certainly not "on the ropes." Hell, he was grinning. it was a game to him. And the "phantom punch" you're referring to... This fallacy comes up every now and then. It refers to a sparring match they had early in her series. You see them start, and then it cuts right to the end. THE MATCH IS NOT SHOWN. Then you see Cass hunched over, out of breath. Bruce is telling her to train more, then he spits up some blood and looks surprised. Surprised as in, "Damn, I didn't realize she hit me that hard." Which is a nice moment for Cass. it doesn't mean he was hit so fast that he didn't notice... unless the same punch deadened his nerve endings for a few moments and he didn't feel it either. This happens all the time in fights: someone gets hit in the head and wants to keep fighting, not realizing that they've sustained a gash or other injury of the sort. It doesn't mean they were hit so fast they didn't realize it. Especially since the punch in question happens off panel - very weak evidence for speed there.
@Cochise: The DD KOing happened (as I've heard it) because DD snuck into the Avengers mansion and ambushed Cap in the dark and threw him head first into a wall. Many say BS but I don't know as I've never read it but I agree with you on all counts regarding Cap.
"Cap has had more losses and fewer wins against skilled human opponents then Cassandra has." Cap has fought evenly or better against Iron Fist, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Daredevil and Shang-Chi.
"He's been ko'd by Daredevil and Taskmaster, Kingpin at one point was beating the crap out of him until Redwing saved him, Crossbones has smacked him around." Funny, in another thread I was getting accused of breaking forum rules by counting low showings. Anyway, Cap has a WINNING record against Daredevil. I don't remember him ever being KO'd by DD; he in fact has come out looking superior to DD every time they tussle; and DD has said Cap is stronger and faster than him. Regarding Kingpin, Cap fought him VERY early in the history of the MU, where Kingpin was presented quite differently than he is now. that Kingpin was also wrecking Spider-Man.
"He isn't her equal in skill, Iron Fist has pretty much confirmed this when he stated that Captain America has a basic form. " That fight you're referring to ended in a stalemate, and to my eyes Cap looked like he had the upper hand. Whether or not a fighter's style is "basic" is not usually relevant to how effective they are. Chuck Liddell had what was considered a "basic" style and yet he was one fo the most feared MMA fighters in his day. Cap's "basic" style has let him hang with "masters" such as Iron Fist, Shang Chi, etc. he doesn't need to know a hundred styles to be just as effective.
"He even admitted recently that Black Panther was his equal in combat and he sure as hell isn't Cassandra's equal in skill either. " You severely underestimate Black Panther. "Captain America has never beaten a class 7 fighter before. He's beaten solid class 6 fighters like Bucky Crossbones and Daredevil but never a 7 like Iron Fist. Batgirl has defeated Shiva, who would easily be considered a class 7 by Marvel standards. " I'm not familiar with this grading system, I just go by the comics. But if Cap is a six I'd be surprised if Shiva was a seven since he's her superior in H2H combat.
"She had Deathstroke on the ropes in their first encounter, she made Bruce cough up blood before he even realized he was hit." This simply isn't true, I'll chalk it up to your obvious enthusiasm for the character. The fight with Deathstroke was a draw (and that's a feather in her cap), but Slade was most certainly not "on the ropes." Hell, he was grinning. it was a game to him. And the "phantom punch" you're referring to... This fallacy comes up every now and then. It refers to a sparring match they had early in her series. You see them start, and then it cuts right to the end. THE MATCH IS NOT SHOWN. Then you see Cass hunched over, out of breath. Bruce is telling her to train more, then he spits up some blood and looks surprised. Surprised as in, "Damn, I didn't realize she hit me that hard." Which is a nice moment for Cass. it doesn't mean he was hit so fast that he didn't notice... unless the same punch deadened his nerve endings for a few moments and he didn't feel it either. This happens all the time in fights: someone gets hit in the head and wants to keep fighting, not realizing that they've sustained a gash or other injury of the sort. It doesn't mean they were hit so fast they didn't realize it. Especially since the punch in question happens off panel - very weak evidence for speed there.
I don't care how evenly you think he fought with these characters, I care about how many wins he's garnered. He's never beaten Black Panther before, he's never beaten Iron Fist, why you're even mentioning Spider-man as if he was a skilled fighter is beyond me. I'm not even familiar with the Shang Chi fight you mentioned, I know he recently sparred with him in Secret Avengers #9 but key word is sparring.
These aren't low showings. You made a claim that Captain America has a better track record in combat and so far the only thing you've mentioned is how well he's done against other fighters and not him actually winning fights. In the fights with Daredevil and Taskmaster, Captain America has actually lost. If you fully read my previous post you'd know that I stated that Captain America has beaten Daredevil and Crossbones but it doesn't change the fact that he's lost to them as well, thus affecting his track record against skilled fighters. Daredevil Ko'd him in #155 of his original volume and Captain America was out while Black Widow ended up fighting Matt. You can argue that Kingpin was different back then, but he was still never able to beat Daredevil except for when he was already exhausted. For the record I do think that Cap is more skilled than Daredevil is.
In that fight with Iron Fist [if that's the fight you're talking about] Iron Fist stated that Cap's speed and power were incredible. Meaning that Cap can hang with top tier martial artist more so because he's stronger and faster then they are and not solely because of his skill. He was Danny's superior physically back then and that's why he was able to fight him evenly. As for Cap having the upper hand Danny was also trying to convince Cap to stop fighting for most of the fight also. So it isn't like Danny was going all out either. He doesn't need to be a master of hundreds of styles but it proves that Cap is more accustom to overpowering character than outskilling them.
Not at all, to underestimate Black Panther would be to call him a mediocre fighter or to dismiss his feats. He's beaten Red Skull, he's beaten Killomonger, he's fought evenly with Daredevil while holding back, he's beaten Karnak. He beat T'Chaka. The fact is though that T'Challa in raw hand to hand skill is not on the same level as Cassandra is. It doesn't make him a bad or a mediocre fighter but someone who just isn't up to par with Cass. I do have to say that I find his track record in combat a bit more impressive then Captain America's.
Steve was rated a 7 for a while but recently was lowered to a 6. Cap has never actually beaten someone who's a class 7 fighter before. He's fought class 7's but has no wins over class 7's. As far Steve being a better fighter, what are you basing this off of? Certainly not his skill showings in comics, he might be stronger and faster but skills go to Shiva.
The fight with Deathstroke was a draw? The first time they ever met in Nightwing's series, she landed several hits on Deathstroke and Slade landed none of his own, than blew up the building. That is in no way, shape or form a draw. When one character leaves because he can't land a hit, than that's a loss. Period. The instance you're talking about where it was "a game" as you put it was when Slade was luring Cassandra across the city so he can have Ravager fight her instead. I wouldn't call that a fight let alone a draw. The one solid fight they had Cassandra was clearly dominating him. As far Bruce goes, it was a sparring match but so was the Cap vs Shang Chi instance from SA #9 that you mentioned earlier so I don't why I shouldn't be able to mention it. Unless of course you're referring to an actual fight Captain America and Shang Chi had which I've never seen. They interacted briefly in Civil War Heroes for Hire, when Paladin Ko'd Cap and most of his group with gas before Shang sneaked up behind him and beat the crap out of him and switched them out. In Captain America #302 , since it was actually a speed related feat and not just a sparring match. Plus there are other numerous speed feats that trump Captain America's speed feats.
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
Can x23 react to bullets and see them coming? Cap can
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
Can x23 react to bullets and see them coming? Cap can
What does x23 have to do with this? lol
Cassandra can react to bullets...at point blank range...after they've left the barrel.
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
Can x23 react to bullets and see them coming? Cap can
What does x23 have to do with this? lol
Cassandra can react to bullets...at point blank range...after they've left the barrel.
Hey, does the cross-over between Captain and Batman count? I think that it must count and accept the fact that Cassandra may be one of the best, but Captain may defeat her. Batman had a serious problem defeating him and if memory serves me well, it was something like a draw. He has experience, fighting skills, and his shield. Furthermore, he's not a mere mortal. He has super powers, we tend to forget that about Captain.
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
Can x23 react to bullets and see them coming? Cap can
What does x23 have to do with this? lol
Cassandra can react to bullets...at point blank range...after they've left the barrel.
d@mmit my bad, they always look the same to me.
SCANSS!!!!!
If you haven't seen scans of Cassandra Cain's feats on ComicVine, you clearly have not been on this site for very long.
This is actually a pretty good fight. I'm going with Cassie. Faster (though not by much), move prediction, access to one-hit-kill strikes since morals are off, and all around better track record against top-tier martial artist.
Can x23 react to bullets and see them coming? Cap can
What does x23 have to do with this? lol
Cassandra can react to bullets...at point blank range...after they've left the barrel.
d@mmit my bad, they always look the same to me.
SCANSS!!!!!
If you haven't seen scans of Cassandra Cain's feats on ComicVine, you clearly have not been on this site for very long.
..............O.K, I haven't been on this site long enough............................Are you gonna show me a scan or was that all you had to say? XD
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