Cassandra Cain and Batman VS Midnighter

I want to know who takes this when these characters fight each other on a level playing field.

• Hand to hand combat only.
• Physical stats are equalized. So no healing factor, blitz, no one is having his head lopped off.
• Midnighter has battle computer.
• In character. Their goal is to knock the other out.
• Pre/New 52 versions.

VS

Fighting in here:

Midnighter LOL-spite-stomps.

Still Midnighter? Oh wow.

Oh and the pic is wrong too.

@hatemalingsia: This is a mismatch and you know it

I didn't. I will just add Batman and see if it changes anything.

The battlefield its irrelevant here.

1) Cassandra Cain is a street-leveler, Midnighter is a mid-tier

2) Midnighter will always know the out-come of the battle, no matter what...this thread should be locked...Mismatches are allowed, Spite's, aren't.

What about now. Their stats are equalized too.

I would like alot to say that the team wins, but honesly don't see how they can.

I'll say the team. Not sure if midnighter has faced an established fighter he never had a stat edge on. The battle computer is an advantage but it can be overcome I am sure.

He'd stomp under regular conditions.

In the New 52 Grayson gave him trouble on 2 ocasions, but that was WIS.

Also, in the first, Dick was winning until Midnighter admitted that he was holding-back, then he beat up on dick, and on the second, dick started by move-reading him, but he got eventually overwhelmed...anyway, Grayson lasting even 5 seconds in a fight against Midnighter, its WIS.

How would Bruce and Cass overcome the battle computer?

midnighter

I never brought up the grayson fight. As for how they overcome the battle computer, stats are equalized. Midnighter needs to defend against 2 enemies in his speed class. Knowing every move your enemy makes is an advantage but its not an instant win. Unless midnighter has feats against people who in there skill class and can match midnighter stat wise, or feats of a depowered midnighter which would suggest he would win I don't see why his skill should be considered in the same level as these guys. Obviously midnighter is a skilled guy but his usual showings are a combination of skill and physicals.

I know, you asked about Midnighter fighting stablished fighters, (granted Dick, is no Richard Dragon) and i pointed out the 2 most recent ones that i know of.

I agree that the team has a huge skill advantage over Midnigher, but if he knows every possible combination...no matter what move they decide to make, i think that Midnighter should already have that covered...but yeah, feat-wise, Midnighter lacks, in this circunstances.

Lol, The thing is, Midnighter is annoying, before he even starts fighting, he's already aware of every possible move his opponents attempt...though, without it, i'd say that Cass would solo, in a stomp!

Its better, though, sadly i still see Midnighter winning.

@bat_girl_cc: I just don't see the battle computer being enough. Batman for example has stalemated lady shiva who can move read, and is in addition comparable to him physically in every way (even being slightly faster). Midnighters computer is far above move reading granted, but as far as I know shiva is far above midnighter in skill. With the addition of Cass I don't think midnighter can fight 2 people who basically match him stat wise, exceed him skill, who have very solid team work, and will be attacking him at the same time.

Fair enough, you have a point there.

I would like to see a fight under this conditions happening in the comics.

You are assuming the New 52 midnighter is as strong as his Stormwatch version, which is uncertain. So saying his showings in Grayson is WIS is a bit jumping the gun In my opinion.

@zhurong@bat_girl_cc

@leo-343: lol

There's no reason to assume that it isn't, Storwatch was buyed by DC, so now, they are DC characters, its the same character.

@hatemalingsia said:

@zhurong@bat_girl_cc

? where is this from?...sounds like a plot-device, to me...so he knows how the fight will play out, every nuance, but he needs to wait for the opponent to strike first? humm...

@bat_girl_cc: I know, considering Dick fought him twice now. Lol.

@bat_girl_cc said:

@jestersmiles said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@jashro44 said:

I'll say the team. Not sure if midnighter has faced an established fighter he never had a stat edge on. The battle computer is an advantage but it can be overcome I am sure.

He'd stomp under regular conditions.

In the New 52 Grayson gave him trouble on 2 ocasions, but that was WIS.

Also, in the first, Dick was winning until Midnighter admitted that he was holding-back, then he beat up on dick, and on the second, dick started by move-reading him, but he got eventually overwhelmed...anyway, Grayson lasting even 5 seconds in a fight against Midnighter, its WIS.

How would Bruce and Cass overcome the battle computer?

You are assuming the New 52 midnighter is as strong as his Stormwatch version, which is uncertain. So saying his showings in Grayson is WIS is a bit jumping the gun In my opinion.

There's no reason to assume that it isn't, Storwatch was buyed by DC, so now, they are DC characters, its the same character.

@hatemalingsia said:

@zhurong@bat_girl_cc

? where is this from?...sounds like a plot-device, to me...so he knows how the fight will play out, every nuance, but he needs to wait for the opponent to strike first? humm...

and they're in a universe that was just retconned, so assuming that all the Storm watch characters are at the same power level is a bit jumping the gun.

@jestersmiles:

Well, if they did nerf Midnighter, that would explain Grayson keeping up with him...although, i don't see the point of bringing a character back, just to change them and leave the name, might as well make a whole knew character.

Anyway, i hope that you're right, because Grayson's title is actually pretty good, the premise its interesting, and it has alot of potencial, PIS takes away from a book.

Yup.

Well that the point of a retcon , to tweak stuff around to better suit the story. The same could be said about DC's own characters, most if not all of them are no where near the same level of their pre 52 counter parts , with just a few getting buffs (captain Atom).

So if they deemed Midnighter to be a tad OP, I see no reason to bring him down a notch, which the same is going to happen to Mr Majestic if it hasn't already. He be place a tad under superman.

What's the problem with Mr. Majestic being near Superman level? IIRC Apollo has died in New 52.

@hatemalingsia: Doubt DC is going to let him out shine Superman.

Pre-New 52 Midnighter wtfcurbstomps the Bat team.

New 52 Midnighter still stomps.

@nefarious In a contest of pure h2h? I don't know about that.

With stats equal, this isnt going to end well for Midighter. Every scenario he predicts, would end in defeat. Doesn't seem fair.

Oh really? And if I take Batman out?

i want to say the bat family, but midnighter is too good. faster, stronger, can hit harder, and can read opponents moves before they make them... if batman and cass have their gear, I want to think they have the skill and experience to put midnighter in a position that cannot be countered even if he ran the scenario in his mind a million times.

@hatemalingsia: Then i think things would be equal. The battle computer may allow Midnighter to keep up with either; the most skilled martial artist in the DC universe, or the most naturally talented one, but not both. No ripping you or this batte, Im just surprised more people can't agree with that.

@tg_54: Read the OP. He isnt faster or stronger in this scenario.

Eh, everyone to his taste. Can't really tell you what my opinion is, hah. Thanks for the answer, appreciate it.

@logy5000: Midnighter is far stronger than anyone here and I think he is a better combatant.

Midnighter is an annoying character in CV style matches.

The way his Battle computer works, is that if there is anychance of him winning, he wins.

The only way he loses, is if he is so outmatched, that there is absolutely no way for him to with the fight.

Finally researched Midnighter and read some comics... He was definitely nerfed in the new 52, Midnighter is taking this.

@nefarious: Stats are equal. His strength advantage is neutralized.

I'm not very knowledgeable on Midnighter though, so I can't debate for fighting skill advantages.

Batman stomps.

Callouts:

Midnighter bc of the battle computer

batman solos.

Midnighter.

withe speed equalized batman will be able to read his moves to and batman has more patience it becomes a counter match and midnighter gets frustrated and leaves.