Carnage Runs The Gauntlet

" yes he does he has used it in the past to give himself clothes and disguise himself. bisides he has every power the original venom has . "

Besides the difference in strength there is nothing that Carnage or Venom for that matter can do or have done agility wise that Spider-man has not. So how are they four times better.

" Artist interpretation. Visual effect.

Heat or no heat Cyclops can take down Carnage either way.

@Morpheus_ said:

" i) he knows he is facing Cyclops 5 minutes before the fight - I assume that Carnage isn't that stupid, going to fight face to face with an enemy that could obliterate him
ii) the setting gives plenty of chances to Carnage to take cover and attack Cyclops from the back (it's not like he would find it immoral), or sucker punch him in general
iii) with their major differences in strength and agility, and since Carnage is out for the kill, one hit is all it would take"

1) The thing is he is that stupid because more often than not he lets his bloodlust take over and that means he does not think ahead, just acts. Which doing this against someone like Cyclops leaves him open for attacks.2) Cyclops knows that he is walking into a hostile environment. He is not going to go stalking around looking for trouble out in the open. All he has to do is set up shop somewhere with cover, where there is only one opening to get to him at and wait. Once whoever it is he is facing off against shows their face he has a clear and unexpected shot.3) Strength does not matter because Cyclops is not going to sit there and do a fist fight against him. As for Carnage Agility it means squat when he has not clue the blast is coming at him. Spider-man has the sense, not Carnage and Venom. On a regular basis Cyclops hits people who are faster and more agile than Carnage. Quicksilver, Northstar, Beast, Nightcrawler, Toad, the list can go on. "

"ii) Vance Astro suggested that Cyclops would "clear" the area in no time. So take your pick: does he choose a spot and wait, or he just takes shots at everything?
iii) He doesn't have spider sense, that is correct - never said anything to the contrary, though. As for the people you list, , with the obvious exception of Quicksilver,(I am not familiar with Northstar) , I truly don't know...Taking into consideration that Carnage's physical capabilities are usually : Spidey + Venom combined, it could work both ways.

" @Morpheus_ said:

"ii) Vance Astro suggested that Cyclops would "clear" the area in no time. So take your pick: does he choose a spot and wait, or he just takes shots at everything?
iii) He doesn't have spider sense, that is correct - never said anything to the contrary, though. As for the people you list, , with the obvious exception of Quicksilver,(I am not familiar with Northstar) , I truly don't know...Taking into consideration that Carnage's physical capabilities are usually : Spidey + Venom combined, it could work both ways.

2) That's the thing with Cyclops either tactic can work for him while Carnage has to get a lot closer to him. Cyclops even without knowing who he fights as the advantage of a greater ranged attack, a more powerful attack. That he can clear the area and keep anyone from sneaking up on him, or sit and wait. I see Cyclops finding a spot to hold up in before clearing out the area. He will also be able to blast carnage into pits of fire by knocking him into them.3) Northstar is another speedster in a way. Beast and Nightcrawler are both on par(Or close enough) with Spider-man in terms of agility to where it hardly matters. I would also say that both Nightcrawler and Beasts acrobatic ability exceeds anything Carnage has ever shown. There is no doubt in my mind that Cyclops can tag Carnage. "

man i forgot how bad carnage was.. carnage can kill and get close enough by stealth and use of his tendrils ftw. up till he gets to omega red.

" @Dreadnaught said:

" Gargan venom kills carnage eats his symbiote, kills brock venom, eats his symbiote, and then kills everyone else with his class 170 strength. "

Please, tell me you are joking, or something to that effect..
"

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Dreadnaught said:

" Gargan venom kills carnage eats his symbiote, kills brock venom, eats his symbiote, and then kills everyone else with his class 170 strength. "

Please, tell me you are joking, or something to that effect..
"

Not very many people on that list seem to be that strong also 60+60+50=170, unless some idiot changed the laws of math. "

" @Dreadnaught said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Dreadnaught said:

" Gargan venom kills carnage eats his symbiote, kills brock venom, eats his symbiote, and then kills everyone else with his class 170 strength. "

Please, tell me you are joking, or something to that effect..
"

Not very many people on that list seem to be that strong also 60+60+50=170, unless some idiot changed the laws of math. "

And where does 60+60+50 = 170, fit in, exactly? Venom (Gargan), is class 60, at best. Venom (Brock) is class 10+. I am uncertain about Carnage's strength level. I have seen several figures, varying from 25 to 50 tons. If, by "eat", you mean that Gargan could absorb the other symbiotes, I don't think he could do that. I have only seen Ultimate Venom doing it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. "

" @Dreadnaught:I didn't know that. It was normal Venom (Brock) who did this then, not Gargan. And the symbiote had the strength level of both Venom and Carnage? In that case, his strength would be 35 - 60 tons, depending on how powerful Carnage originally is. "

" @Morpheus_ said:

" I don't have access to the X-Men handbook right now. When I do, I shall repost.
"

I do and they don't say that his beams don't produce heat but they don't say they do either. "

" Artist interpretation. Visual effect.

Heat or no heat Cyclops can take down Carnage either way.

@Morpheus_ said:

" i) he knows he is facing Cyclops 5 minutes before the fight - I assume that Carnage isn't that stupid, going to fight face to face with an enemy that could obliterate him
ii) the setting gives plenty of chances to Carnage to take cover and attack Cyclops from the back (it's not like he would find it immoral), or sucker punch him in general
iii) with their major differences in strength and agility, and since Carnage is out for the kill, one hit is all it would take"

1) The thing is he is that stupid because more often than not he lets his bloodlust take over and that means he does not think ahead, just acts. Which doing this against someone like Cyclops leaves him open for attacks.2) Cyclops knows that he is walking into a hostile environment. He is not going to go stalking around looking for trouble out in the open. All he has to do is set up shop somewhere with cover, where there is only one opening to get to him at and wait. Once whoever it is he is facing off against shows their face he has a clear and unexpected shot.3) Strength does not matter because Cyclops is not going to sit there and do a fist fight against him. As for Carnage Agility it means squat when he has not clue the blast is coming at him. Spider-man has the sense, not Carnage and Venom. On a regular basis Cyclops hits people who are faster and more agile than Carnage. Quicksilver, Northstar, Beast, Nightcrawler, Toad, the list can go on. "

Hmmm, that seems very flawed.

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" I don't have access to the X-Men handbook right now. When I do, I shall repost.
"

I do and they don't say that his beams don't produce heat but they don't say they do either. "

OK, here it is, " Cyclops possesses the mutant ability to project a beam of heatless, ruby-colored concussive force from his eyes, which act as interdimensional apertures between this universe and another". - The Official Handbook of the MarvelUniverse, X-Men, 2004

It says it is heatless, unless, of course, you have an updated version.

Oh ok.I only have the one from '05. "

It's fair to assume that what Bishop is saying is due to the fact that his own power level is "burning" up and hurting him.  There are far too many displays of Cyclops' beam not producing heat than the rare occurance of smoke from a body (such as the crossover where he shot Batman)

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" I don't have access to the X-Men handbook right now. When I do, I shall repost.
"

I do and they don't say that his beams don't produce heat but they don't say they do either. "

OK, here it is, " Cyclops possesses the mutant ability to project a beam of heatless, ruby-colored concussive force from his eyes, which act as interdimensional apertures between this universe and another". - The Official Handbook of the MarvelUniverse, X-Men, 2004

It says it is heatless, unless, of course, you have an updated version.

Oh ok.I only have the one from '05. "

Which means what? That his beam was heatless in 2004, and changed in 2005? "

No.Cyclops isn't in the 2005 version and the only other handbook entries I have for him say nothing about heat.I don't have the 2004 version to actually confirm what's in it. "

So then we're in agreement, yes?

Please provide scans in 616 continuity scans (if possible, if not,  examples will do) aside from the Bishop one.  I already gave my explanation for that.  So far, yes, I'd say artist inconsistency.

I believe Carnage can make it to Venom Gargan, by that time he'll be way too fatigued and Gragan will probably win in a straight out brawl. Then again Gargan is a lot less skilled than Carnage or Brock for that matter. 

 Omega Red's feats are so unimpressive, what has he done besides fight Colossus and Wolverine? PIS probably. I was looking at the cover and thinking - maybe he's got him by the neck and Colossus doesn't need air, so he doesn't really care. BUT NO. Somebody who is around a 10 tonner suddenly became able to challenge a class 100 character.
  
Carnage has speed and agility that rival Spider-man/Venom which should be what he needs to avoid Cyclops' optic beams. In H2H it's all over for Cyke. If Carnage makes it that far.

If Carnage doesn't make it the Goblin bombs will be way too close for comfort. So he goes up to the Venoms. But he could easily take out Steve and Cyclops - with more effort though.

Carnage loses at the first Venom.

"Carnage loses at the first Venom. "

I think he would run the whole gauntlet unless Gambit stops him.

"I think he would run the whole gauntlet unless Gambit stops him. "

13) Captain America (Steve)...Steve should be in trouble.  His only chance is to bring a burning building down on Carnage with a shield thrw.  Carnage should win majority here. 
 
Goblin is the stopper here for me.

I think he can clear it

" @Nobody said:

"Carnage loses at the first Venom. "

Why is that? "

He could get stopped at Frank if Frank uses his brain he'd win!

" @k4tzm4n said:

" @Nobody said:

"Carnage loses at the first Venom. "

Why is that? "

Mac is stronger than Carnage. Neither are great fighters, but Mac has the advantage of being "fresh" where Carnage has been battling. It won't be an easy fight, but I see Mac taking him out. "

He clears it.

Wow, this is an old one.

Clears It!

@venomoushatred1001 said:

He clears it.

If he can get past omega red I would say he either clears or stops at cyclops depending on what cyclops does.

I may sound like a fan boy here but carnage is one bad dude he was taking on venom and spidey at the same time and is stronger than them with similar speed and agility (debatable). Beast could make use of the fire but you need very extreme heat to affect him a grenade or a train rail will not do the trick. beast doesn't get close enough to him to make use of said fire. He wrecks punisher. Doc Ock is a pretty tough opponent but without prior knowledge that hes facing carnage hes not much of a threat. Kraven gets wrecked. Gambit would be a bad matchup for carnage but carnage is far stronger and even though gambit is no slouch on the agility side carnage is faster coupled with camo carnage wins. Goblin has range weapons but only the bombs will affect him and carnage has an unlimited supply of his own projectiles to destroy the glider, once the glider is gone goblin is done. Omega red is one tough cookie, Im not sure where he is on strength level compared to carnage but cassidy again is faster and will have the element of surprise, im not sure his death spores would affect the symbiote same with the life drain but carnage has the range on the tentacles if spores don't work carnage takes it IMO (although its pretty debatable). He puts the beat down on gargan. Spidey or Brock has always given him a run for his money but i cant think of any times either of them has taken carnage in a solo straight up fight with no prep. Scott is another bad match up for cassidy, scott has the range and the power to destroy him but carnage is a dirty player he will use his camo and tendrils to incapacitate scott and get close enough to use his superior strength and agility to get the best of him. Cap has fought tougher opponents feat wise than carnage but at close range carnages tendrils can get past the shield which makes him a bad match up for Cap. After all that Kletus Cassidy takes it IMO

This is in dire need of a revamp. I'll update the OP later.

GAUNTLET HAS RECEIVED A MUCH NEEDED REFRESH AND BALANCE UPDATE!

Stops at Joe or clears.

@venomoushatred1001: Well, which is it? Do you think Carnage can take a majority against Joe or not? If so, why? If not, why? ;)

@k4tzm4n said:

@venomoushatred1001: Well, which is it? Do you think Carnage can take a majority against Joe or not? If so, why? If not, why? ;)

Stops at Joe.

@venomoushatred1001: But why?

#pullingteethtogetadebategoing

@k4tzm4n said:

@venomoushatred1001: But why?

#pullingteethtogetadebategoing

Joe has too durable to be brought down by Cletus' attacks. Not to mention he has an insane healing factor to heal from anything Kasady can dish out. Granted Carnage is faster and more agile than Fixit, but its only an amount of time before Joe grabs him and, well, smashes him.