Capture The Flag Round 1: Esquire vs wbr17

Scenario:

The first round of the tournament takes place in the wild and vast wasteland of the Mojave Desert. The battleground is a 10 x 20 mile rectangle that is completely unpopulated.

If you leave the boundaries of the battlefield you are disqualified. You will be competing against another team that would love nothing more than to rip out your trachea with their bare hands. Both teams will be drugged and air-dropped into the desert by night with nothing but the clothes on their back, a map of the battlefield, a card key, a single combat knife, and a single canteen of water. (Note: Clothes include combat boots, socks, standard tan BDU pants, a belt, a t-shirt/tank top in their team color and a head covering of their choice.) Both teams will awaken from their drugged stupor at approximately 7:00 AM.

The weather for the duration of the competition is clear and dry with a high of 110˚ F. They will begin approximately equidistant from their respective bases, which will be classic wild-west styled towns. These towns will be at the back center of their respective sides of the field. Within the main Saloon of these towns is where the flags will be kept.

In the very exact center of the battlefield there will be a junkyard that they will also begin equidistant from.

Hidden somewhere in this junkyard is a safe color coded with the team’s colors (red or blue). This safe can only be opened by the card key given to the team. The safe is made from adamantium and is indestructible. You cannot open the other team’s safe as they have a different card key. Both team’s safes are found in the junkyard, but will be hidden among the junk. There will also be a black safe which can be opened by answering a sequence of five riddles prepared by the Riddler. This safe is first come first serve and can be accessed by anyone. Your character must demonstrate serious intelligence or expertise in riddles/logic/puzzles/etc to have a chance of opening this safe. Assume solving these riddles will take at least five minutes for even the most brilliant mind.

In the (red/blue) safe there will be 2 Kevlar Vests, 5 pistols of your choice, 1 manual action shotgun of your choice, 1 Manual action Rifle of your choice, 1 Assault Rifle of your choice, 1 Bow of your choice w/ standard arrows, 3 Frag Grenades, 3 Flash-bangs, 3 Smoke Grenades, 2 Claymore Mines, 1 lb of Semtex/C4, 100 ft of nylon rope, 5 knives of your choice, 1 standard material melee weapon of your choice, 1 steel hatchet, 1 pair of brass knuckles, 1 pair of Binoculars, a compass, 2 books of matches, 3 additional canteens, 5 lbs of canned fruits and beans, 1 lb of beef jerky, and a Fifth of Johnie Walker Blue Label. ( All guns have only iron sights)

In the black safe there will be 2 additional Kevlar vests, 1 additional assault rifle, 3 sticky grenades, 3 Gas masks, 1 pair Night Vision Goggles, 4 Extended clips, 2 speed loaders, 1 Holographic Sight, 1 ACOG scope, 2 additional lbs of Semtex/C4, 3 Bouncing Betty's, 5 wireless bluetooth communicators with a range of 2 miles, 1 adamantium melee weapon of your choice, and a canister of 1 use spray that can heal any bodily injury, except damage to the brain.

You may use whatever strategy you wish, but the in the end, whoever captures the other team’s flag and returns it to their base while retaining their own flag will win.

Team Esquire (Red):

Team wbr17 (Blue):

@wbr17

@Esquire Let's start!

Once they wake, my team won't have any problem to read the map, so they'll go straight to the junkyard, with the knowledge of Spartan and German, they go as stealth as possible, but without slow down, doing it in a normal pace. During the walk, they can combine some sign language that will help them communicate without making noises, and pick up some rocks.

Arriving in the junkyard, Spartan will lead them into a formation that on let anyone vulnerable and helpless, Tattoo will analyse the local and figure out where is most probable location of the boxes,so they won't look in dumb places, saving time. Since, Wrecker is the smallest, he can walk and reach some places that none can, that's a small advantage, but an advantage. Well, we can't say who would find what first, that's most a luck/probability thing.

Finding my red box that's how "The Accidents" distribute the resources:

• Spartan: Bow w/ standard arrows, 2 knives, spear, steel hatchet;
• German: pistol, manual action shotgun, manual action rifle, frag grenade, knife;
• Hangman: 2 pistols, assault rifle, frag grenade, flash-bang, smoke grenade, knife, brass knuckles;
• Tattoo: Kevlar Vest, pistol, frag grenade, smoke grenade, flash-bang, knife, binocular;
• Wrecker: Kevlar Vest, pistol,smoke grenade, flash-bang, knife, compass.

Everything else will be distribute when they arrive the team base.

If they find the black box, Tattoo has enough intelligence to open it in 5 min. If my team find the black box before the red one, they'll take it to the base, then will come back to keep searching the red one. In case of find red, will equip like i said above, and keep looking for the black, once they get both will go to the base. They'll avoid confrontation, unless its necessary, so they 'll walk stealthily in the junkyard.

I'll stop here, i think we can debate point by point. You can post what will be your team first move.

@wbr17:Once my team has woken up and seen the map, Sleuth and Lookout will very quickly be able to come up with a plan. Lookout can run at a full sprint for two minutes and Agent has proven to be extremely fast in his infamous Parkour chase from Casino Royale, so they'll use their speed to run for the junkyard. They won't be sprinting, but they're fast enough that they should arrive first. This will give me an edge in finding the safes. Sleuth, Striker, and Vamp should arrive shortly after, at roughly the same time your team does. With Sleuth's incredible powers of observation and deduction, I'll have another advantage in finding the safe first. When I find my colored safe, my team will distribute the gear:

• Sleuth: Revolver, 2 Flashbangs, C4, Knife, Steel Baton, Brass knuckles, Binoculars
• Lookout: Kevlar Vest, Sig P228 Pistol, Remington M700 Rifle, 1 Frag Grenade, Knife
• Agent: Kevlar Vest, Walther P99 Pistol, H&K UMP Assault Rifle, 1 Frag Grenade, Knife
• Vamp: 2 Glock 26 Pistols, 1 Frag Grenade, 1 Smoke Grenade
• Striker: 2 Claymores, 2 Knives, 2 Smoke Grenades, 1 Flashbang, Hatchet, Bow and Arrows, Shotgun

The food will be distributed among everyone equally.

If I find the black safe, Sleuth will start working on the riddles. With his incredible intelligence and deductive skills, he's perfectly suited to the task of opening it. Striker will search near him for the red safe, staying in view. The other three will continue their search for the colored safe. If I open the black safe, the gear will be distributed:

• Sleuth: Kevlar Vest, Gas Mask, NVGs, Adamantium Baton
• Lookout: FN Scar-H w/ ACOG Scope, Sticky Grenade, Extended Clip, Speed Loader, 1 lb Semtex, (gives M700 to Striker)
• Agent: Sticky Grenade, Extended Clip, Speed Loader, Holographic Sight for UMP
• Vamp: Sticky Grenade, Gas Mask, 2 Extended Clips
• Striker: Gas Mask, 1 lb Semtex, Bouncing Bettys, Healing Spray, M700 (From Lookout)

Then Striker will return to my base. He'll use the Claymores, Bouncing Bettys, and Semtex to set up traps around my flag before taking a vantage point in an upstairs window with his rifle. The rest of my team will make their way to your base, with Lookout's ACOG giving a ranged advantage over your team's iron sights.

Conclusion: My team should be able to find the black safe and my colored safe in the time it takes you to find your colored safe, since I'll arrive first and Sleuth's skills give me an edge. Your team will only be slightly ahead of mine in heading to your base, since I'll go to your base after equipping from the black safe, whereas you'll leave as soon as you see that I've found it. The riddles will buy you a few minutes, so you should be roughly a mile ahead of my team, out of reasonable range.

@Esquire

I agree that with 2 characters running ahead, your team have a slight advantage on the search, but they'll be only two in a pretty huge junkyard, and both will be very tired because of the run. It's doesn't necessary mean that they'll find first.

Correct me if i'm wrong but it's looks like your team will search for the black box first?

I think we can presume that the black box will be harder to find, because that is only one for both team fight for. In that case, will be more difficult for 2 tired members of tour team find. Even so, if you find first, they two don't have enough skill to open it quickly, depending on the arrival of Sleuth. But I stand in the opinion that they wont find the box before both teams arrive.

About Sleuth's power of observation and deduction, I'm sure that Tattoo is at the same level that him, so both team will be even on that. None get advantage.

I can see that both team will find the colored box first then anyone find the black one. It's the most probable. And as we can't say who would find first, we can agree that they'll find at the same moment.

I guess both teams will be on the run to find the last box. And as I point out, my team will be on stealth mode, so they will see the members of your team, while won't be seen by yours, that's give and strategic advantage to us. So we can just ambush your team when they search for the box, using the rocks that we picked, my team can deceive yours to look in the wrong direction and take one by one out while they are distract (ambush can be set by Spartan, German, Hangmam). And if you find the box first, it's a obvious strategy to take out the one that is cracking the riddles, what will cost much more time for your team open the box.

And I must say, "The Omega" isn't showing any concern with "The Accidents", they are just going on there looking for the boxes without looking for enemies or else, what make much easier to my team just take them out, giving enough time to my team to pick up the box and head to my base. I can see that happening more time than not.

And you can be sure that if "The Omega", for some reason, open and manage to keep the black box (that's two different things), "The Accidents" will fight for it, giving us possibility to take it from you or, in the worst scenario, we'll die in the junkyard (neutral ground) as respawn in our base, saving time and energy, once we won't have to walk to there, using that to create traps, preparing for the arrival of your team and we would be able to see your team coming, giving to you no surprise or advantage. But again, I see my team living the junkyard alive and with the black box more times than not.

Conclusion: Putting two of your teammates running ahead won't give you any consistent advantage, just living them more tired than others. The lack of concern and battle formation of your team will give my team the best position to ambush and attack yours, making it easy to access the black box and go to blue base without problem.

OBS: English isn't my first idiom, sorry if that is something weird in my writing.

@wbr17 said:

I agree that with 2 characters running ahead, your team have a slight advantage on the search, but they'll be only two in a pretty huge junkyard, and both will be very tired because of the run. It's doesn't necessary mean that they'll find first.

I don't agree that they'll be very worn out at all. Again, Lookout can run at a full sprint for two minutes. That's at least olympic-caliber athleticism. He won't be sprinting here, he'll just be running easily. Your team is trying to take a more stealthy approach, and they're also held to the speed of their slowest member, I would assume Wrecker, because you're sticking together in formation.

Agent spent 7 minutes straight in a foot chase across a city, taking falls of 15 feet or more, smashing through walls, engaging in hand-to-hand combat, and culminating in a firefight with an entire embassy. Even after all that, he's not even breathing hard. I don't see him tiring, either.

Correct me if i'm wrong but it's looks like your team will search for the black box first?

It doesn't matter which one they're looking for. If they come across either the black or the red box, they'll open it.

I think we can presume that the black box will be harder to find, because that is only one for both team fight for.

I don't think that's a valid assumption. The scenario says no such thing, and I would think that the time it takes to solve the riddles is handicap enough to compensate for either team being able to open it. But I'll ask Lunacyde, just to make sure.

In that case, will be more difficult for 2 tired members of tour team find. Even so, if you find first, they two don't have enough skill to open it quickly, depending on the arrival of Sleuth. But I stand in the opinion that they wont find the box before both teams arrive.

I still don't think they'll be tired, and both Bourne and Bond have shown to be extremely intelligent. Lookout has tricked various intelligence agencies and used his intelligence to track and infiltrate and uncover the truth about his past. Agent has tracked down crime lords without the help of MI6 and displayed lots of cleverness in the way he approaches situations. Either one of them should be able to open the safe, easily with both of them together.

About Sleuth's power of observation and deduction, I'm sure that Tattoo is at the same level that him, so both team will be even on that. None get advantage.

Does Scofield have any intelligence, observation, or deduction feats to compete with Sherlock's? Holmes has unraveled the criminal empire of the greatest mastermind in the history of crime, and his powers of observation are nothing short of remarkable. In Game of Shadows, he claims to see "everything. That is my curse." And when he meets Mycroft, he is able to notice from his brother's bearing something as obscure as the fact that Mycroft's cab had a damaged wheel. A good example of his powers of observation and deduction are shown in his first meeting with Watson's bride-to-be.

I can see that both team will find the colored box first then anyone find the black one. It's the most probable. And as we can't say who would find first, we can agree that they'll find at the same moment.

I disagree. As I've said above, I don't see why the black box should be hard to find. And with your team limited to the marching pace of a stealthy preteen, Agent and Lookout should have several minutes with the scene before you even begin to approach. The rest of my team will arrive at least as soon as yours, and Sleuth's powers of observation go far beyond mere strategic intelligence. For these reasons, I believe that I should have a substantial advantage in finding the boxes first.

I guess both teams will be on the run to find the last box. And as I point out, my team will be on stealth mode, so they will see the members of your team, while won't be seen by yours, that's give and strategic advantage to us.

My characters are all well-versed in stealth and detection. Sleuth's observational powers have already been mentioned, but Vamp is a career spy while Agent and Lookout have spent their careers following others and detecting those following them. Striker's template, Mad Dog, was the most effective of a crimelord's guards. Added to this, some of your characters, such as Spartan, have never showed any degree of proficiency in stealth. And to top it all off, you'll have to approach the junkyard through miles of open space, where Agent and Lookout will see you coming. Stealth will be of little consequence here.

So we can just ambush your team when they search for the box, using the rocks that we picked, my team can deceive yours to look in the wrong direction and take one by one out while they are distract (ambush can be set by Spartan, German, Hangmam).

My team will never be split up into more than two groups, so isolating them won't really be an option. If you try to attack before we find weapons, you're not going to fair very well. All 5 of my characters are excellent at hand-to-hand combat. In fact, I would argue that, when it comes to pure h2h, all five of my characters are superior to all of yours. The only one I'm not sure of is Tatoo, since I haven't watched Prison Break. I haven't been able to find any impressive hand-to-hand showings in my research, though, so I would be surprised if he's better than my characters. Spartan is probably your biggest threat, but all of his good showings are when he's armed. Lookout and Striker are two of the best hand-fighters in any movie, and Sleuth has movereading and impressive knowledge of martial arts and the body's weakpoints. Agent is a brutal combatant with some very solid showings, and Vamp's agility will give her an edge in h2h against your team.

If we've both opened our colored boxes, I should still have the combat advantage. Agent, Lookout, and Vamp are all three excellent marksmen, and Sherlock can hold his own. Armed melee combat does nothing to dampen my team's close-quarters advantage, either. In a straight fight, I believe I have a definite advantage.

And if you find the box first, it's a obvious strategy to take out the one that is cracking the riddles, what will cost much more time for your team open the box.

Agent, Lookout, and Sleuth should all be able to open the box, but they'll hardly stand around trying to solve riddles if your team attacks.

And I must say, "The Omega" isn't showing any concern with "The Accidents", they are just going on there looking for the boxes without looking for enemies or else, what make much easier to my team just take them out, giving enough time to my team to pick up the box and head to my base. I can see that happening more time than not.

As I said above, my entire team is used to people trying to ambush or attack them. They all have the experience and knowledge to detect any attempts you make to sneak up on them, and the're only aided by the open terrain. Since I have advantages in finding the boxes, I think it's more likely that my team will be armed when they come across your unarmed team, making yours the one that will be taken out.

And you can be sure that if "The Omega", for some reason, open and manage to keep the black box (that's two different things), "The Accidents" will fight for it, giving us possibility to take it from you or,

If I get the box open, it's a matter of seconds to divide up the contents. You might come across my team while they're still solving the riddles, but as I've already said, I expect my team to perform far better than yours in a combat scenario.

So I still believe that I have the advantage in finding boxes, and if we come across each other during our searches, I would argue strongly for my team to be the victors in a fight.

OBS: English isn't my first idiom, sorry if that is something weird in my writing.

Your English seems great to me!

@Esquire

I agree that with 2 characters running ahead, your team have a slight advantage on the search, but they'll be only two in a pretty huge junkyard, and both will be very tired because of the run. It's doesn't necessary mean that they'll find first.

I don't agree that they'll be very worn out at all. Again, Lookout can run at a full sprint for two minutes. That's at least olympic-caliber athleticism. He won't be sprinting here, he'll just be running easily. Your team is trying to take a more stealthy approach, and they're also held to the speed of their slowest member, I would assume Wrecker, because you're sticking together in formation.

Agent spent 7 minutes straight in a foot chase across a city, taking falls of 15 feet or more, smashing through walls, engaging in hand-to-hand combat, and culminating in a firefight with an entire embassy. Even after all that, he's not even breathing hard. I don't see him tiring, either.

Where did you get that "run at full sprint for two minutes" thing? And for the video above, it's a great scene but it's not a "7 minutes straight foot chase", we can see him using vehicles (regular or improvised) 4 times, if i did the right math, and some time he just walk. Yes, he climbs, jumps, fights but that's a different kind of workout than running under 110°F heat (but it's a good show of stamina). And, for the map that was given to us (we need to read images also), both teams wakes in the middle of our respective sides, what make a 5 miles run to the junkyard, so they would probably run for 1 hour under a 110°F heat. Only that make impossible for them to search in their full capacity (I'm not saying that they'll be incapable or helpless). And backing at the map, in given scale, the junkyard may measure 3 x 2 miles, loaded with cars, that's give to us a lot o places to look. But again, i give to you that small advantage, but we can't tell that every time will be the decisive factor.

Correct me if i'm wrong but it's looks like your team will search for the black box first?

It doesn't matter which one they're looking for. If they come across either the black or the red box, they'll open it.

I think we can presume that the black box will be harder to find, because that is only one for both team fight for.

I don't think that's a valid assumption. The scenario says no such thing, and I would think that the time it takes to solve the riddles is handicap enough to compensate for either team being able to open it. But I'll ask Lunacyde, just to make sure.

I think it's valid, because it's the one that we have to fight for, one box and two teams. Generally they do that to spice up the game. But, yeah, better @Lunacyde answer it.

and both Bourne and Bond have shown to be extremely intelligent. Lookout has tricked various intelligence agencies and used his intelligence to track and infiltrate and uncover the truth about his past. Agent has tracked down crime lords without the help of MI6 and displayed lots of cleverness in the way he approaches situations. Either one of them should be able to open the safe, easily with both of them together.

We know that are different kinds of intelligence, what you point out there don't appear to be the one necessary to resolve Riddler's riddles. They'll need Sleuth help.

About Sleuth's power of observation and deduction, I'm sure that Tattoo is at the same level that him, so both team will be even on that. None get advantage.

Does Scofield have any intelligence, observation, or deduction feats to compete with Sherlock's? Holmes has unraveled the criminal empire of the greatest mastermind in the history of crime, and his powers of observation are nothing short of remarkable. In Game of Shadows, he claims to see "everything. That is my curse." And when he meets Mycroft, he is able to notice from his brother's bearing something as obscure as the fact that Mycroft's cab had a damaged wheel. A good example of his powers of observation and deduction are shown in his first meeting with Watson's bride-to-be.

Well, we can't take an character claim as the truth all the times. For the other hand, It's clinically stated that Scofield has a genius intellect, also he has low latent inhibition what makes his brain more open to incoming stimuli of the surrounding environment, that's gives to him a extremely accurate instincts due to the sheer level of thought, processing and logical connection when faces with a stimulus or multiple stimuli, so he immediately process every aspect and detail of the perimeter. So, he state of mind plus his high IQ make him a creative genius. And about feats, he not only escaped two different prisons, running away from the feds while look his back because of the psychopath sociopath, killers, mob rulers that were with him, but also managed to defeat an nationwide secret agency, that even involved the vice president of the USA, also capturing the criminals that escaped with him and cleaning his brothers name. During the 4 seasons he was held at gun point or put under complex situations when he always showed capacity to make very quickly decisions, even under pressure, and his improvisation skill. So they may be equal, even though Scofield has better feats, but I'll point out that he doesn't use it in h2h.

I guess both teams will be on the run to find the last box. And as I point out, my team will be on stealth mode, so they will see the members of your team, while won't be seen by yours, that's give and strategic advantage to us.

My characters are all well-versed in stealth and detection. Sleuth's observational powers have already been mentioned, but Vamp is a career spy while Agent and Lookout have spent their careers following others and detecting those following them. Striker's template, Mad Dog, was the most effective of a crimelord's guards. Added to this, some of your characters, such as Spartan, have never showed any degree of proficiency in stealth. And to top it all off, you'll have to approach the junkyard through miles of open space, where Agent and Lookout will see you coming. Stealth will be of little consequence here.

Can you show me any on screen feats of Vamp and Striker using stealth and detecting hidden enemies? I didn't see "The Raid" and "Avengers" but in my research I didn't see them doing nothing like that. While Sleuth has observation skills, can he be stealth (It's two different skills)? And I point the stealth factor out because you hadn't post nothing in that direction, your team being stealth or aware of possible attacks, make them vulnerable to ambush and easy to target.

Backing once more to the battlefield, there are piles of cars that will cover my team arrive and approach. And about my team stealth prowess: German hided from a great alien hunter with great high-tech equipment; Hangman went undercover or infiltrate places as Moscow Kremlin, Vatican and all kind of high secure bases; Tattoo hided from feds, secret agency, infiltrated secure buildings, walked free in prisons without been noticed; Wrecker is all about hiding and running avoiding being seen and caught, and his small size make it easier to hide; and Spartan doesn't have any screen shot that prove his stealth-ability but I can argue that one of his test in is teens years was to survive into the wild, so we can presume that he needed to have some degree of stealthiness to survive. So until now I have more reasons to believe that my team has a higher degree of stealthiness than yours.

If you try to attack before we find weapons, you're not going to fair very well. All 5 of my characters are excellent at hand-to-hand combat. In fact, I would argue that, when it comes to pure h2h, all five of my characters are superior to all of yours. The only one I'm not sure of is Tatoo, since I haven't watched Prison Break. I haven't been able to find any impressive hand-to-hand showings in my research, though, so I would be surprised if he's better than my characters. Spartan is probably your biggest threat, but all of his good showings are when he's armed. Lookout and Striker are two of the best hand-fighters in any movie, and Sleuth has movereading and impressive knowledge of martial arts and the body's weakpoints. Agent is a brutal combatant with some very solid showings, and Vamp's agility will give her an edge in h2h against your team.

Wrecker and Tattoo are really non-factor in straight h2h combat, but we know that it's not a fight tournament, so all the members of the two teams won't be facing each other at the same time, both can use the environment to avoid confronts like this, and as I stated before, my team will be in battle position covering weak points, none will be helpless. I agree that Lookout, Striker and Agent are pretty good fighters. Well, for the rest, the feats on screen are not that impressive, in "Iron man 2" Vamp has a great acrobatic fight scene, but was against few unimpressive guards, the kind of guard the was taken by Tony Stark driver, in "Avengers" she take out one old man e two thugs what isn't much deal, fight a very proficient archer that doesn't show much h2h skills while he is mind controlled doesn't make the case for her either; about Sleuth, he didn't face any proficient h2h fighter, were tagged by people that show none combat training, and for him do that trick of playing with the probabilities, it's necessary that he fight with the enemy first, some time and concentration, also, he can't predict what he doesn't see, if he faces my team fighters they will end to fight in a moment.

Now let me talk about my team h2h skills: Hangman has shown great fighting prowess, using an elusive, trickery, mid-ranged combat style as well submission, the thing is that he's underrated because in his franchise he use guns to kill, and hands to take down and arrest the bad guys, because the audience get more excited with some brutal and direct fighting style, they wrongly think that isn't that good, I also need to mention his extreme pain tolerance and focus in fight, once he fought while there was a device screwing his brain; Spartan is a born warrior, since childhood he is learning combat, most armed but also unarmed, fighting with animals and adults while only a kid, also demonstrate great pain tolerance; German is an elite commando so he is trained in martial arts and knife combat, he's for sure the stronger person of this round, and the most impressive on screen feat of him is trading blows with a super strong alien (capable of lifting him with only one hand effortless), without been KOed, also tanking a laser hit, that's show his huge endurance, so won't be easy to take him down in a pure h2h combat, and his superior strength will really hurt your team. So, I don't see any of your team having a huge advantage over this three, the fight can go anyway, but I'll point out that looks like that Striker prefer to have a good fight before finish his enemies, what always give the chance to help arrive or an opponent to turn the odds against him, even more with this 3 that can resist a lot of pain.

If we've both opened our colored boxes, I should still have the combat advantage. Agent, Lookout, and Vamp are all three excellent marksmen, and Sherlock can hold his own. Armed melee combat does nothing to dampen my team's close-quarters advantage, either.

I said it all just to point that we're not getting stomp in h2h, but I need to say that it isn't "The Accidents" approach, they'll most pick up their equipment and storm your team. I don't remember of seem Agent, Striker and Lookout using flash-bangs, gas grenade or an grenade, so I doubt that they'll use it, if so, not as the same proficient as my team. I doubt at Sleuth and Striker shooting skills, will probably chance nothing to your advantage with this, I could also point that shooting with pistols is very different form shooting with your fist, is there any image of her shooting with a regular gun? And about explosives and melee weapons what are their showed skills, they have countered any master in armed melee combat as good as Spartan?

My team will never be split up into more than two groups, so isolating them won't really be an option.

Actually, all of your team members has shown to prefer work alone than in group, they are featless in teamwork, Agent is too cocky to ask for backup, Lookout doesn't trust in anyone, Sleuth is to arrogant and pretentious to think that needs help, I only see Striker fighting alone, even with more than one good fighter against him and Vamp has shown little teamwork. On the other hand, all of my team members has shown consistently teamwork, unless Wrecker but he never shows problem about someone helping him. As we are in a team confrontation and not a sequence of single fights that's a huge advantage to my favor.

When my team play in group they storm like that:

Hangman tactical intelligence, marksmanship skills, teamwork, stealth, equipment knowledge

German teamwork, stealth, marksmanship skill, tactical intelligence, endurance, equipment knowledge, improvisation

Spartan tactical intelligence, teamwork, prowess in armed melee combat, agility, brutality, fatality, improvisation skill

And I must say, "The Omega" isn't showing any concern with "The Accidents", they are just going on there looking for the boxes without looking for enemies or else, what make much easier to my team just take them out, giving enough time to my team to pick up the box and head to my base. I can see that happening more time than not.

As I said above, my entire team is used to people trying to ambush or attack them. They all have the experience and knowledge to detect any attempts you make to sneak up on them, and the're only aided by the open terrain. Since I have advantages in finding the boxes, I think it's more likely that my team will be armed when they come across your unarmed team, making yours the one that will be taken out.

And you can be sure that if "The Omega", for some reason, open and manage to keep the black box (that's two different things), "The Accidents" will fight for it, giving us possibility to take it from you or,

If I get the box open, it's a matter of seconds to divide up the contents. You might come across my team while they're still solving the riddles, but as I've already said, I expect my team to perform far better than yours in a combat scenario.

So I still believe that I have the advantage in finding boxes, and if we come across each other during our searches, I would argue strongly for my team to be the victors in a fight.

Quoting this just to point out that all over the debate your team looks overconfident, showing no worry about the other team, that's can be a backfire, and all of my team is really into doing impossible things and succeed even been the underdog. (I'm not saying you're thinking that I'm a lame debater, it's just the attitude of your team, what really suits their characters).

So, my superior teamwork, superior stealth, strategic intelligence, familiarity with the equipment and humble/aware attitude give me the advantage in the battlefield. So we are going to leave with our weapons and the black box to our base while you respawn in yours.

OBS: English isn't my first idiom, sorry if that is something weird in my writing.

Your English seems great to me!

Thanks, and I'm using an orthographic corrector, but it can be tricky, so keep looking and call my attention for anything wrong. I'm using it to exercise my english too.

@wbr17:

The black safe is not necessarily harder to find other than the fact it is black instead of bright red or blue. However I think it would be foolish to try and open the black box first because A.) It takes much longer to open than the colored box. 5 minutes is a long time in this kind of situation, and 5 minutes is how long it would take someone who is both a genius and has shown highly skilled riddle or code-breaking skills before. Others will take longer. By the time you would have opened this box the other team could likely have opened their own and be armed to the teeth ready to take you down. Also there are less actual weapons in this box, and more other gadgets or accessories to weapons. I think the colored box is a much more logical choice.

@Lunacyde

Thanks for the answer. I agree with all that you said, thinking on it that i asked Esquire if his/her team was looking for the black first, that would give me advantage and because of that I said that my team won't try to open it in junkyard but only in our base, it's safer, while Esquire put that they will try to open right their, living them vulnerable to attacks. But I really would prefer that you didn't point it out right now because we're still in a debate, and looks like that Esquire doesn't think on that.

@wbr17: Well, he can read it lol, you just posted it in the thread. I don't know how realistic carrying an adamantium safe 10 miles back to safety is...

@wbr17 said:

Where did you get that "run at full sprint for two minutes" thing?

Jason tells his girlfriend that he can in Bourne Identity. I can't find the video, unfortunately.

And for the video above, it's a great scene but it's not a "7 minutes straight foot chase", we can see him using vehicles (regular or improvised) 4 times, if i did the right math, and some time he just walk. Yes, he climbs, jumps, fights but that's a different kind of workout than running under 110°F heat (but it's a good show of stamina).

He's naturally not going to have scenes where he just runs in a straight line for hours. I posted it because he does an awful lot of physical exertion and isn't even breathing hard at the end. He's got very good stamina.

And, for the map that was given to us (we need to read images also), both teams wakes in the middle of our respective sides, what make a 5 miles run to the junkyard, so they would probably run for 1 hour under a 110°F heat. Only that make impossible for them to search in their full capacity (I'm not saying that they'll be incapable or helpless).

The world record for running 5 miles is about 21 minutes. Lookout seems to be an Olympic-level athlete, and Agent's not far behind. If they run it in an hour, that's only about 30% of their top speed. It really won't tire them out much at all, and I think it's going to have very little effect on how well they can search. Especially since looking through the junkyard won't be terribly hard work. It might take a while, but it's mostly going to involve jogging and some rummaging.

And backing at the map, in given scale, the junkyard may measure 3 x 2 miles, loaded with cars, that's give to us a lot o places to look. But again, i give to you that small advantage, but we can't tell that every time will be the decisive factor.

I don't think that it would be a decisive edge every time. Since the safes are placed randomly, I could find them in the first 5 minutes of looking, or I could find none in the first hour. If this match happened 10 times, it would be different every time. But having an edge, however small, still tilts the odds in my favor.

We know that are different kinds of intelligence, what you point out there don't appear to be the one necessary to resolve Riddler's riddles. They'll need Sleuth help.

Sleuth is certainly far better suited, but reassembling Lookout's past is easily as difficult a riddle as anything Riddler is going to come up with. It might take them a while, but Agent and Lookout could certainly make headway on opening the safe, even if they find it before Sleuth gets to the junkyard.

Can you show me any on screen feats of Vamp and Striker using stealth and detecting hidden enemies?

Striker was able to find Jaka, one of the heroes of The Raid, and a group that he was trying to protect. He then killed Jaka in hand-to-hand. Vamp has been trained as a spy and assassin since her childhood, and she's referred to as extremely skilled in such activities several times. Although she almost never had cause to use stealth in the movies, she's showed excellent awareness of her surroundings, taking down dozens of Chitauri warriors attacking from different angles and defeating several guards coming from different directions. And she was able to use stealth to seemingly appear right behind Hawkeye at the beginning of their fight. 0:18 (Sorry for the terrible-quality video, it's all I can find.)

While Sleuth has observation skills, can he be stealth (It's two different skills)?

Sleuth has displayed a fair amount of stealth, actually. He used "urban camouflage" twice in Game of Shadows, which made him effectively invisible. He shadowed a couple of people undetected in the first movie, and did it again at the start of Game of Shadows. He's also ambushed multiple people, so his stealth abilities are well documented.

And I point the stealth factor out because you hadn't post nothing in that direction, your team being stealth or aware of possible attacks, make them vulnerable to ambush and easy to target. And about my team stealth prowess: German hided from a great alien hunter with great high-tech equipment; Hangman went undercover or infiltrate places as Moscow Kremlin, Vatican and all kind of high secure bases; Tattoo hided from feds, secret agency, infiltrated secure buildings, walked free in prisons without been noticed; Wrecker is all about hiding and running avoiding being seen and caught, and his small size make it easier to hide; and Spartan doesn't have any screen shot that prove his stealth-ability but I can argue that one of his test in is teens years was to survive into the wild, so we can presume that he needed to have some degree of stealthiness to survive. So until now I have more reasons to believe that my team has a higher degree of stealthiness than yours.

I thought it natural to assume that both teams would be watching out for the other, since they know that there are enemies present. And I don't think it's at all out of the question for your team to be detected, even if they're being stealth. Sleuth, for example, has detected an assassin hiding in the rafters by smelling him. Agent has avoided an attempted ambush and killed the attacker, even though he was unarmed against a knife. This is also a good demonstration of his hand-to-hand skills.

Even with the cars, there's nothing much more than a meter high to hide behind. Other than Wrecker, your team will have to move much slower if they want to stay hidden. So considering the relative openness of the location, along with the fact that everyone knows there are enemies around, and coupled with the experience my team has in combat situations, I don't think they'll get ambushed very easily.

Regarding effectiveness at stealth, Black Widow has more indication of being stealthy than Leonidas does, since she's been an assassin for more than a decade. Agent and Lookout both excel in ambushing and infiltration. Lookout has gotten into CIA headquarters and infiltrated the Treadstone building without being detected. Agent has ambushed "Mr White," a high-ranking member of a secret criminal organization, while at his secluded, gated mansion. Sleuth is good at stealth, as I've said above. The only weak link is Striker, who has little in the way of stealth feats. He prefers to look his enemy in the eye before he kills them.

Well, for the rest, the feats on screen are not that impressive, in "Iron man 2" Vamp has a great acrobatic fight scene, but was against few unimpressive guards, the kind of guard the was taken by Tony Stark driver, in "Avengers" she take out one old man e two thugs what isn't much deal, fight a very proficient archer that doesn't show much h2h skills while he is mind controlled doesn't make the case for her either;

She's never struggled in h2h, either. She effortlessly dominated the guards and displayed impressive versatility, and she also one-shotted Tony's boxing instructor. The fact that she could take down mobsters while tied to a chair speaks to her ability to improvise, as well as again demonstrating her acrobatics. And against Hawkeye, the mind-control never seemed to dampen his abilities. And although he has few h2h feats, he did kill a couple of Chitauri without using his bow. Vamp was also able to kill several Chitauri up close with knives and hand-to-hand skill. So although she hasn't fought any hugely skilled opponents, Vamp has also never struggled very much to win a fight. She's very versatile, and her acrobatic fighting style is something that your team hasn't faced before. She should be able to give even your more skilled characters a very good fight one-on-one.

about Sleuth, he didn't face any proficient h2h fighter, were tagged by people that show none combat training, and for him do that trick of playing with the probabilities, it's necessary that he fight with the enemy first, some time and concentration, also, he can't predict what he doesn't see, if he faces my team fighters they will end to fight in a moment.

Holmes has displayed his movereading ability without seeing his opponents fight even more often than he's used it after already engaging in combat. He's used it in an ambush of a guard in the first movie, a Cossack assassin who he'd never seen before in the second, and in his predictive battle with Moriarty, who he'd never faced in combat. He's used it only twice once the fight has already begun, once against the prizefighter who he subsequently demolished, and once against the group of attackers at the beginning of Game of Shadows. And even when he doesn't use his ability, he shows impressive fighting skill. He fought well against Dredger twice, despite being massively weaker, less durable, and smaller. He defeated several guards in disrupting Blackwood's sacrifice ritual, he fought well against the four attackers who he later used movereading against, and he fought effectively against the Cossack when defending the Gypsy fortune teller, even though the assassin had a knife during most of the fight. He's displayed sufficient skill to tangle with anyone on your team.

Now let me talk about my team h2h skills: Hangman has shown great fighting prowess, using an elusive, trickery, mid-ranged combat style as well submission, the thing is that he's underrated because in his franchise he use guns to kill, and hands to take down and arrest the bad guys, because the audience get more excited with some brutal and direct fighting style, they wrongly think that isn't that good, I also need to mention his extreme pain tolerance and focus in fight, once he fought while there was a device screwing his brain;

Hangman is a solid hand-to-hand fighter and a good shot, but he doesn't have the same level of h2h showings that Lookout, Agent, and Striker have. (Unless he has some good showing in Ghost Protocol, which I haven't seen yet.) The junkyard will supply Lookout with lots of toys to use as improvised weapons, making him even more effective. Agent has shown a similar penchant for using objects from his environment to help him. Hangman may be able to fight evenly with Sleuth and Vamp, but I haven't seen anything from him to indicate the level of skill my other three characters show.

Spartan is a born warrior, since childhood he is learning combat, most armed but also unarmed, fighting with animals and adults while only a kid, also demonstrate great pain tolerance; German is an elite commando so he is trained in martial arts and knife combat, he's for sure the stronger person of this round, and the most impressive on screen feat of him is trading blows with a super strong alien (capable of lifting him with only one hand effortless), without been KOed, also tanking a laser hit, that's show his huge endurance, so won't be easy to take him down in a pure h2h combat, and his superior strength will really hurt your team.

German and Spartan probably have a strength advantage over my team, I'll admit. But Spartan's feats are mostly slaughtering unskilled people while armed, and none of the Predators have ever shown much skill. They mostly win because they're stronger, tougher, and better armed. Although German fighting one is very impressive, he'll be up against a totally different kind of opponent when he fights my characters, since they rely on skill instead of brute force to win.

So, I don't see any of your team having a huge advantage over this three, the fight can go anyway, but I'll point out that looks like that Striker prefer to have a good fight before finish his enemies, what always give the chance to help arrive or an opponent to turn the odds against him, even more with this 3 that can resist a lot of pain.

Striker's love of fighting might be a little bit of a disadvantage here, but his sheer level of skill should let him compensate. His best feat is fighting two highly skilled combatants at the same time, and defeating them before he's taken down by an unpredictable piece of the environment. This is extremely impressive because his opponents are Rama, the hero of The Raid whose hand-to-hand feats include literally dozens of kills, even defeating four men armed with machetes while he was unarmed, and Andi, the only man who was able to capture Rama. And Striker was able to handle them both at the same time. This also shows amazing pain tolerance, as he keeps fighting effectively even after being stabbed in the throat.

I said it all just to point that we're not getting stomp in h2h, but I need to say that it isn't "The Accidents" approach, they'll most pick up their equipment and storm your team.

There are lots of ways this battle could play out. I would argue that my team will win if they can attack yours before either of us find weapons. If you attack with weapons, things will certainly be different. If you're totally armed and I have no weaponry, things will be difficult. Most of my characters have gone up against armed and gun-wielding opponents while unarmed, though, so I don't think you'd win every time even then. Vamp has dodged an arrow from Hawkeye and disarmed him, then beaten him even after he pulled a knife. Lookout has disarmed several opponents when they've had guns, and he's beaten several very skilled opponents when they've been using knives. Sleuth has disarmed two attackers when they had guns, and he's dodged fire at close range as well. He's also beaten four armed attackers at one time, and disarmed several other opponents throughout his fights. Agent has beaten several opponents with guns, and he's also beaten opponents with knives and even a sword while he was unarmed. So I don't think that your team would win every time, even if they were able to find weapons, find my team, and attack before my team could even find weapons.

I don't remember of seem Agent, Striker and Lookout using flash-bangs, gas grenade or an grenade, so I doubt that they'll use it, if so, not as the same proficient as my team.

Both Lookout and Agent have used various explosives a few times, although I can't think of any grenades specifically. Vamp has used flashbangs, though.

I doubt at Sleuth and Striker shooting skills, will probably chance nothing to your advantage with this, I could also point that shooting with pistols is very different form shooting with your fist, is there any image of her shooting with a regular gun?

Gallery

Sleuth has had a gun several times, and Striker had a gun in his first scene.

And about explosives and melee weapons what are their showed skills, they have countered any master in armed melee combat as good as Spartan?

Striker has only fought unarmed opponents, although his speed, agility, and pain tolerance should make him effective even against armed opponents. Sleuth has never fought anyone as skilled with weapons as Leonidas, but he's fought several opponents with bladed weapons and beaten them.

Actually, all of your team members has shown to prefer work alone than in group, they are featless in teamwork, Agent is too cocky to ask for backup,

Agent has worked with others quite a bit outside of combat situations, and he's fought alongside allies a couple of times, especially in Skyfall. He does most of his work alone, but he can work with others if he needs to.

Lookout doesn't trust in anyone,

But he's still worked with people throughout all three movies. He may not be the best team player, but he can be part of a team if he has to be.

Sleuth is to arrogant and pretentious to think that needs help,

This isn't accurate. In Game of Shadows, he engineered a huge plot to get Watson to help him, because he knew that he couldn't beat Moriarty on his own. He's arrogant, certainly, but he's smart enough to recognize when he needs help. And he's spent most of both movies working with others, from Watson to Irene to Simza to Mycroft.

I only see Striker fighting alone, even with more than one good fighter against him

Striker likes to challenge himself by fighting alone, but he also follows orders from his commander.

Vamp has shown little teamwork.

Although she didn't work with others in Iron Man 2, she spent a lot of Avengers working in a team. She fought alongside Captain America and Hawkeye during the end battle in Manhattan, and there was a lot of talk about missions that she and Hawkeye had done together. She's actually one of my best team players.

On the other hand, all of my team members has shown consistently teamwork, unless Wrecker but he never shows problem about someone helping him. As we are in a team confrontation and not a sequence of single fights that's a huge advantage to my favor.

Your team will work little more naturally together, I admit, but my characters have all worked with others, and are smart enough to know the value of helping each other in this sort of a situation.

So we are going to leave with our weapons and the black box to our base while you respawn in yours.

About the black box, I don't think it's at all a bad strategy to open it as soon as possible. If my team finds it, then Sleuth should be able to open it in pretty close to 5 minutes. He was able to figure out the code Moriarty was using in his red book, which is pretty much exactly the sort of intelligence needed here. He has repeatedly shown to be a genius, and if he has problems then Agent and Lookout will be around to help him.

Even if we say that it takes 6 minutes for him to crack it, that's not that long in this large a space. If we assume the junkyard is 3 miles across, it's going to take your team half an hour to cross the whole thing, so Sleuth should be able to open the safe before they find him. And if they do find him, then Striker, Vamp, and Sleuth can hold their own in h2h, maybe even win. And they'll certainly last long enough for Lookout and Agent to return, and then my team can beat yours.

Although there aren't as many weapons in the black safe, it will still let my team get a very good gun, communicators, explosives, and a melee weapon. It's not as good as the colored safe, but it will give me a big advantage compared to being unarmed.

If your team finds the safe, then they'll take the safe back to their base. This is a filled adamantium box large enough to hold a rifle and lots of other stuff. It's going to weigh at least 200 pounds. If your team takes it all the way to your base, you'll have two members gone for hours.

@Esquire

VIDEOS

No problem with the videos, when I ask "on screen" I want know if it was shown or it's a presumption. I know how hard it's find videos, my guys only have music tribute and stuffs like that =/

AGREEMENTS

We know that world records are established by people that train specifically in certain sport for years, everyday using the proper equipment and under specific conditions (weather, ground...). And world records aren't break or matched everyday. So, I'll give them at least 30+ minutes to arrive in the junkyard. But we already agreed that that's an small advantage that may or may not be decisive.

Another point of agreement is that my team is superior in teamwork, and that's is really important in the competition, a decisive factor. You point out some teamwork experience of your members but it's too little compared with my guys, we do that routinely, on field, while yours do it punctually and not always on field. And I still think that they'll struggle for the leader position or/and each of them will want to do things in their own therms, without asking for help.

BLACKBOX

We can't know how would be Riddler's puzzles, but if I'm not wrong (correct me if I'm) Lookout make people tell him the truth about him or menage to access information about it, so nothing to tricky to resolve, and I didn't see Agent resolving any mystery, also in his first movie he was deceived few times. It's more probable that both will try to crack the code separately, to see who is the best and stuff, and none will succeed. But Sleuth can resolve by his own, he won't let anyone help him, but fortunately he can do it alone.

But that's something important here, your team is willing to open it as soon as it's find it, so that will make some of them vulnerable to attacks. You said that Sleuth would open while Striker and Vamp protect him. To that they'll need to be close of each other, my team can flash-bang or smoke-grenade the area and storm them or just throw a regular grenade to blow them out, clearing my way to the black safe. The same can be done to the other two. I get the numbers on my favor here, and I had shown that my team use it regularly.

I had pointed out that they would bring the box to the base, but i forgot about the rifle, it's bigger than i thought, so i guess they can't do that, but if they find first they can just set a trap near the safe and an ambush and wait for your team come and take them down. The difference here is that your team don't care to try to open it with enemies around and mine will open it when they are sure that the area is totally clear. Once again my team shows awareness about the danger while yours shows lack of precaution.

STEALTH

About the stealth thing, Sleuth is stealthier than I fought but I still believe that my team is better skilled, while Spartan didn't show infiltration ability he has shown to master the ability to use the battlefield in his favor, so he won't be standing there, he will use the environment to protect and hide him e to go closer to enemies, on the other hand, Striker may walk straight looking and showing himself, trying to get a good fight. This phase of the confrontation is on junkyard, most of them have cars piled up, it's nothing like a parking lot, so my team team will have cover. And Wrecker can effortless crawl under the cars undetected (your team won't be looking every time under the cars, that would put them in a vulnerable position, easy target) and go close to put a knife in their foot or shoot their legs, making them bleed, feel pain and distract, giving opportunity to other finish the job.

It's important to say everything that they can/would do because it's part of the debate, if we don't do that it's better just put their names and let people vote.

FIGHTING

I wanted to show that German can tank a huge amount of damage, in the video he wasn't Koed by Predators punches and survived one laser blast that instant killed one commando elite soldier trespassing him, so he won't go down easy, so he can put down people that wasn't show much pain tolerance and much more fighting skills, I can see him taking down Vamp, Sleuth and giving a good fight against others that could be any way.

Hangman is always underrated in fighting skills just because he use a different style, in his movies he had shown different fight techniques, and agile, elusive style, with submissions, has tanked a immense pain, showed a lot of concentration, stealth attacks and great comeback feats, he never stays down. He also fight against armed enemies and used improvised weapons. The thing is that people prefer other fighting styles so think that he is worst. I'm pretty sure that no one in your team faced someone fighting like him, he can flashkick like Guille of Street Fighter lol. My prediction to him is the same of German, but Hangman is better than him.

Fighting between cars (experience in battleground) while trying to get a device (the same case here).

Fighting while a device screws his brain, pain tolerance, focus, will power, keep coming

Disarm enemy with knife, pain tolerance, h2h skills

Stealth in a open terrain, sneaky attack, fight armed enemy

Spartan is the best close combatant here, if he has his melee weapon (or an improvised one, he has shown that) he can take each one of your team, one by one, he is King of War in a country that live to battle, he is brutal, deadly, smart and can handle bunch of pain. He can't be compared with no one that your guys had confronted, he is in a whole different level. And in the video that i provided before, he was fighting the elite member of King Xerxes army, they are clearly not normal humans, and we know that his empire was enormous and powerful, so they weren't nothing like unskilled combatant.

I still not impressed with Sleuth and Vamp, they didn't fight any great skilled fighter, so nothing make me think that they can win my fighters. Sleuth was tagged more than one time by unexpressed fighters and he can't predict everything, I his fight with Moryat he couldn't predict Watson. I guess that Striker and Spartan would like to fight each other, but we can't say that will happen (just a fun note).

But as I said before, my team won't be looking for this kind of battle, they'll apply the best strategy.

WEAPONS & EQUIPMENT

Well, I can show you images of Wrecker and Tattoo using guns but that won't prove that they'll be useful in this battle, and the same I say about Striker and Sleuth, they'll be non-factors in shooting confrontation, this four will only be distractions and I don't remember to see Vamp using any regular weapon (pistol, rifles...), in that case we can't assume that she is an excellent shooter, different kind of guns are different to use, need practice to master them. Spartan is master in melee weapons, German and Hangman use this weapons and equipment in regular base. I think my team more used with them, giving us an edge. I had shown before Hangman using equipment and shooting, I think he is the better mid-range shooter of this battle, because he shows consistent precision, shooting in-motion, hit high speed targets and use of different kinds of guns, and he also dodge bullets.

Shooting between cars (experience like our debate)

Retrieving device during gunfire (another experience equal to our case)

FINISHING

While your team is anxiously looking to open the black box, my team is willing to put them down first, that's combined with my superior teamwork, better use of equipment, and cautious positioning will ensure our victory.

Now, I think we can move on to next phase: debate what could happen if you take the black box and what could happen if I take it. It's ok for you? I think we cover everything here...

@wbr17 said:

BLACKBOX

We can't know how would be Riddler's puzzles, but if I'm not wrong (correct me if I'm) Lookout make people tell him the truth about him or menage to access information about it, so nothing to tricky to resolve,

Yes and no. There was certainly a lot of interrogation and finding out what people knew, but he still had to piece together who to ask, where to go next, how to find them, and what all of the things he learned add up to. I think both he and Agent have the raw intelligence to open the box eventually, but it would be closer to 15 minutes for Agent and 10 for Lookout, rather than around 5 for Sleuth.

But that's something important here, your team is willing to open it as soon as it's find it, so that will make some of them vulnerable to attacks. You said that Sleuth would open while Striker and Vamp protect him. To that they'll need to be close of each other, my team can flash-bang or smoke-grenade the area and storm them or just throw a regular grenade to blow them out, clearing my way to the black safe.

I don't really agree with this. If your team is around, Sleuth is more likely to notice them than they are to notice him. Tattoo might be as good at noticing people, but Sleuth has amazing senses. He's detected an assassin by smell, and he's also got fantastic hearing, as demonstrated when he hears the individual conversations of everyone in a restaurant while waiting for Watson to arrive. Add the fact that he's an absolute master at seeing details, and I very much doubt that your team will get close enough to flashbang mine without being detected. And if your team has found their colored safe, odd are that my team has found mine and we're both armed. In armed close combat, I still have the advantage. Neither Tattoo nor Wrecker will do much in a fight, so it's pretty much three against three. Sleuth, Vamp, and Striker all have experience against multiple opponents as well, so the small advantage of numbers won't mean much. Lookout and Agent will come running as soon as the fighting starts, and I highly doubt your team can beat all three of my characters before backup arrives. Even if you do, a few of your team will get taken down and most will be wounded, so my two best fighters should be able to finish off the rest and then get the black safe open while everyone is respawning.

if [my team] finds it first they can just set a trap near the safe and an ambush and wait for your team come and take them down. The difference here is that your team don't care to try to open it with enemies around and mine will open it when they are sure that the area is totally clear. Once again my team shows awareness about the danger while yours shows lack of precaution.

Although my team will certainly be less cautious than yours, I think my characters have the skills to warrant it. Sleuth will have no trouble noticing traps around the safe, for example, and if I'm trying to open the safe, he should still be able to detect attackers. With Vamp and Striker around, I really think all three can at least hold your team off long enough for the rest of my team to arrive. My team is less cautious by nature, but I don't think they need to be as cautious.

STEALTH

I would say that my team is close to yours in stealth skill, but I do think that yours is a lot more likely to use their stealth skills here. Striker will certainly be looking for a fight, that's what he lives for. But he should be able to take down any one of your team, and even if he eventually gets killed, I planned to have him return and guard my base, anyway. Bourne is a pretty cautious character, actually, and he'll be very alert for your team, just like Sleuth. Vamp and Bond are a little less cautious, but they're both smart enough to know not to just run around without looking for attackers. Striker is really the only one who wouldn't worry about your team and staying hidden, but because of what he's supposed to do I don't think that hurts my team.

I wanted to show that German can tank a huge amount of damage, so he can put down people that wasn't show much pain tolerance and much more fighting skills, I can see him taking down Vamp, Sleuth and giving a good fight against others that could be any way.

FIGHTING

My team all has very good pain tolerance. Striker fought well after being stabbed in the throat, Lookout has been shot and beaten up and kept fighting, Agent has been tortured, poisoned, fallen from great heights, and still kept going. Sleuth was willing to be tortured by Moriarty just to complete a plan, and he's taken some pretty good beatings and gone on to win. Vamp got beaten up pretty badly by the aliens in Avengers and still went on to save the day at the end of the fight, and even more impressively she was able to take a hit from the Hulk when he was angry, and still be in good enough shape afterwards to beat Hawkeye in a fight. (Watch from 1:00 to the end)

So all of my team is very tough, too. And with German, I don't remember him seeming very fast. He was more of a big strong fighter, but Vamp's fighting style relies on flipping around and avoiding people. German will have a hard time even hitting her, since he's never faced anyone with so much acrobatic skill. Vamp would have a hard time beating him, too, but if she can cut him with her knife while avoiding his attacks, she can wear him out eventually. Although I could see him winning, too. It would be a close fight, since he's a lot stronger than she is.

Hangman is always underrated in fighting skills just because he use a different style, in his movies he had shown different fight techniques, and agile, elusive style, with submissions, has tanked a immense pain, showed a lot of concentration, stealth attacks and great comeback feats, he never stays down. He also fight against armed enemies and used improvised weapons. I'm pretty sure that no one in your team faced someone fighting like him, he can flashkick like Guille of Street Fighter lol. My prediction to him is the same of German, but Hangman is better than him.

Hangman is very good. I think his toughness will help him a lot. I would say he can probably beat Vamp and Sleuth most of the time, but I don't think he's as good as Lookout or Striker, and I think Agent would probably win against Hangman more times than he lost. Lookout is a very smart fighter, and he's not only tough and skilled, he's very good at improvising. He's fought off an armed attacker by using a rolled-up newspaper, and when an assassin comes after him with gun and a knife, he grabs a pen and uses that as a weapon. A junkyard will give him all sorts of opportunities for using improvised weapons, in addition to his great skill. He shows good agility, skill, and he doesn't hesitate to break his attacker's knee and elbow at the end of the fight. He's brutal and tough, a hard combination to beat. (Fight is over at 1:50)

Striker's speed in combat in unrivaled by anyone in the match. He's very quick and he has no trouble hurting his enemies, even when they're wearing body armor. He's very skilled at attacking and blocking, and he uses a very versatile martial art, Silat, combining punches, kicks, elbows, knees, joint locks, and throws. He might not be quite as good as Guille from Street Fighter, but he still has a nice flip kick at 0:54, lol.

Agent is probably the closest to Hangman in skill, but his inventiveness and his tendency to kill quickly will be a big advantage. Even when he's unarmed he can take down people armed with guns, and here he also wins a close-quarters fight against someone with a machete, even though he's unarmed.

Spartan is the best close combatant here, if he has his melee weapon (or an improvised one, he has shown that) he can take each one of your team, one by one, he is King of War in a country that live to battle, he is brutal, deadly, smart and can handle bunch of pain. He can't be compared with no one that your guys had confronted, he is in a whole different level.

Spartan is good, very good. But he's not unbeatable. He's used to fighting with a shield to defend, which he doesn't have in this battle, and he also doesn't face people as fast as my characters. Vamp is extremely agile and acrobatic, Striker is unbelievably quick, and both Lookout and Agent fight very fast. Sleuth always disarms the opponents he faces, and I would argue that he has a better chance against Leonidas than he does against Hangman. Leonidas is strong and tough and brutal, but he really only fights in one basic style. It works very well, but it's predictable. Sleuth is good enough at predicting that he might be able to get around Spartan's attack and take him down with his knowledge of weak points. But Spartan would put up a very good fight against anyone, and he has a chance of winning every fight, no matter which of my team he goes against.

WEAPONS & EQUIPMENT

Well, I can show you images of Wrecker and Tattoo using guns but that won't prove that they'll be useful in this battle, and the same I say about Striker and Sleuth, they'll be non-factors in shooting confrontation, this four will only be distractions and I don't remember to see Vamp using any regular weapon (pistol, rifles...), in that case we can't assume that she is an excellent shooter, different kind of guns are different to use, need practice to master them.

Have Wrecker and Tattoo ever shot guns in combat? Sleuth actually uses a gun a couple of times in the first movie. He's not as good as Lookout or Agent or Hangman, but he's got enough experience to help out in a gunfight. Striker never used his gun in The Raid, but he at least carried one. I wouldn't say he'll do much here, though. Vamp uses pistols quite a bit in Avengers, though. She shoots lots of aliens and makes a couple of nice shots earlier in the movie, and she's also shown to have a lot of experience with guns in a couple of videos showing her and Hawkeye doing old missions. She's got a lot of skill. I'd put her below German and Hangman, but above the rest of your team in shooting skill.

Spartan is master in melee weapons, German and Hangman use this weapons and equipment in regular base. I think my team more used with them, giving us an edge. I had shown before Hangman using equipment and shooting, I think he is the better mid-range shooter of this battle, because he shows consistent precision, shooting in-motion, hit high speed targets and use of different kinds of guns, and he also dodge bullets.

Agent and Lookout are both very experienced with guns, using them a lot in all of their movies. Agent has shot people from long ranges with a submachine gun and has had several shootouts with pistols. Here, Agent shows off how versatile and adaptable he is, fighting on a scaffolding and swinging around on ropes, before making a split-second shot while hanging upside down from a rope.

And Lookout is an excellent shot with a lot of weapons. He's used a sniper rifle, lots of pistols, and he uses a shotgun in a shootout where he has to find his enemy in a bunch of low cover, much like our situation here. He shows smart tactics and good accuracy.

While your team is anxiously looking to open the black box, my team is willing to put them down first, that's combined with my superior teamwork, better use of equipment, and cautious positioning will ensure our victory.

It's not so much that we're anxious to open it, but I think that my team is made up of people who will jump on any opportunity to get an edge, even if there's some risk. They're not very cautious, so I think they would prefer the advantages of opening the box to the relative safety of cautiously approaching it.

Now, I think we can move on to next phase: debate what could happen if you take the black box and what could happen if I take it. It's ok for you? I think we cover everything here...

Sounds good. For this part, I'm going to assume that we'll both have opened our colored safes already.

If my team finds that you've opened the Black Box, then they'll start to play things a little bit safer. Since you will have the equipment advantage, it will benefit my team more to take things to close combat, where your gear won't help you as much. Because of this, they'll take a more stealthy approach. I've already talked about their stealth skills, so I believe they should be able to close the distance pretty well, and then it's hand-to-hand, which we've already discussed.

If it does come to a gunfight, I won't be in too much trouble. Lookout and Agent should be about even with German and Hangman, but I have Vamp, who is good with her twin pistols, whereas you only have Spartan, who is at best only decent with a bow and arrow. I also have Sleuth, who is at least capable with a gun, so I have the numbers advantage in a shootout. I can send Striker to try and get around behind you, since you'll only have Tattoo and Wrecker to fight him off.

If I get the black box open first, then I should be at a definite advantage. The additional gun will help Lookout a lot, and the earpieces should help my teamwork to be as good as yours, which eliminates one of your advantages. I should have an even greater advantage in close combat thanks to the extra kevlar vest and melee weapon, and the scope and extra explosives should also give me an advantage in a longer range fight.

STRATEGY

If your team gets the black safe open, then my strategy will be to use stealth in order to fight you up close. Once we've taken you down and ideally disarmed you of some of your equipment, my team will stay together and go to your base at an easy pace, making sure not to tire themselves out. We'll attack your base and try to get the flag from you to take back to my base.

If my team gets the black safe, then Striker will return to my base with the mines and things like that, setting up traps around my base and then waiting to ambush. The rest of my team will go to your base without trying to attack you in the junkyard. If you've already gone back to your base, we'll fight there for your flag. If you try to attack my base, then Striker's traps and combat skills should slow your team down enough that my team returns first with the flag.

You can counter my debate about what would happen if either of us get the black box, and then I think we should debate about attacking each other's bases, if that's okay.

My team is less cautious by nature, but I don't think they need to be as cautious.

That's one more reason of their downfall.

she was able to take a hit from the Hulk when he was angry

that's just...wrong! lol I didn't know that, that's superhuman! lol pretty impressive, even not being hulk's better punch, it was more like "get of my way!"

He might not be quite as good as Guille from Street Fighter, but he still has a nice flip kick at 0:54, lol.

lol I can't find anymore his flashkick =/ but he actually use one leg to disarm and the other to ko his enemy, and manage to land on his feet lol

And with German, I don't remember him seeming very fast. He was more of a big strong fighter, but Vamp's fighting style relies on flipping around and avoiding people. German will have a hard time even hitting her, since he's never faced anyone with so much acrobatic skill. Vamp would have a hard time beating him, too, but if she can cut him with her knife while avoiding his attacks, she can wear him out eventually. Although I could see him winning, too. It would be a close fight, since he's a lot stronger than she is.

If she tries to "pole-dance" him, as she always to, he'll just smack her around, on the ground, on cars, walls...

Spartan is good, very good. But he's not unbeatable. He's used to fighting with a shield to defend, which he doesn't have in this battle, and he also doesn't face people as fast as my characters. Vamp is extremely agile and acrobatic, Striker is unbelievably quick, and both Lookout and Agent fight very fast. Sleuth always disarms the opponents he faces, and I would argue that he has a better chance against Leonidas than he does against Hangman. Leonidas is strong and tough and brutal, but he really only fights in one basic style. It works very well, but it's predictable. Sleuth is good enough at predicting that he might be able to get around Spartan's attack and take him down with his knowledge of weak points. But Spartan would put up a very good fight against anyone, and he has a chance of winning every fight, no matter which of my team he goes against.

Even when he's unarmed he can take down people armed with guns, and here he also wins a close-quarters fight against someone with a machete, even though he's unarmed.

I showed before his speed and agility in combat, also his experience in fighting multiple enemies, so he can tag your team. At this moment he doesn't have a shield but he can adapt his fight style with no problem. I have to remember you that I choose a spear as a melee weapon, so in a close combat he has the range in his favor, and he also has improvisation skills, in case of the encounter happens before we find our weapons, so he can improvise a spear or blade. And none of your member ever fought someone as skilled as him in the use of melee weapons, Agent fought a guy that just desperately swing his sword (that's also shows that willing to kill or been bloodlusted doesn't mean a skill upgrade). Need to end this saying that knowing someone fighting style don't mean an instant winning, professional fighters knows each other styles but the best in that day wins.

I don't really agree with this. If your team is around, Sleuth is more likely to notice them than they are to notice him. Tattoo might be as good at noticing people, but Sleuth has amazing senses. He's detected an assassin by smell, and he's also got fantastic hearing, as demonstrated when he hears the individual conversations of everyone in a restaurant while waiting for Watson to arrive. Add the fact that he's an absolute master at seeing details, and I very much doubt that your team will get close enough to flashbang mine without being detected. And if your team has found their colored safe, odd are that my team has found mine and we're both armed. In armed close combat, I still have the advantage. Neither Tattoo nor Wrecker will do much in a fight, so it's pretty much three against three. Sleuth, Vamp, and Striker all have experience against multiple opponents as well, so the small advantage of numbers won't mean much. Lookout and Agent will come running as soon as the fighting starts, and I highly doubt your team can beat all three of my characters before backup arrives. Even if you do, a few of your team will get taken down and most will be wounded, so my two best fighters should be able to finish off the rest and then get the black safe open while everyone is respawning.

Noticing something and reacting to a bullet or a grenade are different things, he may notice but he won't dodge a bullet or tank a grenade or be immune to a flashbang. Actually my team doesn't need to go much close to use any type of grenade or to shoot, those are ranged weapons. I'm sure that Hangman alone can shoot down Sleuth and Striker pretty quickly, with back up of German they overwhelm your team, putting Wrecker, Tattoo and Spartan on the mix they do a clean job, your three guys won't have a chance. Remember none of them has Kevlar vest and my strategy doesn't put Tattoo and Wrecker on vulnerable positions, they are there more like distraction, and anywhere they hit your guys, will hurt them. Striker and Sleuth have experience against multiple shooter? My team has, we out number them and has better teamwork, so they'll probably goes down before Agent and Lookout arrive, and my team won't be that exhausted or hurt.

Have Wrecker and Tattoo ever shot guns in combat?

Tattoo was arrested for robbing a bank, using a gun, he used another times but I can't remember right now, but he isn't the best in this, in the show he was the one that thinks, not that shoots. Wrecker used in the way that I said before, he lay down and wait to shoot the enemies legs, genitals when they pass or heads when they crouch. Saying once again, they'll shoot as a distraction, to keep your team retreat, allowing Spartan to get closer or my team to move in the battleground and stuff, if they get lucky they may kill someone of The Omegas.

Agent and Lookout are both very experienced with guns, using them a lot in all of their movies. Agent has shot people from long ranges with a submachine gun and has had several shootouts with pistols. Here, Agent shows off how versatile and adaptable he is, fighting on a scaffolding and swinging around on ropes, before making a split-second shot while hanging upside down from a rope.
And Lookout is an excellent shot with a lot of weapons. He's used a sniper rifle, lots of pistols, and he uses a shotgun in a shootout where he has to find his enemy in a bunch of low cover, much like our situation here. He shows smart tactics and good accuracy.

If it does come to a gunfight, I won't be in too much trouble. Lookout and Agent should be about even with German and Hangman, but I have Vamp, who is good with her twin pistols, whereas you only have Spartan, who is at best only decent with a bow and arrow. I also have Sleuth, who is at least capable with a gun, so I have the numbers advantage in a shootout.

That's a good agility feat for Agent and aiming for Lookout. But Hangman has more agility feats on regular bases than both, he can I showed him shooting while rolling, spinning, sliding, jumping, running, lay down, watching throw a mirror and that's pretty much the scenario here, that will allow him to take creative and unthinkable angles to shoot without lose his accuracy. Considering the junkyard, Lookout won't have that plain terrain, open vision to shoot, so that feat doesn't apply right now, but after for sure. German also is a good shooter, and I'll remember that we can use explosives and other equipment that my team is more used to. And don't take Spartan out of equation, he has shown good feats in spear throwing.

So actually my team has the edge on ranged confrontation once Sleuth and Striker aren't factors, and my team will always be with number advantage, teamwork, and better use of other weapons.

But enough with this, MOVING ON!

If my team finds that you've opened the Black Box, then they'll start to play things a little bit safer. Since you will have the equipment advantage, it will benefit my team more to take things to close combat, where your gear won't help you as much. Because of this, they'll take a more stealthy approach. I've already talked about their stealth skills, so I believe they should be able to close the distance pretty well, and then it's hand-to-hand, which we've already discussed.
If it does come to a gunfight, I won't be in too much trouble. Lookout and Agent should be about even with German and Hangman, but I have Vamp, who is good with her twin pistols, whereas you only have Spartan, who is at best only decent with a bow and arrow. I also have Sleuth, who is at least capable with a gun, so I have the numbers advantage in a shootout. I can send Striker to try and get around behind you, since you'll only have Tattoo and Wrecker to fight him off.

As i said in other post, my team will try to clean the area first, them open the black box, and I showed that we can do that. But if in some case we open and the pick the equipment first we in try to kill all of your team, with weapons advantage, communicators, that's will be easier to me to take you down. And you may want to use stealth but my team is better in this and in the use/locomotion of battleground, even if you try to close the distance that's not necessary will happen, my team has agility, speed, intelligence, equipment and strategy to not allow it. Also Striker didn't show any stealth prowess so he won't get around unnoticed, actually it's probable that he will be the first to die.

If I get the black box open first, then I should be at a definite advantage. The additional gun will help Lookout a lot, and the earpieces should help my teamwork to be as good as yours, which eliminates one of your advantages. I should have an even greater advantage in close combat thanks to the extra kevlar vest and melee weapon, and the scope and extra explosives should also give me an advantage in a longer range fight.

Well, if that happen you'll have the upper hand, for sure, but I disagree with your statement that because of the communicators your teamwork will be as good as mine, that's just a way of communication, that doesn't make up your guys mind about the importance of teamwork and how to work with other peoples nor experience in that, my team still has quite edge in that aspect. Yet we will try to retrieve the equipment and kill your team, and retrieving things or people is what Hangman, German and Tattoo do in regular bases, so we know how to do that even in disadvantage, but that will be tough.

The Accidents will only leave the junkyard with all your team dead or with all us dead. (If we leaved with your guys alive, we would give chance to them take us on a plain site in our side of the field, so we would die without respawn)

OUTCOMES

In worst scenario your team will pick the supplies of black box and kill all my team members, in that case we'll respawn in our base, saving us time and energy of the walk. Even in this case, my team would put down at least Striker and Sleuth, they didn't show skills to say alive is this confrontation. And we would have this:

• Spartan: Bow w/ standard arrows, 2 knives, spear, steel hatchet;
• German: pistol, manual action shotgun, manual action rifle, 2 frag grenade, knife;
• Hangman: 2 pistols, assault rifle, frag grenade, flash-bang, smoke grenade, knife, brass knuckles;
• Tattoo: Kevlar Vest, pistol, smoke grenade, flash-bang, knife;
• Wrecker: Kevlar Vest, pistol, smoke grenade, flash-bang, knife.

plus, 1 lb of Semtex/C4, 100 ft of nylon rope, 1 pair of Binoculars, a compass, 2 books of matches, 3 additional canteens, 5 lbs of canned fruits and beans, 1 lb of beef jerky, and a Fifth of Johnie Walker Blue Label.

In Best scenario my team will kill all your team, pick the supplies of the black box, after that they'll kill themselves and respawn on our base, saving us time and energy of the walk. And we would have this:

plus, 3 lb of Semtex/C4, 100 ft of nylon rope, 1 pair of Binoculars, a compass, 2 books of matches, 3 additional canteens, 5 lbs of canned fruits and beans, 1 lb of beef jerky, a Fifth of Johnie Walker Blue Label, 3 Bouncing Betty's,1 additional assault rifle,1 Holographic Sight, 1 ACOG scope, and a canister of 1 use spray that can heal any bodily injury, except damage to the brain.

Well, I guess that's all for now, we can debate the next phase. You go first, let's talk about what happen if you take the black box and kill my guys, when we finish it, we do the other way.

@Esquire

@Esquire The end?

@wbr17: Crap, totally forgot about this one. I'll get a short post up and then we can be finished after you get the last post, since I had the first one. Sorry about the wait.

Bump

My English is terrible.