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#1 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Ultimate vs Team 616

Vs

Rules for this battle go as followed

  • Morals are off
  • Random encounter, no prep
  • No outside help or external resources
  • Team work/ Chemistry is a factor
  • Both team in good health
  • Standard gear for both

Battle takes place here

The one and only, New York City

  • No BFR
  • Few bystanders, most are in vehicles
  • 100 Meter staring distance
  • Fully interactive environment
  • Middle of the day

WHO WINS?

#2 Posted by Tohoma (1621 posts) - - Show Bio

616 Spider-man>Ultimate Spider-man

Ultimate Captain America> 616 Captain America

Ultimate Captain America> 616 Spider-man

Ultimate team wins.

#3 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Spider-man

616 Captain America > Ultimate Captain America

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Captain America

616 team wins.

fixed.

#4 Posted by DangerousLoki (714 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Spider-man

616 Captain America > Ultimate Captain America

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Captain America

616 team wins.

fixed.

Actually Ultimate Captain America has the advantage over regular Cap. He could probably take him. But Spidey would probably be able to put Ult. Cap down in the end. However, brains says they switch it up and Cap takes out Ult Spidey pretty swiftly and efficiently and they double up on Ult Cap and put him down. So 616 by a slight margin.

#5 Edited by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangerousloki:

Ultimate cap is stronger and more ruthless, but captain america is better trained and smarter, so he wins.

Spiderman an Ultimate Spider man are closer than people think. the both 10 tonners, but 616 has better training and spidersense.

#6 Posted by AdamtheSubmariner (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult. Cap is an O.G, but 616 Spidey i think edges out ult counterpart, so i go 616

#7 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm banking on 616, despite my love for the UU. Current 616 Spidey is arguably more experienced than his teenage Ultimate counterpart. I think Ultimate Cap would most likely defeat his counterpart, but 616 might be able to pull a slight advantage with his more powerful shield and arguably better HTH skills. Though even if he doesn't, he could get backup from his universe's Spidey. It's a close call, but I'm banking on 616.

#8 Posted by DeathSamurai (537 posts) - - Show Bio

it comes down to ult. cap vs 616 spidey which i say spidey wins by a margain

#9 Edited by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@dangerousloki:

Ultimate cap is stronger and more ruthless, but captain america is better trained and smarter, so he wins.

Spiderman an Ultimate Spider man are closer than people think. the both 10 tonners, but 616 has better training and spidersense.

Being better trained doesn't always help Cap (although I'm not sure if he is). John Steele was able to beat Cap even though he didn't have any real H2H skills and was just stronger than just like Ultimate Captain America is

#10 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave

John Steele's been serving since the Civil War, so it's not that much of a stretch to suggest that he has a fair amount of experience with hand-to-hand combat. Plus, 616 Captain America has shown multiple times that he can beat stronger enemies with nothing but superior HTH abilities. Case in point: defeating three Super-Soldiers even when Cap himself was depowered and reduced to his former skinny self.

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@tohoma said:

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Spider-man

616 Captain America > Ultimate Captain America

616 Spider-man > Ultimate Captain America

616 team wins.

fixed.

Your high.


Spiderman an Ultimate Spider man are closer than people think. the both 10 tonners, but 616 has better training and spidersense.

Ultimate Spider Man Respect (Click)

Ult. Pete can hang till Cap easy beats 616 Cap. Then its 2 on 1.

#12 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

616 Team for the win. But not easy and I can see a good argument for the other side.

#13 Edited by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Cap has stated that John wasn't as skilled as him when they met during World War II.

He also noticed that he even lost the few skills that he had before

And yet John Steele still beats him

There is nothing to my knowledge to indicate that Ultimate Cap isn't as equally skilled as 616 Captain America although I'd have to confirm that with @cadencev2. Even if he isn't I think I've people who are stronger than 616 Captain America can beat him even if there not as skilled as him

#14 Posted by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio

616 Spider-Man is better than Ultimate Spider-Man, and has more experience. Ult. Cap can take 616 Cap. Spider-Man vs. Ultimate Cap would be a good battle, Cap has a better healing factor and they are pretty close in durability from what I have seen, but Parker is faster and stronger. 616 Team wins 7/10.

#15 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave

I never said that John Steele was as skilled as Cap - I just said that he should have a fair amount of skills in terms of HTH, as shown in your scans above. I don't see how he doesn't have any 'real H2H skills', because all that first scan implies is that Steele didn't have the same level of combat training as Cap did, not that he didn't have any. Even with some of his moves gone, he still demonstrates a fair amount of HTH capability - giving a haymaker and elbowing Cap at the knee joint.

But that's a topic for another day. As I stated in my first post, I do actually think that Ultimate Cap would take a majority against his counterpart simply because of his tendency to fight dirty and his deadly superhuman strength. I do agree that 616-Cap's HTH skills can only take him so far. But I still maintain that he has a slight edge in terms of fighting ability, and while Steele is one example where his skills couldn't overcome, he has shown in other instances that he can.

Here are two scans of Captain America (without his shield no less), defeating an entire tavern of Asgardian trolls, who are physically stronger than him and also outnumber him.

In short, while I do agree that Ultimate Cap would likely beat 616-Cap, I just wanted to note that I think 616 Cap would at least be able to hold Ultimate Cap off long enough with his superior training. Ultimate Cap is no slouch in the HTH department, but Cap himself surpasses him based on feats alone.

#16 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Veshark I think MS Cap and Ult Cap can go "either" way.

#17 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Veshark I think MS Cap and Ult Cap can go "either" way.

You're gonna have to tag me, friend.

I'm actually banking on Ultimate Cap taking a majority here. He would probably beat 616-Cap. But I just think that Cap himself has shown impressive HTH feats against stronger enemies before.

#18 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Also I believe Ult Spid is being under rated. He once went into his own "aunt" may mode during battle with Goblin and was able to send Ult Goblin "flying" and flash KO'ed him for 3 panels.

Not even Ult Cap with the Avengers were able to do that to Ult Goblin put him down. But then again Ult Spiderman at the time was uber pissed.

#19 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@krauser99 said:

Veshark I think MS Cap and Ult Cap can go "either" way.

You're gonna have to tag me, friend.

I'm actually banking on Ultimate Cap taking a majority here. He would probably beat 616-Cap. But I just think that Cap himself has shown impressive HTH feats against stronger enemies before.

That's fine your statement. Though I disagree and can see strong case for both of them IMO.

#20 Posted by frogdog (3569 posts) - - Show Bio

616 spider-man solos.

#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17974 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand where most of you guys are getting the notion that Ult. Pete is weaker than 616 Parker by a large factor? Sure, 616 has several times more experience and he's shown far more impressive and consistant feats, but Ult. Peter Parker easily is in the ten ton range as he effortlessly smashed a truck into Norman Osborn while he was bleeding to death.

Obviously, Ult. Cap has the advantage over 616 Cap but Peter would defeat his Ultimate counterpart and then go on to defeat Cap with moderate ease, especially if he's lacking morals.

Moderator
#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Here is my take. I see no reason with Morals off of 616 Pete beating down Ultimate Pete.

Ultimate Pete defeated 4 out of the 6 Sinister 6 while bleeding to death from a anti tank rifle!

That is more impressive to me than being killed by 40 toner like Molus or whatever his name was.

The point is Ultimate Pete will outlast in his fight vs Pete than 616 will vs Ultimate. Ultimate Cap will murder stomp 616.

So the real battle is Spiderman vs Ultimate Pete and Ultimate Cap.

Ultimates win.

#23 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

Morlun was powerful enough to tank vibranium tipped nukes with ease. He would slaughter ultimate spiderman as well. Also his life drain was increasing his powers and decreasing peters. So he wasn't just a 40 tonner.

#25 Posted by Deranged Midget (17974 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Morlun is not a 40 tonner, nor is he that strong in reality. The reason he beat down Peter so effortlessly was because his sole purpose was to hunt down the wielders of the animalistic totems, hence his obsession with Spider-Man's life force. Peter temporarily defeated him by poisoning his own body with further radiation but he returned and nearly took his life. So no matter how powerful Peter would've been, he never would've defeated Morlun.

On top of that, Peter absolutely wrecked the Kravinoff family while under the effects of the Bird flu, who previously had killed Kaine who is Peter's physical superior in every way. And if I recall correctly, Ult. Pete never directly defeated them on his own as he had some minor assistance from Johnny and Bobby and used the villains against themselves. He BFR'd Vulture and Aunt May shot Electro.

How exactly is Ultimate Cap supposed to stomp Peter? He's inferior to him in every physical way.

Moderator
#26 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@veshark: Cap has stated that John wasn't as skilled as him when they met during World War II.He also noticed that he even lost the few skills that he had before

Well to be fair. MS Cap has demonstrated chi control, mastering Kang's alien fighting on the go (which was stated that other warriors took "decades" to accomplish. Has shown incredible pressure point fighting. I don't think Ult Cap has demonstrated chi skills, alien martial arts, to even being able to sense the shift of air that you opponent makes "black panther" in order to counter.

Plus I know Ult Cap is a genius I don't think it's ever been particularly stated that his "mind" is enhanced like MS Steve. I know the statements of impressiveness that he has like Fury stating his planning is off the charts etc etc. But that's not the same like MS Cap IMO. I'm not saying there is not a reference for Ult Cap in this regard I just have never seen it.

#27 Posted by VeganDiet (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Morlun was powerful enough to tank vibranium tipped nukes with ease. He would slaughter ultimate spiderman as well. Also his life drain was increasing his powers and decreasing peters. So he wasn't just a 40 tonner.

Didn't Morlun also tear an adamantium metal net?

He's also ignoring the fact that Peter was already weakened from his disease when Morlun killed him. When they first fought, Peter fought him for something like 17 hours straight. Most of that time was with broken ribs as well.

#28 Edited by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

@cadencev2 Come on CadenceV2!!!!!!. Spider-Man was dying due to the Other, and Morlun took on Wakanda and was trashing the country (Remember the most advanced nation on the planet), so bad that BP had to use a Shaman to BFR him. As @jashro44 and @vegandiet pointed out he was tanking Vibranuim tipped nukes with no problems whatsoever, and was ripping through Adamantuim nets. And this is without taking into account his Omega Red style power draining abilities.

Simply put

Morlun is villain with Spider-Man Speed and Agility.

Omega Red Style Power Draining.

100 tonner strength- around thing level :P

Ability not to be seen in plain sight (He evaded Wolverine senses three times in two issues, and walked through the Avengers Mansion without anyone noticing in plain sight).

Continental Durability + (Given Nukes)

Morlun would sh!tstomp all of the combatants in this thread in a heartbeat, and adding Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Venom, Giant Man, Cyclops, Spider-Woman, Daredevil and the Wrecking Crew wouldn't be enough.

You'd probably need someone around Hulk's level to put him down.

This also enforces what I said about Handbooks sometimes being wrong. Morlun is actually only a 25 tonner in his Handbook entry lol. Complete and utter BS.

#29 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: Morlun's Run in BP would make him exponentially stronger than simply 40 tonnes

#30 Posted by karrob (4264 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@veshark: Cap has stated that John wasn't as skilled as him when they met during World War II.

He also noticed that he even lost the few skills that he had before

And yet John Steele still beats him

There is nothing to my knowledge to indicate that Ultimate Cap isn't as equally skilled as 616 Captain America although I'd have to confirm that with @cadencev2. Even if he isn't I think I've people who are stronger than 616 Captain America can beat him even if there not as skilled as him

This is a poor showing. John Steele is wayyyyy more durable than the both of them. The fight with Protocide would be a better example of how 616 vs 1610 would go. 616 Cap has the skills advantage and with the strength and brute force advantage of 1610 Cap, he has the ability to close that gap quickly. With that said team 1 wins in the end. 616 Cap can hold on long enough for 616 Spiderman to beat 1610 Spiderman.

#31 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget:

Same way Cap beats Wolverine, Juggernaut (twice), Chitarui Alien Commander, Temporary put down Hulk, Nuke while in the worse shape, Abdul while again in bad shape, Warmachine, Avengers, and beaten all those 60+ Toner SHIELD agents.

With CONSISTENT superiority and feats that do not range from all over the place like 616 Spider Man.

@laflux said:

@vegandiet:

@cadencev2 Come on CadenceV2!!!!!!. Spider-Man was dying due to the Other, and Morlun took on Wakanda and was trashing the country (Remember the most advanced nation on the planet), so bad that BP had to use a Shaman to BFR him. As @jashro44 and @vegandiet pointed out he was tanking Vibranuim tipped nukes with no problems whatsoever, and was ripping through Adamantuim nets. And this is without taking into account his Omega Red style power draining abilities.

Simply put

Morlun is villain with Spider-Man Speed and Agility.

Omega Red Style Power Draining.

100 tonner strength- around thing level :P

Ability not to be seen in plain sight (He evaded Wolverine senses three times in two issues, and walked through the Avengers Mansion without anyone noticing in plain sight).

Continental Durability + (Given Nukes)

Morlun would sh!tstomp all of the combatants in this thread in a heartbeat, and adding Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Venom, Giant Man, Cyclops, Spider-Woman, Daredevil and the Wrecking Crew wouldn't be enough.

You'd probably need someone around Hulk's level to put him down.

This also enforces what I said about Handbooks sometimes being wrong. Morlun is actually only a 25 tonner in his Handbook entry lol. Complete and utter BS.

Well that makes more sense. All I EVER seen of Morlun is stomping Spidey. Now that there is context.

Spider Man still has all over the place showings to being challenged by Punisher Aim and Bullets, to being tagged by Bullseye in Dark Avengers.

My point stands that Spider Man is not outclassing Ultimate Pete in 5 minuets. That would be the time, if not less, Ultimate Cap would need to break his 616 counter parts neck.

#32 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@dondave

I never said that John Steele was as skilled as Cap - I just said that he should have a fair amount of skills in terms of HTH, as shown in your scans above. I don't see how he doesn't have any 'real H2H skills', because all that first scan implies is that Steele didn't have the same level of combat training as Cap did, not that he didn't have any. Even with some of his moves gone, he still demonstrates a fair amount of HTH capability - giving a haymaker and elbowing Cap at the knee joint.

But that's a topic for another day. As I stated in my first post, I do actually think that Ultimate Cap would take a majority against his counterpart simply because of his tendency to fight dirty and his deadly superhuman strength. I do agree that 616-Cap's HTH skills can only take him so far. But I still maintain that he has a slight edge in terms of fighting ability, and while Steele is one example where his skills couldn't overcome, he has shown in other instances that he can.

Here are two scans of Captain America (without his shield no less), defeating an entire tavern of Asgardian trolls, who are physically stronger than him and also outnumber him.

In short, while I do agree that Ultimate Cap would likely beat 616-Cap, I just wanted to note that I think 616 Cap would at least be able to hold Ultimate Cap off long enough with his superior training. Ultimate Cap is no slouch in the HTH department, but Cap himself surpasses him based on feats alone.

I have one better.

Cap and Depowered Thor battle the entire Underworld Army of Asgardians collected by Hela.

BAMSKY!

#33 Posted by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: If you are talking about new ways to die Peter was shot multiple times because osborns men were using special tracer bullets which followed spider-man around. He couldn't dodge them so he had to angle his body in the right position where bullseyes glass and osborns bullets missed his vital organs IIRC.

The punisher showing is true all though that is mainly back in the day when Peter wasn't that experienced and didn't use his agility the way he does now. He did lose recently in punisher war zone admittedly but he was stomping punisher until punisher used some weird explosive weapon (some huge area of effect weapon). And Peter was toying with him for some reason (I would argue plot since Peter has one shotted punisher before and the premiss of that series was punisher vs the avengers).

#34 Posted by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux:

@jashro44 said:

Morlun was powerful enough to tank vibranium tipped nukes with ease. He would slaughter ultimate spiderman as well. Also his life drain was increasing his powers and decreasing peters. So he wasn't just a 40 tonner.

Didn't Morlun also tear an adamantium metal net?

He's also ignoring the fact that Peter was already weakened from his disease when Morlun killed him. When they first fought, Peter fought him for something like 17 hours straight. Most of that time was with broken ribs as well.

Yes all though I have heard a rumor about some retcon where unless its stated to be primary adamantium its assumed to be secondary or something like that. I can't confirm if its true though so take my word on the retcon with a grain of salt.

Either way morlun is way above street level.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: If you are talking about new ways to die Peter was shot multiple times because osborns men were using special tracer bullets which followed spider-man around. He couldn't dodge them so he had to angle his body in the right position where bullseyes glass and osborns bullets missed his vital organs IIRC.

The punisher showing is true all though that is mainly back in the day when Peter wasn't that experienced and didn't use his agility the way he does now. He did lose recently in punisher war zone admittedly but he was stomping punisher until punisher used some weird explosive weapon (some huge area of effect weapon). And Peter was toying with him for some reason (I would argue plot since Peter has one shotted punisher before and the premiss of that series was punisher vs the avengers).

No...

Just Saying......

Spider Man is inconsistent as ****.

#36 Posted by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: That is from new ways to die. Peter had just been shot like 10 times.

He is hardly 100% here.

#37 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yet Ultimate Cap is still consistent when Beaten on or Injured. Hell Ultimate Peter worked best when DYING!

Just saying. Spider Sense and Mach Speed Reaction vs.... Hand Thrown 150 FPS projectile..... little too inconsistent....

#38 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Ha no worries. Morlun is up there as one of favorite villian characters so I am fairly well-versed on him. As for the battle at hand, providing Peter doesn't have his Horizon Lab tech, I'd favor the Ult Team. We've already seen Miles Morales being able to keep up with Peter (even if the Venom Sting was a bit iffy), and I sure Peter could do the same

And I do think that Ult Cap is that much better than 616 Cap that a 2 on one situation would soon envelope against Peter. An Argument can be made whether Peter would beat Ult Cap by himself, he's not beating him an Ult Spider-Man

#39 Edited by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:We don't even know if Peter had his full powers in that issue. The last issue Eddie touched him and this messed with his powers (because anti venoms curing power), so for all we know Peter was still recovering from that. Plus the tracking bullets added in and getting shot multiple times.

#40 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yeah I asked Tom Bevroot whether the Adamantuim Net was secondary or primary to no answer. In anycase it requires a huge amount of force to rip it like that. Gravage Hulk was struggling with Kraven's Adamantuim's hooks for a bit (I'm not saying Morlun is as strong as Hulk, just saying the strength required) lol.

#41 Posted by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Morlun was powerful enough to tank vibranium tipped nukes with ease. He would slaughter ultimate spiderman as well. Also his life drain was increasing his powers and decreasing peters. So he wasn't just a 40 tonner.

I don't understand this feat, later in the same issue he was stabbed by Shuri with a spear

#42 Edited by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Fair enough.

@dondave:

There are different forms of durability. I guess that plays a role. For example wonder woman tanked a nuke before if I'm not mistaken but she can be stabbed.

#43 Edited by VeganDiet (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: If you are talking about new ways to die Peter was shot multiple times because osborns men were using special tracer bullets which followed spider-man around. He couldn't dodge them so he had to angle his body in the right position where bullseyes glass and osborns bullets missed his vital organs IIRC.

The punisher showing is true all though that is mainly back in the day when Peter wasn't that experienced and didn't use his agility the way he does now. He did lose recently in punisher war zone admittedly but he was stomping punisher until punisher used some weird explosive weapon (some huge area of effect weapon). And Peter was toying with him for some reason (I would argue plot since Peter has one shotted punisher before and the premiss of that series was punisher vs the avengers).

No...

Just Saying......

Spider Man is inconsistent as ****.

And Ultimate Pete couldn't even harm the Kingpin with his hits.

That inconsistency runs both ways.

#44 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@laflux: Fair enough.

@dondave:

There are different forms of durability. I guess that plays a role. For example wonder woman tanked a nuke before if I'm not mistaken but she can be stabbed.

Yeah Wonder-Woman is a funny one. I recall her as being Bullet Proof in some issues, but not in others. For example, she was Bullet Proof in Injustice Gods among Us, although that's not cannon.

#45 Posted by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I think injustice is a one off thing. My wonder woman reading is admittedly lacking but is there a canon instance where she tanks bullets? I think the writer just decided that her not being bullet proof made no sense and since he knew injustice wasn't canon he didn't really care.

#46 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: When has spider Man in Ultimate verse EVER tried to hurt King Pin? Ever? When has he gone all out on the clearly super human King Pin in Ultimate verse anyway?

Also Ultimate Consistency is just that, consistent. 1 out of 50 showings to Pete 1 out of 5 showings being all over the place.

Thats the problem with 616 Spidey, 60 years of feats leads to 60 years of writers inconsistent feats. People who like main stream marvel need to deal with that stigma.

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2:We don't even know if Peter had his full powers in that issue. The last issue Eddie touched him and this messed with his powers (because anti venoms curing power), so for all we know Peter was still recovering from that. Plus the tracking bullets added in and getting shot multiple times.

OK.... so Peter had every excuse under the sun being in 20 different comic lines in one year too.....

#47 Posted by jashro44 (25539 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: He has every excuse because thats the way the story was written. Him having 60 years of feats mean much. Having many years of feats doesn't necessarily mean one is going to be better. Gorgon for example was pretty flawless until Bendis wrote him. Having more showings hurt gorgon. Its the same deal with 616 spider-man. Yes he has a lot of high end feats because of all his decades in comics but he has a lot of low showings which you seem to be sticking to without acknowledging those high end feats...

#48 Edited by VeganDiet (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: When has spider Man in Ultimate verse EVER tried to hurt King Pin? Ever? When has he gone all out on the clearly super human King Pin in Ultimate verse anyway?

Also Ultimate Consistency is just that, consistent. 1 out of 50 showings to Pete 1 out of 5 showings being all over the place.

Thats the problem with 616 Spidey, 60 years of feats leads to 60 years of writers inconsistent feats. People who like main stream marvel need to deal with that stigma.

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2:We don't even know if Peter had his full powers in that issue. The last issue Eddie touched him and this messed with his powers (because anti venoms curing power), so for all we know Peter was still recovering from that. Plus the tracking bullets added in and getting shot multiple times.

OK.... so Peter had every excuse under the sun being in 20 different comic lines in one year too.....

Umm in their first encounter he struck him several times, and not one of his blows made the Kingpin budge. What makes the Kingpin of the Ultimate verse super human?

Ult. Spidey has also been outright humiliated by Elektra before. While Ult. Elektra is very skilled, she's not on the level of 616 Iron Fist, who Spider-man has consistently fought well against.

He also struggled to KO Ox and was laid low for a while after being grazed by a bullet. He was hospitalized after taking one bullet. 616 Pete took several, got hit by those knives from Bullseye, and still managed to take down the Green Goblin on that same day.

Ult. Pete is not as great as you're making him out to be. He's impressive yes, but he's also inexperienced and is outclassed by 616 Spider-man.

#49 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Umm in their first encounter he struck him several times, and not one of his blows made the Kingpin budge. What makes the Kingpin of the Ultimate verse super human?

Ult. Spidey has also been outright humiliated by Elektra before. While Ult. Elektra is very skilled, she's not on the level of 616 Iron Fist, who Spider-man has consistently fought well against.

He also struggled to KO Ox and was laid low for a while after being grazed by a bullet. He was hospitalized after taking one bullet. 616 Pete took several, got hit by those knives from Bullseye, and still managed to take down the Green Goblin on that same day.

Ult. Pete is not as great as you're making him out to be. He's impressive yes, but he's also inexperienced and is outclassed by 616 Spider-man.

1) King Pin is superhuman in the fact he can rip Spider Mans webbing apart, Webbing that holds car weights with no probe. King Pin also has ripped the very STONE/CONCRETE block work from the wall in a awkward position that should allow very little use of strength.

Yeah, he is clearly just peak human alright..... not even close.

2) Spider Man has never been Humiliated by Electra.

1st Encounter. Spider Man had his powers for all 2-3 months! Electra hardly owns the very Premature Pete here.

2nd Encounter. Spider Man tries to talk to her the whole time! Does not even put up a fight, She runs!

3rd fight. Spider PWNS Electra and King Pin!

So where is the Humiliation again? I am not seeing it. Is it when Spider Man was using his powers in months? Or was it when he outright owned Electra when he stop playing around?

3) He was laid low by a buulet? You mean when he was shot for the first time? LOL he had no clue about his Healing Factor then. He had no clue he would heal in days which he did. Whats your point? Spidey took a .50 Cal Sniper Rifle to the gut and Cap stated he would be fine in a few days of healing. 616 Spider has just as bad showings being hit by bullets.

4) You clearly have VERY LITTLE CLUE on Ultimate Spider Man or desperately trying to prove a point you dont have.

I seriously just shot down all your points that easy.

#50 Posted by VeganDiet (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

1. I never made a claim of him being peak human. Merely asked what you thought made him super human. Thank you for the information, but the condescension was unnecessary.

2.Uhhh.. you reading the same scene as me? He got tagged fairly easily, and almost killed right there, and was left, confused and with his arm obviously still hurting.

Not even putting up a fight? Gonna just ignore the part where he clearly tries to counterattack after taking one of her sais? He got kicked off the roof by her and was later talking about how embarrassing that fight was. So I'm not saying he was humiliated, Spider-man is saying he was.

She also pwns him again in the "Warriors" arc.

3.The first time he was shot, in the arc with the Spider-man impostor, he was hurt badly enough to be momentarily subdued by two cops. Later in a fight with Enforcers he is grazed by a bullet and this puts him out of action for a few pages. 616 Spidey took several bullets and was still able to take down Bullseye.

4. Read every single issue. I have no illusions about him. You're vastly overrating him.

Did you? Where's your rebuttal about him having issues KO-ing Ox?