#1 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio

Vs.

 

Rules

  • Random encounter
  • Start 100 ft apart
  • Standard equipment
  • Morals off
  • Bloodlusted

Location

 
#2 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe the Rogues can win this. The key to the Rogues win is Mirror Master.

#3 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Mirror Master could solo, and Captain Cold probably could as well. Probably Pied Piper, too. All of them together take this without too much trouble.

#4 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@Esquire said:

Mirror Master could solo, and Captain Cold probably could as well. Probably Pied Piper, too. All of them together take this without too much trouble.

I dont think any of them can solo and Piper is not even there.
#5 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Mirror Master solos.

#6 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9190 posts) - - Show Bio

If Captain Marvel gets trapped in the Mirror I wonder if he could get out via help from Shazaam? 

#7 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

@Esquire said:

Mirror Master could solo, and Captain Cold probably could as well. Probably Pied Piper, too. All of them together take this without too much trouble.

I dont think any of them can solo and Piper is not even there.

Sorry, thought I saw Piper. MM solos, though. He can transport Billy to a mirror dimension and smash him with no trouble. CC could at least stalemate. Batson isn't fast or strong enough to get through his cold field, and it's tanked lightning before. If Cap gets caught in the field, CC might be able to flash-freeze him to death, but he's durable enough that it might not be reasonable. But Marvel can't hurt Cold, since he can't get through the field.

Trickster and Heatwave could do some damage, but even with Heatwave's fire I don't think he can do enough damage to put Billy down before he gets killed. Same for Trickster. Weather Wizard can't really do much at all. Throw in Heatwave, Trickster, and Captain Cold and it's an interesting fight, but Mirror Master makes it unfair.

#8 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@Esquire said:

@IZZR said:

@Esquire said:

Mirror Master could solo, and Captain Cold probably could as well. Probably Pied Piper, too. All of them together take this without too much trouble.

I dont think any of them can solo and Piper is not even there.

Sorry, thought I saw Piper. MM solos, though. He can transport Billy to a mirror dimension and smash him with no trouble. CC could at least stalemate. Batson isn't fast or strong enough to get through his cold field, and it's tanked lightning before. If Cap gets caught in the field, CC might be able to flash-freeze him to death, but he's durable enough that it might not be reasonable. But Marvel can't hurt Cold, since he can't get through the field.

Trickster and Heatwave could do some damage, but even with Heatwave's fire I don't think he can do enough damage to put Billy down before he gets killed. Same for Trickster. Weather Wizard can't really do much at all. Throw in Heatwave, Trickster, and Captain Cold and it's an interesting fight, but Mirror Master makes it unfair.

There was a story arc where Superman once said Billy is could be as fast as Wally so he is definitely fast enough but in the end it really comes down to...how many times have we seen Billy bloodlusted enough to go all out?...almost never so that should be taken into consideration..He can do thunderclap so that and his lightning strikes are something they will have to be able to tank...
#9 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

#10 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@YoungJustice said:

@nickthedevil

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

Can Weather Wizard really do much to someone almost as fast as Wally but way more powerful??
#11 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@nickthedevil

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

Can Weather Wizard really do much to someone almost as fast as Wally but way more powerful??

Yes, since he does destroy Flash on occasion.

#12 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@YoungJustice said:

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@nickthedevil

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

Can Weather Wizard really do much to someone almost as fast as Wally but way more powerful??

Yes, since he does destroy Flash on occasion.

Since when has he ever destroyed Flash on his own?
#13 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@nickthedevil

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

Can Weather Wizard really do much to someone almost as fast as Wally but way more powerful??

Yes, since he does destroy Flash on occasion.

Since when has he ever destroyed Flash on his own?

See the rogues respect thread, I dont feel like copying and pasting the links.

Respect The Rogues

#14 Posted by nickthedevil (12498 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@IZZR said:

@YoungJustice said:

@nickthedevil

I am tempted to say the following solo

  • Captain Cold
  • Mirror Master
  • Weather Wizard

Your input?

Can Weather Wizard really do much to someone almost as fast as Wally but way more powerful??

Yes, since he does destroy Flash on occasion.

Since when has he ever destroyed Flash on his own?

Okay, Black Adam is on exact par with Captain Marvel. BA couldn't even keep up with Jay Garrick, the slowest Flash ever. he is not as fast as Wally, not even close. Hell, he is on par with Wonder Woman, in speed, IIRC.

Any of YJ's listed characters can solo

#15 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rogues.

#16 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

The Rogues.

#17 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

The Rogues.

#18 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

There was a story arc where Superman once said Billy is could be as fast as Wally so he is definitely fast enough but in the end it really comes down to...how many times have we seen Billy bloodlusted enough to go all out?...almost never so that should be taken into consideration..He can do thunderclap so that and his lightning strikes are something they will have to be able to tank...

Even if he is as fast as Wally, Wally can't get through the Cold Field without CC having plenty of time to flashfreeze him with his cold gun. The Cold Field has tanked Weather Wizard's lightning with no trouble, so I don't see Billy's getting through it, either. All of these characters have fast enough reflexes to tag the Flash, so even if Batson is that fast, which I've never seen feats of, they can tag him anyway. And Mirror Master can still solo.

#19 Posted by highaccuser (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

Mirror Master could solo, and Captain Cold probably could as well. Probably Pied Piper, too. All of them together take this without too much trouble.

If Mirror Master could send people moving that fast into mirror world wouldn't he have done it by now? I know the rouges have morals against that, but it didn't start like that for MM 2. He was fine killing Pipers defenesless parents. I think if he could send Flash to mirror world he would have.

As for who wins...how much faster is flash than captain marvel? Unless he's a lot faster i'm not sure how much better the rouges would fair against billy than flash.

#20 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8039 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: however weather wizard created a tornado in someone body I never seen any weather manipulator do that before so if he dose that to shazam it will do some damge

#21 Posted by thecoolest (239 posts) - - Show Bio

Mirrors Master solos via BFR.

#22 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

Mirror Master has sent Flash to mirror worlds a bunch of times. Cold's cold field can slow Batson down anyway, and Captain Marvel can be BFR'd while he's caught in the field.

Flash is orders of magnitude faster than Captain Marvel. Billy has been blitzed by Superman, who Wally could run rings around. Black Adam, (who's roughly equal to Billy), can't even keep up with Jay Garrick, the slowest Flash. Even at his best, Marvel doesn't have speed feats to match any of the Flashes.

@oceanmaster21 Against an opponent with Superman-level durability, I doubt the tornado would do anything more than make Billy uncomfortable.

#23 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8039 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: I don't think it would put himdown permanently but it be enough to make him weakend

#24 Posted by highaccuser (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: Didn't Black Adam catch Jay Garrick during Black Reign? Also, Wally has internally monolouged that supes can keep up with him, which he seems to do normally. I understand the Flashes hold back, but they do when fighting the rouges to, right?

Also, if Mirror Master can send Flash to Mirror world, why hasn't he just killed him by turning him into glass? It seems like that would be just as easy.

The cold gun will slow Marvel down, but only so much. How much does it slow Flash down normally? He and Cold had surprisingly few fights in Johns run, which is where I get most of my info on the rouges.

#25 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: Adam tagged Jay once in Black Reign after Jay blitzed him with a few punches. (Sort of like the Barry/Superman encounter in New-52 JL.) But Jay has easily outrun Black Adam in a race, and in another encounter he beat up Teth Adam until he was distracted by endangered civilians. I think I can rustle up scans for all of those if you want.

Internal monologues are all well and good, but Wally's feats put him leagues above Superman. Jay has kept up with Supes before, and Barry showed he was faster in the notorious "Those were for charity" instance, for example. Wally is faster than Barry and Jay, and his feats are way above Clark's. Superman has speedblitzed Captain Marvel before, so he should be a lot faster than Adam, anyway.

Flashes do hold back against Rogues, but Cold has tagged a blitzing Kid Zoom. He's also tagged Superboy and Superman in Flash #166, which indicates he can tag Adam. The gun slows Flash down enough that Cold can tag him, and Wally knows this well enough not to mess with it head-on.

The Rogues don't kill Flashes. It's part of their code, because they don't want the whole Justice League after them. (Yes, they killed Bart, but there's a lot of context to that.) Do you want scans of Flash in a mirror world? I can probably dig some up pretty easily if you're that skeptical.

#26 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12184 posts) - - Show Bio

This is almost spiteful...I hope it's just the rouges in the pic and not including people like Abra and Piper

#27 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (5217 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by highaccuser (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: I can believe Jay easily outruns Adam, but blitzing is what matters here. If a Marvel can catch a Flash while being blitzed by him he has to be plenty fast. That said, I've decided Supes doesn't really have speed comparable to Flash, but is still way faster than the rouges(except arguably Mirror Master)

Kid Zoom seemed to be purposefully running though a cold blast without even moving the other way. He's quite arrogant. I think he kind of let himself get hit to show off. Cold tagged supes off panel, and supes doesn't use his speed that much.

I know the rouges don't kill Flashes, but again, it didn't start that way for McCulloch. He was with Blacksmiths rouges when they were disscussing ways to kill an unconcious Flash, and very purposefully infected Flash with the frenzy Virus. I restate that he killed pipers parents.

Has MM ever sent Flash to Mirror world during a fight? If that is what happened in the above scans(had a hard time reading them), then they would win by BFR.