#1 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Some may think this a curbstomp and it might be, but I figure if Mar-Vell can take on Thanos he should beable to give Darksied a run for his money. Thoughts?

#2 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid for the win.

He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win.

That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams.

From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark.

#3 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Darkseid for the win. He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win. That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams. From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark."
Mar-vell is much stronger and more durable than I think you give credit for, though I agree Darksied is stronger than him. I think with the Nega-Bands Mar-Vell could absorb the energy from the Omega Beams. And with his cosmic awareness he would be ready for it coming.
#4 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"The_Creator says:
"Darkseid for the win. He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win. That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams. From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark."
Mar-vell is much stronger and more durable than I think you give credit for, though I agree Darksied is stronger than him. I think with the Nega-Bands Mar-Vell could absorb the energy from the Omega Beams. And with his cosmic awareness he would be ready for it coming. "

Marvel

Strength: 10 tonnes (due to solar radiation experiment), 15 tonnes with Nega bands

Durability: Superhuman. Able to resist bullets and punches from superhumanly strong opponents. However durability not at the level of the Thing for instance. Durability provided via Nega bands. Without them, he is slightly tougher than a Kree soldier (so perhaps twice peak human).

Reaction Speed: Enhanced human. So maybe 3 - 4 times that of a human.

Flight Speed: Several hundred mph in atmosphere (thansk to solar experiment). Capable of entering hyperspace in space (thanks to nega bands).

Energy Blasts: Can fire solar energy blasts that can melt/deform steel.

Dakseid

Strength: Able half that of Superman, so around 1.3 million tonnes

Durability; Able to survive punches from Superman (at full strength) without significant damage (bruising). can survive supermans heat vision without serious damage.

Reaction Speed: Able to fight Superman in hand to hand, so maybe around at least 10 times normal human.

Omega Beams: Capable of hurting (and potentially destroying) beings as durable as Superman.

#5 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Darkseid for the win. He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win. That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams. From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark."
Mar-vell is much stronger and more durable than I think you give credit for, though I agree Darksied is stronger than him. I think with the Nega-Bands Mar-Vell could absorb the energy from the Omega Beams. And with his cosmic awareness he would be ready for it coming. "
Marvel Strength: 10 tonnes (due to solar radiation experiment), 15 tonnes with Nega bands Durability: Superhuman. Able to resist bullets and punches from superhumanly strong opponents. However durability not at the level of the Thing for instance. Durability provided via Nega bands. Without them, he is slightly tougher than a Kree soldier (so perhaps twice peak human). Reaction Speed: Enhanced human. So maybe 3 - 4 times that of a human. Flight Speed: Several hundred mph in atmosphere (thansk to solar experiment). Capable of entering hyperspace in space (thanks to nega bands). Energy Blasts: Can fire solar energy blasts that can melt/deform steel. Dakseid Strength: Able half that of Superman, so around 1.3 million tonnes Durability; Able to survive punches from Superman (at full strength) without significant damage (bruising). can survive supermans heat vision without serious damage. Reaction Speed: Able to fight Superman in hand to hand, so maybe around at least 10 times normal human. Omega Beams: Capable of hurting (and potentially destroying) beings as durable as Superman. "
Where do you get your stats from cause Spider-Man reacts at 15 times faster than a normal human maybe faster now. You think he is faster than Superman and Mar-Vell?
#6 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos.

#7 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Darkseid for the win. He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win. That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams. From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark."
Mar-vell is much stronger and more durable than I think you give credit for, though I agree Darksied is stronger than him. I think with the Nega-Bands Mar-Vell could absorb the energy from the Omega Beams. And with his cosmic awareness he would be ready for it coming. "
Marvel Strength: 10 tonnes (due to solar radiation experiment), 15 tonnes with Nega bands Durability: Superhuman. Able to resist bullets and punches from superhumanly strong opponents. However durability not at the level of the Thing for instance. Durability provided via Nega bands. Without them, he is slightly tougher than a Kree soldier (so perhaps twice peak human). Reaction Speed: Enhanced human. So maybe 3 - 4 times that of a human. Flight Speed: Several hundred mph in atmosphere (thansk to solar experiment). Capable of entering hyperspace in space (thanks to nega bands). Energy Blasts: Can fire solar energy blasts that can melt/deform steel. Dakseid Strength: Able half that of Superman, so around 1.3 million tonnes Durability; Able to survive punches from Superman (at full strength) without significant damage (bruising). can survive supermans heat vision without serious damage. Reaction Speed: Able to fight Superman in hand to hand, so maybe around at least 10 times normal human. Omega Beams: Capable of hurting (and potentially destroying) beings as durable as Superman. "
Where do you get your stats from cause Spider-Man reacts at 15 times faster than a normal human maybe faster now. You think he is faster than Superman and Mar-Vell? "

I get them from the older marvel handbooks (hole punched and comic versions). His strength was clearly defined.

His reaction speed and agility: Enhanced human - less than superhuman, but above peak human.

His durability was described as superhuman but quantified further in the non-hole punched versions.

As for Thanos, he can fight against Superman going all out - hence strength, durability, agility and reaction speed stats. So using Superman as a benchmark here.

Darkseid as a DC character is not comparable to spiderman stictly speaking. He should be benechmarked against other DC characters but this raises the old argument about DC power levels vs Marvel ones. Finally Darkseids stats are further supported by official DC RPG figures for him vs other DC characters.

#8 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."

No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America).

The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes.

With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes.

These were the officially published figures.

Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger.

You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow.

I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark.

He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter).

Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels.

#9 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them.
#10 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one.

#11 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13
#12 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"

reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable.

#13 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"
reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable."
Quicksilver also can't react as fast as Superman. But thats besides the point. I have already stated that Cap Marvel has been able to battle Thanos and hurt him. So if he can do it to Thanos in theory he should beable to do it to Darkseid.
#14 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"
reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable."
Quicksilver also can't react as fast as Superman. But thats besides the point. I have already stated that Cap Marvel has been able to battle Thanos and hurt him. So if he can do it to Thanos in theory he should beable to do it to Darkseid."

hurt him, yes. but beat him i really doubt that. as soon as the omega effect hits him hes dead.

#15 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"
reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable."
Quicksilver also can't react as fast as Superman. But thats besides the point. I have already stated that Cap Marvel has been able to battle Thanos and hurt him. So if he can do it to Thanos in theory he should beable to do it to Darkseid. "
hurt him, yes. but beat him i really doubt that. as soon as the omega effect hits him hes dead."
As I said, He should beable to absorb the Omega Beams
#16 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"
reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable."
Quicksilver also can't react as fast as Superman. But thats besides the point. I have already stated that Cap Marvel has been able to battle Thanos and hurt him. So if he can do it to Thanos in theory he should beable to do it to Darkseid. "
hurt him, yes. but beat him i really doubt that. as soon as the omega effect hits him hes dead."
As I said, He should beable to absorb the Omega Beams"

maybe. i don't know the full power of Captain Mar'vell just know a few things.

#17 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"Nobody says:
"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."
He doesn't know his reaction times. At least not for this battle.
Post Edited:2007-10-24 14:35:13"
reactions want matter if you cant hurt them. That's like, quick silver punching Superman, he wont hurt him, because he's way more durable."
Quicksilver also can't react as fast as Superman. But thats besides the point. I have already stated that Cap Marvel has been able to battle Thanos and hurt him. So if he can do it to Thanos in theory he should beable to do it to Darkseid. "
hurt him, yes. but beat him i really doubt that. as soon as the omega effect hits him hes dead."
As I said, He should beable to absorb the Omega Beams "
maybe. i don't know the full power of Captain Mar'vell just know a few things."
I know he naturally absorbs solor radation like Superman does. But he can also absorb other forms of energy through his nega-bands.
#18 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"I know he naturally absorbs solor radation like Superman does. But he can also absorb other forms of energy through his nega-bands."

in theory, could he absorb the Omega Beams then?

M

#19 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"Nobody says:
"I know he naturally absorbs solor radation like Superman does. But he can also absorb other forms of energy through his nega-bands."
in theory, could he absorb the Omega Beams then? M "
Thats what I am thinking unless there is some weirdness to them. Like its not acutally energy.
#20 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Darksied.

#21 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them. "

Capt Marvel could only absorb Solar radiation through his skin to power his flight and strength. He cannot absorb other energy types - especially not the omega beams which is not so much an energy type but a plot device in beam form. The beam can disintegrate matter. How can you absorb a beam that disintegrates any matter it touches ?

As for dodging them, capt Marvel would need to react at Superman speeds and fly at Superman speeds as the beams are as fast a projected plasma beam apparaently.

Even if he could get the Negabands up (like Wonder Woman) to absorb/defelct them, he would need to have her reaction speed and he does not.

I have laid out his originally quoted reaction speed and strength for you - these were the ones posted for when he was fighting Thanos back in the 80's.

If Marvel have boosted his strength - they can (as they have dome with many other characters - Spiderman, Luke Cage, Venom and the list goes on) but they do so at the expense of his history.

Please tell me where do they now quote his strength at 75 - 100 tonnes ?

#22 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."

Thanks.

#23 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them. "
Capt Marvel could only absorb Solar radiation through his skin to power his flight and strength. He cannot absorb other energy types - especially not the omega beams which is not so much an energy type but a plot device in beam form. The beam can disintegrate matter. How can you absorb a beam that disintegrates any matter it touches ? As for dodging them, capt Marvel would need to react at Superman speeds and fly at Superman speeds as the beams are as fast a projected plasma beam apparaently. Even if he could get the Negabands up (like Wonder Woman) to absorb/defelct them, he would need to have her reaction speed and he does not. I have laid out his originally quoted reaction speed and strength for you - these were the ones posted for when he was fighting Thanos back in the 80's. If Marvel have boosted his strength - they can (as they have dome with many other characters - Spiderman, Luke Cage, Venom and the list goes on) but they do so at the expense of his history. Please tell me where do they now quote his strength at 75 - 100 tonnes ? "
Last I checked on the Nega-Bands it could absorb energy. So it should beable to absorb the energy of the Omega-Beams and with his Cosmic Awareness he would be ready for it. As for his stats: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_%28Mar-Vell%29Intelligence: 5(Genius)Strength: 6 (75 tons to 100 tons)Speed: 7 (Warp Speed)Durability: 6 (Superhuman)Energy Projection: 6 (Mulitple Forms of Energy Projection)Fighting Skills: 6 (Master of Multiple Forms of Combat)For the Genius comes from being a part of an alien race more intelligent than humans. Strength, well we are discussin this. Speed probably comes from his hyperspace travel and teleporting to the Negative Zone. I believe in atomsphere travel he would be a 5 which is Super Sonic to Orbital Volcity. Durability he is Superhuman. This is beyond bulletproof and it on a level from guys like Thing to Thor. Energy Projection comes from the solor energy and energy he can produce due to the Nega-bands. Fighting skills I don't think I have to discuss.
#24 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them. "
Capt Marvel could only absorb Solar radiation through his skin to power his flight and strength. He cannot absorb other energy types - especially not the omega beams which is not so much an energy type but a plot device in beam form. The beam can disintegrate matter. How can you absorb a beam that disintegrates any matter it touches ? As for dodging them, capt Marvel would need to react at Superman speeds and fly at Superman speeds as the beams are as fast a projected plasma beam apparaently. Even if he could get the Negabands up (like Wonder Woman) to absorb/defelct them, he would need to have her reaction speed and he does not. I have laid out his originally quoted reaction speed and strength for you - these were the ones posted for when he was fighting Thanos back in the 80's. If Marvel have boosted his strength - they can (as they have dome with many other characters - Spiderman, Luke Cage, Venom and the list goes on) but they do so at the expense of his history. Please tell me where do they now quote his strength at 75 - 100 tonnes ? "
Last I checked on the Nega-Bands it could absorb energy. So it should beable to absorb the energy of the Omega-Beams and with his Cosmic Awareness he would be ready for it. As for his stats: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_%28Mar-Vell%29 Intelligence: 5(Genius) Strength: 6 (75 tons to 100 tons) Speed: 7 (Warp Speed) Durability: 6 (Superhuman) Energy Projection: 6 (Mulitple Forms of Energy Projection) Fighting Skills: 6 (Master of Multiple Forms of Combat) For the Genius comes from being a part of an alien race more intelligent than humans. Strength, well we are discussin this. Speed probably comes from his hyperspace travel and teleporting to the Negative Zone. I believe in atomsphere travel he would be a 5 which is Super Sonic to Orbital Volcity. Durability he is Superhuman. This is beyond bulletproof and it on a level from guys like Thing to Thor. Energy Projection comes from the solor energy and energy he can produce due to the Nega-bands. Fighting skills I don't think I have to discuss. "

As I said, I don't think the Negabands can absorb the Omega energy as it not energy as such like sonics, light or heat.

It is an effect - Darkseid wishes you destroyed - the beams make it happen. They can also resuurect beings that have been previously destroyed by the beams.

There have been cases to show that this may be down to time contium control but I cannot support it with evidence.

Could the nega bands absorb the Silver Surfers ability to molecularly alter them ?

If the answer is no, then the bands cannot then absorb the Omega beams. They are shown as an energy projection for it to be visually striking - not an invisible nebulous effect.

As for Marvel's stats, well there you go.

They went and upped Marvel as well - and not just slightly. Pretty much in these areas he has been really suped up.

He was more likely originally

Int: 4 (at most)

Str: 4 (upto 25 tonnes)

Speed: 4 (7 in space)

Durability: 5

Energy projection: 3 or 4 (1 type - Solar)

Fighting Skills: 5

I still would not rate a significant reaction speed increase much above 3 - 4 times human. This would seem to put him in the same league as Thor (ref Older handbooks).

Even at these levels he strength would be insufficient to really damage or get past Darkseids invulnerability. It takes Orion level strength (who is as strong as Darkseid) to begin to hurt Darkesid and Marvel (even with the new stats) is just not that strong.

Also Darkseid has virtually unlimited endurance, able to fight for months without rest. As a New God his brain also requires less sleep than many organics do.

Stack this against capt Marvel, who I would think still has less endurance than the Hulk, who can fight for around a week before tirdness sets in.

#25 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them. "
Capt Marvel could only absorb Solar radiation through his skin to power his flight and strength. He cannot absorb other energy types - especially not the omega beams which is not so much an energy type but a plot device in beam form. The beam can disintegrate matter. How can you absorb a beam that disintegrates any matter it touches ? As for dodging them, capt Marvel would need to react at Superman speeds and fly at Superman speeds as the beams are as fast a projected plasma beam apparaently. Even if he could get the Negabands up (like Wonder Woman) to absorb/defelct them, he would need to have her reaction speed and he does not. I have laid out his originally quoted reaction speed and strength for you - these were the ones posted for when he was fighting Thanos back in the 80's. If Marvel have boosted his strength - they can (as they have dome with many other characters - Spiderman, Luke Cage, Venom and the list goes on) but they do so at the expense of his history. Please tell me where do they now quote his strength at 75 - 100 tonnes ? "
Last I checked on the Nega-Bands it could absorb energy. So it should beable to absorb the energy of the Omega-Beams and with his Cosmic Awareness he would be ready for it. As for his stats: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_%28Mar-Vell%29 Intelligence: 5(Genius) Strength: 6 (75 tons to 100 tons) Speed: 7 (Warp Speed) Durability: 6 (Superhuman) Energy Projection: 6 (Mulitple Forms of Energy Projection) Fighting Skills: 6 (Master of Multiple Forms of Combat) For the Genius comes from being a part of an alien race more intelligent than humans. Strength, well we are discussin this. Speed probably comes from his hyperspace travel and teleporting to the Negative Zone. I believe in atomsphere travel he would be a 5 which is Super Sonic to Orbital Volcity. Durability he is Superhuman. This is beyond bulletproof and it on a level from guys like Thing to Thor. Energy Projection comes from the solor energy and energy he can produce due to the Nega-bands. Fighting skills I don't think I have to discuss. "
As I said, I don't think the Negabands can absorb the Omega energy as it not energy as such like sonics, light or heat. It is an effect - Darkseid wishes you destroyed - the beams make it happen. They can also resuurect beings that have been previously destroyed by the beams. There have been cases to show that this may be down to time contium control but I cannot support it with evidence. Could the nega bands absorb the Silver Surfers ability to molecularly alter them ? If the answer is no, then the bands cannot then absorb the Omega beams. They are shown as an energy projection for it to be visually striking - not an invisible nebulous effect. As for Marvel's stats, well there you go. They went and upped Marvel as well - and not just slightly. Pretty much in these areas he has been really suped up. He was more likely originally Int: 4 (at most) Str: 4 (upto 25 tonnes) Speed: 4 (7 in space) Durability: 5 Energy projection: 3 or 4 (1 type - Solar) Fighting Skills: 5 I still would not rate a significant reaction speed increase much above 3 - 4 times human. This would seem to put him in the same league as Thor (ref Older handbooks). Even at these levels he strength would be insufficient to really damage or get past Darkseids invulnerability. It takes Orion level strength (who is as strong as Darkseid) to begin to hurt Darkesid and Marvel (even with the new stats) is just not that strong. Also Darkseid has virtually unlimited endurance, able to fight for months without rest. As a New God his brain also requires less sleep than many organics do. Stack this against capt Marvel, who I would think still has less endurance than the Hulk, who can fight for around a week before tirdness sets in. "
I do agree it would be difficult for Mar-Vell to pull off if he could at all. The big deciding factor I think is the Omega Effect. If Mar-Vell is able to absorb it he should be fine cause he can stay out of range of Darksied's hand(Darksied can't fly) and then just keep blasting him.Creator where do you get your stats from? Sometimes I agree with them but other times they seem off. Like the reaction time on this I don't agree, due to Spider-Man being able to react at 15 + normal. I would think guys like Superman would react faster. I am just curious if you get them from a handbook or something.
#26 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

I also remember Captain Marvel was able to harm Black Adam in the Avengers/JLA series which was cannon. It doesn't show how much though or what happened before that. As soon as I get this scanner working I can upload the picture of it.

#27 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"Creator where do you get your stats from? Sometimes I agree with them but other times they seem off. Like the reaction time on this I don't agree, due to Spider-Man being able to react at 15 + normal. I would think guys like Superman would react faster. I am just curious if you get them from a handbook or something."

Where did he say that Superman reacts somewhere below 15 times human?

#28 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Nobody says:
"Creator where do you get your stats from? Sometimes I agree with them but other times they seem off. Like the reaction time on this I don't agree, due to Spider-Man being able to react at 15 + normal. I would think guys like Superman would react faster. I am just curious if you get them from a handbook or something. "
Where did he say that Superman reacts somewhere below 15 times human?"

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Darkseid for the win. He is so much stronger and durable than Marvel, it is an easy win. That's before we bring in the use of the Omega Beams. From Thanos's appearanaces, I would say that when marvel fought him he was weaker than his mosr recent incarnations, so this may not be the best benchmark."
Mar-vell is much stronger and more durable than I think you give credit for, though I agree Darksied is stronger than him. I think with the Nega-Bands Mar-Vell could absorb the energy from the Omega Beams. And with his cosmic awareness he would be ready for it coming. "
Marvel Strength: 10 tonnes (due to solar radiation experiment), 15 tonnes with Nega bands Durability: Superhuman. Able to resist bullets and punches from superhumanly strong opponents. However durability not at the level of the Thing for instance. Durability provided via Nega bands. Without them, he is slightly tougher than a Kree soldier (so perhaps twice peak human). Reaction Speed: Enhanced human. So maybe 3 - 4 times that of a human. Flight Speed: Several hundred mph in atmosphere (thansk to solar experiment). Capable of entering hyperspace in space (thanks to nega bands). Energy Blasts: Can fire solar energy blasts that can melt/deform steel. Dakseid Strength: Able half that of Superman, so around 1.3 million tonnes Durability; Able to survive punches from Superman (at full strength) without significant damage (bruising). can survive supermans heat vision without serious damage. Reaction Speed: Able to fight Superman in hand to hand, so maybe around at least 10 times normal human. Omega Beams: Capable of hurting (and potentially destroying) beings as durable as Superman. "
#29 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhh I see. That's not really saying that Superman is below Spider-Man's reaction time, only that someone at 10 times human reaction time can actually fight with Superman. But all of the reaction speed arguments are very debatable and are never really held constant in the comics themselves.

#30 Posted by Dormammu (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid wins this one, I havent seen anything about Mar-Vell absorbing anything but solar energy, and dont rely on Marvel.com's stats... they are totally whack.

#31 Posted by Terminal Velocity (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"The_Creator knows his stuff, so I will just agree with him on this one."

You were lured in here thinking it was the original Captain Marvel, wasn't you?

#32 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu says:

"Darkseid wins this one, I havent seen anything about Mar-Vell absorbing anything but solar energy, and dont rely on Marvel.com's stats... they are totally whack."
I have noticed this as well but it doesn't change the fact that he damaged Thanos and Black Adam.
#33 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"The_Creator says:
"Nobody says:
"Also Mar-Vell I believe started out at 10 tons then with solar radation put him around 20 tons. But when he gained the Nega-Bands his strength was increased dramaticly. I am not sure how high but Marvel.com has him in the 75 tons to 100tons range. Durability wise he has taken blows from the Hulk and Thanos."
No. Marvel started out at a kree soldier level - 1000 lbs - so above peak human (800 lbs for capt America). The solar radiation experiment raised him to 10 tonnes. Before this experiment, with the nega bands he could also lift 10 tonnes. With the 2 combined he could lifty 15 tonnes. These were the officially published figures. Don't forget that at this time, Spiderman was at 10 tonnes strength and Luke Cage was at 3 tonnes. So to these characters he much stronger. You can argue with the figure and think them an understatement, as since you point out he could hurt Thanos (not too much though) with a blow. I would persoanlly put him around the 30 - 40 tonne mark. He was not a true brick/powerhouse like the Thing but he was faster and his other abilities complimented his strength (not forgetting he was a great fighter). Also, although he was the Protector of the Universe, he did not have to be among the top etchilon of the Marvel universe power levels. "
As I stated, Marvel now has him at the 75 tons to 100 tons range. Which does sound about right if he is able to do any damage to Thanos. As for the durability he has taken hits from Thanos so why not Darkseid too? The Omega Beams are tricky, but I believe Cap Marvel would beable to absorb them. "
Capt Marvel could only absorb Solar radiation through his skin to power his flight and strength. He cannot absorb other energy types - especially not the omega beams which is not so much an energy type but a plot device in beam form. The beam can disintegrate matter. How can you absorb a beam that disintegrates any matter it touches ? As for dodging them, capt Marvel would need to react at Superman speeds and fly at Superman speeds as the beams are as fast a projected plasma beam apparaently. Even if he could get the Negabands up (like Wonder Woman) to absorb/defelct them, he would need to have her reaction speed and he does not. I have laid out his originally quoted reaction speed and strength for you - these were the ones posted for when he was fighting Thanos back in the 80's. If Marvel have boosted his strength - they can (as they have dome with many other characters - Spiderman, Luke Cage, Venom and the list goes on) but they do so at the expense of his history. Please tell me where do they now quote his strength at 75 - 100 tonnes ? "
Last I checked on the Nega-Bands it could absorb energy. So it should beable to absorb the energy of the Omega-Beams and with his Cosmic Awareness he would be ready for it. As for his stats: http://www.marvel.com/universe/Captain_Marvel_%28Mar-Vell%29 Intelligence: 5(Genius) Strength: 6 (75 tons to 100 tons) Speed: 7 (Warp Speed) Durability: 6 (Superhuman) Energy Projection: 6 (Mulitple Forms of Energy Projection) Fighting Skills: 6 (Master of Multiple Forms of Combat) For the Genius comes from being a part of an alien race more intelligent than humans. Strength, well we are discussin this. Speed probably comes from his hyperspace travel and teleporting to the Negative Zone. I believe in atomsphere travel he would be a 5 which is Super Sonic to Orbital Volcity. Durability he is Superhuman. This is beyond bulletproof and it on a level from guys like Thing to Thor. Energy Projection comes from the solor energy and energy he can produce due to the Nega-bands. Fighting skills I don't think I have to discuss. "
As I said, I don't think the Negabands can absorb the Omega energy as it not energy as such like sonics, light or heat. It is an effect - Darkseid wishes you destroyed - the beams make it happen. They can also resuurect beings that have been previously destroyed by the beams. There have been cases to show that this may be down to time contium control but I cannot support it with evidence. Could the nega bands absorb the Silver Surfers ability to molecularly alter them ? If the answer is no, then the bands cannot then absorb the Omega beams. They are shown as an energy projection for it to be visually striking - not an invisible nebulous effect. As for Marvel's stats, well there you go. They went and upped Marvel as well - and not just slightly. Pretty much in these areas he has been really suped up. He was more likely originally Int: 4 (at most) Str: 4 (upto 25 tonnes) Speed: 4 (7 in space) Durability: 5 Energy projection: 3 or 4 (1 type - Solar) Fighting Skills: 5 I still would not rate a significant reaction speed increase much above 3 - 4 times human. This would seem to put him in the same league as Thor (ref Older handbooks). Even at these levels he strength would be insufficient to really damage or get past Darkseids invulnerability. It takes Orion level strength (who is as strong as Darkseid) to begin to hurt Darkesid and Marvel (even with the new stats) is just not that strong. Also Darkseid has virtually unlimited endurance, able to fight for months without rest. As a New God his brain also requires less sleep than many organics do. Stack this against capt Marvel, who I would think still has less endurance than the Hulk, who can fight for around a week before tirdness sets in. "
I do agree it would be difficult for Mar-Vell to pull off if he could at all. The big deciding factor I think is the Omega Effect. If Mar-Vell is able to absorb it he should be fine cause he can stay out of range of Darksied's hand(Darksied can't fly) and then just keep blasting him. Creator where do you get your stats from? Sometimes I agree with them but other times they seem off. Like the reaction time on this I don't agree, due to Spider-Man being able to react at 15 + normal. I would think guys like Superman would react faster. I am just curious if you get them from a handbook or something. "

Well as I said, Capt Marvells stats are quoted from the older handbooks as enhanced human - not superhuman.

As for Darkseid's reaction speed - this is a little more difficult.

He has been shown to be able to fight superman and Orion in hand to hand combat and to do so would require some level of superhuman refelxes. To be able to combat the 2 combatants mentioned would require a higher level of reflex speed than perhaps normal for the new gods. Also drawing in info from official DC rpg suppliments, it would suggest that a figure around 10x a humans reaction speed.

I also tend to look at some of the known levels for people who fight against unknowns and then try to interpret what I see (as in this fight for supporting info - Superman known, Darkseod, more obscure).

#34 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe he is higher than what some older book has him at just becuase he does go up against Hulk, Thor, Thanos, Sub-Mariner, Ronan, etc. He would have to be in order to do any damage to them, not to mention him damaging Black Adam. I mean most on the Vine believe Thanos would beat Darksied and Cap Marvel has battle in more than once. Thanos even told Mar-Vell that he was his greatest foe.

#35 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"I believe he is higher than what some older book has him at just becuase he does go up against Hulk, Thor, Thanos, Sub-Mariner, Ronan, etc. He would have to be in order to do any damage to them, not to mention him damaging Black Adam. I mean most on the Vine believe Thanos would beat Darksied and Cap Marvel has battle in more than once. Thanos even told Mar-Vell that he was his greatest foe."

I for one do not believe that Thanos could defeat Darkseid - my opinion.

Thanos telling Mar-vell that he is his greatest foe does not mean that he is his most powerful foe.

How many times has Reed Richards defeated Galactus ?

Is he he greatest foe and thus his most powerful foe. I sure hope not !

I think that Thanos meant that Marvell never gives up - he always fought Thanos, either indirectly or directly, opposing him at every oppotunity and was very single minded about it.

#36 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"I believe he is higher than what some older book has him at just becuase he does go up against Hulk, Thor, Thanos, Sub-Mariner, Ronan, etc. He would have to be in order to do any damage to them, not to mention him damaging Black Adam. I mean most on the Vine believe Thanos would beat Darksied and Cap Marvel has battle in more than once. Thanos even told Mar-Vell that he was his greatest foe."
I for one do not believe that Thanos could defeat Darkseid - my opinion. Thanos telling Mar-vell that he is his greatest foe does not mean that he is his most powerful foe. How many times has Reed Richards defeated Galactus ? Is he he greatest foe and thus his most powerful foe. I sure hope not ! I think that Thanos meant that Marvell never gives up - he always fought Thanos, either indirectly or directly, opposing him at every oppotunity and was very single minded about it. "
That is a good point, him saying that doesn't mean he is the most powerful which I didn't think he was anyways.
#37 Posted by the creator (8560 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"I believe he is higher than what some older book has him at just becuase he does go up against Hulk, Thor, Thanos, Sub-Mariner, Ronan, etc. He would have to be in order to do any damage to them, not to mention him damaging Black Adam. I mean most on the Vine believe Thanos would beat Darksied and Cap Marvel has battle in more than once. Thanos even told Mar-Vell that he was his greatest foe."

As I said, I would have been happy to see him up around the 40 tonne mark, I think may have fitted in nicely as I seem to remember that he could not hold back the original incarnation of Drax the Destroyer - who at the time could lift 50 tonnes.

#38 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Nobody says:
"I believe he is higher than what some older book has him at just becuase he does go up against Hulk, Thor, Thanos, Sub-Mariner, Ronan, etc. He would have to be in order to do any damage to them, not to mention him damaging Black Adam. I mean most on the Vine believe Thanos would beat Darksied and Cap Marvel has battle in more than once. Thanos even told Mar-Vell that he was his greatest foe."
As I said, I would have been happy to see him up around the 40 tonne mark, I think may have fitted in nicely as I seem to remember that he could not hold back the original incarnation of Drax the Destroyer - who at the time could lift 50 tonnes. "
I don't know, I want to see what they are going to have him at in the new mini series.