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Edited 10 months, 8 days ago

Poll: Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) vs Wonder Woman (86 votes)

Captain Marvel 34%
Wonder Woman 66%
#1 Posted by dondave (38897 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman everytime

#2 Posted by 69ballzdeep (246 posts) - - Show Bio

remember CM was top of her class in military training and cqc. She has also recently shown that she can still turn into Binary.

#4 Posted by dondave (38897 posts) - - Show Bio

remember CM was top of her class in military training and cqc. She has also recently shown that she can still turn into Binary.

Carol's military training in no way compares to Diana's Amazonian training. Secondly, she had to be near a black hole to turn Binary, it's very unlikely that will happen during their fight.

#5 Edited by 69ballzdeep (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: the fact that it was Amazonian training is the problem. Her and her people are warriors but not superior warriors. Ther fighting style is outdated and confined to the island only. Ther still using bow and arrows (cold weapons). Carol's fighting style is modernised and is mix of styles studed from all over the world.

WW's fighting style is so outdated if it weren't for her amazing strength and endurance she'd almost be no threat at all.

#6 Posted by Experio (17240 posts) - - Show Bio

Carols only chance of winning is in her binary form.

#7 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6826 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: the fact that it was Amazonian training is the problem. Her and her people are warriors but not superior warriors. Ther fighting style is outdated and confined to the island only. Ther still using bow and arrows (cold weapons). Carol's fighting style is modernised and is mix of styles studed from all over the world.

WW's fighting style is so outdated if it weren't for her amazing strength and endurance she'd almost be know threat at all.

Wonder Woman is one of the best fighters in the DC universe; Carol would get demolished in every aspect of their fight. Carol isn't even a herald-level character.

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#8 Posted by 69ballzdeep (246 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6826 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength: uh, yeah she is.

If she is, shes a very weak one. She is nothing compared to the likes of Thor, Hulk, Superman, or Wonder Woman. Carol is like Wonder Man level at best when shes not binary. Wonder Woman will take this relatively easy.

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#10 Edited by 69ballzdeep (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength: dude u must not know anything about CM. she fights and beats Hulk and Superman level threats on the regular.

#11 Posted by SentinelOfLiberty (8 posts) - - Show Bio

In Infinity # 6 she actually went binary without a black hole if I remember correctly

#12 Posted by BeaconofStrength (6826 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength: dude u must not know anything about CM. she fights and beats Hulk and Superman level threats on the regular.

Mind if I ask for scans showing shes beaten enemies that are Superman level threats? Carol's only hope is going Binary and that still doesn't put her at Wonder Woman's strength and speed level.

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#13 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12660 posts) - - Show Bio

You should really state specifics of the battle but regardless I choose Wonder Woman.

#14 Edited by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: the fact that it was Amazonian training is the problem. Her and her people are warriors but not superior warriors. Ther fighting style is outdated and confined to the island only. Ther still using bow and arrows (cold weapons). Carol's fighting style is modernised and is mix of styles studed from all over the world.

WW's fighting style is so outdated if it weren't for her amazing strength and endurance she'd almost be no threat at all.

Are you serious? Military training is bare minimum. As I recall USMC has all of 2 weeks dedicated to CQB, and then you're just one your own, though I'm likely wrong. At most though, you get about a month. Not to mention Danvers is part of the AIR FORCE. That means the most she's likely had is BASIC, and that's not much. Sure, let's say she gets exceedingly good training! Why not? Welp, here's problem number 2:

Every single Martial Art you can name has been around for hundreds of years.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. If anything, people are moving more towards the old ways than moving forward. Once guns were easily produceable, martial arts and CQB were a thing of the past. We simply didn't invest the same amount of time. Furthermore, after almost 3 millennia of recorded martial training and development, we've basically sorted out all the ways to punch someone. Most of our modern wrestling is even based directly on ancient greek wrestling. Thus, the fighting style is clearly not outdated

Even more so, Diana clearly has a depth of expertise with modern weapons and tactics, as she has already shown. While it's true she still uses a sword, that's simply because often guns have no purpose for her. Why use a weapon that's slower than she is to engage things that are immune to most bullets anyways. However, we have gotten to opportunity to see diana fire a gun:

right to left, sorry :(

She shoots hades with Eros' gun from around 50 or so yards, which is an incredibly difficult shot to begin with, and she does it with ease.

So no, Wonder Woman is not out dated by any means. If anything, Carol is at an undeniable disadvantage.

#15 Edited by dagmar_merrill (10313 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by thanosi666 (35 posts) - - Show Bio

"normal" Ms Marvel vs. WW = WW Wins.

The Thread starter never specified Carol being in Binary form.

#17 Posted by 69ballzdeep (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosi666: well i didn't think i would have to mention it. I figured all abiltys they have should be included.

#18 Edited by thanosi666 (35 posts) - - Show Bio

@69ballzdeep: Oh I see! Well.... the battle can definitely go either way IF Carol gets in Binary mode. Still voted for WW because she does not have that specific condition thingy in her.

#19 Posted by dondave (38897 posts) - - Show Bio

@69ballzdeep: Oh I see! Well.... the battle can definitely go either way IF Carol gets in Binary mode. Still voted for WW because she does not have that specific condition thingy in her.

Carol would need to be next to a Black Hole to go Binary

#20 Edited by AllStarSuperman (23001 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: the fact that it was Amazonian training is the problem. Her and her people are warriors but not superior warriors. Ther fighting style is outdated and confined to the island only. Ther still using bow and arrows (cold weapons). Carol's fighting style is modernised and is mix of styles studed from all over the world.

WW's fighting style is so outdated if it weren't for her amazing strength and endurance she'd almost be no threat at all.

Well she did embarrass ( by herself ) General Zod, and Faora who have Kryptonian training.

#22 Posted by thanosi666 (35 posts) - - Show Bio
@dondave said:

@thanosi666 said:

@69ballzdeep: Oh I see! Well.... the battle can definitely go either way IF Carol gets in Binary mode. Still voted for WW because she does not have that specific condition thingy in her.

Carol would need to be next to a Black Hole to go Binary

Yup!

She can still absorb energy but, in the end, WW still wins. (^__^)

#23 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10839 posts) - - Show Bio

WW for the win.

#24 Posted by wederdire (87 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody here, think of it like this. Carol is EMH in marvel, but, until she can show what she can do as Cap. Marv. I'm going undecided.(EMH= Earth's Mightiest Hero)

#25 Edited by shackle (215 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering WW fans have been pushing her to be as powerful as the most ridiculously overpowered character in all comicdom (a certain Kryptonian), no one, including Carol Danvers, need bother to challenge her--she's the automatic win. Carol can take comfort in the fact that she is still a multidimensional character, however, and not the embodiment of some "ideal."

#26 Edited by NukeA6 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

@shackle said:

Considering WW fans have been pushing her to be as powerful as the most ridiculously overpowered character in all comicdom (a certain Kryptonian), no one, including Carol Danvers, need bother to challenger her--she's the automatic win. Carol can take comfort in the fact that she is still a multidimensional character, however, and not the embodiment of some "ideal."

I don't see how she's multidimensional. As far as Marvel females go, she's one of the most boring.

#27 Edited by shackle (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@nukea6: Hardly. She's faced personal tragedy, self-doubt, retired, come back, been persecuted, persevered, been crapped on like few characters in comics and rebounded, held multiple positions in the civilian/non-hero world. What you call "boring" others call "depth of character"; she has developed and grown, she doesn't owe what she is as a character to a writer who just "wrote her that way," she's earned it--the good and the bad.

#28 Posted by Evil Incarnate (4241 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not quite sure why people keep pushing these two to battle Carol isn't in Diana's league on the average and even as Binary it's still iffy.

#29 Edited by NukeA6 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

@shackle: That must be why her series is one of the best. Oh wait, it isn't and even had to be relaunched while the "lackluster" Wonder Woman has better runs. Just Rucka's run alone is better than any series Carol Danvers ever had. Pretty impressive for someone who's the embodiment of an "ideal".

#30 Posted by Klaus (575 posts) - - Show Bio

@69ballzdeep: Every form of martial arts were invented by the Amazons in DC. Amazonian fighting style consists of mixed and freestyle which is unique. Batman considers her the best melee fighter in the DCU, which, while believe isnt entirely true, she is definitely in the top 10.

#31 Posted by shackle (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@nukea6: Hey, lets apply that logic to other mediums--is Titanic the best movie of all time? American Idol had a much larger audience than Breaking Bad--does that make it a better show?

WW has no depth, period. She's supposed to be the embodiment of all things "feminist" while she fights crime in her swimsuit, but she's barely a character at all.

#32 Posted by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap

#33 Edited by NukeA6 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

@shackle: I don't know how that applies to my logic at all. I'm not even comparing the number of fans. I'm just saying Wonder Woman has been in much better comics.

It's funny you say WW has no depth and embodies things feminist when that was exactly how Ms. Marvel (or better yet Captain Marvel) is in her latest series. The last time I've seen any character depth in her was in Busiek's run. The only reason she has any fandom is because she appeared in Marvel Ultimate Alliance and starred in Bendis's Avengers. Even there, she was no different from Wonder Woman. I'd even argue she was worse.

#34 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

loses badly,she is way outclassed by wonder woman.

#35 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@shackle said:

@nukea6: Hey, lets apply that logic to other mediums--is Titanic the best movie of all time? American Idol had a much larger audience than Breaking Bad--does that make it a better show?

WW has no depth, period. She's supposed to be the embodiment of all things "feminist" while she fights crime in her swimsuit, but she's barely a character at all.

one thing WW's character is not it's one dimensional,there are different sides within her character,the way she seems to be a prisoner of her own mission,her life is a set of mixed feelings that make her go back and forth,between what her mother,amazons and gods want and what she wants,between what the mortal world expects from her as a hero and what she can actually do for that world and herself,we see how sometimes she would like to throw it all away and go back to paradise,sometimes she feels bad about her amazonian roots because of the dated point of view from the amazons towards men,sometimes she feels cheated about the patriarchal world,with the gods sometimes she feels like a mere tool,she has gone through many things in life,she if far feom having a fary tale life,and we have a very definitive concept of her character,she's compassionate to those in need,empowering women and girls alike that they are more than what they are and can be better,despite her situations with her mother and the amazons she was able to be a diplomat for Themyscria while at the same time be a heroine,she's the "spirit of truth" when it comes to the mythos of the character and is the "wise yet caring older sister" point of view to man's powerful demeanor,what she stands for?,equality,self empowerment,peace and truth,her biggest fear?,a person she can't help,her biggest struggle?,the fact that her journey for the truth and peace may never come to an end,so she may be an slave of her own cause,and how can she handle so many different sides in her life and how she tries to balance it all without going crazy,so one thing that WW has never been is one dimensional.

#36 Posted by WonderTot (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:

@shackle said:

@nukea6: Hey, lets apply that logic to other mediums--is Titanic the best movie of all time? American Idol had a much larger audience than Breaking Bad--does that make it a better show?

WW has no depth, period. She's supposed to be the embodiment of all things "feminist" while she fights crime in her swimsuit, but she's barely a character at all.

one thing WW's character is not it's one dimensional,there are different sides within her character,the way she seems to be a prisoner of her own mission,her life is a set of mixed feelings that make her go back and forth,between what her mother,amazons and gods want and what she wants,between what the mortal world expects from her as a hero and what she can actually do for that world and herself,we see how sometimes she would like to throw it all away and go back to paradise,sometimes she feels bad about her amazonian roots because of the dated point of view from the amazons towards men,sometimes she feels cheated about the patriarchal world,with the gods sometimes she feels like a mere tool,she has gone through many things in life,she if far feom having a fary tale life,and we have a very definitive concept of her character,she's compassionate to those in need,empowering women and girls alike that they are more than what they are and can be better,despite her situations with her mother and the amazons she was able to be a diplomat for Themyscria while at the same time be a heroine,she's the "spirit of truth" when it comes to the mythos of the character and is the "wise yet caring older sister" point of view to man's powerful demeanor,what she stands for?,equality,self empowerment,peace and truth,her biggest fear?,a person she can't help,her biggest struggle?,the fact that her journey for the truth and peace may never come to an end,so she may be an slave of her own cause,and how can she handle so many different sides in her life and how she tries to balance it all without going crazy,so one thing that WW has never been is one dimensional.

THIS!

#37 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: @experio: @beaconofstrength: new 52 WW still needs more feats,but against pre 52 WW i don't think even binary can win,WW has faced planet busters like superman,and survived full powered attacks from him and other characters with demostrated planet busting power,and if we also add the fact that even as binary she is outclassed in strength,speed and skills by WW,i think carol needs to be binary to prevent herself from going down in a stomp,because as ms marvel she is not even putting up a fight against WW.

#38 Edited by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel is a man not a woman.

#39 Posted by BoringPerson (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

Binary would still lose to WW.

#40 Posted by Experio (17240 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel is a man not a woman.

carlo davner is a woman and she is captain marvel from marvel universe,she used to use the name ms marvel before adopting the name of captain marvel.

#42 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana.

#43 Edited by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: Oh i know about her but didn't she lose her powers when she fought Rogue?

#44 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: Oh i know about her but didn't she lose her powers when she fought Rogue?

she has her powers back,and had an upgrade since then,she is now near 100 tons in strength,energy blats and super sonic speed.

#45 Posted by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: Oh but i still think Diana wins this.

#46 Posted by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: But for the record this is not a stomp

#47 Posted by DemonKnights (5394 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch. Diana wins 10 out of 10.

#48 Posted by leonkarlen123 (5633 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a mismatch.

#49 Posted by agent41 (4105 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: But for the record this is not a stomp

sadly it is an stomp,diana is way more powerful than her,she would need to be binary to be a fight for diana,as you can see everybody else agrees with that,even as binary diana has better feats,she will need binary to not be stomped by diana.

#50 Posted by LoganX360 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

MsMarvel VS WonderWomen ?? LOL Cmon !! , WW cant even beat storm

MsMarvel , Martial Arts at Kree levels , she can do liu kang bicycle kicks on Superman , & she can absorb all types of energy even Magic . ( lasso go riiiiip )

This would be like a DBZ Saiyan fight against Mr Satan faking the funk . i think Ms Marvel would Killer Instict combo WonderWomen while absorbing any wax powers & at the same time pooling all that Wonder energy into any stat she wants to... speed . strength ...etc..etc