Captain Marvel (Billy) vs Atrocitus

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slacker the hacker

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No prep

Pre Flashpoint

Morals off

Takes place in Fawcett City

Bill as CM

Winner by Death/Knockout

Captain Marvel - Alex Ross homage
Captain Marvel - Alex Ross homage

VS

Atrocitus the Red Lantern
Atrocitus the Red Lantern
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Dex_Starr

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#2  Edited By Dex_Starr

Billy is faster and stronger but I don't see him putting Atrocitus down.

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HolySerpent

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#3  Edited By HolySerpent

Billy

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TheWitchingHour

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#4  Edited By TheWitchingHour

I'll go with Billy as well but this should be a great fight. Really interesting match-up as well. Billy is faster, stronger, and I assume more durable than Atrocitus. Would the acid blood breath thing Atrocitus does affect Billy at all? Something tells me if he burned Billy's eyes out then Atrocitus can make up for his lower stats with viciousness and experience.

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jeanroygrant

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#5  Edited By jeanroygrant

Billy

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TrueIlluminatus

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#6  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@TheWitchingHour said:

I'll go with Billy as well but this should be a great fight. Really interesting match-up as well. Billy is faster, stronger, and I assume more durable than Atrocitus. Would the acid blood breath thing Atrocitus does affect Billy at all? Something tells me if he burned Billy's eyes out then Atrocitus can make up for his lower stats with viciousness and experience.

It's plasma that can melt Green Lantern constructs, so yes, I believe it could in fact harm Billy.
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TheWitchingHour

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#7  Edited By TheWitchingHour

@Illuminatus:

I don't know if Green Lantern constructs are a sure fire marker for durability. I've seen some instances where they have either been broken or disabled when logic would dictate they shouldn't be. But I agree that Atrocitus' energy attacks should harm Billy. It'd be a great fight.

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JediXMan

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#8  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

Atrocitus.

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eatmore_payless

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#9  Edited By eatmore_payless

Billy due to the fact that he is bloodlusted, so there is no stopping him from using all that SHAZAM powers in him, remember the time he fought Hal as the Spectre? yeah thats a good fight

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PowerHerc

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#10  Edited By PowerHerc

Billy has everything he needs to beat Atrocitus and would do that very thing.

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jeanroygrant

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#11  Edited By jeanroygrant

Captain Marvel looks fat in that picture.Any one else think so too??

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Saren

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#12  Edited By Saren

Billy.

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emperorznb

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#13  Edited By emperorznb

Captain Marvel.

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HolySerpent

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#14  Edited By HolySerpent

I'm loving the background of the picture of billy

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MrTerrafic

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#15  Edited By MrTerrafic

Captain Marvel.

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The_Dog_of_War

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Captain Marvel with low to mid-difficulty.

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LordWhiskers

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Atrocitus rips him in half.

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Vertigo-

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#18  Edited By Vertigo-

I'll back Atros. It'll be a good fight though

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LordWhiskers

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#19  Edited By LordWhiskers

@nick1994 said:

Captain Marvel with low to mid-difficulty.

No Caption Provided

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CramAndman

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Magical Superman trumps Power Ring that can't create constructs. Captain Marvel, all the way.

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LordWhiskers

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#21  Edited By LordWhiskers

@cramandman said:

Magical Superman trumps Power Ring that can't create constructs. Captain Marvel, all the way.

Red Lantern Rings can create constructs. And you must be ignorant of the fact that they give Red Lanterns shields and the ability to spew their acidic rage which eats away at Lantern shields. Billy would get stomped by Hal, Kyle, Guy or John and many other Lanterns. And they'd individually lose to Atrocitus.

No Caption Provided

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The_Dog_of_War

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CramAndman

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#24  Edited By CramAndman

@lordwhiskers: Apologies, I haven't been keeping up with the new 52 Green Lantern comics. Originally, Atrocitus and the Red Lanterns mostly just spewed Acid Rage Fire. Even with Constructs, I'm pretty sure Captain Marvel's strength and speed should carry the day. I believe he's stronger than a construct or a force-field. Right?

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LordWhiskers

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#25  Edited By LordWhiskers

@cramandman: This isn't from the New 52 this is Green Lantern Issue 54 which happened before Flashpoint and the changes to continuity. Billy is not stronger than Atrocitus. Atrocitus was breaking out of Sinestros Green Lantern constructs without a RL ring. No Billy is not stronger than the best Lanterns out there. He would get his teeth kicked in.

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The_Dog_of_War

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@lordwhiskers: Captain Marvel is physically superior to Atrocitus, and has overpowered Lantern constructs before, so I believe Cap would win comfortably.

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LordWhiskers

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@nick1994: Billy is not physically superior to Atrocitus. LOL. Has Billy overpowered Hal or Kyles constructs easily and beaten them? Because my point still stands that Billy would lose to them as well. Atrocitus' shields will protect him from anything he brings to the table, for what little its worth.

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Vertigo-

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#28  Edited By Vertigo-

@lordwhiskers:

Billy would get stomped by Hal, Kyle, Guy or John and many other Lanterns. And they'd individually lose to Atrocitus.

I dunno man, current Hal has the feats to suggest that he can beat Atrocitus imo,

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Batvibe12

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#29  Edited By Batvibe12

It really depends on who can overpowered first.

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LordWhiskers

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@blackestnight93: Pre Flashpoint versions? No they'd lose. Kyle could probably win more so than Hal or the others and certainly over Billy. If were talking current then perhaps with Hals whole willpower thing going on and destroying Warworld and beating Parallax Sinestro.

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Vertigo-

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#31  Edited By Vertigo-

@lordwhiskers said:

@blackestnight93: Pre Flashpoint versions? No they'd lose. Kyle could probably win more so than Hal or the others and certainly over Billy. If were talking current then perhaps with Hals whole willpower thing going on and destroying Warworld and beating Parallax Sinestro.

well, no, hence why I said current Hal. I wouldn't put post-crisis Hal at Atrocitus' level, and honestly, everything I read post 2004 for Kyle as a GL suggests he would get stomped as well. Most of his high end/good feats are pre 2004, and I'm iffy at judging Kyle at those levels still. But that's just me

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The_Dog_of_War

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@lordwhiskers:

Captain Marvel has never fought Hal as far as I know.

But Captain Marvel has fought Kyle in Underworld Unleashed #3.

Captain Marvel was weakened and had a broken arm, but Kyle along with Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Wally West, and Warrior (Guy Gardner) couldn't beat Cap while he was weakened.

That's only time I recall Captain Marvel fighting Kyle.

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Vertigo-

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#33  Edited By Vertigo-

@nick1994: scans of that fight? Because that smells of a massive high end feat, or an outlier for Capt Marvel, 3 characters alone there should beat him 1v1 (Can't speak on Guy because I haven't read anything of him when he had his Vulderian powers)

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CramAndman

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#34  Edited By CramAndman

@blackestnight93: @lordwhiskers: What's your appraisal of Lanterns' travel speed and combat speed? A lot of people claim they aren't as fast as Superman and Wonder Woman. To my eye, they're just as fast travel speed and I don't really put much stock in the concept of combat speed. What do you guys think?

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Vertigo-

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#35  Edited By Vertigo-

@cramandman said:

@blackestnight93: @lordwhiskers: What's your appraisal of Lanterns' travel speed and combat speed? A lot of people claim they aren't as fast as Superman and Wonder Woman. To my eye, they're just as fast travel speed and I don't really put much stock in the concept of combat speed. What do you guys think?

Well, the lantern I read mostly is Hal (he is the best after all). Travel speed wise, they're all MFTL no question about it. As for their combat speed, Hal and Sinestro have fought each other while going at clear MFTL speeds in Rebirth as an example. So there's that.

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CramAndman

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LordWhiskers

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@lordwhiskers said:

@blackestnight93: Pre Flashpoint versions? No they'd lose. Kyle could probably win more so than Hal or the others and certainly over Billy. If were talking current then perhaps with Hals whole willpower thing going on and destroying Warworld and beating Parallax Sinestro.

well, no, hence why I said current Hal. I wouldn't put post-crisis Hal at Atrocitus' level, and honestly, everything I read post 2004 for Kyle as a GL suggests he would get stomped as well. Most of his high end/good feats are pre 2004, and I'm iffy at judging Kyle at those levels still. But that's just me

In context to this battle I meant the Post Crisis/Pre Flashpoint versions. Obviously something like Hal Parallax or WL Kyle would stomp Atrocitus in the N52 or Post Crisis versions.

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LordWhiskers

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#38  Edited By LordWhiskers

@nick1994 said:

@lordwhiskers:

Captain Marvel has never fought Hal as far as I know.

But Captain Marvel has fought Kyle in Underworld Unleashed #3.

Captain Marvel was weakened and had a broken arm, but Kyle along with Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Wally West, and Warrior (Guy Gardner) couldn't beat Cap while he was weakened.

That's only time I recall Captain Marvel fighting Kyle.

Just read the series over and they were all mind controlled while fighting Neron. Lady Blaze then empowered him before they almost beat him into the ground. She even healed his arm. Lol. And Neron wasn't even using them to their full capacity he wanted Billy to kill one of them to break him.

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LordWhiskers

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#39  Edited By LordWhiskers
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TheKinfing

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@lordwhiskers said:

@blackestnight93: Pre Flashpoint versions? No they'd lose. Kyle could probably win more so than Hal or the others and certainly over Billy. If were talking current then perhaps with Hals whole willpower thing going on and destroying Warworld and beating Parallax Sinestro.

well, no, hence why I said current Hal. I wouldn't put post-crisis Hal at Atrocitus' level, and honestly, everything I read post 2004 for Kyle as a GL suggests he would get stomped as well. Most of his high end/good feats are pre 2004, and I'm iffy at judging Kyle at those levels still. But that's just me

That is only because of Geoff Johns massive bias to Hal/Barry, honestly if you look at Kyle's best or atleast standard feats Pre-Rebirth and his not-so terrible feats(getting wrecked by Sinestro while having Ion) Post-2004 he should be well above both Sinestro and Hal, let alone John or Guy.

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Vertigo-

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#41  Edited By Vertigo-

@thekinfing said:
@blackestnight93 said:
@lordwhiskers said:

@blackestnight93: Pre Flashpoint versions? No they'd lose. Kyle could probably win more so than Hal or the others and certainly over Billy. If were talking current then perhaps with Hals whole willpower thing going on and destroying Warworld and beating Parallax Sinestro.

well, no, hence why I said current Hal. I wouldn't put post-crisis Hal at Atrocitus' level, and honestly, everything I read post 2004 for Kyle as a GL suggests he would get stomped as well. Most of his high end/good feats are pre 2004, and I'm iffy at judging Kyle at those levels still. But that's just me

That is only because of Geoff Johns massive bias to Hal/Barry, honestly if you look at Kyle's best or atleast standard feats Pre-Rebirth and his not-so terrible feats(getting wrecked by Sinestro while having Ion) Post-2004 he should be well above both Sinestro and Hal, let alone John or Guy.

Eh, I don't know if you can consider his "standard feats" stuff from well over 13 years ago, in that length of time, the "standard" moved a good bit. Plus, discounting well over 10 years of lantern feats is sketchy.... although considering Kyle is back in the green uniform now, maybe he'll get some new and better feats in the coming issues. Never liked Kyle as a white lantern anyway, he was all hype if you ask me, never lived up to even an iota of his potential

But, I haven't read anything lantern related pre-2004 beyond Emerald Dawn 1 & 2 & Emerald Twilight, but I've seen some of the feats that people cite to put Kyle at such a high level. I'll get around to reading them someday

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The_Dog_of_War

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@lordwhiskers: But the 5 of them were unable to beat him into the ground easily, and Cap was weakened.

And no they weren't mind controlled.

On page 21 Captain Marvel thought Neron put them under a spell, but Neron said they were simply affected by the locale.

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LordWhiskers

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#43  Edited By LordWhiskers

@nick1994: They knocked him around and for a full panel before Blaze healed his arm and amped him up. The locale is Neron's realm so yes they were under his effect while being there. But thats beside the point as Lady Blaze was aiding him throughout half of that encounter. He might not have died, but he didn't have any hope of surviving against people who can beat him in a fight 1v1. You'd be kidding yourself if you think Captain Marvel with a broken arm can defeat Jonn, Wally and Diana on their own barring heavy PIS.

Regardless, none of this suggests he can defeat Atrocitus. At all.

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Tanaka917

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At first I thought Billy should take this because of bloodlust. The reason Shazam usually dies is because he's being stupid when he should be fighting the bloodlust gets rid of that. Then I realized this.

It's worth remembering the emotional state of the user direcly translates to power with lanterns. Atrocitus is a red lantern. Red is the color of rage in the emotional spectrum. A fully enraged, bloodlusted Atrocitus with a ring means he can harness it for all the power it's worth and then some. With this in mind I truly believe Atrocitus would win this

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The_Dog_of_War

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@lordwhiskers: I didn't say Cap could have defeated them, but he did endure there attacks while weakened, and after Lady Blaze returned him to full power he started to fend them off and had Martian Manhunter pinned to the ground.

And no Neron was not directly controlling them.

Captain Marvel thought Neron put them under a spell, but Neron said that it was simply the locale that was affecting them.

It's on page 21.

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LordWhiskers

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#46  Edited By LordWhiskers

@nick1994: He gets jumped by them and pinned to the ground. Lady Blaze then heals him and amps him up. You're over analyzing this and giving it more credence either due to bias or fanboyism and honestly it doesn't make sense. It still doesn't correlate to Atrocitus who can do this...

No Caption Provided

And then this.

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As well as break free of their constructs numerous times as well as shattering Hals.

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Now before all of this transpired Larfleeze had just one shot Atrocitus. Atrocitus was able to get back up and break free of their constructs. Prior to that he was slaughtering his way through Black Lanterns and having his heart ripped out.

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Vertigo-

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#47  Edited By Vertigo-

@lordwhiskers: Hell, Atrocitus could shatter lantern constructs even before he got his ring

No Caption Provided

shatters Sinestros casually during the retcon of Hal's origin story (exact issue escapes me, but I found the scan online)

Atrocitus still wins this pretty handily

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The_Dog_of_War

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@lordwhiskers: Lady Blaze didn't amp him.

She was the one that was weakening Cap, and then she decided to return him back to full power.

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LordWhiskers

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@nick1994: Amped would be the wrong word to use here, but again the point is that you're making 4 panels of this encounter a lot more than it is to be. Are you done because you're more or less wasting my time here.

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LordWhiskers

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