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#1 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (6462 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers have 2 days prep

Pre 52 DC and Current Marvel

#2 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

WM Thor is always a dangerous proposition, lack of speed or no. With 2 days prep, Tony can do some impressive things, as can Banner, and Cap can make a pretty solid battle plan.

Without the prep, I don't see the Avengers taking it. Too many street levelers. But with a couple days prep, they have a solid shot to amp people and make a good plan.

Leaning towards Avengers for a slim majority.

#3 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

WM Thor is always a dangerous proposition, lack of speed or no. With 2 days prep, Tony can do some impressive things, as can Banner, and Cap can make a pretty solid battle plan.

Without the prep, I don't see the Avengers taking it. Too many street levelers. But with a couple days prep, they have a solid shot to amp people and make a good plan.

Leaning towards Avengers for a slim majority.

Agreed.

#4 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

With 2 days prep,Avengers win.

#5 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

WM Thor is always a dangerous proposition, lack of speed or no. With 2 days prep, Tony can do some impressive things, as can Banner, and Cap can make a pretty solid battle plan.

Without the prep, I don't see the Avengers taking it. Too many street levelers. But with a couple days prep, they have a solid shot to amp people and make a good plan.

Leaning towards Avengers for a slim majority.

What about Hulk. Thor & Hulk together should seal the deal.

#6 Edited by dondave (38891 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers due to prep

#7 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Why? The problem with Hulk is that his lack of flight means he can mostly be ignored until the flyers on the team can be taken down. I suppose it's possible that he could be equipped with some sort of jetpack during Prep, but doesn't he weigh something like 1400 pounds in Hulk form? A jetpack would be inefficient at best. I think Avengers still have a good chance if Tony gives spare suits to all the streetlevelers and they whip up something cool with prep, but I don't see Hulk as a notable a difference-maker.

#8 Edited by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

BA and Captain Marvel should edge this out with prep.

Without prep, the Avengers get slaughtered.

#9 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor changes them back with his lighting by accident.

#10 Posted by Epicbeast3000 (956 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers freaking slaughters these two. Even without prep. Warrior Madness Thor alone could take on and beat captain marval or black adam alone, maybe together. You have the hulk helping Thor, This is a stomp in avenger's favour. People here are dc fanboys. Although they have lots of street levelers. Thor could probably take down atleast one of the shazam kids. The rest, Iron man has prep, so he could use his hulk buster to help Thor our, and Hulk could help out Thor with black adam and captain marval too. Thor without the warrior's madness could stalemate black adam or captain marval. With the warrior madness he beats them. His strength is increased 10 times. He would be ten times as strong as either black adam or captain marval , as their strength in my opinion is already very close. Plus Thor won't hold back in warrior's madness and will use all of his powers. Stomp in Avenger's favour.

#11 Edited by Beast_of_Brass (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that prep makes the difference in this battle.

#12 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@thundergodswrath: Why? The problem with Hulk is that his lack of flight means he can mostly be ignored until the flyers on the team can be taken down. I suppose it's possible that he could be equipped with some sort of jetpack during Prep, but doesn't he weigh something like 1400 pounds in Hulk form? A jetpack would be inefficient at best. I think Avengers still have a good chance if Tony gives spare suits to all the streetlevelers and they whip up something cool with prep, but I don't see Hulk as a notable a difference-maker.

I see.

#13 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor changes them back with his lighting by accident.

This.

@sethlol said:

BA and Captain Marvel should edge this out with prep.

Without prep, the Avengers get slaughtered.

Without Warrior's Madness, Thor would beat either Adam or Shazam. With it, he beat Beta Ray Bill & Silver Surfer together.

#14 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:

Am I crazy or is this the first time we've agreed on a Thor battle lol

#15 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (6462 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor changes them into humans again.

Or he and Hulk beats them to the death.

BTW, they can't touch Cannonball, who was able to absorb Gladiator's punch and redirect it on him.

Iron Man with 2 days prep solos.

#18 Edited by 14NC3 (1794 posts) - - Show Bio

With prep avengers take it. Iron man with prep and the avengers heavy hitters; captain universe, hyperion, captain/ms marvel, hulk and thor makes this a close stomp in the avengers' favour. Even without prep I think it's quite a close battle.

#19 Posted by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man with 2 days prep solos.

I am aware that avengers win, but this is soooooo wrong.

#20 Edited by Equonox (968 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers take it, but this nonsense about Thor changing them back is asinine. The "living lightning" is unique to the Rock of Eternity and its champions, Thor's lightning, however magical, is in no way, shape, or form able to counteract its effects or de-power them.

#21 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox said:

Avengers take it, but this nonsense about Thor changing them back is asinine. The "living lightning" is unique to the Rock of Eternity and its champions, Thor's lightning, however magical, is in no way, shape, or form able to counteract its effects or de-power them.

It isn't. Check it in "debunk feat" thread.

@pierpat said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Iron Man with 2 days prep solos.

I am aware that avengers win, but this is soooooo wrong.

...

Iron Man was able to cut Phoenix Force into pieces, depower Thanos from Cosmic Cube type artifact, used Asgardian's mineral to create armor that was drainning Odin Force from Thor...

#22 Edited by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Yes, for phoenix he had help(and not exaclty the help of dumb people, c'mon, t'challa and pym).

For thorbuster he had tons of info and the wright materials.

Noone has actually depowered this couple with no good knowledge, good magical abilities and time.Tony does not have 2 of these 3 requirements.

And, if it's not about depowering, he does not have anything to power himself up to beat 2 superman-level characters.

And, no way to convince me, i'll stand this point .

#23 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

They spend the two days placing Spider-Woman's pheromones into jars and when the battle starts, they throw the jars at Captain Marvel and Black Adam. Overwhelmed by the sheer amount of pheromones, they fall in love with Jessica and become her slaves :D

#24 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is the only one who will even be able to damage the Marvel's skin. They can literally ignore the rest of the team while they double-team Thor and destroy him. Then the others are just ants to be smushed.

#25 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

@czarny_samael666: Yes, for phoenix he had help(and not exaclty the help of dumb people, c'mon, t'challa and pym).

For thorbuster he had tons of info and the wright materials.

Noone has actually depowered this couple with no good knowledge, good magical abilities and time.Tony does not have 2 of these 3 requirements.

And, if it's not about depowering, he does not have anything to power himself up to beat 2 superman-level characters.

And, no way to convince me, i'll stand this point .

How You can say that there is no way to convince You?

Iron Man with prep KOd Surfer and Hulk.

Iron Man has acces to adamantium. To army of armors for different occasions.

@joygirl said:

Thor is the only one who will even be able to damage the Marvel's skin. They can literally ignore the rest of the team while they double-team Thor and destroy him. Then the others are just ants to be smushed.

They can't hurt Cannonball.

They actually are level below either: Thor or Hulk.

What is the reason to belive that Sunspot, Iron Man or Wolverine can't hurt them? Black Adam was hurt in WW3 by heroes who didn't have adamantium at their disposal.

#26 Edited by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Thor is the only one who will even be able to damage the Marvel's skin. They can literally ignore the rest of the team while they double-team Thor and destroy him. Then the others are just ants to be smushed.

They can't hurt Cannonball.

They actually are level below either: Thor or Hulk.

What is the reason to belive that Sunspot, Iron Man or Wolverine can't hurt them? Black Adam was hurt in WW3 by heroes who didn't have adamantium at their disposal.

SHAZAM. Uh oh, Cannonball is fried with magical lightning.

No they aren't. MAYBE Thor, but it's a stretch.

Dr. Sivana had Black Adam unconscious and tied up, and took hours and hours with a full, advanced lab, and was unable to penetrate his skin, after years of trying to figure out a way to do it. In WW3 Adam was being continuously flogged by basically every active hero on earth and all he had to show for it was a puffy face and ripped up clothes. Wolverine cannot fly and is therefore insignificant. Sunspot and Iron Man aren't going to hit the Marvels. Billy was able to fight and hold off Spectre during Day of Vengeance (before you mention him getting amped, that didn't happen for a while and he was still holding his own). Those three are irrelevant. Hulk, also, cannot fly, and is therefore not a threat.

#27 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

They can't hurt Cannonball.

They actually are level below either: Thor or Hulk.

What is the reason to belive that Sunspot, Iron Man or Wolverine can't hurt them? Black Adam was hurt in WW3 by heroes who didn't have adamantium at their disposal.

SHAZAM. Uh oh, Cannonball is fried with magical lightning.

No they aren't. MAYBE Thor, but it's a stretch.

Dr. Sivana had Black Adam unconscious and tied up, and took hours and hours with a full, advanced lab, and was unable to penetrate his skin, after years of trying to figure out a way to do it. In WW3 Adam was being continuously flogged by basically every active hero on earth and all he had to show for it was a puffy face and ripped up clothes. Wolverine cannot fly and is therefore insignificant. Sunspot and Iron Man aren't going to hit the Marvels. Billy was able to fight and hold off Spectre during Day of Vengeance (before you mention him getting amped, that didn't happen for a while and he was still holding his own). Those three are irrelevant. Hulk, also, cannot fly, and is therefore not a threat.

1.No, he isn't. His force field is inderstructible to my knowledge. It wasn't cracked even by Gladiator's punches.

2.Yes, they are. Show me planet level feats from either.

3.Which means that she didn't had adamantium or machines good neough to do it. His skin can be affected, as it was in WW3, Infinite Criss, by Superman, etc.

You seem to forgot that Wolverine isn't alone here.

Spectre jobs.

Yes, they will hit them, as they were hitted by many other heroes. Plus they have only flying speed in high level or at least they normally don't show any other.

Marvels has to come to Hulk, they can't shoot him from air. Not that Hulk wouldn't be able to jump or that Carol wouldn't be able to fly there with Hulk when they would be occupied by Thor, but it this whole "tactic" doesn't have a sense for me.

DC heroes are outclassed by feats of Thor and Hulk. They can't hurt Sam. They have close to no feats against high temperatures. Etc.

#28 Edited by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

I don't participate in debates that include the argument of "X jobs" anymore.

#29 Posted by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

@czarny_samael666: Yes, for phoenix he had help(and not exaclty the help of dumb people, c'mon, t'challa and pym).

For thorbuster he had tons of info and the wright materials.

Noone has actually depowered this couple with no good knowledge, good magical abilities and time.Tony does not have 2 of these 3 requirements.

And, if it's not about depowering, he does not have anything to power himself up to beat 2 superman-level characters.

And, no way to convince me, i'll stand this point .

How You can say that there is no way to convince You?

Iron Man with prep KOd Surfer and Hulk.

Iron Man has acces to adamantium. To army of armors for different occasions.

Hulk is way down the two magician's warriors in power, And i'd like to know in what occasion iron man ko'd surfer.Anyway here he gets only basic info, and in 2 days, alone, he won't pick up anything this good.

He'll get blitzed and die horribly.

#30 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5662 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers definitely going to win with prep. With Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, Capt.Marvel, Sunfire among others they take this.

#31 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@czarny_samael666:

I don't participate in debates that include the argument of "X jobs" anymore.

Then explain it in any other way it fits You. Defeating Spectre is hardly a feat that will be taken seriously.

@pierpat said:

Hulk is way down the two magician's warriors in power, And i'd like to know in what occasion iron man ko'd surfer.Anyway here he gets only basic info, and in 2 days, alone, he won't pick up anything this good.

He'll get blitzed and die horribly.

1.Based on? Savage Hulk was able to overpower force fields made by Stranger that were made to be powerfull enough to wipe planet out of its orbit. When they managed to hold a mountains?

2.In Defenders vs Avngers story that happened in the begining of the Defenders series.

3.I didn't want to come with this, but normally prep means that he know everything about them. Or at least everything that is known on Earth (doesn't matter which Earth). But he will bring something from high level. A specially when he doesn't know the threat. Army of Iron Men for the start.

Cap and BA don't blitz. They barely have any speedblitzing feats. A specially not ones with fast fight.

#32 Edited by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@czarny_samael666:

I don't participate in debates that include the argument of "X jobs" anymore.

Then explain it in any other way it fits You. Defeating Spectre is hardly a feat that will be taken seriously.

@pierpat said:

Hulk is way down the two magician's warriors in power, And i'd like to know in what occasion iron man ko'd surfer.Anyway here he gets only basic info, and in 2 days, alone, he won't pick up anything this good.

He'll get blitzed and die horribly.

1.Based on? Savage Hulk was able to overpower force fields made by Stranger that were made to be powerfull enough to wipe planet out of its orbit. When they managed to hold a mountains?

2.In Defenders vs Avngers story that happened in the begining of the Defenders series.

3.I didn't want to come with this, but normally prep means that he know everything about them. Or at least everything that is known on Earth (doesn't matter which Earth). But he will bring something from high level. A specially when he doesn't know the threat. Army of Iron Men for the start.

Cap and BA don't blitz. They barely have any speedblitzing feats. A specially not ones with fast fight.

Come on, i know quite well that feat of hulks, i even used it in a debate, but it's probably pis, hulk is often held back by 100. tonners.

And for gods sake, i had this discussion about prep with buckshot.If op does not specify, i assume no knowlege or basic one.

And c'mon, one of their powers is " speed of mercury" and you can't see them speedblitzing?

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Come on, i know quite well that feat of hulks, i even used it in a debate, but it's probably pis, hulk is often held back by 100. tonners.

And for gods sake, i had this discussion about prep with buckshot.If op does not specify, i assume no knowlege or basic one.

And c'mon, one of their powers is " speed of mercury" and you can't see them speedblitzing?

1.Hard to call it PIS IMO, considering that most characters who has that level feats were hold back by 100 tonners. But actually, my point was that Adam and Cap lacks of high end feats on this level.

2.Personally I don't see a reason to give prep in that way, since they are always preparing for some certain enemy/danger. But taking Your logic here, means that they have to prep for huge threat, Tony can think about all possibilities, including magic, telepaths, everything. Imagine adamantium bullets coming from invinsible guns that will float around...

3.I don't see it on panel too often, I don't recall them moving their fists like Superman and that is the point.

#34 Edited by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: being that Zeus makes the thunderbolt that turns them into their superhero for,s, that won't work, it has been faulty forever, don't make up a dumb hypothesis.

#36 Posted by Pierpat (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

Come on, i know quite well that feat of hulks, i even used it in a debate, but it's probably pis, hulk is often held back by 100. tonners.

And for gods sake, i had this discussion about prep with buckshot.If op does not specify, i assume no knowlege or basic one.

And c'mon, one of their powers is " speed of mercury" and you can't see them speedblitzing?

1.Hard to call it PIS IMO, considering that most characters who has that level feats were hold back by 100 tonners. But actually, my point was that Adam and Cap lacks of high end feats on this level.

2.Personally I don't see a reason to give prep in that way, since they are always preparing for some certain enemy/danger. But taking Your logic here, means that they have to prep for huge threat, Tony can think about all possibilities, including magic, telepaths, everything. Imagine adamantium bullets coming from invinsible guns that will float around...

3.I don't see it on panel too often, I don't recall them moving their fists like Superman and that is the point.

Well, just because they don't do it it does mean they can't or won't if the situation calls for it.

And if you say so, i can tell you iron man has not ever responded at a threat like this alone in 48h.

Come on, BA goes toe to toe with the 1st flash:

and about no high strenght feats:

Well, since we're here, let's just agree to disagree.

#37 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

who on the avengers has the speed to conted with TWO super fast beings on supermans level???????????? supes went to the sun and back in less than 2 minutes which calculates to about 28 times FTL so these 2 have to be around 20 times FTL. who on the avengers can react to that? nobody

#39 Posted by comic_book_fan (5931 posts) - - Show Bio

thor and hulk are all you need and it takes light 8 minutes to travel from earth to the moon so that would be around 4 times the speed of light and thor has traveled from earth to the moon in that period of time maybe faster in a v x during his fight with the phoenix.

and superman is atleast 2 times faster and stronger than these guys when he is really pushing himself

#40 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

thor and hulk are all you need and it takes light 8 minutes to travel from earth to the moon so that would be around 4 times the speed of light and thor has traveled from earth to the moon in that period of time maybe faster in a v x during his fight with the phoenix.

and superman is atleast 2 times faster and stronger than these guys when he is really pushing himself

i said SUN not MOON. supes traveled about 28 times FTL and these guys arent that far behind supes. Hulk is nothing in this fight unless he has combat reaction speed of about 20 times the speed of light. That goes for every body on the avengers as a matter of fact

#41 Posted by comic_book_fan (5931 posts) - - Show Bio

oh my bad I guess my mind just plugged in supes most common speed feat in place here.

but still it doesn't say bloodlusted so they will be fighting at normal speeds in which case thor and hulk can keep up and with prep iam sure ironman can cause problems for these folks.

#42 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

oh my bad I guess my mind just plugged in supes most common speed feat in place here.

but still it doesn't say bloodlusted so they will be fighting at normal speeds in which case thor and hulk can keep up and with prep iam sure ironman can cause problems for these folks.

theyre not bloodlusted but BA has no scruples. so he'll kill and have no problem with it. i think he's enough to solo a whooole buuunch of characters here. leaving BA and CM to fight with whoever is left which would basically be thor maybe and thats it. team wins.

#43 Posted by The_Voice_Of_Reason (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Since DC has stated that these two are both for all intents and purposes magical counter parts to superman this battle becomes a slaughter in favor of the Shazam twins. Both CM and BA are tireless and self sustaining, superman strong, superman fast, superman durable, and I think Black Adam has learned to channel the magical electricity through his fingers giving him a long rage attack for those who can't fly.

A fairer fight might include the Avengers+ the X-men maybe...

#44 Posted by Nightwing4 (373 posts) - - Show Bio

Two lightning/strength based beings fighting Thor the god of Thunder? Also since not specified, if assuming this is a fight to the death, neither can KO or kill hulk. I'm sure there's a fanboy who can supply scans of Hulk taking tons of lightning.

#45 Posted by JinSlayerX (131 posts) - - Show Bio

Imo it comes down to cap & adam vs thor and the duo will be too much for thor to handle. Duo win.

JSX

#46 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. Czarny has officially embraced his Marvel.

#47 Posted by MT_Revolution (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: with that being said the only threat they would face would be thor , hulk, and iron man if he uses the hulkbuster or makes a new suit just to fight them eitheir way thought black adam can take on thor while captain marvel fights hulkand iron man

#48 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. Czarny has officially embraced his Marvel.

What do You mean by that? I'm barely here in these days, but it seems very strange. Hulk and Thor have both feats above one shown above. And it was poiny out by others, not me, that normal lightning can turn BA into human.

#49 Posted by thanosii (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

going by current members Avengers have Thor, Captain Universe, Hyperion, wonderman and scarlet witch.... SW alone can solo as can Captain universe.

Wonderman and Thor can both win so can hyperion an cannon ball

#50 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: flight (movement) speed does not always equal reaction speed. I always consider these 2 characteristics separately.