Captain America vs Nightcrawler

Cap wins Round One, Kurt stomps Round Two.

Hmmm first one with morals propably goes to Cap because Kurt´s teleportation pattern is predictable as it has been stated. Round two without morals i think Kurt should win especially with his swords.

Nightcrawler 2/2. 
How is Cap going to be able to predict where Kurt's going to teleport?

Cap wins Round One, Kurt stomps Round Two.

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Luckily there are a lot Viners with muuuuuuch more knowledge then me to help me look only half as stupid. :-)

Rogue has done it as well, in Necrosha. 

Round 1 Cap
Round 2 Kurt
BB

Magneto did it one time.....

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Cyclops did the same thing, I believe. He has no precognition. He's just very tactical and quick on his feet - like Cap.  Cap would win round 1. But in round 2, all it takes is one 'port for Nightcrawler to win.

@_slim_ said:

@JediXMan said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Cyclops did the same thing, I believe. He has no precognition. He's just very tactical and quick on his feet - like Cap. Cap would win round 1. But in round 2, all it takes is one 'port for Nightcrawler to win.

I can see Cyclops be able to do that since he's known Kurt and trained with Kurt for years. So maybe his teleportation pattern would be predictable to him. But how often has Cap interacted with Kurt for him to do that?

I don´t think it´s predictable because of a certain habit of Kurt but more of a strategical pattern by Kurt. He tries to use his teleportation to the best of the tactical possibilites but this way other tactical smart caracters can react to that.

@_slim_ said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Many have anticipated Kurts teleportation, Sebastian Shaw has done it....Cap will do it

@JediXMan said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Cyclops did the same thing, I believe. He has no precognition. He's just very tactical and quick on his feet - like Cap.  Cap would win round 1. But in round 2, all it takes is one 'port for Nightcrawler to win.

I can see Cyclops be able to do that since he's known Kurt and trained with Kurt for years. So maybe his teleportation pattern would be predictable to him. But how often has Cap interacted with Kurt for him to do that?

@cattlebattle said:

@_slim_ said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Many have anticipated Kurts teleportation, Sebastian Shaw has done it....Cap will do it

Name some besides someone who isn't an X-Men or someone who doesn't have some kind of superhuman senses/precog.

@_slim_ said:

@JediXMan said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Cyclops did the same thing, I believe. He has no precognition. He's just very tactical and quick on his feet - like Cap. Cap would win round 1. But in round 2, all it takes is one 'port for Nightcrawler to win.

I can see Cyclops be able to do that since he's known Kurt and trained with Kurt for years. So maybe his teleportation pattern would be predictable to him. But how often has Cap interacted with Kurt for him to do that?

I don´t think it´s predictable because of a certain habit of Kurt but more of a strategical pattern by Kurt. He tries to use his teleportation to the best of the tactical possibilites but this way other tactical smart caracters can react to that.

@_slim_ said:

@JediXMan said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Cyclops did the same thing, I believe. He has no precognition. He's just very tactical and quick on his feet - like Cap.  Cap would win round 1. But in round 2, all it takes is one 'port for Nightcrawler to win.

I can see Cyclops be able to do that since he's known Kurt and trained with Kurt for years. So maybe his teleportation pattern would be predictable to him. But how often has Cap interacted with Kurt for him to do that?

He's probably read up on all of the X-Men. He held Nick Fury's place for awhile (does he still? I haven't been following Marvel), so it's conceivable that he would keep tabs on superhumans a bit.

@_slim_ said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Not senses on Wolverine's level but yes. And no precog but he does have the ability to make strategic decisions in an extremely compressed amount of time. Besides that, if morals are off, he will kill Kurt in a single hit. Round two is a toss up.

@_slim_ said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Not senses on Wolverine's level but yes. And no precog but he does have the ability to make strategic decisions in an extremely compressed amount of time. Besides that, if morals are off, he will kill Kurt in a single hit. Round two is a toss up.

@_slim_ said:

@cattlebattle said:

@_slim_ said:

@Stompa said:

@_slim_: Because IIRC it was Wolverine who stated that it´s predictable. and if Logan can do it so can Cap i would say. Don´t ask me how i would loose against Kurt. :-)

Is not because of Wolverine superhuman senses that Kurt's teleportation pattern is predictable to him. Does Cap have superhuman senses or some form of precog that would be able to give him some kind of an advantage as to where Kurt will appear when he teleports?

Many have anticipated Kurts teleportation, Sebastian Shaw has done it....Cap will do it

Name some besides someone who isn't an X-Men or someone who doesn't have some kind of superhuman senses/precog.

Shaw isn't an X-men and only fought them once before he was able to do it, and he doesn't have any precog abilities......Cap has met Nightcrawler more times than Shaw (at that point) and Shaw was able to do it

Really? People are saying Kurt loses due to predictability?

Think of the people who have been listed off for predicting him. Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue... all of them have been Nightcrawler's teammates for years. They've gone into battle side-by-side countless times, they've spent untold hours in the Danger Room honing their teamwork to absolute perfection. Of course those guys would be able to predict Kurt's teleportation patterns. Kurt's predictability does not come from Wolverine's superhuman senses, or his and Cyclops' tactical skill, as some have been trying to say. It comes from the fact that some of the other X-Men just know his fighting style inside-out from working with him for so long.

Cap, on the other hand, has worked side-by-side with Nightcrawler probably a dozen or so times in their careers. He knows who Nightcrawler is, what his powers are, ect. But he's not going to be able to instinctively guess Nightcrawler's 'port patterns.

That being said, I believe Cap wins the first fight (he's durable enough to tank plenty of hits from Kurt, but Kurt isn't durable enough to tank more than a couple of Cap's hits) and Nightcrawler wins round 2 (teleportation provides numerous methods for an instant kill).

@_slim_ said:

I'm not saying Cap wouldn't be able to tag Kurt. Just if he could react fast enough to hit him couldn't Kurt just keep teleporting around him hitting Cap or disarm Cap from his shield.

That would be a waste of time for Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler absolutely has to ensure he is not hit a single time in order to survive. Likewise, Captain America has to do the same. Trying to take the shield would put Nightcrawler in a vulnerable position. He would be better off trying for an immediate kill, like Cap will be going for. One will kill in a port, one will kill with a single punch.

Cap wins Round One, Kurt stomps Round Two.

@_slim_ said:

I'm not saying Cap wouldn't be able to tag Kurt. Just if he could react fast enough to hit him couldn't Kurt just keep teleporting around him hitting Cap or disarm Cap from his shield.

That would be a waste of time for Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler absolutely has to ensure he is not hit a single time in order to survive. Likewise, Captain America has to do the same. Trying to take the shield would put Nightcrawler in a vulnerable position. He would be better off trying for an immediate kill, like Cap will be going for. One will kill in a port, one will kill with a single punch.

Round 1 I say Cap

Round 2 Kurt more than likely.

@(((Prodigy))) said:

Really? People are saying Kurt loses due to predictability?

Think of the people who have been listed off for predicting him. Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue... all of them have been Nightcrawler's teammates for years. They've gone into battle side-by-side countless times, they've spent untold hours in the Danger Room honing their teamwork to absolute perfection. Of course those guys would be able to predict Kurt's teleportation patterns. Kurt's predictability does not come from Wolverine's superhuman senses, or his and Cyclops' tactical skill, as some have been trying to say. It comes from the fact that some of the other X-Men just know his fighting style inside-out from working with him for so long.

Cap, on the other hand, has worked side-by-side with Nightcrawler probably a dozen or so times in their careers. He knows who Nightcrawler is, what his powers are, ect. But he's not going to be able to instinctively guess Nightcrawler's 'port patterns.

That being said, I believe Cap wins the first fight (he's durable enough to tank plenty of hits from Kurt, but Kurt isn't durable enough to tank more than a couple of Cap's hits) and Nightcrawler wins round 2 (teleportation provides numerous methods for an instant kill).

I think it´s quite opposit. I think his pattern is predictable because he tries to use it in the most effectiv way and by doing so other tactical smart persons can see the pattern. And by doing so you don´t have to be fast enough to react after Kurt teleported because you will know where he will be going with his next jump so you can attack before the actual teleport was done.

Just curious, would Kurt be able to teleport away with the shield? Would Cap's arm go with the shield?

@Edgeworth_11 said:

Just curious, would Kurt be able to teleport away with the shield? Would Cap's arm go with the shield?

Only if he wanted it to.

@Stompa said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

Really? People are saying Kurt loses due to predictability?

Think of the people who have been listed off for predicting him. Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue... all of them have been Nightcrawler's teammates for years. They've gone into battle side-by-side countless times, they've spent untold hours in the Danger Room honing their teamwork to absolute perfection. Of course those guys would be able to predict Kurt's teleportation patterns. Kurt's predictability does not come from Wolverine's superhuman senses, or his and Cyclops' tactical skill, as some have been trying to say. It comes from the fact that some of the other X-Men just know his fighting style inside-out from working with him for so long.

Cap, on the other hand, has worked side-by-side with Nightcrawler probably a dozen or so times in their careers. He knows who Nightcrawler is, what his powers are, ect. But he's not going to be able to instinctively guess Nightcrawler's 'port patterns.

That being said, I believe Cap wins the first fight (he's durable enough to tank plenty of hits from Kurt, but Kurt isn't durable enough to tank more than a couple of Cap's hits) and Nightcrawler wins round 2 (teleportation provides numerous methods for an instant kill).

I think it´s quite opposit. I think his pattern is predictable because he tries to use it in the most effectiv way and by doing so other tactical smart persons can see the pattern. And by doing so you don´t have to be fast enough to react after Kurt teleported because you will know where he will be going with his next jump so you can attack before the actual teleport was done.

So you're saying that Kurt's idea of the 'most effective' teleportation pattern is one that anyone with an ounce of tactical sense can predict?

If that were true, Kurt would have lost half the fights he's ever been in. The entire point of teleportation in a battle is that your enemy doesn't know where you are going to be next.

@Edgeworth_11 said:

Just curious, would Kurt be able to teleport away with the shield? Would Cap's arm go with the shield?

Kurt has teleported a guy's helmet off without teleporting his head. He could 'port away with the shield without taking the arm.

@_slim_ said:

Nightcrawler 2/2. How is Cap going to be able to predict where Kurt's going to teleport?

Using his tactical experience he is able to know where is the most advantageous position, he has done that against Spider-man...

The Cap wins... BOTH ROUNDS...

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stompa said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

Really? People are saying Kurt loses due to predictability?

Think of the people who have been listed off for predicting him. Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue... all of them have been Nightcrawler's teammates for years. They've gone into battle side-by-side countless times, they've spent untold hours in the Danger Room honing their teamwork to absolute perfection. Of course those guys would be able to predict Kurt's teleportation patterns. Kurt's predictability does not come from Wolverine's superhuman senses, or his and Cyclops' tactical skill, as some have been trying to say. It comes from the fact that some of the other X-Men just know his fighting style inside-out from working with him for so long.

Cap, on the other hand, has worked side-by-side with Nightcrawler probably a dozen or so times in their careers. He knows who Nightcrawler is, what his powers are, ect. But he's not going to be able to instinctively guess Nightcrawler's 'port patterns.

That being said, I believe Cap wins the first fight (he's durable enough to tank plenty of hits from Kurt, but Kurt isn't durable enough to tank more than a couple of Cap's hits) and Nightcrawler wins round 2 (teleportation provides numerous methods for an instant kill).

I think it´s quite opposit. I think his pattern is predictable because he tries to use it in the most effectiv way and by doing so other tactical smart persons can see the pattern. And by doing so you don´t have to be fast enough to react after Kurt teleported because you will know where he will be going with his next jump so you can attack before the actual teleport was done.

So you're saying that Kurt's idea of the 'most effective' teleportation pattern is one that anyone with an ounce of tactical sense can predict?

If that were true, Kurt would have lost half the fights he's ever been in. The entire point of teleportation in a battle is that your enemy doesn't know where you are going to be next.

No i would say persons with a high degree of tactical prowess can predict it because they think the same way that Kurt does. Cap knows about Kurts acrobatic abilities and his teleportation so i think he can predict his teleports because he is a master strategist.

@_slim_ said:

Nightcrawler 2/2. How is Cap going to be able to predict where Kurt's going to teleport?

Using his tactical experience he is able to know where is the most advantageous position, he has done that against Spider-man...

The Cap wins... BOTH ROUNDS...

Even if Cap is able to figure out his teleporting strategy, he won't be able to do it instantly. It will take multiple ports before he can notice the pattern and discern the strategy. It won't take several ports for Kurt to grab him, port him twenty-thirty or so feet in the air, and drop him to his nonlethal doom. His incredible agility, training, and swords will also make Kurt tough to get close to. Nightcrawler, both rounds.

My spider-sense tells me this has been done before.

@_slim_ said:

@Deadcool said:

@_slim_ said:

Nightcrawler 2/2. How is Cap going to be able to predict where Kurt's going to teleport?

Using his tactical experience he is able to know where is the most advantageous position, he has done that against Spider-man...

The Cap wins... BOTH ROUNDS...

Spider-Man doesn't teleport. How does Cap win round 2 with morals off what's stopping Kurt from teleporting his head off or any other limb?

No he doesn`t, but he is like 15 times faster than the Cap...

EWW!!! That is sick... but you are right, I forgot that he was able to do that...

@_slim_ said:

How does Cap win round 2 with morals off what's stopping Kurt from teleporting his head off or any other limb?

A punch. Rogers has significantly higher reaction time so it is feasible for him to counter a teleport with a physical attack.

@Stompa said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

@Stompa said:

@(((Prodigy))) said:

Really? People are saying Kurt loses due to predictability?

Think of the people who have been listed off for predicting him. Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue... all of them have been Nightcrawler's teammates for years. They've gone into battle side-by-side countless times, they've spent untold hours in the Danger Room honing their teamwork to absolute perfection. Of course those guys would be able to predict Kurt's teleportation patterns. Kurt's predictability does not come from Wolverine's superhuman senses, or his and Cyclops' tactical skill, as some have been trying to say. It comes from the fact that some of the other X-Men just know his fighting style inside-out from working with him for so long.

Cap, on the other hand, has worked side-by-side with Nightcrawler probably a dozen or so times in their careers. He knows who Nightcrawler is, what his powers are, ect. But he's not going to be able to instinctively guess Nightcrawler's 'port patterns.

That being said, I believe Cap wins the first fight (he's durable enough to tank plenty of hits from Kurt, but Kurt isn't durable enough to tank more than a couple of Cap's hits) and Nightcrawler wins round 2 (teleportation provides numerous methods for an instant kill).

I think it´s quite opposit. I think his pattern is predictable because he tries to use it in the most effectiv way and by doing so other tactical smart persons can see the pattern. And by doing so you don´t have to be fast enough to react after Kurt teleported because you will know where he will be going with his next jump so you can attack before the actual teleport was done.

So you're saying that Kurt's idea of the 'most effective' teleportation pattern is one that anyone with an ounce of tactical sense can predict?

If that were true, Kurt would have lost half the fights he's ever been in. The entire point of teleportation in a battle is that your enemy doesn't know where you are going to be next.

No i would say persons with a high degree of tactical prowess can predict it because they think the same way that Kurt does. Cap knows about Kurts acrobatic abilities and his teleportation so i think he can predict his teleports because he is a master strategist.

So, even though he isn't a teleporter and has never worked with a teleporter (and, thus, doesn't know how to think like a teleporter), he will be able to predict every move a teleporter will make almost instantly, despite the fact that this particular teleporter can 'port multiple times in a single second.

Yeah. Sounds legit.

@_slim_ said:

How does Cap win round 2 with morals off what's stopping Kurt from teleporting his head off or any other limb?

A punch. Rogers has significantly higher reaction time so it is feasible for him to counter a teleport with a physical attack.

@_slim_:

Considering Rogers has the strength to kill with a mere punch, I would say that is enough. But I am sure he could think of more elaborate ways if you need them.

Nightcrawler in both rounds.

@weaponmaster said:

Nightcrawler in both rounds.

Not really.

I think Nightcrawler takes this. Like others said, a nice teledrop (non lethal one) or even taking away his shield would cripple Cap big time.

@Edgeworth_11 said:

I think Nightcrawler takes this. Like others said, a nice teledrop (non lethal one) or even taking away his shield would cripple Cap big time.

I wish people would at least read Captain America comics.......

I think its been pretty well debated in Caps favor that Cap could definitely take him morals on. Morals off is a different story as Nightcrawler could go limb removing

@cattlebattle said:

I think its been pretty well debated in Caps favor that Cap could definitely take him morals on. Morals off is a different story as Nightcrawler could go limb removing

True but so can Rogers.