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#1 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

Both at current levels, morals on, no BFR. 
 
Fight is to KO, who wins?

#2 Posted by Jake Fury (18396 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmmm..well current powerless Herc has punched Bruce Banner and that's about it.
#3 Edited by DeathsHead2 (1625 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment: 
 
Spite. 
 
The only Cap that has a chance against Herc is the Ultimate Cap, since he briefly KO'd the Ultimate Hulk.  But here, Herc wins 9+/10! 
 
#4 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury:
I would assume that current Herc is about peak human condition and Thor has stated that Herc is a better H2H fighter than himself. So is Thor a better H2H fighter than Cap? If so Herc may take this.
#5 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathsHead2:
Herc was depowered after chaos war.
#6 Edited by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

Depowered Herc would probably lose to Bucky. If it were Steve it would definitely be a loss for Herc. 
 
Here's hoping depowered Herc picks up a bow and arrow and gives Hawkeye a run for his money.
#7 Posted by Jake Fury (18396 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"@Jake Fury: I would assume that current Herc is about peak human condition and Thor has stated that Herc is a better H2H fighter than himself. So is Thor a better H2H fighter than Cap? If so Herc may take this. "

That'd be an interesting debate (Thor/Cap fighting skills). I'm not really sure about Herc's current physical levels on a superhuman scale.
#8 Posted by DeathsHead2 (1625 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury: 
 
Thor > Herc > Cap, in fighting skills.  Experience counts here, and the "gods" have VASTLY more experience than Cap. 
 

#9 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathsHead2:
Thor may best Herc with his powers and such but Thor himself admitted that Herc was a better H2H fighter.  
 
Where is the Thor > Herc H2H coming from?
#10 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Depowered Herc loses

#11 Posted by DeathsHead2 (1625 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment: 
 
Feats, battles, my own personal opinion, ect. 
 
; ) 
 
#12 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment:
Steve or Bucky would win 
 
Steve is physically superior to Depowered Herc and is a better fighter 
 
Bucky is a good fighter and can one shot Depowered Herc with his Cybernetic arm
#13 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathsHead2 said:
"@CapitolPunishment:  Feats, battles, my own personal opinion, ect.  ; )   "


 
#14 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23:
Herc has been trained by the GODS for thousands of years in H2H, not to mention his own experence in battle. Where are you getting that cap is better H2H? 
 
 
Please explain.
#15 Posted by Jake Fury (18396 posts) - - Show Bio

Until current Herc actually appears in a battle no one has any viable information to make assumptions about his durability.
#16 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"@comicdude23: Herc has been trained by the GODS for thousands of years in H2H, not to mention his own experence in battle. Where are you getting that cap is better H2H?   Please explain. "

So? 
 
Thor has been trained for thousands of years but it doesn't make him a better fighter than Lady Shiva 
 
Steve is a better fighter, but not by much. He's proven to be an excellent fighter 
 
Herc usually just gets into slugfests with Thor
#17 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
"@CapitolPunishment said:
"@comicdude23: Herc has been trained by the GODS for thousands of years in H2H, not to mention his own experence in battle. Where are you getting that cap is better H2H?   Please explain. "
So?  Thor has been trained for thousands of years but it doesn't make him a better fighter than Lady Shiva  Steve is a better fighter, but not by much. He's proven to be an excellent fighter  Herc usually just gets into slugfests with Thor "


 
#18 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"@comicdude23 said:
"@CapitolPunishment said:
"@comicdude23: Herc has been trained by the GODS for thousands of years in H2H, not to mention his own experence in battle. Where are you getting that cap is better H2H?   Please explain. "
So?  Thor has been trained for thousands of years but it doesn't make him a better fighter than Lady Shiva  Steve is a better fighter, but not by much. He's proven to be an excellent fighter  Herc usually just gets into slugfests with Thor "


 
"

This scan means nothing
#19 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc wins via sleeper hold.

#20 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"Herc wins via sleeper hold. "

They dodge it.
#21 Posted by Nefarious (19761 posts) - - Show Bio

Spite...

#22 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nefarious said:
"

Spite...

"

Um. No. 
 
Current Herc is depowered.
#23 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

"@CapitolPunishment said:
"Herc wins via sleeper hold. "
They dodge it. "


Herc would just grapple him down to the groud with his mastered greco-roman wrestling skills, apply the sleeper and fight over. If Cap manages to keep it on the feet for a few minutes Herc would wear him down with some Jabbs and leg/body kicks.

#24 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"

@comicdude23 said:

"@CapitolPunishment said:
"Herc wins via sleeper hold. "
They dodge it. "


Herc would just grapple him down to the groud with his mastered greco-roman wrestling skills, apply the sleeper and fight over. If Cap manages to keep it on the feet for a few minutes Herc would wear him down with some Jabbs and leg/body kicks.

"

Um. No. 
 
Steve is a master Martial Artist, and easily has enough Speed to move around Herc 
 
Bucky can one shot Herc with his Cybernetic arm
#25 Posted by Jake Fury (18396 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
"Until current Herc actually appears in a battle no one has any viable information to make assumptions about his durability. "
#26 Posted by Final Arrow (24388 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
" @Jake Fury said:
"Until current Herc actually appears in a battle no one has any viable information to make assumptions about his durability. "
"
I totally agree with this, Herc is a legendary wrestler and should be able to go toe to toe with Cap and maybe get an edge. But this is going of assumption as we don't know how Marvel are going to play this yet. So until we do we have no comparable feats to use in this battle. 
#27 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll take the Captains....for now...

#28 Edited by SlimJ87D (9677 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc and Thor are use to fighting with super powers for a long time. They don't seem to be able to do agile like feats, which play a big part in H2H. Bucky and Steve both mix in their agility with their fighting, and fighting in such an unorthodox fashion is hard to adjust to. 
 
Herc and Thor going H2H are use to grappling and boxing, but are they use to someone that can flip over you?  
 
 
 
 
Plus, if Herc is just peak of man, Bucky has defeated the Grand Director (A 2 tonner) who is experienced in combat and about 6 times stronger than him (He's twice as strong as Steve who is about 3 times as strong as Bucky).
 

@comicdude23:

  
I agree with everything you said. 
#29 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D:
Agreed
#30 Edited by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D:
Flips and gymnastics are for the Olympics, comics and gullibles. In real combat, those trying to look all fancy with acrobatics end up KO'd in a heartbeat. Ever see an MMA fighter dance all about the octagon? No. They save their backflips for AFTER they've won the fight. But hey, we are talking comics so why not? However, if writers would pause, take deep breaths, and stop jobbing Hercules for half a heartbeat he'd pound the crap outta Captain America. Can't believe you can say 'so what' to thousands of years of combat - more than this, Champions of said combat. More than this GODS of battle... heroes among the Gods really... I mean SHEESH. BIG Wolverine fan here for those that know me, and if it were hand to hand, Hercules would school Logan as well. Depowered or no (by hand to hand I mean Wolverine doesn't gut the man - no claws, just skill. Couldn't hurt Logan, couldn't KO him, but could school him in some hand to hand). 
 
Great match-up BTW. Very interesting debate to be had here. I go with Herc though.
#31 Posted by Sherlock (7255 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:
" @Jake Fury said:
" @Jake Fury said:
"Until current Herc actually appears in a battle no one has any viable information to make assumptions about his durability. "
"
I totally agree with this, Herc is a legendary wrestler and should be able to go toe to toe with Cap and maybe get an edge. But this is going of assumption as we don't know how Marvel are going to play this yet. So until we do we have no comparable feats to use in this battle.  "
I agree as well
#32 Posted by karrob (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

If all physical states are equal Hercules wins....

#33 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:
" @Jake Fury said:
" @Jake Fury said:
"Until current Herc actually appears in a battle no one has any viable information to make assumptions about his durability. "
"
I totally agree with this, Herc is a legendary wrestler and should be able to go toe to toe with Cap and maybe get an edge. But this is going of assumption as we don't know how Marvel are going to play this yet. So until we do we have no comparable feats to use in this battle.  "

I have not been a die hard Herc fan over the years but i have been following him recently. Has he ever been de-powered like Thor has been over the years? I know it has been shown that Thor is still a beast in hand - to - hand without powers, I was going more off depowered Thor feats, Herc would be right up there with his skill set, I would immagine better.
 
We will see more of depowered Hercules fighting the thugs in Brooklyn this April, lol. should be interesting
#34 Posted by Zaterra (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules

#35 Posted by PowerHerc (83333 posts) - - Show Bio

It may be too soon to tell, but I'm leaning toward Captain America (Steve) defeating a de-powered Hercules.
#36 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1656 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ramtha07 said:
"@SlimJ87D: Flips and gymnastics are for the Olympics, comics and gullibles. In real combat, those trying to look all fancy with acrobatics end up KO'd in a heartbeat. Ever see an MMA fighter dance all about the octagon? No. They save their backflips for AFTER they've won the fight. But hey, we are talking comics so why not? However, if writers would pause, take deep breaths, and stop jobbing Hercules for half a heartbeat he'd pound the crap outta Captain America. Can't believe you can say 'so what' to thousands of years of combat - more than this, Champions of said combat. More than this GODS of battle... heroes among the Gods really... I mean SHEESH. BIG Wolverine fan here for those that know me, and if it were hand to hand, Hercules would school Logan as well. Depowered or no (by hand to hand I mean Wolverine doesn't gut the man - no claws, just skill. Couldn't hurt Logan, couldn't KO him, but could school him in some hand to hand).  Great match-up BTW. Very interesting debate to be had here. I go with Herc though. "

This isn't "the octagon" agility matters in comics , that's why Spiderman fights Rhino and doesn't die , That's why Deadpool fought Juggernaut and didn't die , real life MMA cannot be used as the importance of agility in comics. 
 
Also Cap too has over a thousand years of experience so its not as if we're saying "so what" as Cap also has over a thousand years of experience. 
 
We have never seen Herc. fight without his Super strength , we can't say he's in Logan and Cap's league when it comes to skill as most of the people he fights aren't as strong as him and when we do see him fight people in his leage e.g. Hulk , Thor etc. he doesn't showcase a great deal of  martial arts finesse.  
 
I'm  going with Cap but we will have to wait for the next issues as Jake Fury said until we can see better how Herc. will deal with his new self . 
 
Cap ftw far better skill feats
#37 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainRodgers:
His people are gods. It's safe to say he's used to fighting oponents in and or around his strength league. And I don't care how strong you are, if you don't know how to fight, and the other person does, odds are against you winning. Though you're right, superhumans with agility and the ability to jump 30 feet in the air are a far cry from the octagon. However, Captain America, at his strength and speed levels, is a far, far cry from Spiderman in this regard. If he tries to be Mr. Gymnastics against Mr. MMA, with the same to similar physical attributes, then Mr. MMA will own him. A real fighter forgoes the fancy for the effective. However, even Spiderman uses said acrobatics to principally avoid, hit and run, dodge weave and whatnot... eventually, you have to come down to go hand to hand... (effective for Spidey only due to the fact he is superhuman in EVERY respect, whereas our good Captain is an enhanced human. Much different.) 
#38 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
" @comicdude23: Herc has been trained by the GODS for thousands of years in H2H, not to mention his own experence in battle. Where are you getting that cap is better H2H?   Please explain. "
Maybe because we are counting cap's own showings and we are not speculating Herc's skills because of his experience. 
Also, i have seen more impressive skill showings from cap. Also if we are going to assume that Herc is more skilled, then how effective are his skills in combat? 
I have seen cap using nerve strikes and pressure points to cause great pain or incapacitate his opponents. I have seen cap using his skills to overcome his opponent's superior strength when he graped him. 
I have also see him holding his own or beating fighters that they have some actual skill feats and we don't just use their experience to count their skill level. We are actually counting their own showings. 
=]
#39 Posted by ThaMessenger07 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

 Herc has greater Experience but it is experience with Power not Without. It's like a man that is a trained martial artist for 15 years and a Black belt becomes a Cop. He has a gun no and in any confrontation he uses it but still trains in techniques every so often. Now he fights some guy that has been training for three years practices techniques 5 days a week and has several in ring fights and many more street fights. The Cop has been through more violent situations and has more training as a martial artist. The reality is he has used a gun, tazer, cuffs, police baton, mace, etc..... for the past 15 yrs and has not actually applied his full on skill. Yes he may have fought other people with guns but once again they both were armed. 
 
The gun concept applies to most heroes with great Power. The greater the Power the more it generally applies. Herc is skilled but he knows what it's like to take a mountain shattering punch, not a 1,200 lbs psi jab that actually can K.O him, which before could not even phase him. 
 
Cap. Wins. Steve or Bucky. Steve being much easier while Bucky having to fight for it.

#40 Posted by Achilles. (3847 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve or Bucky Wins. Their speed is a major factor here. Steve or Bucky can avoid a take down by doing a jump like the one from a previous post. 

#41 Posted by _Wildcard_ (365 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainRodgers said:
That's why Deadpool fought Juggernaut and didn't die ,
If i recall correctly, deadpool just spent that whole fight running away. It was less of a fight and more of a "oh god,please don't kill me" kinda thing.
#42 Posted by DeathsHead2 (1625 posts) - - Show Bio
@_Wildcard_: 
 
Lol! 
#43 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Steve or Bucky win 
 
The fact is Steve is phyiscally superior to Herc and has combat feats 
 
Ans Bucky's Cybernetic arm will help him KO Herc

#44 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1656 posts) - - Show Bio
@_Wildcard_ said:
" @CaptainRodgers said:
That's why Deadpool fought Juggernaut and didn't die ,
If i recall correctly, deadpool just spent that whole fight running away. It was less of a fight and more of a "oh god,please don't kill me" kinda thing. "

You recall nearly correct yes , but you're missing the point , i'm not saying Deadpool won that i'm saying he survived it , through as you said "running away" he dodged his hits and jumped around and stuff , using his  agility  were it not for his agility he would be dead , what i'm trying to say is , you're wrong about agility not being important as character's constantly use it to fight opponents who are far stronger than them .
#45 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:

"Yeah Steve or Bucky win  The fact is Steve is phyiscally superior to Herc and has combat feats  Ans Bucky's Cybernetic arm will help him KO Herc "


That argument does not make any sense. There is no "Fact" that shows Steve to be "physically superior" to Herc in any way, in addition Herc has many combat feats that far surpass Cap's. The "Fact" is right now none of us have any idea how strong and skilled current Herc actually is at a depowered state.

Thor has been depowered a few times and nothing suggests that Captain America was his superior in H2H in any way when he was depowered, Herc is a more skilled hand- to - hand combatant than Thor is.

#46 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
"@comicdude23 said:

"Yeah Steve or Bucky win  The fact is Steve is phyiscally superior to Herc and has combat feats  Ans Bucky's Cybernetic arm will help him KO Herc "


That argument does not make any sense. There is no "Fact" that shows Steve to be "physically superior" to Herc in any way, in addition Herc has many combat feats that far surpass Cap's. The "Fact" is right now none of us have any idea how strong and skilled current Herc actually is at a depowered state.

Thor has been depowered a few times and nothing suggests that Captain America was his superior in H2H in any way when he was depowered, Herc is a more skilled hand- to - hand combatant than Thor is.

"

What does Thor have to do with this thread? 
 
and no 
 
Steve is a better fighter than Herc, he's learnt Martial Arts and has proved to be one of Marvels best fighters 
 
Bucky has a Cybernetic arm that has destroyed Robots and bent the metal of Guns
#47 Edited by Shadowglenn (582 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: yh i agree cap wins
what has herc done to show he has h2h skills on caps level and with herc depowered, cap is probably just as strong if not stronger
#48 Posted by Jake Fury (18396 posts) - - Show Bio

*sigh*
#49 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio

Every 'Hero' has their niche. It's too hard to convince that Hercules can compete with Captain America's (hand to hand) as Herc was known principally as the musclebound demigod of earth shattering proportions for so long, that people have disassociated with the fact he is the Big Daddy of hand to hand. 
 
Gymnastics, flipping to and fro, while visually impressive in comics is truly 'meh' in the world of hand to hand combat. 
 
And I agree with other posters, don't truly know what 'depowered' means for a God.  Herc's strength and durability levels are still an unknown factor. I'd go with enhanced human minimum ...but still... 
 
Herc can take this regardless in my opinion.
#50 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
 
@Shadowglenn:

@comicdude23: 
 
 

"Probably/Maybe" None of what the two of you are saying has been proven in any way in regards to Herc vs. Captain. there is nothing showing that Cap is a better fighter or that he has better skills. How can you say for sure that Captain is in better shape and has better fighting skills than someone else who we have not seen in action yet?? Everything you two have said is pure speculation at best.