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#1 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals apply.  void room battle...... start off 300 yrds apart 
 
punisher: 3 k bar, m16, 9mil......3 flash bangs........hypersonic whistle. flack kevlar.
 
DD: batons, nunchucks........
 
Captain America
 



    Cap: riot bombs, smoke and pepper, shield
#2 Edited by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

Standard personality on or off? Because if they're on, it's pretty much Daredevil vs Cap because Frank won't hit Steve.

Moderator
#3 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
" Standard personality on or off? Because if they're on, it's pretty much Daredevil vs Cap because Frank won't hit Steve. "
they are always on. -_- unless stated differently
#4 Posted by Ferro Vida (34678 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" @JediXMan said:
" Standard personality on or off? Because if they're on, it's pretty much Daredevil vs Cap because Frank won't hit Steve. "
they are always on. -_- unless stated differently "
Other way around, actually.
@JediXMan said:
" Standard personality on or off? Because if they're on, it's pretty much Daredevil vs Cap because Frank won't hit Steve. "

Steve and Frank have fought before Civil War and Punisher had no problems
#5 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
reread the forum rules..
 
 
 When these things are left out it’s generally assumed that characters are fighting to the best of their ability but still within the limits of their personality, using their standard gear, have no prep time, and are their current versions. Their starting distance is close and the setting is most often a city. But as I said, this is what is “generally assumed”, not what everyone thinks of. It’s always best to give as much information about the fight in the first post.
#6 Posted by Ferro Vida (34678 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking: Well I'm sorry then. I was told otherwise.
#7 Edited by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry, but for some reason I can't quote or reply to any of you. In fact all of my posting options are gone. 
 
Ferro Vida: Really? Hmm. When did the thing with Punisher not hitting Steve start? 
 
This is how I picture most fights unless stated otherwise: 
 
An endless white area, possibly with formless blocks (for people like Spider-Man or someone to grab onto). No morals. All out powers. I always find that those scenarios are fair.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Ferro Vida (34678 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan: It started in Civil War. Mark Millar kinda messed that up.
#9 Posted by Lunacyde (18636 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:
" @JediXMan: It started in Civil War. Mark Millar kinda messed that up. "

haha I never knew it until K4tz told me.
Online
#10 Edited by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

Ferro Vida: Ah, ok then. So Frank should be able to fight Steve? Ok, then. Well, for the fight... I could see it going either way. 
 
PS: I really hate not being able to quote or reply.

Moderator
#11 Posted by Andferne (38808 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ferro Vida said:

"Steve and Frank have fought before Civil War and Punisher had no problems "

xD

#12 Posted by Ferro Vida (34678 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde: Me neither! xD
 
@JediXMan:
I feel your pain. I can't paste anything >_>
 
@Andferne:
Sunnova!
#13 Posted by Andferne (38808 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
"PS: I really hate not being able to quote or reply. "
@Ferro Vida said:
"I feel your pain. I can't paste anything >_>
I have no problems..
#14 Posted by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

So there's other glitches going on? Good. Glad it's not just me.

Moderator
#15 Posted by Lunacyde (18636 posts) - - Show Bio

CV has been glitching up on me all week.
Online
#16 Posted by k4tzm4n (40826 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, that only happened with Millar.  When they previously encountered (in Cap's run), Punisher expressed he respected him, but wouldn't hesitated to take him out if he got in his way.  He's acted in the same manner countless times with other heroes, too (Daredevil, Spider-Man). 
Staff
#17 Edited by Donovan Montgomery (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is good enough to hang with Cap for a short while, here he would be the perfect distraction to let DD get a few hits in with his billy club ftw. 
 
....ok maybe a bit of wishfull thinking there, lol -about the win, not Punisher hanging with Cap in a fight-
Cap with his shield should actually be able to ko/incap both after a really hard fought fight, I really doubt Cap would even let Frank use most of his gadgets, and Frank wouldn't use his whistle unless they beat Cap and he wanted to get away from DD, lol.
#18 Posted by BadKrma (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi! New to the forum and figure this would be the best place for my question.  I recall the first time I saw Punisher, back in the day, was on cover art where he's got one foot on Cap's shield and pointing a gun at him.  Haven't been able to find it anywhere!  Anyone know what I'm talking about??

#19 Posted by ComicStooge (12564 posts) - - Show Bio
@BadKrma: 

 
I do... I also think the team can pull this fight out (but in a very good fight)
#20 Posted by BadKrma (2 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicStooge:  
 
Cool - any idea what issue? I've been looking for it forever! Heh heh
#21 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap gets curbstomped.

Moderator
#22 Posted by Violet-Eyed Dragon (2271 posts) - - Show Bio

first off i just wanna say if morals apply punisher would never ever fight cap he even let cap beat him up very badly rather than throw a single punch.  
 
excluding that, daredevil and punisher win easily.

#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@Violet-Eyed Dragon said:
" first off i just wanna say if morals apply punisher would never ever fight cap he even let cap beat him up very badly rather than throw a single punch.    excluding that, daredevil and punisher win easily. "
He's already fought Cap.What happened in Civil War was a disregard for what has already been shown for Punisher.
Moderator
#24 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure.
#25 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone have scans of Punisher actually being able to go hand to hand with Captain America?

#26 Posted by Red_Blade (2441 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:
" Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure. "
I don't think DD is a joke, but Frank is a pretty good shot, he can probably shoot Cap while he's beating on DD
#27 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@texasdeathmatch said:
" Does anyone have scans of Punisher actually being able to go hand to hand with Captain America? "
He's fought Cap but not h2h.He had an assault rifle.
Moderator
#28 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @texasdeathmatch said:
" Does anyone have scans of Punisher actually being able to go hand to hand with Captain America? "
He's fought Cap but not h2h.He had an assault rifle. "
Ah right, I thought this was h2h. Oh wait, I think I actually have the issue where Punisher snipes Cap in the back when I was a kid.
#29 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Red_Blade said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
" Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure. "
I don't think DD is a joke, but Frank is a pretty good shot, he can probably shoot Cap while he's beating on DD "
 
Anyone who struggles against the likes of Ox, Monk Keefer and Klaus Kruger shouldn't be taken too seriously. He has no business being matched up with Deathstroke, Black Panther, Taskmaster, etc.
 
@Vance Astro
said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
" Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure. "
No he loses period. "

If it weren't for Mr. Bumpo, Punisher would be a dead man right now. Even Billy Russo has given him tough fights in the past. Neither of them would pose a threat to Cap.
#30 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

 @The Mjolnir Wielder: Don't think he's just a little deadlier when he's the only one with a gun in this fight?

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:
" Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure. "
Ok,here we go. 
 
Technically as far as fights between Captain America and Daredevil are concerned.Captain America is the only one who has actually been KO'd.The instance you are referring to in which Captain America "schooled" Daredevil,he wasn't KO'd by Cap he fled from the fight.Cap did indeed school him but in another instance a crazed Daredevil took on the Avengers (Cap,Herc,Beast,and Black Widow) and was victorious. (Not saying it's feasible just telling you what happened).Stop taking all of Daredevil's low showings and trying to display them as proof he's not a good fighter.You aren't even considering how the character is written.First of all.Daredevil was only a boxer\gymnast before Frank Miller started writing him.Her currently has had a long history of Ninja training and showings.Second of all you are naming people he struggled against whom he also has beaten not only very easily but has beaten with the help of other characters.For instance you named Matador.Not only has Daredevil beaten him 4 times.1 of those times he had help from Frog-Man,Stilt-Man,The Gladiator,and another villain and the other time he had help from Tombstone and he still lost.And since where bringing up low showings how about Cap losing to a guy whom Bucky has easily beaten twice (Crossbones) and another time he technically beat Crossbones when he had help from a group of villains.
Moderator
#32 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:
Anyone who struggles against the likes of Ox, Monk Keefer and Klaus Kruger shouldn't be taken too seriously. He has no business being matched up with Deathstroke, Black Panther, Taskmaster, etc.

Stop trying to bring Daredevil down by naming a bunch of inconsistencies.Daredevil has beaten the Ox and his crew on numerous occasions.He's also fought Black Panther 3 times and he didn't get owned.Also on that note the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe puts both characters on the same level of fighting skill.
Moderator
#33 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:
" Captain America should win with minimal effort if he goes all out. Punisher shouldn't really be a threat, since Cap has beaten much more formidable street-levelers in the past. Steve has already schooled Daredevil in H2H before, but that shouldn't have been a surprise. Murdock is a complete joke and has had tough fights in the past against the likes of Klaus Kruger, Bushwacker and The Fellowship of Fear. He's even been beaten by Matador before, which can definitely be classified as an epic failure. "
Ok,here we go.  Technically as far as fights between Captain America and Daredevil are concerned.Captain America is the only one who has actually been KO'd.The instance you are referring to in which Captain America "schooled" Daredevil,he wasn't KO'd by Cap he fled from the fight.Cap did indeed school him but in another instance a crazed Daredevil took on the Avengers (Cap,Herc,Beast,and Black Widow) and was victorious. (Not saying it's feasible just telling you what happened).Stop taking all of Daredevil's low showings and trying to display them as proof he's not a good fighter.You aren't even considering how the character is written.First of all.Daredevil was only a boxer\gymnast before Frank Miller started writing him.Her currently has had a long history of Ninja training and showings.Second of all you are naming people he struggled against whom he also has beaten not only very easily but has beaten with the help of other characters.For instance you named Matador.Not only has Daredevil beaten him 4 times.1 of those times he had help from Frog-Man,Stilt-Man,The Gladiator,and another villain and the other time he had help from Tombstone and he still lost.And since where bringing up low showings how about Cap losing to a guy whom Bucky has easily beaten twice (Crossbones) and another time he technically beat Crossbones when he had help from a group of villains. "

Had DD not fled from that fight, do you honestly think he would've stayed conscious much longer? Frank Miller and Ann Nocenti have portrayed him the same, yet he still has gotten owned by many C-list villains through the years. Captain America's high-end feats trump those of DD and Punisher's put together.
#34 Edited by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

Had DD not fled from that fight, do you honestly think he would've stayed conscious much longer? Frank Miller and Ann Nocenti have portrayed him the same, yet he still has gotten owned by many C-list villains through the years. Captain America's high-end feats trump those of DD and Punisher's put together. "

How are you going to sit here and lie to someone who has read every single DD comic?  
Frank Miller wrote DD the same? So the issues where he learned all those ninja techniques,the one where he used to chi to bring himself back from the dead,all that stuff with Elektra and Stick was the same as what was written before? Either you haven't actually read what's in the book and just looked at the pictures or you didn't look at the books at all.
Daredevil has fought Cap 3 times.The one you are talking about where he fled,the time DD fought the Avengers which DD one and actually KO'd everyone in the room accept Black Widow,and another time where he was controlled by Death-Stalker...Cap held back on him and he wasn't in his right mind.
Daredevil has beaten craploads of credible fighters and held his own with characters above him so what are you sitting her making up stuff.I can name plenty of feats for DD comparable to what Cap has done.Same for Frank.If you don't know anything about the characters just say that don't come in her and completely underestimate two of Marvel's best as if I haven't read enough to know you DON'T know what you're talking about.
Moderator
#35 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

"@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

Had DD not fled from that fight, do you honestly think he would've stayed conscious much longer? Frank Miller and Ann Nocenti have portrayed him the same, yet he still has gotten owned by many C-list villains through the years. Captain America's high-end feats trump those of DD and Punisher's put together. "

How are you going to sit here and lie to someone who has read every single DD comic?  Frank Miller wrote DD the same? So the issues where he learned all those ninja techniques,the one where he used to chi to bring himself back from the dead,all that stuff with Elektra and Stick was the same as what was written before? Either you haven't actually read what's in the book and just looked at the pictures or you didn't look at the books at all.Daredevil has fought Cap 3 times.The one you are talking about where he fled,the time DD fought the Avengers which DD one and actually KO'd everyone in the room accept Black Widow,and another time where he was controlled by Death-Stalker...Cap held back on him and he wasn't in his right mind.Daredevil has beaten craploads of credible fighters and held his own with characters above him so what are you sitting her making up stuff.I can name plenty of feats for DD comparable to what Cap has done.Same for Frank.If you don't know anything about the characters just say that don't come in her and completely underestimate two of Marvel's best as if I haven't read enough to know you DON'T know what you're talking about. "


First of all, it's common knowledge that Nocenti started writing DD arcs a few years after Miller, not before. You can sit here and post all of DD's high-end feats, but that can be easily countered. Daredevil is notorious for performing consistent low-end feats, some of which second-tier combatnats in the MU could handle. Punisher clearly doesn't have the high-end feats that Steve does either, which even mediocre debaters on here could prove.

#36 Posted by drkhwk2001 (4433 posts) - - Show Bio

The team.

#37 Edited by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

First of all, it's common knowledge that Nocenti started writing DD arcs a few years after Miller, not before. You can sit here and post all of DD's high-end feats, but that can be easily countered. Daredevil is notorious for performing consistent low-end feats, some of which second-tier combatnats in the MU could handle. Punisher clearly doesn't have the high-end feats that Steve does either, which even mediocre debaters on here could prove.

"
What you said after first of all has nothing to do with anything I said. 
You don't know anything about Daredevil and it's obvious.Even Klandicar could tell you don't know what you're talking about. 
You say I can post all of DD's high end feats as if you already know what they are when you obviously don't.You just keep making bullsh#t claim after bullsh#t claim.And YOU are a mediocre debater but you aren't going to prove anything here.Punisher doesn't have feats on the exact same level as Cap but nobody disputed that.That has nothing to do with if he could beat Cap with Daredevil's help.Why don't you try actually considering what Punisher and DD are capable of instead of finding the lowest feats you can find and then trying to debate on them because they both consistently have defeated tough opponents in combat and saying they didn't just again proves you didn't read the comics.Daredevil for one has fought pretty much every fought every high tier combatant in the Marvel U and he's beaten a fair amount.Cap also lost to one of those high tiers whom DD has fought several times and not only held his own but didn't lose once. 
 
EDIT:If you want to go feat for feat between DD and Cap we can do that and since you're pretending DD's feats are that far below Cap's you'll be awfully surprised when they're not.
Moderator
#38 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

First of all, it's common knowledge that Nocenti started writing DD arcs a few years after Miller, not before. You can sit here and post all of DD's high-end feats, but that can be easily countered. Daredevil is notorious for performing consistent low-end feats, some of which second-tier combatnats in the MU could handle. Punisher clearly doesn't have the high-end feats that Steve does either, which even mediocre debaters on here could prove.

"
What you said after first of all has nothing to do with anything I said. You don't know anything about Daredevil and it's obvious.Even Klandicar could tell you don't know what you're talking about. You say I can post all of DD's high end feats as if you already know what they are when you obviously don't.You just keep making bullsh#t claim after bullsh#t claim.And YOU are a mediocre debater but you aren't going to prove anything here.Punisher doesn't have feats on the exact same level as Cap but nobody disputed that.That has nothing to do with if he could beat Cap with Daredevil's help.Why don't you try actually considering what Punisher and DD are capable of instead of finding the lowest feats you can find and then trying to debate on them because they both consistently have defeated tough opponents in combat and saying they didn't just again proves you didn't read the comics.Daredevil for one has fought pretty much every fought every high tier combatant in the Marvel U and he's beaten a fair amount.Cap also lost to one of those high tiers whom DD has fought several times and not only held his own but didn't lose once.  EDIT:If you want to go feat for feat between DD and Cap we can do that and since you're pretending DD's feats are that far below Cap's you'll be awfully surprised when they're not. "

I've read most of Daredevil arcs between Miller and Nocenti's runs, and continue to follow Brubaker. Stop crying just because I've listed some (and far from all) of DD's low-end feats. You did admit that Punisher has comparable feats to Daredevil, as shown when you actually stated "Same for Frank" (when you were comparing Captain America and Daredevil). It's hilarious how you called me a mediocre debater when I'm a lot more versatile. Dude, have you ever posted in a thread not related to Marvel street-levelers? You're basically a much more ignorant version of erik, in the sense that you consistently back inferior opponents just to show off your debating skills for the hell of it.
#39 Edited by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

I've read most of Daredevil arcs between Miller and Nocenti's runs, and continue to follow Brubaker. Stop crying just because I've listed some (and far from all) of DD's low-end feats. You did admit that Punisher has comparable feats to Daredevil, as shown when you actually stated "Same for Frank" (when you were comparing Captain America and Daredevil). It's hilarious how you called me a mediocre debater when I'm a lot more versatile. Dude, have you ever posted in a thread not related to Marvel street-levelers? You're basically a much more ignorant version of erik, in the sense that you consistently back inferior opponents just to show off your debating skills for the hell of it. Just face it, you're not half the debater that AtPhantom, Gambler, Zoom, etc. are. "

You're playing yourself.I caught you making up stuff and now you're trying to insult me on debating skills? I'm not going to get into what level i'm on it's not worth it.If you don't want to back up your claims that's fine.But you're not going to sit here and pretend you read something you obviously didn't by coming here and saying Murdock is a joke by naming a bunch of people he lost to whom he's also beaten 2 or more times over.That's noob behavior.That would be like me saying Hercules can't beat Namor because he got knocked out by Iron Fist and Daredevil.That just proves I didn't actually read the comics in which the fights happened or i'm just waking off the character i'm arguing for because there is obviously more to it than that.

Oh and BTW..to answer your question about street level....  

Wonder Man vs. Spider-Man
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/wonderman-vs-spider-man/19059/?page=1
Ms.Marvel & She-Hulk vs. Namor & the Thing
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/ms-marvel-and-she-hulk-vs-namor-and-the-thing/15099/?page=last#reply_form
Namor & She-Hulk vs. Wonder Man & The Thing
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/namor-and-she-hulk-vs-wonder-man-and-the-thing/31625/?page=last#reply_form
Black Panther vs. Iron Man
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/black-panther-vs-ironman/32703/?page=1
Sentry vs. Wonder Woman
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/sentry-vs-wonder-woman/26422/?page=1
Hulk vs. Anyone who can stop him
http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/29-2267/hulk-vs-anyone-who-can-stop-him/92-23386/?page=1
Iron Man vs. Solomon Grundy
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/ironman-vs-solomon-grundy/383024/?page=last#reply_form
Toxin vs. Captain Marvel
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/toxin-vs-captain-marvel/383925/#44
Champion of the Universe vs. Sentry
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/champion-of-the-universe-vs-sentry/389590/#131
Thanos vs. Sentry
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thanos-vs-sentry/138553/?page=1 
Colossus vs. She-Hulk
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/colossus-vs-she-hulk/23966/? 
Classic Dr.Strange vs. Sentry 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/classic-dr-strange-vs-sentry/410490/?page=6 
The Guyver vs. Spider-Man 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/the-guyver-vs-spider-man/389212/?page=last#reply_form  
Wonder Woman vs. Thanos
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thanos-vs-wonder-woman/399299/ 
Sentry vs. Broly  
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/broly-vs-sentry/390746/   
Daredevil vs. Karnak
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/daredevil-vs-karnak/398011/?page=6     
 
EDIT:If you still want to go feat for feat we can do that or you can continue to pretend that Daredevil's feats are NOWHERE near Cap's.
Moderator
#40 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:

I've read most of Daredevil arcs between Miller and Nocenti's runs, and continue to follow Brubaker. Stop crying just because I've listed some (and far from all) of DD's low-end feats. You did admit that Punisher has comparable feats to Daredevil, as shown when you actually stated "Same for Frank" (when you were comparing Captain America and Daredevil). It's hilarious how you called me a mediocre debater when I'm a lot more versatile. Dude, have you ever posted in a thread not related to Marvel street-levelers? You're basically a much more ignorant version of erik, in the sense that you consistently back inferior opponents just to show off your debating skills for the hell of it. Just face it, you're not half the debater that AtPhantom, Gambler, Zoom, etc. are. "

You're playing yourself.I caught you making up stuff and now you're trying to insult me on debating skills? I'm not going to get into what level i'm on it's not worth it.If you don't want to back up your claims that's fine.But you're not going to sit here and pretend you read something you obviously didn't by coming here and saying Murdock is a joke by naming a bunch of people he lost to whom he's also beaten 2 or more times over.That's noob behavior.That would be like me saying Hercules can't beat Namor because he got knocked out by Iron Fist and Daredevil.That just proves I didn't actually read the comics in which the fights happened or i'm just waking off the character i'm arguing for because there is obviously more to it than that.

Oh and BTW..to answer your question about street level....  

Wonder Man vs. Spider-Man
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/wonderman-vs-spider-man/19059/?page=1
Ms.Marvel & She-Hulk vs. Namor & the Thing
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/ms-marvel-and-she-hulk-vs-namor-and-the-thing/15099/?page=last#reply_form
Namor & She-Hulk vs. Wonder Man & The Thing
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/namor-and-she-hulk-vs-wonder-man-and-the-thing/31625/?page=last#reply_form
Black Panther vs. Iron Man
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/black-panther-vs-ironman/32703/?page=1
Sentry vs. Wonder Woman
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/sentry-vs-wonder-woman/26422/?page=1
Hulk vs. Anyone who can stop him
http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/29-2267/hulk-vs-anyone-who-can-stop-him/92-23386/?page=1
Iron Man vs. Solomon Grundy
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/ironman-vs-solomon-grundy/383024/?page=last#reply_form
Toxin vs. Captain Marvel
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/toxin-vs-captain-marvel/383925/#44
Champion of the Universe vs. Sentry
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/champion-of-the-universe-vs-sentry/389590/#131
Thanos vs. Sentry
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thanos-vs-sentry/138553/?page=1 
Colossus vs. She-Hulk
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/colossus-vs-she-hulk/23966/? 
Classic Dr.Strange vs. Sentry 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/classic-dr-strange-vs-sentry/410490/?page=6 
The Guyver vs. Spider-Man 
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/the-guyver-vs-spider-man/389212/?page=last#reply_form  
Wonder Woman vs. Thanos
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thanos-vs-wonder-woman/399299/ 
Sentry vs. Broly  
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/broly-vs-sentry/390746/   
Daredevil vs. Karnakhttp://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/daredevil-vs-karnak/398011/?page=6     "

Well, to start this one off, I hope you weren't taking me seriously regarding the street-leveler comment. Every user on this site has posted in one, my point was that you tend to make rare appearances outside of street-leveler threads. I've yet to tell a single lie about DD, although you have already posted two inaccuracies. I didn't mean to insult you, but all I'm doing here is stating legitimate feats from various storylines. I honestly don't care if you think I'm a troll. It's your opinion and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing about that,
#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:    "
Well, to start this one off, I hope you weren't taking me seriously regarding the street-leveler comment. Every user on this site has posted in one, my point was that you tend to make rare appearances outside of street-leveler threads. I've yet to tell a single lie about DD, although you have already posted two inaccuracies. I didn't mean to insult you, but all I'm doing here is stating legitimate feats from various storylines. I honestly don't care if you think I'm a troll. It's your opinion and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing about that, "
You said that Daredevil is notorious for consistently performing low end feats.That's a blatant lie because everyone else on CV knows him for the exact opposite and me for one someone who has read DD from #1 to #505 knows very well it's not a lie.If you want proof let's get into a debate.You keep making claims but you have 0 evidence to back them,you just named a bunch of characters DD struggled with whom he's also easily beaten so what's your proof? You said I posted two inaccuracies? What were they? I never said that you were a troll but the stuff you say is troll behavior..for instance in this very post where you said you posted legitimate feats when you didn't.I'm not trying to convince you you're a troll.I could care less but I would like to have a debate the consists of facts.This will be the 3rd time i've asked you to name some feats for Cap.I didn't even ask for scans....Are you going to back it up or not?
Moderator
#42 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:    "
Well, to start this one off, I hope you weren't taking me seriously regarding the street-leveler comment. Every user on this site has posted in one, my point was that you tend to make rare appearances outside of street-leveler threads. I've yet to tell a single lie about DD, although you have already posted two inaccuracies. I didn't mean to insult you, but all I'm doing here is stating legitimate feats from various storylines. I honestly don't care if you think I'm a troll. It's your opinion and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing about that, "
You said that Daredevil is notorious for consistently performing low end feats.That's a blatant lie because everyone else on CV knows him for the exact opposite and me for one someone who has read DD from #1 to #505 knows very well it's not a lie.If you want proof let's get into a debate.You keep making claims but you have 0 evidence to back them,you just named a bunch of characters DD struggled with whom he's also easily beaten so what's your proof? You said I posted two inaccuracies? What were they? I never said that you were a troll but the stuff you say is troll behavior..for instance in this very post where you said you posted legitimate feats when you didn't.I'm not trying to convince you you're a troll.I could care less but I would like to have a debate the consists of facts.This will be the 3rd time i've asked you to name some feats for Cap.I didn't even ask for scans....Are you going to back it up or not? "

You stated that I was a mediocre debater, so that basically infers that I'm a troll. I never lied about any of Daredevil's performances, like going toe-to-toe with Klaus Kruger, Monk Keefer, etc. You implied that Noccenti began writing DD before Miller, which isn't true at all. I also caught you stating that Punisher's feats were comparable to Steve's, which you tried to play off. To answer your question, I'm ready to debate when you are.
#43 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

don't you just love a completely innocent thread turned sour?

#44 Edited by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

You stated that I was a mediocre debater, so that basically infers that I'm a troll. I never lied about any of Daredevil's performances, like going toe-to-toe with Klaus Kruger, Monk Keefer, etc. You implied that Noccenti began writing DD before Miller, which isn't true at all. I also caught you stating that Punisher's feats were comparable to Steve's, which you tried to play off. To answer your question, I'm ready to debate when you are. "

I didn't try to play off anything.I said that Punisher's feats weren't on Cap's level I didn't say they weren't comparable.Punisher hasn't fought Skrulls,or Kree or the various types of characters that Cap has fought so I can only say what he has done as far as combat with street levelers.
 
I never implied Noccenti began writing DD before anyone.You're statement about Noccenti and Miller had nothing to do with what I was saying to begin with.I thought you were saying that they wrote like Stan Lee,Joe Kelly and other writers before them because I was saying that before Miller DD was only a boxer and therefore more fighting skill was added after his run..so the fight you are speaking of where Cap fought DD is irrelevant because Cap way outclassed him in martial arts skill and knowledge at that point.He doesn't any more.He's still above DD but not as far as he was before.
 
You didn't lie about who Daredevil has fought..you lied about him consistently performing low-end feats.Now either you don't know the definition of consistent or you're just lying either way it's not the truth and therefore a lie.I just told you that. 
 
And now for the 4th time.I'm waiting for you to name a feat that Daredevil cannot come close to that Cap has performed.You mentioned the feats thing..so now it's time to present some FACTUAL information.
Moderator
#45 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (7906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
 
Let's see here........... He has shown that he can lift a max of around one ton, getting the better of Black Panther and Iron Fist in H2H, easily defeating Beast, schooling Wolverine, etc.
#46 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: LOL, this is funny.
#47 Edited by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

" @Vance Astro:  Let's see here........... He has shown that he can lift a max of around one ton, getting the better of Black Panther and Iron Fist in H2H, easily defeating Beast, schooling Wolverine, etc. "

1.That's not a feat..that's just how much he lifts. 
2.I do recall Cap's fight with Iron Fist in which he won.Daredevil has also gotten the better of Iron Fist.He hasn't actually beaten him but they are friends so it's obvious they aren't going to try and hurt each other.Daredevil has fought both Black Panther and Wolverine..he's gotten more of the better of Wolverine and even beat him.He was brainwashed but in the same comic he did almost best the Fantastic Four so his fighting skill couldn't have diminished much if at all.Do you have scans of the fights with Cap and Wolverine and Cap against Black Panther because I don't recall those instances.I remember fights they had but never remember Wolverine getting schooled or Cap getting the better of BP.All in all DD has fought those same characters and he didn't get schooled or look like an amateur.
Moderator
#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@Strafe Prower said:
" @Vance Astro: LOL, this is funny. "
It is slightly amusing.
Moderator
#49 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro:
Just be light-hearted about it. Sarcasm always helps :P
#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@Strafe Prower said:
" @Vance Astro: Just be light-hearted about it. Sarcasm always helps :P "
I just want something substantial for comparison.As far as right now I haven't heard of Cap doing anything that's way out of the league of what DD can do or has done.
Moderator