@SlimJ87D: still waiting on that Im slim explaining why sm strength over ds was such a bigger deal than banes over ca's.....or did u forget?
@SlimJ87D: hmmmm...u did say u were gonna send one, the fact that u never comment on anything in dc's favor is seeming more and more like what u claim i am--oh right and ive never seen u change your opinion ever
I sent you a PM, I guess it didn't go through.
It went somewhere along that lines like
"I usually don't have to post in DC threads because they stomp the majority of their battles and are usually self explanatory. I even wrote a whole thread for Superman and Flash on why beings like Hulk and Thor can't beat them:
That whole thread was written up for Flash, Superman and Zoom. You're only basis of accusing me of being a fanboy is because I have disagreed with you?
New 52 version: From what we've seen, this version of Bane is taking 8-9/10. Cap will give the brute a good struggle, but Batman was completely helpless against him and ultimate, I imagine the same will hold true for Cap after a good display.
Off Venom, Bane is, at best, equal to Cap in strentgh though I have yet to see comparable feats of Bane off venom,
Skill on venom:
In a regular mindset (which I assume he is for all matches), venom doesn't take away from his skill. The times he has flipped out/lost control were circumstantial. First (and most notably), when Jean-Paul Valley severed his venom intake during their second fight in "Knightfall." It wasn't the venom that drove him mad, it was the withdrawal. He was an addict and this was the first time it was permanently stripped from him during usage. He became an emotional wreck and lost all competence as a combatant, only wishing to flee for his life... but alas, he was beaten into a coma instead.
Next, he went on a rampage when he took the venom pills in Secret Six. He was on death's doorstep (this is after the infamous 100+ brick torture), and the venom instantly revived him. Also, the apparent on-the-horizon demise of Savage (who he was treating as his own child) and the lack of respect made him lash out ("Did you all forget who I am?!" or something along those lines). Regardless, Bane wasn't exactly known for displaying skill to any degree in that book to begin with.
Personally, I think his fights against Film Freak, Killer Croc (first one), Jean-Paul Valley (first one), and Batman (yeah, that one) show that he's in control while on venom. That's just my two cents, though.
Strength off venom:
I see you want some off venom strength feats, so here ya go! Not saying he's stronger or equal to Cap, but just sharing the displays.
Not sure what material this melee weapon is (I imagine a basic steel or metal based on Bane's remark), but clearly bending it is remotely impressive (based on the reaction)
(not actually on venom, but wearing the device)
Shot in the arm, uses same arm to break another man's wrist seemingly in half.
Busts out of rather large handcuffs.
Thanks to my delightful friend Morph for cropping these two:
(he's not actually on venom, despite wearing the device)
In a regular mindset (which I assume he is for all matches), venom doesn't take away from his skill. The times he has flipped out/lost control were circumstantial. First (and most notably), when Jean-Paul Valley severed his venom intake during their second fight in "Knightfall." It wasn't the venom that drove him mad, it was the withdrawal . He was an addict and this was the first time it was permanently stripped from him during usage. He became an emotional wreck and lost all competence as a combatant, only wishing to flee for his life... but alas, he was beaten into a coma instead.
Wait... severing the tubes in the Venom apparatus causes the effects of the Venom to instantly wear off? In movies/cartoons, whenever somebody cuts Bane's tubes and he instantly goes weak, I always assumed that was PIS/bad writing.
In a regular mindset (which I assume he is for all matches), venom doesn't take away from his skill. The times he has flipped out/lost control were circumstantial. First (and most notably), when Jean-Paul Valley severed his venom intake during their second fight in "Knightfall." It wasn't the venom that drove him mad, it was the withdrawal . He was an addict and this was the first time it was permanently stripped from him during usage. He became an emotional wreck and lost all competence as a combatant, only wishing to flee for his life... but alas, he was beaten into a coma instead.
Wait... severing the tubes in the Venom apparatus causes the effects of the Venom to instantly wear off? In movies/cartoons, whenever somebody cuts Bane's tubes and he instantly goes weak, I always assumed that was PIS/bad writing.
Hrmmmm? I didn't say the venom wore off, it was just that being immediately taken away from the drug (for the first time) while still receiving it turned him into an emotional mess.
Bane is superhuman yes. But Cap is battle seasoned and has been able to go toe to toe with Wolverine. Spiderman (who'd wipe the the floor with Bane). Both are smart. Both are great fighters. Bane's strength gives him a slight edge but Cap would out speed him.
Pre-52 Bane, I'm still going with Cap with Bane either on or off venom.
However, that said, if post 52 Bane cleans Batman's clock with little trouble, then this Bane should indeed take a majority win over Steve, despite my unchanged opinion that Steve takes a majority win over Bruce.
New 52 version: From what we've seen, this version of Bane is taking 8-9/10. Cap will give the brute a good struggle, but Batman was completely helpless against him and ultimate, I imagine the same will hold true for Cap after a good display.
I'm one of those that believe Batman beats Captain America...therefore, Bane beats Captain America.
That really is irrelevant and an ABC logic fallacy since Bane is not Batman, is not as skilled as Batman and doesn't have the equipment Batman does. Cap has every necessary tool to beat Bane. He has the skill, the shield, the stats and intelligence to where he can take a majority over a normal Bane. (Pre-52 and off of venom of course.)
Yeah. It is ABC logic, but not irrelevant at all. Irrelevant would be, Galactus vs Silver Surfer. I don't think there is that vast a gulf between Captain America and Bane. I'm sure Cap could take some. Honestly, I don't know why a Captain America/Batman fight would be that close. Cap is skilled, but I just can't see him on par with a guy who has mastered 127 forms of martial arts and is basically ultra ninja with tech. From a physicall skills standpoint, I think Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers are about the same. But I just can't see them on even ground when it comes to fighting skill. Just my opinion.
But I don't think either of us can really make assertions that are too strong since Bane and Captain America have never fought.
I'm one of those that believe Batman beats Captain America...therefore, Bane beats Captain America.
That really is irrelevant and an ABC logic fallacy since Bane is not Batman, is not as skilled as Batman and doesn't have the equipment Batman does. Cap has every necessary tool to beat Bane. He has the skill, the shield, the stats and intelligence to where he can take a majority over a normal Bane. (Pre-52 and off of venom of course.)
Yeah. It is ABC logic, but not irrelevant at all. Irrelevant would be, Galactus vs Silver Surfer. I don't think there is that vast a gulf between Captain America and Bane. I'm sure Cap could take some. Honestly, I don't know why a Captain America/Batman fight would be that close. Cap is skilled, but I just can't see him on par with a guy who has mastered 127 forms of martial arts and is basically ultra ninja with tech. From a physicall skills standpoint, I think Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers are about the same. But I just can't see them on even ground when it comes to fighting skill. Just my opinion.
But I don't think either of us can really make assertions that are too strong since Bane and Captain America have never fought.
Cap has also mastered every martial arts form on Earth.
@Malevolent1: It is irrelevant. Cap isn't Batman and all because you think Batman can beat Cap so Bane can? It doesn't make sense cause Batman beats Cap for different reasons than Bane would but in this case Bane won't and I didn't say there was this big gap between Cap and Bane. Cap does suffer a small skill gap from Batman, it is there but nothing that is such a hindrance while Cap does have a the stat edge and if you can't see it is close then you either don't know enough about Cap/Batman or you aren't applying the battle rules properly and just forming your own fanfic in your head but that is another debate for another time. And yes I can make assertions by comparing the skills and stats of the two and proper advantages and disadvantages they share to say who can win which in this case Cap and I'm basing this is off an irrelevant ABC logic fallacy.
@god_spawn: No disrespect. I know the Captain America/Batman question wil rage until the end of time. I just see Batman as more skilled and more of a tactician than Cap, although, Caps edge is in experience obviously.
@Malevolent1: I'm not arguing Cap beats Batman. I'm saying Cap beats Bane and your reason was "Batman beats Cap, therefore Bane does too" which doesn't make any sense. Cap and Batman are two different characters and they can beat Bane but for different reasons.
@god_spawn: Forgive me for merely skimming the topic, but last I checked pre-Flashpoint, Bane beat Batman and not the other way around? Granted, he cheated and had one-sided prep and the other fights were stalemates but still.
Just to point out, if it the stick is made of steel, then blocking without apparently noticing it is the more of a feat than bending it. I work in the construction biz and people in it usually bend the steel used to reinforce concrete over their knees (only once or twice when nothing better is nearby) unless its specified to be extremely thick (for steel rods that is).
Captain America would win. He's faster, more agile, as strong if not stronger (when Bane is off Venom, on Venom Bane is obviously stronger), and a better fighter, IMO. Plus Bane doesn't have an answer for that shield.
I know people are going to hate me for bumping this but I had to voice my opinion.
I believe that Cap would take the fight. Why?
Strength: Cap is the peak human being (practically perfect) that means his strength is basically without natural human limiters
Speed and Endurance: Once again due to having no limiters he can sprint faster than the fastest olympic sprinter and barely waste a breathe
Durability: A little fact that people seem to look over is not only can Cap take some big hits, he recovers from them insanely fast (basically advanced healing factor)
Super Soldier Serum is superior to Venom in every way: While venom needs to constantly be given to the user to increase their strength and the user will suffer from withdrawal symptoms, the Super soldier serum is being constantly reproduced in Cap's body thus giving him an endless supply
Captain America would win. He's faster, more agile, as strong if not stronger (when Bane is off Venom, on Venom Bane is obviously stronger), and a better fighter, IMO. Plus Bane doesn't have an answer for that shield.
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