CAPTAIN AMERICA (No Shield) vs BATMAN (No Gadgets)

Captain America.

Not going to comment too heavily on Bruce's striking feats or strength feats or endurance feats when compared to Steve's, as there's little more that has been so done to death on the Vine than this. Batman's physical feats, on a whole, are not as consistently impressive as Steve's, and the books highlight CLEARLY that Captain America is an enhanced human ... which is a tier above peak in every respect.

Insofar as the Peter / Logan comparison goes ... it's really not the same. Wolverine is low end superhuman. The only stat that is clearly below Parker's is strength. All else is extremely close (save for spider-sense lending avoidance and agility that go far above Logan's own to be sure, just as few would argue that Wolverine doesn't have greater endurance than Parker). But really, it's his durability that makes the stat difference a moot point tween the two.

If Batman was still just peak human, but had a healing factor and an indestructible adamantium laced skeleton, I'd see him kicking even Ult. Cap's arse around the block and back stats or no.

Slade is different from Cap. And Batman does have other example of fighting meta-humans and people in suits, in which he has won or stalemated.

Slade and Cap are near perfect physical equals. Batman doesn't regularly go up against someone with as good a balance of skill, speed, & strength as Cap.

Who has he beaten or stalemated who are like Cap?

But their not the same so. Thats why I say they are different.

Seel Wolf (Russian Super Solider) He stalmated.

The Human Flea (Suit that can enhance his speed) He won,

Bane (on Venom) He won,

NKV Deamon(Enhanced) He stalemated.

He also stalemated Shiva, Tiger, and Dragon all of which could argubly defeat Cap.

But that doesn't mean anything. His skill only prolongs his defeat from someone like Deathstroke or Captain America.

Don't know anybody you listed besides Bane, so feat for the others and did he have to use gadgets?

@imperfect_cell: You could also count Talon and the Court of Owls who are also low level metas

@imperfect_cell: It does mean something.

Fought them in h2h. Ill try to find the scan for you.

Stalmated The Deamon him with a triangle hold then he ran when the cops showed up.:http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvndemon1-1.jpg.html

second fight: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvndemon1-7.jpg.html *(out of character Batman gets shot and is forced to use a gun) *edit

The flea he used his Batrope cant find but this one was more of a chase scene.

Steel Wolf h2h: http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Strategy-Tactics/Solo%20Battles/suicidesquad40-batvsteelwolf1.jpg.html

Some might no agree but I see Steve and Slade as being very close physically. A fight between Steve and Bruce would probably look something like a fight between Steve and Slade.

Cap takes this 8/10 times with out gear. Even with gear, I still say Cap wins the majority unless bats has prep. Its really Steves fight to lose.

@lxlgiftedlxl: Sure he can, but people talk about Cap and Batman as if they're equals. They're not. Take away his prep, his gadget's, and his ability to spring from the shadow's he's just a highly trained man. Cap... He's got the training, the experience, the martial arts and oh wait... better physical stats in every single category. Believe it or not even the vaunted Batman can lose. This fight, under these conditions, is one these times.

@schillenger420: Batman can lose isn't unbeatable so can Cap, how ever this fight is a toss up.

They are equals in every areas except when it comes to Fighting skill/technique(Batman) and Physicals(Cap).

Batman is a highly trained man (Better than Cap) with good physicals, and Cap is a highly trained man with great physicals (greater than Batman). Any match when they both have no gadgets/shield or armor is a toss up.

If you want to factor in gadgets and a shield, armor (which is in this match up), or prep (for both) the chances for Batman only get better because Batman becomes more and more versatile.

@lxlgiftedlxl: Honestly, without the prep and gadget's I almost want to refer to him as Bruce Wayne instead of Batman. Regardless, in this scenario the lack of gadgetry (which to my mind means whatever enhancement's his suit provides) and surprise give Cap a very large edge as now it's down to skill and abilities. As skilled as Batman may be (and he is) he's fighting someone who's skill level is right there with... in the ballpark, on the field, and playing the game. Since the skill comparison is essentially a wash.. we go to abilities. Without his gadget's, prep, or ability to surprise he's just peak human. Cap's on the other hand are beyond. In a fight between two equally skilled opponents than it becomes a human fighting a superhuman. You do the math.

@schillenger420: The skill set isn't a wash, Batman is better, just like the physical attributes isn't a wash, Cap has better physicals. Bruce and Steve cancel each others advantages out.

Yes Steve has the physical adv. which means he's faster, stronger, and more durable and he is fighting and pressure points that will assist him in a fight.

But Bruce has the techniques such as pressure points, nerve strikes, Leaf Fall Technique, Vibrating Palm and other ways to incap. an opponent. Also he is know to be unpredictable due to switching up his fighting styles in the match (due to him perfecting all forms of fighting). Plus his own physicals and training that will assist him in the fight.

@conner_wolf Support.

@super_soldierxii: Altough I'm most interested in seeing you post evidence that peak humans in real life can dodge and block bullets at close range (talking 10-20 metres). Can you please do that? Since you think that Bruce has peak human stats at best.

@lxlgiftedlxl: Except, Cap is perfectly capable of using pressure points, nerve strikes, etc... and while he doesn't scream out his moves like an anime character, both are a master of every single Martial Art, tacking on the special Martial Arts of their individual world.

And as support for Cell, I'm going to mention, Cap using skill has taken out people like Thunderball from the Wrecking Crew, Superhuman Werewolves, Armadillo, Iron Man while he had the Extremis Virus, Rhino, Kree Soldiers, Hell, if you wanna talk incredibly skilled opponents? Spider-Man, US Agent, Wolverine, etc... I'm sure I could find a dozen more, but the fact of the matter is that both are capable of taking on people far above their weight class, that's just a fact of comic books. The fact Batman can do it is not a trait that belongs to him and him alone.

You're confounding martial mastery as it is treated in comic books, with faster than the speed of sound reflexes.

Neither of the two can be demonstrated "in real life". Martial mastery allows Bruce to time bullets. Not faster than the speed of sound movement. There's also a very good reason his suit is designed to be bullet proof (for the most part).

Comic book martial artists have absolutely no connection to "real life" anything. Their skill is superhuman. Doesn't mean their bench presses should be. Not when they're designated as being in the peak human physical fitness levels. Bruce Wayne is designated as a man in peak physical condition. Able to lift more than twice his own body weight, but not in excess of 800 lbs. And to reach that pinnacle, he'd have to weight 400 lbs (or thereabouts). Which he does not.

Writers definitely get overzealous at times. That's what it really boils down to. DD has flipped a limo, and used a 400 lbs barbell as a bo stick. He'd have to lift in the 2 ton range to pull that off. So based off those feats, and your logic, Daredevil is now stronger than Batman.

Captain America, being enhanced, can lift 800 lbs (the maximum a human could ever lift in potentate ... though no human really does) as he is the absolute pinnacle of human physical perfection due to the serum.

@conner_wolf:

Except, Cap is perfectly capable of using pressure points, nerve strikes, etc... and while he doesn't scream out his moves like an anime character, both are a master of every single Martial Art, tacking on the special Martial Arts of their individual world.

I never said Steve couldn't do nerve strikes or pressure points. I was merely pointing out the fact thar Bruce (w/o screaming them out, those are the names the writers gave them) knows way more ways to incapacitate a man and those being Leapords Blow, Vibrating Palm Technique, Leaf Fall, etc.

Steve and Bruce aren't masters of every single fighting style. Bruce has mastered all fighting styles and knows 463 ways to incpacitate an opponent w/o drawing blood, Steve is adept in all fighting styles with knowledge in pressure points. There is a difference in there fighting knowledge. Like there is a difference in Bruce being a peak human and Steve being an enhanced human (Peak Human Potential).

And as support for Frisky, I'm going to mention, Cap using skill has taken out people like Thunderball from the Wrecking Crew, Superhuman Werewolves, Armadillo, Iron Man while he had the Extremis Virus, Rhino, Kree Soldiers, Hell, if you wanna talk incredibly skilled opponents? Spider-Man, US Agent, Wolverine, etc... I'm sure I could find a dozen more, but the fact of the matter is that both are capable of taking on people far above their weight class, that's just a fact of comic books. The fact Batman can do it is not a trait that belongs to him and him alone.

The assisance you were giving to was Imperfect_Cell, regarding the scans I showed him of Steel Wolf and The NKV Deamon, in order to show that Batman has faced enhanced people before and has did decent against them.

Yes there are many instance in which both Batman and Captain America have taken on enemies and heroes way out of there class and have held their own against, stalmated, and won against (They essentially fill the same role in each of their respective universes, give or take a few differences). I never stated this as trait that belongs to Batman (Its a trait that goes to every hero/villian), I was just pointing out that Batman like Captain America does face opponents way out of his class and does good.

As for this match set up in particular I see this one as a stalmate because while Steve does possess the physical advantage, Bruce does have the advantage in skill and I see them canceling each others advantages out more times than not especially since they both have their armors on.

@imperfect_cell: Fixed.

@conner_wolf: Never happened.

@lxlgiftedlxl: Giving them special names doesn't mean they're more effective than what Cap can use, as he's been able to take out everyone from scientists to Viper to werewolves to US Agent to Professor Hulk with Nerve strikes. It's not like it's going to be a massive factor in this battle anyway.

No, you've watched Death Battle haven't you? Captain America is a master of every single Martial Art, I know the scan they're referencing, and it's talking about WWII-era of skill, not his modern level of skill where he's defined to be a master. He rolls around with Black Panther-they consider one another equals in every category-Iron Fist, Wolverine, Daredevil, Batroc, Gambit, Black Widow, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Lady Deathstrike, Crossbones, and Taskmaster the real top-tier fighters of the Marvel Universe. Cap has even beaten a guy who's mastered every single fighting style on Earth. Whether you think he's a master or not, he's displayed the capability of being one. He knows all Martial Arts, and he's mastered them all within the past 30 years.

I consider Captain America and Batman equals in the department of skill, but Cap just takes too many advantages when it comes to physical abilities.

Could go either way but I'm backing batman for a majority due to a much sharper mind and being a bit more skilled. Caps physicals won't overwhelm Bruce.

@lxlgiftedlxl: It may be an instant knock-out, but if Cap can use them too, it's not going to tip the scales in anyone's favor.

It's the fact that he's defined as being a master in his own bio that pushes me to say that he's a master of every single Martial Art, as both that, and his stats put him at a master level. And I consider him fighting masters all the time and defeating them with his own skill a factor in him being a master. He's always considered one of the finest Martial Artists on Earth, how could someone who's only adept be one of the finest Martial Artists on Earth? Even if he wasn't a master-which he is-he adapts so well to any fighting style he's put up against, he has no trouble fighting other masters.

He's a better "detective" than Steve ... but a "much sharper mind"? Not really. Steve's intellect is enhanced, he's a proven high level strategist and this fight is a random. Bruce is more "clever" than Steve, but that will only help so much in a random encounter.

For me this is just like Deathstroke Vs Batman. The slight skill margin means nothing when you're physically outclassed. Cap wins.

I will gladly do a CaV (I have been itching for this actually) on this.

I will represent Steven.

any takers @saren?

Batman can beat him like he beat a Bane full of Venom (Steve physical stats won't help him that much against Batman). Batman skill just overwhelms Steve.

The problem with this is new 52 bane is somewhat inconsistent and bane isn't comparable to Steve in fighting style.

@conner_wolf: The reason why the incap. Is a factor is because why Cap can Pressure Points he doesnt know the other techniques Bruce knows by this i mean the moves I named above. So it is a factor.

His bio says that he has mastered many forms of fighting, not them all otherwise it would have said all instead . So he is a master of many fighting styles but not them all Like Batman.

Not saying Cap is a slouch in fighting, he most certainly is not, hes one of the best. But the edge in skill goes to Bruce while the edge in physical goes to Steve.

Which is why I go stalmate for this matchup.

Steve is highly overrated and Bruce is highly underrated

Problem @super_soldierxii?

@lxlgiftedlxl: Here's the thing, Cap would be able to stand up to Bruce, no question, nothing indicates that Batman's Martial Prowess is so highly above Cap's, even if he knows more Martial Arts, Cap has mastered his very own Martial Art that he states he created because no other Martial Art could measure up to his level of skill and physical ability. Even if he doesn't know as many, can you honestly say that Quantity makes it so Batman has such an advantage?-Even though I still believe Cap to be a master of all, I'll leave that much alone.

Cap should be able to stand up to Batman in Martial Arts, even if he doesn't know as many or more, do you honestly think his ability is below Batman's because he doesn't know as many.

Then when it comes to physicals, I'm sorry, Cap just trumps Batman hard. He doesn't get tired, he has the ability to take a small building-busting explosion without armor, healing factor, he rips through steel like it's made of paper, and his reaction time is so high he should be able to dodge Batman's attacks much more easily than Batman can dodge his own.

@super_soldierxii: Batman is a genius and his intelligence is superior to Caps in pretty much every way. He's not only a better detective he's also a better scientist, strategist, inventor and everything else. Cap is obviously smart but he isn't on at with Batman in that area.

@conner_wolf: I agree cap is physically superior to batman but not because of the reasons you listed. Batman fought in a death match for 28 hours straight with no breaks before getting tired. He won't tire out in a fight. Batman has also taken the explosions from a tank and a rocket launcher, and has ripped apart steel pipes and handcuffs many times. They really aren't that far apart, but cap does have an edge.

@conner_wolf: Like I said Cap is one of the best, so he should be able to do good in the fight (there is no reason to say he wouldnt be able too even though he is said to be adept) I am just saying due to Bats being a master of all styles gives him the advantage of not being suprised by moves and gives him the ability to be more unpredictable with his moves. Also Batman knows more ways to incapacitate than Cap does. Batman is the better one in this area in terms of skill.

When it comes to physicals like i have been saying in my past posts Cap is Superior here (plain and simple). However Batman has been shown to have pretty good physicals that allow him to fight for lon periods of time, take an obscene amount of damage, keep up with superior foes (Although Cap is better here). Plus Batmans training has saved him plenty of times against Superior foes and the same goes for Cap.

Hence is why I say this match is a toss up.

@super_soldierxii:

Neither of the two can be demonstrated "in real life". Martial mastery allows Bruce to time bullets. Not faster than the speed of sound movement. There's also a very good reason his suit is designed to be bullet proof (for the most part).

Neither can be because the nerves in a human body can't move that fast. The speed of sound travels three times faster than what the limit of the nerves of a human is. You do have to move as fast as the bullet in close range to be able to dodge it.

Regardless of wether or not Bruce's martial arts mastery has given him these kind of physicals or not, it does not matter, because we're talking about the term: ''physicality'', which includes physical stuff, and Bruce's martial arts mastery is what has given it to him. The point is; Bruce got that kind of physical regardless of how he got it.

Comic book martial artists have absolutely no connection to "real life" anything. Their skill is superhuman. Doesn't mean their bench presses should be. Not when they're designated as being in the peak human physical fitness levels.

Yeah, their skill may be superhuman and whatnot, but even if they're just said to be peak humans, it's still just fiction and we count feats as what they're capable of, not through how they were originally written or anything like that, or else, you'd see characters like Thor being as powerful as his classic incarnation, just the writers deemed him to be that powerful, but yet, we have him todat significantly weaker than what he was supposed to be.

Batman's bench pressing feats are consistent, and that's what we measure their capability by, not one word against thousands of showings.

Writers definitely get overzealous at times. That's what it really boils down to. DD has flipped a limo, and used a 400 lbs barbell as a bo stick. He'd have to lift in the 2 ton range to pull that off. So based off those feats, and your logic, Daredevil is now stronger than Batman.

No, because Batman got feats that tops those feats Daredevil has performed. Writers do that with their characters sometimes (and that's called PIS), but if it's consistent, then there's nothing overzealus about it.

Captain America, being enhanced, can lift 800 lbs (the maximum a human could ever lift in potentate ... though no human really does) as he is the absolute pinnacle of human physical perfection due to the serum.

And Batman got feats that matches what Cap does. Feats are what we measure them by.

@jayc1324 said:

Being a scientist or inventor is not going to help him in a random fight.

The only element that will is strategy ... and with Steve's enhanced intellect and proven leadership, he's proven he's got that in spades. We're not talking about strategic prep here. We're talking about innovative ways to win a random fight. Which Steve has done aplenty (why he was able to contain one of the Apocalypse twins, and was why he took out Starfox and defeated Thunderstrike etc. etc. etc.). Bruce is not leagues ahead of Steve in this regard. Not even close.

@captain_batman_ftw

Neither can be because the nerves in a human body can't move that fast. The speed of sound travels three times faster than what the limit of the nerves of a human is. You do have to move as fast as the bullet in close range to be able to dodge it.

Not if they're timing the shooter they don't. Not in comic land. Only enhanced and superhuman heroes actually dodge bullets (with aid from skill and the fact they are timing the shooters as well). The others, like Batman, they time them. Steve can dodge because he is enhanced and his senses permit (coupled with martial skill).

Bruce is a master at being where his opponents don't expect him to be either. He reads a shooter from a mile away and has the skill to vanish pretty much in plain sight. What he doesn't do is move faster than the speed of sound.

Regardless of wether or not Bruce's martial arts mastery has given him these kind of physicals or not, it does not matter, because we're talking about the term: ''physicality'', which includes physical stuff, and Bruce's martial arts mastery is what has given it to him. The point is; Bruce got that kind of physical regardless of how he got it.

Not consistently he doesn't no. Striking power, I can get that a certain brand of inner "chi" through martial mastery has allowed for Bruce to hit stuff really, really hard. Bruce punching through brick walls and punching through a large tree trunk I can boil down to martial chi in comic land. Fine. I don't take exception to Bruce supporting a 1000 lbs roof either ... as that feat is congruous to what really strong men can do (core and leg strength far supersede power lifting & bench pressing power).

But saying Bruce can toss around 1000 lbs just like an enhanced Captain America can due to said showing, and due to a bench press showing, where the artist obviously was limited in what he knew to portray and how, (plates don't even look big enough to be 45 lbs plates, let alone the size he was trying to convey) is dumb and boils down to Writer Induced Stupidity (there's a good damn reason the term exists on the Vine bud).

The point is, he doesn't have those physicals. He is not a meta human. He never "got it".

Yeah, their skill may be superhuman and whatnot, but even if they're just said to be peak humans, it's still just fiction and we count feats as what they're capable of, not through how they were originally written or anything like that, or else, you'd see characters like Thor being as powerful as his classic incarnation, just the writers deemed him to be that powerful, but yet, we have him todat significantly weaker than what he was supposed to be.

Batman's bench pressing feats are consistent, and that's what we measure their capability by, not one word against thousands of showings.

No, Batman's bench press feat is not consistent. Show where he's tossed 1000 pounds around easily before? Tossed anything resembling that weight before?

Folks like to toss this one around;

Not realizing he had to yank the pipe through the far weaker roof foundation, because he couldn't break through rope. Yeah he's strong, but he doesn't toss around the kind of weight Steve does.

Has problems dead lifting 630 pounds (and well he should);

That's consistency for you?

Wolverine's has well over a dozen showings placing him at the low level super human feat range strength wise ... right where Marvel states he's at. Captain America has dozens of feats placing him at an enhanced level (breaking chains, bending bars, tossing a 1000 pound Bertha into the air etc. etc.). Right where Marvel states he's at. Bruce has trouble lifting weight a peak human should have trouble lifting. Right where DC states he's at.

He's not on CA's physical level bud. Sorry.

No, because Batman got feats that tops those feats Daredevil has performed. Writers do that with their characters sometimes (and that's called PIS), but if it's consistent, then there's nothing overzealus about it.

No Batman does not have feats that outweigh tossing over a limo, or throwing around a 400 pound barbell like a bo stick. Not even close. Let alone "consistently".

And Batman got feats that matches what Cap does. Feats are what we measure them by.

No he doesn't. Show him running at 60 mile per hour then we'll end this conversation. Show him breaking through chains? No? How about a CLEAR representation of what he can bench press like this one here;

There's no mistaking that one. repping out with 1100 pounds.

Let's see a wounded Batman do this;

Then there's the power with which he consistently tosses that shield of his;

You're delusional if you think Bruce is as physically enhanced as Captain America. He's not. Not leagues below him, but Steve's advantages are more than enough to question as to who would win this fight.

No he doesn't. Show him running at 60 mile per hour then we'll end this conversation. Show him breaking through chains? No? How about a CLEAR representation of what he can bench press like this one here;

Here he is shown benching 1000 pounds. Steve is obviously the superior, but the physical edge is still pretty close regardless.

@super_soldierxii: Batman: Venom is not canon. So your deadlift feat is meaningless.

Cap has better speed/reflexes/brain than Slade, but strength near Pre 52 Bane...not on venom.

Morals on for both will prevent Steve from unloading against street levelers at Batman/Daredevil/Taskmaster level.

And Batman still has his Suit and bulletproof cape.

Someone is going to show the scans of Batman holding onto a jet turbine for a village n monologue...

No gear and Steve takes 8-10/10.

As it is, stalemate. Bruce's armor is strong and light enough for him to have better durability than Cap can reliably put out. Batman's gauntlets were able to block Slade's promethium sword a few weeks ago.

@super_soldierxii:

Not if they're timing the shooter they don't. Not in comic land. Only enhanced and superhuman heroes actually dodge bullets (with aid from skill and the fact they are timing the shooters as well). The others, like Batman, they time them. Steve can dodge because he is enhanced and his senses permit (coupled with martial skill).

Bruce is a master at being where his opponents don't expect him to be either. He reads a shooter from a mile away and has the skill to vanish pretty much in plain sight. What he doesn't do is move faster than the speed of sound.

I see no difference between these two scans:

Enhanced, superhumans and superheroes. In order to dodge bullets, he'd need to move faster than the speed of sound, which is what he did in the scan I posted.

But saying Bruce can toss around 1000 lbs just like an enhanced Captain America can due to said showing, and due to a bench press showing, where the artist obviously was limited in what he knew to portray and how, (plates don't even look big enough to be 45 lbs plates, let alone the size he was trying to convey) is dumb and boils down to Writer Induced Stupidity (there's a good damn reason the term exists on the Vine bud).

I'm not gonna say that he can do it, but he's supported weights within that area plenty of times before. Stopping a speeding car sure as hell puts him on par with Cap in terms of lifting strenght. There are plenty of more instances (I can post them if you want to, but I'm not into scan bombing) where Batman has shown similar strenght to this feat (such as supporting one ton of weight, lifting huge concrete objects that were multiple times larger than himself during Cataclysm, etc), but this scan should get my point across:

is dumb and boils down to Writer Induced Stupidity (there's a good damn reason the term exists on the Vine bud).

You can tell that to Grant Morrison, Chuck Dixon, Judd Winnick, Scott Snyder and plenty of other writers that have portrayed Batman like that, bud ;)

The point is, he doesn't have those physicals. He is not a meta human. He never "got it".

Bruce is superhuman, because he performs feats beyond the physical shape of a normal peak human.

Going by your logic; peak humans (from what it seems like you're viewing this all as) in real life should be capable of kicking down steel doors.

No, Batman's bench press feat is not consistent. Show where he's tossed 1000 pounds around easily before? Tossed anything resembling that weight before?

Once again, he doesn't toss around those type of stuff, because he doesn't need to do so, since there's no need in it, but I can show you instances of him bending steel rods.

Not realizing he had to yank the pipe through the far weaker roof foundation, because he couldn't break through rope. Yeah he's strong, but he doesn't toss around the kind of weight Steve does.

He just tossed this huge pipe, but whatever. He couldn't break through the rope because his arms were behind his back.

Has problems dead lifting 630 pounds (and well he should);

Troughout the dozens of instances, you pick one to try and lowball Batman? Inconsistencies happens to everyone, and I didn't mean consistent in the way that he does it all the time, just that he does it most of the time. You're trying to lowball Bats, I see that, but really, there are so many instances that contradicts your word. He shouldn't have any problems with lifting 630 pounds and your weak attempt at trying to downplay him won't help you. I can drop 5 more instances of him doing something that contradicts to this. I'll do it now:

• He's lifted concrete that was multiple times larger than himself:

Gallery

Keep in mind that the weight this concrete had managed to bend the steel rod that held it.

• He was casually bench pressing 1000 punds during a regular everyday training:

• Thousand pounds again:

• Pulls open the trunk of a car under water (meaning that there wasa lot of pressure):

• He tore through steel restraints while his mind was being played with:

Gallery

Your lowballing won't help you.

No Batman does not have feats that outweigh tossing over a limo, or throwing around a 400 pound barbell like a bo stick. Not even close. Let alone "consistently".

Yes, he actually does, and I posted one here, where he stopped a speeding car with his strenght alone. As for the 400 puund barbell feat Daredevil has; Batman has thrown around a 600 pound Man-Bat, so there's that feat.

No he doesn't. Show him running at 60 mile per hour then we'll end this conversation. Show him breaking through chains? No? How about a CLEAR representation of what he can bench press like this one here;

Running 60mph? Is that supposed to mean anything? Steve can have all the running speed he wants to, but that doesn't change the fact that Bruce equals him in strenght, durability and other important factors. Still, Batman got feats such as seeming to teleport and he has also vanished from Azrael when Azrael's eyes were on Batman. Show me Cap being so fast that he can vanish from characters as fast as Azrael.

Chains? that's cute, he did it in Batman Shadow of the Bat #0:

Gallery

BTW, he was weakend.

There's no mistaking that one. repping out with 1100 pounds.

Batman actually got better feats than this, but let's say that he can only lift 1000 pounds; do you think that 100 more pounds make you physically superior to someone?

Let's see a wounded Batman do this;

huh, Batman put down a steel door by kicking a Talon into it:

Gallery

Pretty sure that kicking someone so hard that their impact had so much force that a steel dor was busted, puts him on par with Cap.

This is isn't the first time Batman has kicked down a steel door.

Then there's the power with which he consistently tosses that shield of his;

Huh, let's just leave out the fact that Cap tossed an indestructable shield at the Cap, which just so randomly can be used as something sharp as well.

You're delusional if you think Bruce is as physically enhanced as Captain America. He's not. Not leagues below him, but Steve's advantages are more than enough to question as to who would win this fight.

I'm not delusional, I'm just not biased. I'll admit when Bruce is outmatched physically (which I have done many times), but this is not one of them. The fact that you think that Bruce's limit is 630 pounds explains how you managed to confuse yourself with Cap being Batman's physical superior.

@super_soldierxii: Being a scientist can help. I remember a scene in iron man 3 where tony beat Ellen Brandt by making a bomb with a microwave. Being a scientist can help, and Batman's knowledge can very well help to think of ways to beat Cap.

Batman is a better strategist than Steve. I said Steve was good, but not as good as Batman, even when he doesn't have prep.

Batman ! - batmans durability is far better then capts , batman can tank gun fire from a machine gun because of the suit he's wearing, capt on the other hand has just plan old kevlar as far as l know , lm also going to be lgnoring the fact bats has alot of gadgets built into his suit , on top of that batmans a master fighter capts very good but he's adopt , so eventually capt is going to run out of counters, batman also is a better at strategy all round and l dare say vastly more intelligent at least when it comes to book smarts , batman has beaten super humans before who are far above capt in speed and strength, like 5 to 10 ton level , so l don't see capts tiny advantage making a difference.

@jayc1324: If we're allowed to use Batman tanking a tank, then Cap was able to take punches from Kluh as an old man.

@captain_batman_ftw:

I see no difference between these two scans:

I do. But you're a bit blinded by trying to prove your point.

Enhanced, superhumans and superheroes. In order to dodge bullets, he'd need to move faster than the speed of sound, which is what he did in the scan I posted.

No he didn't. He timed the shooter. Was already in his line of sight. Bruce timed the shooter.

I'm not gonna say that he can do it, but he's supported weights within that area plenty of times before.

No he hasn't.

Stopping a speeding car sure as hell puts him on par with Cap in terms of lifting strenght.

No it doesn't.

There are plenty of more instances (I can post them if you want to, but I'm not into scan bombing)

Says you ... right before you proceed to "scan bomb".

where Batman has shown similar strenght to this feat (such as supporting one ton of weight, lifting huge concrete objects that were multiple times larger than himself during Cataclysm, etc), but this scan should get my point across:

You can't be dumb enough to think that Batman was doing anything other than hitching a ride in that scan. The car was still moving just fine. He did not stop the speeding car. For the love of ...

You can tell that to Grant Morrison, Chuck Dixon, Judd Winnick, Scott Snyder and plenty of other writers that have portrayed Batman like that, bud ;)

You're exaggerating and again, you're wrong. Not one of them think of Batman as anything more than a peak human with sensational martial ability "bud".

Bruce is superhuman, because he performs feats beyond the physical shape of a normal peak human.

His martial ability is superhuman. His stats are not. Ask each and everyone of the writers you just mentioned ... they'll tell you the same.

He just tossed this huge pipe, but whatever. He couldn't break through the rope because his arms were behind his back.

Because he was not strong enough to. Wolverine has done so plenty ... because he is every bit the low level superhuman you are desperately trying to peg Bruce to be. Steve has broken from from huge chains restraining his arms far out to his sides with no leverage ...

Troughout the dozens of instances, you pick one to try and lowball Batman? Inconsistencies happens to everyone, and I didn't mean consistent in the way that he does it all the time, just that he does it most of the time. You're trying to lowball Bats, I see that, but really, there are so many instances that contradicts your word. He shouldn't have any problems with lifting 630 pounds and your weak attempt at trying to downplay him won't help you. I can drop 5 more instances of him doing something that contradicts to this. I'll do it now:

Not inconsistent. Good writing. That is perfectly consistent to Bruce's attributes as DC delineates them to be. There are no "dozens" of other instances bud. You exaggerate at every turn. But yeah, we can look at the "5" instances you posted.

1. He took "some" of the strain of the portion of the wall. The post was still in place. He didn't "lift" it. I see nothing there not in line with what a peak human should be able to do.
2. I have already addressed the bench pressing scan. The artist had no idea what he was portraying. The weight as drawn is NO WHERE near what 1000 lbs should look like or 500 lbs plates. Again, a case of overzealous work. At the most, the artist was trying to suggest Bruce was repping with 500 lbs total. There are multiple plates on each end of the bar to boot. Which plate is purportedly 500 lbs bud? 500 lbs plates don't even exist. It's just dumb to adhere to that. But I'm starting to be a lot less surprised. Jeez man.
3. Already addressed the roof scan. He was supporting the weight which he absorbed while already wedged in place. Perfectly legit feat that many strong men could replicate. It in no way suggests Bruce was actually lifting, or could actually lift, 1000 lbs.
4. Trunk feat is impressive ... reasonable feat for a peak human in comic land.
5. Nothing indicating what kind of restraints he was being held by. Not chains, not ropes ... looks like he compromised the joints of some dumb looking restraints if you ask me ... and a cop-out as the writer doesn't have to explain how Bruce can break through chains. Which he can't.

Your lowballing won't help you.

There's no low balling going on. I'm just far, far more objective than you are. I get it, he's your fav. I won't judge.

Yes, he actually does, and I posted one here, where he stopped a speeding car with his strenght alone. As for the 400 puund barbell feat Daredevil has; Batman has thrown around a 600 pound Man-Bat, so there's that feat.

Yeah. Don't remind me. I'm still chuckling at that one. Lol. Please know that Bruce did no such thing. Please.

Running 60mph? Is that supposed to mean anything? Steve can have all the running speed he wants to, but that doesn't change the fact that Bruce equals him in strenght, durability and other important factors. Still, Batman got feats such as seeming to teleport and he has also vanished from Azrael when Azrael's eyes were on Batman. Show me Cap being so fast that he can vanish from characters as fast as Azrael.

Yes, running at 60 mph and "seeing faster", healing faster ... these are all relevant to point out Steve is enhanced and Bruce is not. You're adhering to very, very poor interpretations of a handful of scans yanked from thousands of showings to try and prove Bruce has superhuman stats. Bruce's feats are well in line with comic book definition of peak human. You'll have to face that reality on the Vine sooner or later.

Chains? that's cute, he did it in Batman Shadow of the Bat #0:

What's cute is, once again, your rather dumb interpretation of these scans. He did not break the chains. He compromised the moorings fastening them to the wall. Which is not outside of the realm of peak human ability.

huh, Batman put down a steel door by kicking a Talon into it:

Nah, Talon already had that door licked. The door was distorted due to his pounding. It was weakened, but Bruce kicking him through it had a nice grandiose effect though. The hinges (look at the image) more than the door itself, were compromised in the end. Cap peeling back foot thick iron doors without compromising said hinges and while injured? Far more impressive.

I think we're pretty much done here. You've got nothing.

@conner_wolf: Yup, and that's fine. I said Cap was a little bit superior, just not for the reasons you listed since batman has done a lot of that stuff too.