Captain America & Daredevil VS Wolverine

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jashro44

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Captain America & Daredevil

VS
VS

Wolverine

No Caption Provided

Rules

  • Team has morals on, wolverine is morals off
  • Random encounter
  • Standard gear
  • Win by KO/Incapacitation/death

location

  • Begin visible
  • Begin 50 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:
No Caption Provided

Who wins and why?

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capall2

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#2  Edited By capall2

Cap alone is already formidable against Logan, adding Mat pretty much solidifies the victory for team here imo...

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chris_t3258c0

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With wolverine being bloodlusted, I think he wins. He'll do what they won't.

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DeathSamurai

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like capall2 said cap can beat wolvie alone adding DD is a solid win, and even if hes going for the kill one clean shot with that shiel and wolvie is sleeping

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ImNemotheGemini

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#5  Edited By ImNemotheGemini

Both Cap and Wolverine have embarrassed each other in the past ! Matt would just hurt himself punching and kicking Wolverine ! Nerve strikes won't do much but hinder him for a moment either ! A blood lusted wolverine is more than likely in berserker rage which means poor Matt and Cap will end up like Punisher after Daken got through with him !

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Strider1992

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#6  Edited By Strider1992

Wolverine would win this even if he wasn't bloodlusted. Without PIS or CIS DD and Cap are bringing nothing to the table to even faze Logan in slightest (unless he was boneclaw). They can't KO him, they can't incap him, heck they can't even deal any lasting damage to him.

Bloodlusted Wolverine stomps. Morals On Wolverine takes a very solid majority after a medium length fight.

@god_spawn tell them!

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capall2

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Wolverine would win this even if he wasn't bloodlusted. Without PIS or CIS DD and Cap are bringing nothing to the table to even faze Logan in slightest (unless he was boneclaw). They can't KO him, they can't incap him, heck they can't even deal any lasting damage to him.

Bloodlusted Wolverine stomps. Morals On Wolverine takes a very solid majority after a medium length fight.

@god_spawn tell them!

how do you figure Logan can not be ko'd or incap'ed nor even hurt? Yes Logan has amazing hf...the team has more than enough skill set to win here...how about repeated blows from cap's shield, you saying that wouldn't hurt or ko Logan if got hit in the head several times? Nerve strikes also work on Logan even if it's only temporary...Blood lusted Logan means that he is fighting with high emotions rather than fully utilizing his martial skills with intellect, if anything this may put him at an disadvantage against very skill combatants such as this team...Logan's blood lust works traditionally better against more powerful opponents with less skill imho...

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dondave

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Wolverine

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god_spawn

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#9  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@strider92: They can incapacitate him via tie up with DD's club cables if done right, but I can agree he wins this. We've seen how quickly Logan has been able to turn the tide on Cap in fight with morals on and DD's capable of holding his own for a bit due to radar sense and reflexes, but these guys aren't packing much to take a majority.

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batnorris

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@strider92: They can incapacitate him via tie up with DD's club cables if done right, but I can agree he wins this. We've seen how quickly Logan has been able to turn the tide on Cap in fight with morals on and DD's capable of holding his own for a bit due to radar sense and reflexes, but these guys aren't packing much to take a majority.

DD HAS TIED SPIDEY UP TO A POLE ONCE. NOW THE TWO HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH WINS AND SUCH, BUT THAT'S A VERY IMPRESSIVE TESTAMENT TO HIS ACROBATIC ABILITY. that combined with the fact that him and cap have already shown him up at least once is very important to remember. i think these two together just show logan up, morals on or off.

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god_spawn

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#11  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@capall2 said:

@strider92 said:

Wolverine would win this even if he wasn't bloodlusted. Without PIS or CIS DD and Cap are bringing nothing to the table to even faze Logan in slightest (unless he was boneclaw). They can't KO him, they can't incap him, heck they can't even deal any lasting damage to him.

Bloodlusted Wolverine stomps. Morals On Wolverine takes a very solid majority after a medium length fight.

@god_spawn tell them!

how do you figure Logan can not be ko'd or incap'ed nor even hurt? Yes Logan has amazing hf...the team has more than enough skill set to win here...how about repeated blows from cap's shield, you saying that wouldn't hurt or ko Logan if got hit in the head several times? Nerve strikes also work on Logan even if it's only temporary...Blood lusted Logan means that he is fighting with high emotions rather than fully utilizing his martial skills with intellect, if anything this may put him at an disadvantage against very skill combatants such as this team...Logan's blood lust works traditionally better against more powerful opponents with less skill imho...

Because Logan has taken hits from vastly beyond class 100 characters and still kept going? And even in recent showings Kaine Scarlet Spider almost broke his hand punching Logan's skull and admitted he couldn't physically put him down like that. You're also suggesting nerve strikes will work when they won't. You're saying they would be temporary, how about a split second that treats the strike like a normal attack? I mean unless you want to bring in that piss poor showing of Ennis that Daredevil did even though Ennis hates Wolverine, then you have no evidence. Shingen and Echo couldn't do jack about it so if DD and Cap try a nerve strike they won't do anything at all. And just because he's morals off here doesn't mean he's bloodlusted and is going to be going into a berserker rage, it means he just won't care what happens, isn't restricted to an in character mentality like you are trying to bring up by being bloodlusted, and they little to no defense for getting dismembered or disembolwed on his first strikes. He's already treated Cap like a joke in their latest fight, and Daredevil doesn't have defense against those claws. He also has a degree of skill that is already superior to both on their own so he isn't coming into this fighting like a lunatic. He's going to hit them before him and one hit is all it will take.

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Strider1992

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#12  Edited By Strider1992

DD HAS TIED SPIDEY UP TO A POLE ONCE. NOW THE TWO HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH WINS AND SUCH, BUT THAT'S A VERY IMPRESSIVE TESTAMENT TO HIS ACROBATIC ABILITY. that combined with the fact that him and cap have already shown him up at least once is very important to remember. i think these two together just show logan up, morals on or off.

DD beating Spider-man in a random encounter without an interfering factor is CIS. There is absolutely nothing that DD brings to the table that should give him a win over Parker.

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comic_book_fan

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#13  Edited By comic_book_fan
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capall2

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#14  Edited By capall2

@capall2 said:

@strider92 said:

Wolverine would win this even if he wasn't bloodlusted. Without PIS or CIS DD and Cap are bringing nothing to the table to even faze Logan in slightest (unless he was boneclaw). They can't KO him, they can't incap him, heck they can't even deal any lasting damage to him.

Bloodlusted Wolverine stomps. Morals On Wolverine takes a very solid majority after a medium length fight.

@god_spawn tell them!

how do you figure Logan can not be ko'd or incap'ed nor even hurt? Yes Logan has amazing hf...the team has more than enough skill set to win here...how about repeated blows from cap's shield, you saying that wouldn't hurt or ko Logan if got hit in the head several times? Nerve strikes also work on Logan even if it's only temporary...Blood lusted Logan means that he is fighting with high emotions rather than fully utilizing his martial skills with intellect, if anything this may put him at an disadvantage against very skill combatants such as this team...Logan's blood lust works traditionally better against more powerful opponents with less skill imho...

Because Logan has taken hits from vastly beyond class 100 characters and still kept going? And even in recent showings Kaine Scarlet Spider almost broke his hand punching Logan's skull and admitted he couldn't physically put him down like that. You're also suggesting nerve strikes will work when they won't. You're saying they would be temporary, how about a split second that treats the strike like a normal attack? I mean unless you want to bring in that piss poor showing of Ennis that Daredevil did even though Ennis hates Wolverine, then you have no evidence. Shingen and Echo couldn't do jack about it so if DD and Cap try a nerve strike they won't do anything at all. And just because he's morals off here doesn't mean he's bloodlusted and is going to be going into a berserker rage, it means he just won't care what happens, isn't restricted to an in character mentality like you are trying to bring up by being bloodlusted, and they little to no defense for getting dismembered or disembolwed on his first strikes. He's already treated Cap like a joke in their latest fight, and Daredevil doesn't have defense against those claws. He also has a degree of skill that is already superior to both on their own so he isn't coming into this fighting like a lunatic. He's going to hit them before him and one hit is all it will take.

Cap and Mat don't need to hit Logan in the skull with their fists as they have standard weapons of their own...there is no need to discuss Logan's durability and hf as we already know, Logan is wicked as he is one of my all time fav...he just ain't good enough to take on Cap and Mat at the same time and win the majority regardless of blood lust or not...you said yourself, if Logan is blood lusted then he just won't care what happens...(as in if he gets hits or if he kills the opponents) this does make a difference since he isn't just fight a brick, he is fighting opponents with COMBINED better or on par skill set, this also means that he is susceptible to taking on more accurate strikes...there is no question Logan's claws can dismember or disembowel...the real question is would he be able to do so against 2 very skilled opponents?

Has Cap or Mat ever been dismember or disembowelled before? then there is no reason to believe it will happen here, especially if it never happened in their previous encounters...on top of that this is a 2 on 1...

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capall2

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@batnorris said:

DD HAS TIED SPIDEY UP TO A POLE ONCE. NOW THE TWO HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH WINS AND SUCH, BUT THAT'S A VERY IMPRESSIVE TESTAMENT TO HIS ACROBATIC ABILITY. that combined with the fact that him and cap have already shown him up at least once is very important to remember. i think these two together just show logan up, morals on or off.

DD beating Spider-man in a random encounter without an interfering factor is CIS. There is absolutely nothing that DD brings to the table that should give him a win over Parker.

fully agreed...lol

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god_spawn

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#16  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@capall2:

Cap and Mat don't need to hit Logan in the skull with their fists as they have standard weapons of their own...there is no need to discuss Logan's durability and hf as we already know, Logan is wicked as he is one of my all time fav...he just ain't good enough to take on Cap and Mat at the same time and win the majority regardless of blood lust or not...you said yourself, if Logan is blood lusted then he just won't care what happens...(as in if he gets hits or if he kills the opponents) this does make a difference since he isn't just fight a brick, he is fighting opponents with COMBINED better or on par skill set, this also means that he is susceptible to taking on more accurate strikes...there is no question Logan's claws can dismember or disembowel...the real question is would he be able to do so against 2 very skilled opponents?

You're taking what I said out of context by saying he doesn't care what happens. I said it in terms of what he does to them. He isn't fighting like a berserker here or going in a rage. He's fighting to the best of his capabilities and of the skill and powerset he has without the moral conditions of his character holding him back. He's going for the kill as quick and efficiently as possible. That is what no morals means. and he doesn't need to be leagues above either at the same time for it to matter. He's better than both 1 on 1 and is competent enough to make it a factor here at a huge advantage with his powers which is something they cannot compensate for. They will get hit and he isn't going for cosmetic damage like he has in the past with these two or when he isn't out of his mind and arguably weakened like in Enemy of the State.

Has Cap or Mat ever been dismember or disembowelled before? then there is no reason to believe it will happen here, especially if it never happened in their previous encounters...on top of that this is a 2 on 1...

Really? This is kind of like saying they can't be dismembered because Logan hasn't done it to them yet...You know, maybe he never did because he was in character? Because out of all his fights with Cap, he never once went for that type of strike. He already showed he can slash the shield straps off of Steve's arm, slash his stomach with a flesh wound slash, and kick him away all in one motion. So by that logic, he couldn't have completely severed his arm, opened up his stomach and kicked him against a wall? I find that silly to think just because he hasn't done it to one when both are heroes in MU and couldn't be afforded to get killed often everytime someone fights with Logan.

They will come in for hits, some will land. He will go for hits and some will land. Only problem is he needs only 1 strike to dispatch one of them. They need a barrage and even then it's arguable they won't put him down.

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batnorris

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@batnorris said:

DD HAS TIED SPIDEY UP TO A POLE ONCE. NOW THE TWO HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH WITH WINS AND SUCH, BUT THAT'S A VERY IMPRESSIVE TESTAMENT TO HIS ACROBATIC ABILITY. that combined with the fact that him and cap have already shown him up at least once is very important to remember. i think these two together just show logan up, morals on or off.

DD beating Spider-man in a random encounter without an interfering factor is CIS. There is absolutely nothing that DD brings to the table that should give him a win over Parker.

you dont think i know that? there is a difference between natural agility and honed acrobatic ability. dd displays his perfected use of certain acrobatic manuevers when fighting spiderman and that's what keeps him on pete's back all the time. i know that dd should never beat spiderman, i'm simply showing how crafty he could be against a superior opponent with his acrobatic ability.

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capall2

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#18  Edited By capall2

@capall2:

Cap and Mat don't need to hit Logan in the skull with their fists as they have standard weapons of their own...there is no need to discuss Logan's durability and hf as we already know, Logan is wicked as he is one of my all time fav...he just ain't good enough to take on Cap and Mat at the same time and win the majority regardless of blood lust or not...you said yourself, if Logan is blood lusted then he just won't care what happens...(as in if he gets hits or if he kills the opponents) this does make a difference since he isn't just fight a brick, he is fighting opponents with COMBINED better or on par skill set, this also means that he is susceptible to taking on more accurate strikes...there is no question Logan's claws can dismember or disembowel...the real question is would he be able to do so against 2 very skilled opponents?

You're taking what I said out of context by saying he doesn't care what happens. I said it in terms of what he does to them. He isn't fighting like a berserker here or going in a rage. He's fighting to the best of his capabilities and of the skill and powerset he has without the moral conditions of his character holding him back. He's going for the kill as quick and efficiently as possible. That is what no morals means. and he doesn't need to be leagues above either at the same time for it to matter. He's better than both 1 on 1 and is competent enough to make it a factor here at a huge advantage with his powers which is something they cannot compensate for. They will get hit and he isn't going for cosmetic damage like he has in the past with these two or when he isn't out of his mind and arguably weakened like in Enemy of the State.

Has Cap or Mat ever been dismember or disembowelled before? then there is no reason to believe it will happen here, especially if it never happened in their previous encounters...on top of that this is a 2 on 1...

Really? This is kind of like saying they can't be dismembered because Logan hasn't done it to them yet...You know, maybe he never did because he was in character? Because out of all his fights with Cap, he never once went for that type of strike. He already showed he can slash the shield straps off of Steve's arm, slash his stomach with a flesh wound slash, and kick him away all in one motion. So by that logic, he couldn't have completely severed his arm, opened up his stomach and kicked him against a wall? I find that silly to think just because he hasn't done it to one when both are heroes in MU and couldn't be afforded to get killed often everytime someone fights with Logan.

They will come in for hits, some will land. He will go for hits and some will land. Only problem is he needs only 1 strike to dispatch one of them. They need a barrage and even then it's arguable they won't put him down.

I'm not taking what you said out of context as I stated my reason already in regards to the state of his emotions...if he is so blood lusted what guarantees that he won't go into berserker rage? It's not a matter of he hasn't done it in the past but rather it's that easy to do so...especially here when its 2 on 1...yes some hits will land and some hits will be blocked or avoided...and both Cap and Mat has enough skill set to avoid the strikes that will kill them in the process...Logan is awesome and skilled, to be fair neither Cap and Mat has ever fought Logan while they were all blood lusted in a fight so it doesn't really matter...I fully agree that Logan has more potential to land a killing blow due to his claws, however potential is only potential, it is exactly what it is...potential doesn't = actual final results...

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Super_SoldierXII

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If written in a Marvel title, DD and Cap would definitely win via plot, or classic Wolverine character stupidity (Raar!! Roar!! followed by a "swing and a miss" then "BONK" and Wolverine's KO'd) with Cap and Matt the only ones fighting with half a brain.

Let's show off that healing factor folks!

That said, if the fan base are to look at power sets, skill sets, consistent feats and such, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if we remove the WIS and PIS involved in Logan's damage output, a fight with Wolverine should prove fatal to both before Logan gets taken out - and this more often than not.

Wolverine is just as fast or faster. I'm talking about combat reflexes - not agility, avoidance or acrobatics as, let's face it, with his durability Wolverine doesn't need to be superior in either or. Logan's definitely stronger (this cannot be refuted), he shares in DD's heightened senses advantages to a large degree, and is purportedly an even better fighter than both Matt and Steve (yes, yes, when he chooses skill over tankage). And, of course, his durability is off the charts in comparison. All this said, the MAJOR point, the principle advantage that sadly almost NEVER bares fruit, is his superior damage output. This means if he hits them once, they should be dead with but a smidgen of realistic writing. However, If the usual cosmetic crap happens (as it must when fighting other icons, not to kill off whoever he's fighting) then we'll be left with what essentially boils down to; "Egad!! The brute scratched my rosy cheek every so slightly with those beastly claws!! Oh no! Whatever am I to do, someone run and get a band-aide while I punch him and KO him with a perfectly placed shield strike in response!!" After all, he'll heal up just fine.

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laflux

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#21  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator
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deactivated-5eb43747b6f33

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Taking the team here. Cap and Wolverine have both beaten each other before and Daredevil has used nerve strikes effectively on Wolverine before as well.

The two of them teamed up should be able to take down Wolverine, though the bloodlust will make it more difficult. Still pulling for the team though.

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Chibi_cute

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#23  Edited By Chibi_cute

Captain and DD wins here.

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cfrehse

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@chris_t3258c0: i think they would't hold back against wolverine because they both know wolverine always gets up after a while.

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cfrehse

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@super_soldierxii: Wolverine is not stronger than cap. He is stronger than daredevil

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comic_book_fan

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wolverine can lift up to 1200 pounds.

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New_World_Order

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#27  Edited By New_World_Order

Team possibly, but it's most likely Wolverine's fight to win.

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#28  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@capall2:

I'm not taking what you said out of context as I stated my reason already in regards to the state of his emotions...if he is so blood lusted what guarantees that he won't go into berserker rage? It's not a matter of he hasn't done it in the past but rather it's that easy to do so...especially here when its 2 on 1...yes some hits will land and some hits will be blocked or avoided...and both Cap and Mat has enough skill set to avoid the strikes that will kill them in the process...Logan is awesome and skilled, to be fair neither Cap and Mat has ever fought Logan while they were all blood lusted in a fight so it doesn't really matter...I fully agree that Logan has more potential to land a killing blow due to his claws, however potential is only potential, it is exactly what it is...potential doesn't = actual final results...

The OP never said he was bloodlusted, he just has no morals. He isn't in a rage fueled frenzy. That does not mean he's floundering around going raaaaaah! And it isn't really potential, he's tagged both of them before and done so in a matter without severely killing or maiming them. The team has morals on, Wolverine does not. He's not looking to just hinder them, he's looking to kill and doing so in their most capable fashion without being hindered by his morals. He's going all out, they might not because they do have morals on, and even if they come at him as hard as they can, the results will still be the same. The OP mentions no bloodlust for either. They come in for attack, they can land one, but Logan has shown the speed and skill that he will manage to hit one of them as well. And due to his damage soak, this will happen before they can definitively put him down if they can at all. And that's all he needs to just eliminate one of them; one hit. And once one falls, the other one isn't lasting long at all.

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#29  Edited By laflux

@comic_book_fan said:

wolverine can lift up to 1200 pounds.

Nah, his probable Max Lifting weight is around 2 tons, based on his top end feats.

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comic_book_fan

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@laflux: well yeah but I was going by what is stated in most power listings.

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Stronger

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Either one should give Wolverine a run for his money.

Team stomps.

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#32 god_spawn  Moderator

@laflux: well yeah but I was going by what is stated in most power listings.

Most power listings I have seen say somewhere between 800 pounds and 2 tons. So, I haven't seen 1200 lbs yet.

@stronger said:

Either one should give Wolverine a run for his money.

Team stomps.

Either one can give him a run when he's in character or hindered in some fashion like they have before. Top condition and no morals Logan vs them with morals on and they stomp? Pfft, Brubaker, someone that established Cap for years had Cap on the losing end in one panel when Logan cranked up to using his martial arts abilities.

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@god_spawn:

That doesn't mean he could take them both.

After all,Logan usually fights at the best of his ability and he has stalemated with both of them plenty of times.

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#34 god_spawn  Moderator

@stronger said:

@god_spawn:

That doesn't mean he could take them both.

After all,Logan usually fights at the best of his ability and he has stalemated with both of them plenty of times.

Logan barely fights to the best of his ability. And he has only faced Cap once to the best of his ability and Cap was on the losing end in a panel when he decided to do so and as I said, that was under Brubaker, someone who established Cap and Bucky as characters for years. Cap couldn't beat him the other two times when Logan barely had any iota of intelligence and another when his healing factor was so shot he couldn't even heal the tendons in his hands to pop his claws and had Cap beat with a pressure point attack before he stopped fighting. Daredevil's fights usually had some kind of context too like Wolverine being under mind control and after going on a non stop tirade or Ennis' biased writing.

The team will get in their licks, but he's taking more than enough of their's before they can tank his.

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laflux

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@stronger said:

@god_spawn:

That doesn't mean he could take them both.

After all, Logan usually fights at the best of his ability and he has stalemated with both of them plenty of times.

It statements like this which make me think that Manifest Destiny should be reprinted every year to show what Logan's capable of. Seriously, Wolverine doesn't uses tactics like pressure points as much as say daredevil. But when he has, he's given Cap a deep vein Thrombosis, he's one-shotted Kid Gladiator (50-100 tonner) who said Spider-Woman Venom Blasts tickled, and caused a mythical giant to crumble to dust with a karate chop.

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#36  Edited By XiiX
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#37  Edited By Stronger

@laflux said:

@stronger said:

@god_spawn:

That doesn't mean he could take them both.

After all, Logan usually fights at the best of his ability and he has stalemated with both of them plenty of times.

It statements like this which make me think that Manifest Destiny should be reprinted every year to show what Logan's capable of. Seriously, Wolverine doesn't uses tactics like pressure points as much as say daredevil. But when he has, he's given Cap a deep vein Thrombosis, he's one-shotted Kid Gladiator (50-100 tonner) who said Spider-Woman Venom Blasts tickled, and caused a mythical giant to crumble to dust with a karate chop.

Logan doesn't usually rely on skill against top tier martial artists.I swear it,I have seen Wolverine struggling to beat Daredevil and Captain America before.

@stronger said:

@god_spawn:

That doesn't mean he could take them both.

After all,Logan usually fights at the best of his ability and he has stalemated with both of them plenty of times.

Logan barely fights to the best of his ability. And he has only faced Cap once to the best of his ability and Cap was on the losing end in a panel when he decided to do so and as I said, that was under Brubaker, someone who established Cap and Bucky as characters for years. Cap couldn't beat him the other two times when Logan barely had any iota of intelligence and another when his healing factor was so shot he couldn't even heal the tendons in his hands to pop his claws and had Cap beat with a pressure point attack before he stopped fighting. Daredevil's fights usually had some kind of context too like Wolverine being under mind control and after going on a non stop tirade or Ennis' biased writing.

The team will get in their licks, but he's taking more than enough of their's before they can tank his.

Can you give me some scans to prove your point please?

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#38  Edited By laflux

@stronger: He doesn't because of his healing, skeleton and enhanced physicals. Master Po has even referenced Logan for being lazy and not relying on his skill. So him choosing not to use Martial arts against top tier martial artists, is just that, a choice. You've swore you've seen Logan struggle against Daredevil and Cap America, however, I also swear that Logan has completely humiliated Shang-Chi in a H2H confrontation (while he was bone-claw), beat Iron Fist in a Sparring match, got the better of Cap in their last fight.

The fact that something happens needs to be balanced against consistent feats, and context. Otherwise we land ourselves in murky water where we start believing that Spider-Man can pose a threat against Savage Hulk because he's beaten him more than once............................... :P

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... Why would you ever give Wolverine morals off. That was Cap's and Daredevils only hope. Wolverine ravages them!

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The team couldn't drown Logan in a puddle or something? lol.

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#41  Edited By capall2

@god_spawn: you are correct..the op never mentioned the blood lust thingy...lol..my mistake on that note...regardless I don't think this is a fight that Logan can win in most cases...Logan and his ma skills have been portrayed to a various degree depending on the writer...there are times when he displays some sick a$$ skills and there are times when he gets pwned by Frank...which is obviously due to plot...all in all I do think that Logan is the better combatant altho it ain't by much...but you also have to take into consideration that this is a 2 on 1...I think you maybe underestimating either Cap or Matt, perhaps even both as there is no way thay Logan can just like that land a fatal blow to either that early or easy as their skill levels are not thay far apart, not to mention Cap's shield and Mat's club...Logan really has only one advantage which is his hf and the damage soak ability...I just don't buy that this alone will supercede other advantages that thw team has which is thw #s...take into consideration Logan isn't just fighting some random #s of ninjas...he infact is taking on 2 characters that can give him a run for his money regardless of the outcome...also Logan being mind controlled is also no excuse since this should not hinder his ability to fight like how he should, since there is no evidence to support this...to be fair I would give Logan maybe 3 out of 10 if that...and if we do not agree, it isn't the end of the world, we can both move on... :)

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#42  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@capall2: I'll address you too. I'm just going to agree to disagree. We've done nothing but repeat ourselves with no changes in opinion, so let's just leave it at that.

@stronger:

Can you give me some scans to prove your point please?

Because Logan is A) hindered in some fashion, or B) just holds back on heroes. There are certain times when Logan does showcase his skill more often than naught and I will address that later. As Laflux pointed out, Master Po in Manifest Destiny said Logan is lazy, and he would rather run through a hailstorm of bullets rather than dodging. Does this mean Logan is incapable of dodging? No, people assume that because of the point B without realizing it. When he completely wrecked Shang-Chi, he used his skill and even Shang mentioned Logan's savagery doesn't breed indiscipline. It isn't Logan's rage that makes him a bad fighter, it's his need to not use his skill, but when he shows it, he shows it. Half of his gallery is already high tier fighters and most of them have super powers or weapons to compete with or put them Wolverine and Wolverine has even killed some of them. Against heroes though, he won't kill them, so he holds back or the times he does try and kill them he is under some mind control or is in a rage from something.

If you want me to post his fights with Cap, fine, it shows just that.

The fights got posted in the wrong order. 1st fight posted is their latest. 2nd is their 2nd. And the last set of scans was their 1st real fight.

So I'll address them in the real order.

1) Wolverine is put under mind control and has the intelligence of a brutish beast. Cap can't keep up with him physically for long.

2nd fight, Wolverine has been on a non stop tirade, he's been killing, hasn't been eating, sleeping etc (not eating sleeping hinders his HF and overall physical well being), just ran through Cap's villain Nuke, and then ends up fighting a 100% Cap to a relatively close fight. Wolverine couldn't even regenerate the tendons as I previously stated and he resorts to skill to take Cap down. Cap eventually gets back up with the M blade and Wolverine ends up fighting getting cut before going berserk. He fights both him, Hellion, and Cyclops all at once before getting broken up by Emma Frost.

3rd fight, AvX 3, Cap punches Wolverine for trying to kill Hope. Wolverine does his usual lunge, Cap blocks, and Wolverine gets punched. Wolverine changes tactics to his martial arts abilities and disarms Steve of the shield without injuring his arm, doing a flesh wound slash along his stomach and kicks him away. Cap is shown reeling along the wall before Pym blind sides Logan, Sharon opens the door, Cap shield bashes him again, and Pym kicks him out of the jet where he lands in Antarctica IIRC but he is also not KO'd at that either.

The only time Cap ever actually KO'd Logan was in Enemy of the State after Logan was killed by the Gorgon and the Hand, resurrected and SHIELD found him in a coma in a ditch with 90% of his body burnt, no hair, and missing an eye. So he was not in good shape at all. SHIELD then brought him to a Medbay and Logan woke up and by the time Steve KO'd Wolverine, Wolverine had already been through a fight with numerous SHIELD agents, Elektra, Fantastic Four, Daredevil (and in the fight he was fighting the mind control as he mentions his thoughts weren't his own, gets taken back and then attacks the X-Men, gets blasted by Cyclops, hit by Kitty and then teleports away to almost immediately get cracked in the back of the neck with the shield by Steve. So 1), it's arguable he was never 100% to begin with based on his condition when found and the degree he had to heal from, and then goes through multiple more fights and Logan even mentions before Cap finds him he was just handed one of the worst beatings ever.

And Logan had another encounter with DD before and DD kicks him and Logan ends up getting him in a full nelson in a brief fight.

He's shown that while hindered he can stalemate Cap when he decides to let up so he could have continued. He can nowadays turn the tide quickly. He's shown that when also 100%, he can get Daredevil in a position of incapacitation. While I agree under morals the team's chances go up in dealing with him, but his showings against both show he can turn the tide quickly and do so in non-lethal matters. Given he doesn't have that hindrance here, he's going to kill them.

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#43 god_spawn  Moderator

@capall2: Being mind controlled does give someone reason to not fight their best, it was suggested and even said in a lot of cases and even mentioned in stories before, so yes, there is evidence it hinders people. Since we are on Logan in particular, it was in a fight with Namor he mentioned if Logan's mind was his own, he would not have wanted to fight Wolverine. Enemy of the State Logan said his thoughts and actions weren't his own choice, so you are indeed wrong on that matter. But since you suggested we agree to disagree and since I guess I did the same when addressing Stronger, then fine, it's settled. We can agree to disagree.

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#44  Edited By capall2
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look one good shot to the head of wolvie and hes out cold that shield cam tale blows from the hulk and the hulk has knocked out wolvie with one punch, so the team wins because you cant beat AMERICA!!!!!

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#46  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

@cfrehse said:

@super_soldierxii: Wolverine is not stronger than cap. He is stronger than daredevil

Wolverine is most definitely stronger than Cap.

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@jsav777 said:

Taking the team here. Cap and Wolverine have both beaten each other before and Daredevil has used nerve strikes effectively on Wolverine before as well.

The two of them teamed up should be able to take down Wolverine, though the bloodlust will make it more difficult. Still pulling for the team though.

Funny how that pick circulates so much. The one just before it shows Wolverine fighting both Spider-Man and Daredevil at once, and taking Spidey out while he was at it. Guess folks love context ... right.

That Garth Ennis book is not taken all too seriously. He's been outspoken in his hatred for Wolverine as a character. And Wolverine was fighting both DD and Spider-Man simultaneously in that book. He took Spidey down with a kick to the groin just before the DD throat chop.

Besides, seeing as how Wolverine's had his throat slit, and torn out since and has kept on fighting ... incap that way doesn't seem likely.

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@super_soldierxii:oh i know the context just saying daredevil won't be useless here and still contribute to the fight. Also hasn't DD held his own against Wolverine in the Enemy of State series while competing with Hand ninjas? I would call PIS on that nerve strike feat if DD didn't show skill enough in other places.

Also, the fact is wolverine can take damage like that and keep fighting but he's been incaped by less in the past. I honestly don't see DD taking down Wolverine but he can slow him down for Cap and I think their combined effort will bring them the win. I just don't see how Wolverine is going to engage one opponent with getting attack by another. Both Cap and DD are more agile and quick the Wolverine so if he attacks one he's going to get hit by the other before doing any real damage. One on one I don't see either of the team being able to avoid Logan's claws for long but with a teammate distracting, they'll be able to avoid, distract and take him down. And i just realized the OP says morals off not bloodlusted so he's probably not even berserker rage, making the teams job a little easier. A couple good head hits for Cap with the shield have proven to bring him down before and with a teammate I think they've got it, though in no way easily.

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@laflux said:

@stronger: He doesn't because of his healing, skeleton and enhanced physicals. Master Po has even referenced Logan for being lazy and not relying on his skill. So him choosing not to use Martial arts against top tier martial artists, is just that, a choice. You've swore you've seen Logan struggle against Daredevil and Cap America, however, I also swear that Logan has completely humiliated Shang-Chi in a H2H confrontation (while he was bone-claw), beat Iron Fist in a Sparring match, got the better of Cap in their last fight.

The fact that something happens needs to be balanced against consistent feats, and context. Otherwise we land ourselves in murky water where we start believing that Spider-Man can pose a threat against Savage Hulk because he's beaten him more than once............................... :P

Even though it's a pretty awesome feat,Shang Chi is not on either Daredevil's or Cap's level.

Also,I agree that Wolverine is arguably more skilled than Iron Fist,but sparring matches are not the same with real battles.I can prove that.

You mean in Avengers vs X-men?Wasn't this fight interrupted by Giant-Man or something?

IMO Spider-man could pose a threat at Hulk.I don't know what yoy believe.

@capall2: I'll address you too. I'm just going to agree to disagree. We've done nothing but repeat ourselves with no changes in opinion, so let's just leave it at that.

@stronger:

Can you give me some scans to prove your point please?

Because Logan is A) hindered in some fashion, or B) just holds back on heroes. There are certain times when Logan does showcase his skill more often than naught and I will address that later. As Laflux pointed out, Master Po in Manifest Destiny said Logan is lazy, and he would rather run through a hailstorm of bullets rather than dodging. Does this mean Logan is incapable of dodging? No, people assume that because of the point B without realizing it. When he completely wrecked Shang-Chi, he used his skill and even Shang mentioned Logan's savagery doesn't breed indiscipline. It isn't Logan's rage that makes him a bad fighter, it's his need to not use his skill, but when he shows it, he shows it. Half of his gallery is already high tier fighters and most of them have super powers or weapons to compete with or put them Wolverine and Wolverine has even killed some of them. Against heroes though, he won't kill them, so he holds back or the times he does try and kill them he is under some mind control or is in a rage from something.

If you want me to post his fights with Cap, fine, it shows just that.

The fights got posted in the wrong order. 1st fight posted is their latest. 2nd is their 2nd. And the last set of scans was their 1st real fight.

So I'll address them in the real order.

1) Wolverine is put under mind control and has the intelligence of a brutish beast. Cap can't keep up with him physically for long.

2nd fight, Wolverine has been on a non stop tirade, he's been killing, hasn't been eating, sleeping etc (not eating sleeping hinders his HF and overall physical well being), just ran through Cap's villain Nuke, and then ends up fighting a 100% Cap to a relatively close fight. Wolverine couldn't even regenerate the tendons as I previously stated and he resorts to skill to take Cap down. Cap eventually gets back up with the M blade and Wolverine ends up fighting getting cut before going berserk. He fights both him, Hellion, and Cyclops all at once before getting broken up by Emma Frost.

3rd fight, AvX 3, Cap punches Wolverine for trying to kill Hope. Wolverine does his usual lunge, Cap blocks, and Wolverine gets punched. Wolverine changes tactics to his martial arts abilities and disarms Steve of the shield without injuring his arm, doing a flesh wound slash along his stomach and kicks him away. Cap is shown reeling along the wall before Pym blind sides Logan, Sharon opens the door, Cap shield bashes him again, and Pym kicks him out of the jet where he lands in Antarctica IIRC but he is also not KO'd at that either.

The only time Cap ever actually KO'd Logan was in Enemy of the State after Logan was killed by the Gorgon and the Hand, resurrected and SHIELD found him in a coma in a ditch with 90% of his body burnt, no hair, and missing an eye. So he was not in good shape at all. SHIELD then brought him to a Medbay and Logan woke up and by the time Steve KO'd Wolverine, Wolverine had already been through a fight with numerous SHIELD agents, Elektra, Fantastic Four, Daredevil (and in the fight he was fighting the mind control as he mentions his thoughts weren't his own, gets taken back and then attacks the X-Men, gets blasted by Cyclops, hit by Kitty and then teleports away to almost immediately get cracked in the back of the neck with the shield by Steve. So 1), it's arguable he was never 100% to begin with based on his condition when found and the degree he had to heal from, and then goes through multiple more fights and Logan even mentions before Cap finds him he was just handed one of the worst beatings ever.

And Logan had another encounter with DD before and DD kicks him and Logan ends up getting him in a full nelson in a brief fight.

He's shown that while hindered he can stalemate Cap when he decides to let up so he could have continued. He can nowadays turn the tide quickly. He's shown that when also 100%, he can get Daredevil in a position of incapacitation. While I agree under morals the team's chances go up in dealing with him, but his showings against both show he can turn the tide quickly and do so in non-lethal matters. Given he doesn't have that hindrance here, he's going to kill them.

Most of the fights you posted are interrupted or something happens via plot.

1.AvX fight. Even though I have to agree Wolverine had the upper hand,Giant Man interrupted the fight and kicked Wolverine out of the jet.It wasn't conclusive.Maybe Wolverine would win,or maybe not.But most likely Wolverine would win.

2.Second fight is interrupted by Cyclops and Cyber,I think.Still Cap wasn't K.Oed,but anyway he lost that fight.

3.Wolverine was mind-contolled and Cap didn't exactly go all out against him.

4.Now about that Daredevil fight,both where holding back as you see.They are trying to figure out things rather than fight each other.It ends with a full nelson,but after that they both stopped.We don't know the actual outcome.

In all those fight you actually proved that Wolverine would beat Captain America and Daredevil in a good fight individually.

I agree.What you didn't prove though is that Wolverine would beat them both.

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