Cap,Hawkeye,Black Panther vs DC's Big 3(depowered)

@matchesmalone21 said:

@Strafe Prower: @Static Shock@jeanroygrant: What Wonder Woman isn't skilled as Cap and Black Panther? The best female fighter of Dc Universe,that came from a island of ancient warrior womens,trained since the childhood in many form of armed and unamerd combat? The same Wonder Woman was trained by I-Ching. The same Wonder Woman,that outclass Black Canary (in h2h)? Seriously?

Many forms of combat? I've never read that anywhere. It appears as if Diana and the rest of the Amazons were trained in one particular form of fighting. Other than that, she's not the best female fighter. Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain are better than she is, and they even have better skills showings than Wonder Woman (who doesn't use her skills often, unless she remembers to). Where she came from and how long she's been training doesn't say a lot for her skill level (or maybe it does, but it doesn't mean she's better than Black Panther or Cap). Being trained by I-Ching doesn't say a lot for her skills, either. Black Canary is arguably better than her, for the same reason Cass and Shiva are. That little sparring match (if you want to count that, since I don't) showcased Canary as Wonder Woman's superior in skill (since Wonder Woman held back her strength). The only thing that Wonder Woman outclasses her in is physical abilities.

@matchesmalone21 said:

Where was the Captain America's physical upper,when he loses against Batroc,Zaran and Cross bones? That aren't skilled as him and physically inferior?

I don't remember Batroc beating Cap (pretty sure it's the other way around, without handicaps). I don't know who Zaran is. Crossbones has never beaten Cap with skill alone, and Captain America was once able to defeat Crossbones without his physical enhancements. A testament to his skills. Captain America was also able to defeat a bunch of super-soldiers without his enhancements, using only his skills. He's demonstrated the use of pressure points has either beaten or stalemated some of Marvel's best fighters. He's also managed to use leverage against powerhouses to keep them at bay. You've mention two of three people that are Cap's direct villains, and the outcome of his battles against them don't change his skill level. T'Challa has trouble with Killmonger more often than not, and yet, still considered one of the best in Marvel.

Superman isn't as skilled as Wonder Woman. Yet, he consistently gives her a difficult time in spite of how little skilled he is. Mongul and Mongul, Jr aren't as skilled as Wonder Woman. Yet, they both manhandled her pretty well. Power Girl was also giving Wonder Woman a hard time in battle until she remembered that she was a better fighter than her. She's never compared to other martial artists in DC because of her physical attributes, so it's difficult to gauge her skill. But, a lot of the powerhouses she fights lack any skill and still proceed to knock her all over the place. Cap and Black Panther fight skilled fighters more often than she does and have better skill showings to back it up.

@Baldy said:

Marvel wins this easily. Wonder Woman, is overrated and about as consistent as Wolverine in the combat skill department.

Pretty much, more or less.

@k4tzm4n: Ok, now I understand why you have me to me answered first, but you know that doing thisyou lose much of the debate and why I give that opinion, in other words is all became out of context. In next time,I will remember to post the comparision,they are less skilled as Captain America

@Static Shock: please read my other post,before comment.. I didn't say that Superman is skilled as Wonder Woman,I just post the scans to Knightrises. About Batroc I already awnser to @k4tzm4n,so read the previous comments

Please don't jump some comments,because you lose the context and don't underetimated an character because it's consistent or inconsistent,thanks.

Tou said this:

Not at all.

At Cap and Black Panther's physical level, she doesn't stand a chance. She's not as skilled as they are.

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

@mcool135: Also false.

@mcool135 said:

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

I doubt Hawkeye is a non factor, I don't think any combatant is a not factor here.

@Army2442 said:

@mcool135 said:

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

I doubt Hawkeye is a non factor, I don't think any combatant is a not factor here.

Batman has caught GreenArrow's arrows with relative ease, I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same outcome for Hawkeye.

@mcool135 said:

@Army2442 said:

@mcool135 said:

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

I doubt Hawkeye is a non factor, I don't think any combatant is a not factor here.

Batman has caught GreenArrow's arrows with relative ease, I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same outcome for Hawkeye.

Because the distance here dictates that hawkeye could fire an arrow when batman doesn't expect it or from an angle he doesn't expect plus hawkeye has explosive arrows as well in his arsenal.

@Army2442: Batman also caught Greenarrow's arrow from behind without expecting it.

@mcool135:Touche, but Cap or Black Panther can keep batman busy while hawkeye takes out Wonder Woman or superman.

@Army2442: Wonder Woman is an Amazonian warrior, she has experience with swords and shields so she still has the upper hand against Hawkeye.

@matchesmalone21: Stop overrating Wonder Woman's fighting's skills.

@jeanroygrant:IThat's my opinion, I say what I want, understand? I'm not overestimating the capabilities of anyone, I gave rational opinions about the ability of one or the other. And who are you to say what I can or can not u do? Before,say nosesnse read previous post,to prevent future discussions, learn to read it all before say something. I'm already debate this with @k4tzm4n,I do not have to follow the opinions of others because they all say that such a character win, that's a debate, not a submission.. Is not because a character has inconsistent h2h showings,that I have to underestimating it or because a character has consistent h2h showings that I have to overestimated.

It's called opinion,if you don't know.. that you didn't use to prove why marvel has t ow in,you only agreed with everything that was said here

@matchesmalone21 said:

@jeanroygrant:IThat's my opinion, I say what I want, understand? I'm not overestimating the capabilities of anyone, I gave rational opinions about the ability of one or the other. And who are you to say what I can or can not u do? Before,say nosesnse read previous post,to prevent future discussions, learn to read it all before say something. I'm already debate this with @k4tzm4n,I do not have to follow the opinions of others because they all say that such a character win, that's a debate, not a submission.. Is not because a character has inconsistent h2h showings,that I have to underestimating it or because a character has consistent h2h showings that I have to overestimated.

It's called opinion,if you don't know.. that you didn't use to prove why marvel has t ow in,you only agreed with everything that was said here

Wow your rude af, this is a damn debating website, don't complain when i say something. I'm done with this debate, it's whatever, good day to you.

I think Marel wins. I don't think it'd be a stomp, but they'll take a solid majority.

I see Supes being the first one to fall, giving a 3V2 advantage towards Marvel.

@matchesmalone21 said:

not the case here, since we still have the Wonder Woman fighting skills and physical peak of an Amazon, which is still above peak human perfection. What most people ignore...

I addressed this earlier in the thread. The OP said that WW is not depowered to an Amazonian who would be above peak human, but depowered to a peak human level. People also seem to be ignoring that Black Panther without the herb was stated to even be above peak level already.

@mcool135 said:

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

You honestly think Hawkeye is less of a factor than Superman here? Hawkeye has enough skill to at least hold his own in the H2H department, but it's not like he will even have to. He has range and explosive arrows too to help him out. Sure he prolly can't take either Batman or WW in a 1 on 1 fight, but he can at least take out Superman or help in taking the other DC heroes out. With his incredible marksmanship, he doesn't even need to get a direct hit, especially with his explosive arrows. The explosions might not take them down, but it'll help slow them down and cause a distraction. That would give Cap and BP the perfect opening to take out whoever they want to on the DC team. I really don't care too if Batman can catch and arrow because it really doesn't mean much. He focuses on catching arrows, it'll be yet another distraction. I'd also love to see him catch an explosive arrow.

Wonderwoman just doesn't have the showings that Cap or BP have to even put her on their level. Physically, she isn't even matching up to these two. Superman is hardly a factor at all. The biggest threat here by far is Batman and he won't be able to win this fight once the numbers start to heavily favor team Marvel.

@Fresh Prince: Nicely put sir!

@Fresh Prince: You saw I'm saying something about Black Panther? nope,so Why you talking about him,to me?

@matchesmalone21 said:

@Fresh Prince: You saw I'm saying something about Black Panther? nope,so Why you talking about him,to me?

Because he's part of the fight and he might just end up fighting WW?

@Strafe Prower: Thanks!

@matchesmalone21 said:

@Static Shock: please read my other post,before comment.. I didn't say that Superman is skilled as Wonder Woman,I just post the scans to Knightrises. About Batroc I already awnser to...

You didn't have to say anything about Superman. Superman is just one of those people that humiliate Wonder Woman in battle even though he lacks fighting skills. Never mind what scans you posted because I didn't look at them. Your response about Batroc means nothing to me. Captain America has defeated Batroc numerous times, save for the time that Batroc had unconventional means (plot device) to beat Cap once. You say it's not an excuse, but I'm with K4tzm4n, either way. It is very much an excuse. The fact that Batroc cannot defeat Cap with skill alone says a lot about Cap's skills in comparison to Batroc's. Even if that one fight mattered, it still doesn't diminish Cap's skills nor does it say a lot for Batroc's skills, either. Whether or not you're willing to understand that is your problem.

@matchesmalone21 said:

Please don't jump some comments,because you lose the context and don't underetimated an character because it's consistent or inconsistent,thanks.

I didn't jump to conclusions (I think that's what you're saying), I took nothing out of context (it looks like you're saying that, too), and I'm underestimating no one. Everything I'm saying is based on facts; character's consistent showings in battle. Wonder Woman isn't that skilled, nor is she as skilled as Captain America or Black Panther.

@matchesmalone21 said:

Tou said this:

Not at all.

At Cap and Black Panther's physical level, she doesn't stand a chance. She's not as skilled as they are.

That's exactly what I said. You have yet to refute it. It stands.

@Static Shock:If that means nothing to you, why bother to answer me and why should I care if you care about on or not? If you read carefully,I just saying to him That Crossbone and Batroc aren't at same Cap's level of skills and physical capablities, I'm not diminish no one I just said that any comic book character already has or can be defeated by character less experienced,verstaile or less skilled . it is hard to understand?

Wolverine is inconsistent in h2h showing,and yet he already defeated Iron Fist...Character bein or not inconsistent,not diminish their capacity

She' doesn't stand no chance is understimating someone,is like saying stomps her... or experience

@matchesmalone21 said:

@Static Shock:If that means nothing to you, why bother to answer me and why should I care if you care about on or not?

It means nothing to me because it doesn't support your argument.

@matchesmalone21 said:

If you read carefully,I just saying to him That Crossbone and Batroc aren't at same Cap's level of skills and physical capablities, I'm not diminish no oneI just said that any comic book character already has or can be defeated by character less experienced,verstaile or less skilled. it is hard to understand?

Okay, and Wonder Woman still loses to Captain America and Black Panther in that regard (and like K4tz said, Crossbones never defeated Cap in H2H combat, and Batroc consistently loses to Cap, still). It's not hard for me to understand because I said the same thing in my last post. You're just repeating it.

The fact that Batroc cannot defeat Cap with skill alone says a lot about Cap's skills in comparison to Batroc's. Even if that one fight mattered, it still doesn't diminish Cap's skills nor does it say a lot for Batroc's skills, either

Even if either of them may have been defeated by someone less skilled, less experienced, or less versatile, they are still more skilled than Wonder Woman is. Thus, she's still very likely to lose.

@matchesmalone21 said:

Wolverine is inconsistent in h2h showing,and yet he already defeated Iron Fist...Character bein or not inconsistent,not diminish their capacity

Right. The same Wolverine that owned Silver Samurai on occasion, Mister X, Shang Chi in their most recent encounter, Captain America on numerous occasions, and loads of others with H2H skills. While Wolverine isn't that consistent in his fighting skills (he's more consistent than Wonder Woman is), he's still very skilled.

@matchesmalone21 said:

She' doesn't stand no chance is understimating someone,is like saying stomps her... or experience

I'm not underestimating her. She's not that skilled in comparison to Cap and Black Panther based one everything I've said. It is what it is. She's never been sized-up against a top-tier fighter in a serious fight, and against unskilled powerhouses, she uses very little or no skill. In the process, she gets knocked around as if her skills don't matter. I can only imagine how she fairs against Cap and Black Panther. It's not going to be pretty.

@Static Shock: I'm not repeating anything, I had said long before you, I do not need to get opinions from others and use as my own,because I said this to K4tzm4n

Since we agree that I still think she has a chance is skilled enough and you're still in agreement that the two are more skilled,and that's all

Marvel takes this pretty easily...Batman is the only one on Team DC that has the skills necessary to compete here and he'll be overwhelmed after his less skilled teammates get taken down. Hawkeye probably snipes out Superman as soon as he sees him.

@matchesmalone21: Aight. She still loses, but whatever.

@Fresh Prince said:

@matchesmalone21 said:

not the case here, since we still have the Wonder Woman fighting skills and physical peak of an Amazon, which is still above peak human perfection. What most people ignore...

I addressed this earlier in the thread. The OP said that WW is not depowered to an Amazonian who would be above peak human, but depowered to a peak human level. People also seem to be ignoring that Black Panther without the herb was stated to even be above peak level already.

@mcool135 said:

DC easily. Hawkeye really isn't a factor in this Batman takes him out easily leaving it 3 v2.

You honestly think Hawkeye is less of a factor than Superman here? Hawkeye has enough skill to at least hold his own in the H2H department, but it's not like he will even have to. He has range and explosive arrows too to help him out. Sure he prolly can't take either Batman or WW in a 1 on 1 fight, but he can at least take out Superman or help in taking the other DC heroes out. With his incredible marksmanship, he doesn't even need to get a direct hit, especially with his explosive arrows. The explosions might not take them down, but it'll help slow them down and cause a distraction. That would give Cap and BP the perfect opening to take out whoever they want to on the DC team. I really don't care too if Batman can catch and arrow because it really doesn't mean much. He focuses on catching arrows, it'll be yet another distraction. I'd also love to see him catch an explosive arrow.

Wonderwoman just doesn't have the showings that Cap or BP have to even put her on their level. Physically, she isn't even matching up to these two. Superman is hardly a factor at all. The biggest threat here by far is Batman and he won't be able to win this fight once the numbers start to heavily favor team Marvel.

I don't know if you saw that scan or not, but it showed that Batman could catch an arrow without it being a distraction. Also how does Hawkeye having explosive arrows change anything? I don't know if you noticed, but Batman also has explosives, so what's stopping him from doing the same and causing distractions and less you forget Batman is smarter then Hawkeye, so I think Batman could create a more effective distraction. Also you're underestimating Diana she is a master combatant, Diana is the finest warrior ever born among the Amazons. She is a master of armed and unarmed combat, proficient with nearly every weapon ever made (especially the bow and the javelin) and the exotic martial arts styles of the Amazons. Batman once remarked that Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world. You're also underestimating Superman's H2H skill, his H2H fighting skill is advanced. He has been trained by both Wildcat (in Boxing) and Mongul in the fighting arts. Superman has fought and learned from Wonder Woman. He has also learned more advanced martial arts techniques from Batman.

My point is they're not severely outclassed as you make it seem they are. DC's biggest concern is Black Panther, but with a team effort it would be more then enough to take him out. I'm not saying either side wins, because it could go either way in this fight.

@mcool135 said:

I don't know if you saw that scan or not, but it showed that Batman could catch an arrow without it being a distraction.

Catching an explosive arrow is bad territory though. How would he know the difference if he's just catching arrows without being mindful of what they can do?

It would be better to argue that he would most likely dodge an arrow. Catching one isn't something he does often.

Captain america >batman

Hawkeye >wonder woman

Black panther >superman

@Static Shock said:

@mcool135 said:

I don't know if you saw that scan or not, but it showed that Batman could catch an arrow without it being a distraction.

Catching an explosive arrow is bad territory though. How would he know the difference if he's just catching arrows without being mindful of what they can do?

It would be better to argue that he would most likely dodge an arrow. Catching one isn't something he does often.

My theory is that Batman can catch those arrows and just throw them away before they even blow up. He could also counter the arrows with his Batarangs.

I do agree it would be smarter for him to dodge those arrows. I disagree he has caught arrows on a few occasions.

@britsera: Um, you do realize WW learned ALL the amazonian fighting techniques BEFORE she became WW right?

@mcool135 said:

My theory is that Batman can catch those arrows and just throw them away before they even blow up. He could also counter the arrows with his Batarangs.

I do agree it would be smarter for him to dodge those arrows. I disagree he has caught arrows on a few occasions.

I never said that he has only caught arrows on a few occasions. I'm saying that he doesn't do it often in comparison to actually dodging projectiles, which is easier than catching or deflecting them.

Im gonna say team marvel.but only barely and because supeman de powerd is way more problematic then wonder woman de powerd

@TerryBogard2014 said:

Im gonna say team marvel.but only barely and because supeman de powerd is way more problematic then wonder woman de powerd

Um. How?

Team Marvel. Looking at DC's team, Batman is evidently the most skilled member among the trio. However, Superman and Wonder Woman will need convincing skill feats to win, both Steve and T'Challa are better fighters than Clark and Diana. It's stated that they have been brought to peak-level, but from what I have seen, Cap should be enhanced human. .

@fanofsuperheroes said:

@britsera: Um, you do realize WW learned ALL the amazonian fighting techniques BEFORE she became WW right?

@Frozen said:

@TerryBogard2014 said:

Im gonna say team marvel.but only barely and because supeman de powerd is way more problematic then wonder woman de powerd

Um. How?

wonder woman still has her Amazon training so she would probably have a better plan tactically on how to approach the situation.unless clark is getting advice from either team mate.I don't see him taking out any member on the other team.unless he can somehow convince hawkeye into a bare knuckle showdown

this is a good fight i say hawkeye beats superman who then loses to batman who then loses to cap who then loses to wonder woman who then loses to panther after a great fight

team marvel wins this

@TerryBogard2014 said:

@Frozen said:

@TerryBogard2014 said:

Im gonna say team marvel.but only barely and because supeman de powerd is way more problematic then wonder woman de powerd

Um. How?

wonder woman still has her Amazon training so she would probably have a better plan tactically on how to approach the situation.unless clark is getting advice from either team mate.I don't see him taking out any member on the other team.unless he can somehow convince hawkeye into a bare knuckle showdown

How I see it working down is, Wonder Woman or Batman takes out Hawkeye leaving Wonder Woman to help Superman fight Captain America, while they're working on Cap, Batman stalls Black Panther, Supes and Diana takes out Cap and then all three of them take down BP.

@TerryBogard2014: Diana is considered highly trained due to her Amazonian upbringing but she also has almost zero-to-no feats when de-powered. Both Diana and Clark are extremely dependant on their powers to aid them in battle and it will be their downfall here especially against Cap and T'Challa.

Personally, I'd edge out the win to Marvel due to combatants with more consistant and impressive feats than the DC sid, excluding Bruce of course.

@TerryBogard2014 said:

@Frozen said:

@TerryBogard2014 said:

Im gonna say team marvel.but only barely and because supeman de powerd is way more problematic then wonder woman de powerd

Um. How?

wonder woman still has her Amazon training so she would probably have a better plan tactically on how to approach the situation.unless clark is getting advice from either team mate.I don't see him taking out any member on the other team.unless he can somehow convince hawkeye into a bare knuckle showdown

You do know that Clark is decent when it comes to H2H? He's had training.

Hawkeye and Captain America can't do squat to Superman and Wonder Woman. I'd say Superman could probably punch through Kevlar.

Team DC, easily.

Locking for mismatch.