#1 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Super Buuhan and Janemba. Can these two Cosmic level warriors honestly give the Silver Surfer some trouble in a battle? The Surfer has a butt load of feats some that makes no sense whatsoever, but still some awesome feats as well. But I watched the Janemba movie and at his weakest Janemba raised his power and Goku honestly said the guy could destroy the whole universe, and it was again explained that his very existance was causing a destruction in the universe. I'm gonna take Goku's word for it the same as people in Marvel/DC saying someone can do this feat with the power they have. Super Buuhan was causing a collaspe of the very fabric of reality wall by wall by using his anger alone, which caused him to be labled a universal threat as well. Even if they would lose could they cause some trouble for the surfer if they attack him at the same time?

#2 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Also looking at janemba's sword it looked as if it were cutting through reality itself, and anything that gets in the way of the swing will be cut no matter what the substance, even Liquid was cut by this weapon. Janemba's Portals seem to be trouble for anyone who isn't anticipating where they may open up which could be anywhere. I also noticed that when he caused himself to go Nuke he caused some of the surrounding orbs he created to expload as well, this makes me onder what if he inclosed a galaxy or an opponent in one and simply caused it to go boom what would happen. To me these are two of the most powerful cosmic level entities in the Z universe with an outright chance to cause some trouble for an unsuspecting Herald of Galactus. Also if Crossover rules apply they should be some serious trouble for him. I just want to know your unbias oppinions.

#3 Edited by buttersdaman000 (9495 posts) - - Show Bio

This isnt allowed...... 
But....IDC. 
Janemba would get roflstomped by Superman, much less Silver Surfer. So thats a big no there. 
However, Super Buuhan, imo, going by the abc logic and power scaling you have to use when talking about Dragon Ball Z, should at least give SS a good fight. 
 
And this is just my opinion.

#4 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank goodness a an Opinion on this! I had it in the discussions area for like a week and it never got a single reply!!! Power wise i honestly felt Janemba was on par with Superbuuhan. I felt their abilities would cause some problems for alot of people on a Cosmic level, so I just had to atleast see what people would think if the two of them actually teamed up and went after a Mid Level Cosmic beast. But I honestly didn't want a battle but a forum of opinion since no one answered in the discussions section.

#5 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba got weak when he stopped being fat and Buuhan still has absolutely no answer to the Surfer's power set. The Surfer has fought more than a few people that can cut reality / space / time.

#6 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9495 posts) - - Show Bio
@Warcry80:  
Actually Janemba would be destroyed by Mystic Gohan or even ssj3 gotenks quite easily
If you recall, right after or before Goku went SSJ3 to fight Fat Janemba he said something like "Majin Buu was the only one I ever had to use this form on". This pretty much confirms that Fusion Reborn took place in an alternate timeline, a timeline where Goku fought Majin Buu and defeated him right then and there.  
So, now look at it this way: 
SSJ3 Goku stomped fat Janemba 
SSJ3 goku was able to at least put up some fight against Super Janemba 
Whereas: 
He didnt even want to confront Super Buu with Vegeta's help ( However, for some reason Goku couldnt have taught Vegeta the fusion dance lol. That surely wouldve been enough to finish off Super Buu) 
 
So, taking all this into account.... 
SSJ1 Gogeta> Super Buu>= Super Janemba
#7 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

#8 Posted by pooty (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

#9 Posted by Killemall (18292 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

I third that :) so very true!

#10 Edited by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point, but one thing I was thinking is that they wanted the movie to follow the timeline, which is why he mentioned Majin Buu only being able to push him to that form. His going SS3 to take down Janemba would make you think 1. Janemba (Fat ) Was as powerful as Majin Buu or 2. Fat Janemba was stronger and using the DBZ timeline Power scaling; Goku at SS3 was more powerful than he was when he faced majin Buu. Also I do rember him saying after feeling Fat Janemba's power it was enough to destroy the whole universe. Maybe it was an english dub error or an expression of what he could possibly do if given the time even in that fat weaker form. Goku at SS3 made me think that he wasn't really strong enough to take on Janemba 2nd form, but used his skill alone to stay in the fight, I mean why else would Vegeta at SS2 even attempt fighting Janemba knowing Goku's SS3 level is far superior to his own power? I think power scaling applies here to this movie. From what i can remember only 3 characters in DB were considered threats to the universe ( I may be wrong) But they were Super Buuhan,Janemba, and Omega Shenron who doesn't count being that he is DBGT.

#11 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@Warcry80: Well, Vegeta is much more willing to attempt fighting characters far above his own power than Goku is most of the time. Ginyu Force; Freeza; Cell; Kid Buu (Buuhan too, if you include the anime). Goku tends to not fight them until he thinks he's already at least as strong as they are (of course, part of this is because he is always held in reserve by acts of plot so he can swoop in to save the day).

SS3 Goku was probably weaker than Janemba, and I don't think anyone is really denying that, but the gap isn't so large that he couldn't harm Janemba at all. Up until Janemba created his sword, Goku actually seemed to be holding his own, more or less. In comparison, the power gap between SS3 Goku and Buuhan is enormous. Really, SS3 Goku would have virtually zero chance of even beating Mystic Gohan alone, let alone combined with Super Buu.

The universe was definitely getting messed up in that movie, but it didn't really seem to be due to any deliberate action of Janemba, and was more a reaction to the "evil-machine" (or whatever it is called) getting broken and spilling out. Sort of like introducing a poison or disease into the spirit of the universe. Smallpox or rabies can kill a human being (and they usually do, if not treated), but this doesn't mean the smallpox virus is physically more powerful than a human being, it just means it can employ a special method of internal corruption to bring us down that renders our infinitely greater physical strength and durability completely irrelevant. That's more or less how I view what was going on with Janemba, with the creature itself being sort of the focal point or embodiment of the infection. That's a pretty metaphysical explanation, but given that we're talking about a being composed of pure concentrated evil and spawned in Hell, I think it is perfectly reasonable.

#12 Posted by emperorznb (1673 posts) - - Show Bio

They could give surfer trouble...

#13 Posted by baron2011 (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

i think they could actually beat him

#14 Posted by HowTerribleIsThat (349 posts) - - Show Bio

lol curbstomp

#15 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent post, and makes a whole lotta sense as well. Very good point! I honestly never looked at it that way!

#16 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Haha this is the most passive battle thread title I've come across.

#17 Edited by buttersdaman000 (9495 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

True  
 
@Warcry80 said:

Good point, but one thing I was thinking is that they wanted the movie to follow the timeline, which is why he mentioned Majin Buu only being able to push him to that form. His going SS3 to take down Janemba would make you think 1. Janemba (Fat ) Was as powerful as Majin Buu or 2. Fat Janemba was stronger and using the DBZ timeline Power scaling; Goku at SS3 was more powerful than he was when he faced majin Buu. Also I do rember him saying after feeling Fat Janemba's power it was enough to destroy the whole universe. Maybe it was an english dub error or an expression of what he could possibly do if given the time even in that fat weaker form. Goku at SS3 made me think that he wasn't really strong enough to take on Janemba 2nd form, but used his skill alone to stay in the fight, I mean why else would Vegeta at SS2 even attempt fighting Janemba knowing Goku's SS3 level is far superior to his own power? I think power scaling applies here to this movie. From what i can remember only 3 characters in DB were considered threats to the universe ( I may be wrong) But they were Super Buuhan,Janemba, and Omega Shenron who doesn't count being that he is DBGT.


Even if it wasnt an alternate timeline what I said still stands. The alternate Timeline approach made sense to me since, iirc, Goku went straight to The Supreme Kai's world after he "died" instead of going to the other world.  
 
@Freefa11 said:

@Warcry80: Well, Vegeta is much more willing to attempt fighting characters far above his own power than Goku is most of the time. Ginyu Force; Freeza; Cell; Kid Buu (Buuhan too, if you include the anime). Goku tends to not fight them until he thinks he's already at least as strong as they are (of course, part of this is because he is always held in reserve by acts of plot so he can swoop in to save the day).

SS3 Goku was probably weaker than Janemba, and I don't think anyone is really denying that, but the gap isn't so large that he couldn't harm Janemba at all. Up until Janemba created his sword, Goku actually seemed to be holding his own, more or less. In comparison, the power gap between SS3 Goku and Buuhan is enormous. Really, SS3 Goku would have virtually zero chance of even beating Mystic Gohan alone, let alone combined with Super Buu.

The universe was definitely getting messed up in that movie, but it didn't really seem to be due to any deliberate action of Janemba, and was more a reaction to the "evil-machine" (or whatever it is called) getting broken and spilling out. Sort of like introducing a poison or disease into the spirit of the universe. Smallpox or rabies can kill a human being (and they usually do, if not treated), but this doesn't mean the smallpox virus is physically more powerful than a human being, it just means it can employ a special method of internal corruption to bring us down that renders our infinitely greater physical strength and durability completely irrelevant. That's more or less how I view what was going on with Janemba, with the creature itself being sort of the focal point or embodiment of the infection. That's a pretty metaphysical explanation, but given that we're talking about a being composed of pure concentrated evil and spawned in Hell, I think it is perfectly reasonable.

Makes sense 
#18 Posted by GhostRider29 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: lol

#19 Posted by nickthedevil (11624 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

really? Like what? it's not that i don't believe you, i mean i really couldnt recall anything for what you said....

#20 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

really? Like what? it's not that i don't believe you, i mean i really couldnt recall anything for what you said....

The only way you can determine who is more powerful than who in DBZ is pretty much abc logic, something that doesn't work with comics.

#21 Posted by Dark Zoom (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer will have trouble with this, but i believe due to surfers lengthy experience with cosmic beings, he will take this fight, not easily though.

#22 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

I third that :) so very true!

fourthed

#23 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

@Killemall said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Dragon Ball Z is really an inconsistent manga. I still love it but it's hard to compare those characters to comic characters.

I third that :) so very true!

fourthed

I actually disagree. In terms of inconsistent "feats," I do not see them being markedly worse than other comics. People complain about them supposedly being moon-busters and planet-busters, but then having most of their energy blasts or punches do relatively little collateral damage. However, when you have someone like Superman survive a supernova, then really, anything capable of even making him flinch should hit like a nuclear bomb, at the least, but this is pretty much never the case. Just about any serious fight between two Superman level characters should cause widespread global destruction, but we see many of them where the destruction ranges from what you might expect in a modern warzone, to maybe only a few million dollars in property damage. If anything, it's even more inconsistent than DBZ, since in DBZ at least they generally take their fights to uninhabited areas so they can tear up the place without worrying about killing everyone.

On the other hand, one thing DBZ tends to have a lot less of, IMO, is the PIS and WIS that comes up so often in comics. What are the comparable instances to things like Spiderman beating Firelord, Juggernaut, Titania, or almost beating Thor? Hulk beating Onslaught? Quicksilver beating Iron Man? Doesn't really happen much. The only thing I can think of is Tien holding down Cell, which was pretty ridiculous, but even there it's only a momentary thing, and he doesn't actually hurt Cell at all (at least in the Manga; the anime makes it look like he's doing much better, which is annoying; but then, the anime had Yamcha take out Recoome). But basically, there just isn't a big problem in the Manga with having Krillin level guys taking down Super Saiyan level characters.

DBZ also has a couple of advantages in this area. The first two are obviously that the entire series' run was pretty short compared to a lot of western titles, and that they were all written by the same guy the whole time, who was also the guy who created all the characters in the first place. Another advantage, IMO, is actually that the villains are never really meant to last beyond a single arc. Most of the villains, both primary and secondary, are killed in battle relatively shortly after they are introduced, so there was never a big need to come up with more and more contrived explanations for how they can get into dozens of fights with the main characters with no one dying on either side.

#24 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

Simple answer: No

#25 Posted by termiteone4ever (6988 posts) - - Show Bio

How come this isnt locked lol

#26 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Because it isn't starting flame wars or bothering anyone.

#27 Posted by Warcry80 (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good point!

#28 Posted by ironman2 (23 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys are stupid,this should be Galactus instead of the surfer cause this ain't fair for surfer I mean a creature that shook the universe when he was born made a goku clone STRONGER than goku so he could make 5 or more clones of surfer or even Galactus and just simply win ,he can surround himself with portals so that surfer would die when he hits him because he would be harming himself or he can just bring all DBS villains from all times in one portal and surfer would still die and buuhan hit vegito so hard the whole earth shook and survived the whole earth exploding and smiled and he can create portals by just screaming so not even Galactus has a chance.