#101 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

Flash could steal his speed.

#102 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2015 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary:Look at the scan I posted pages ago, Flash can resist telepathy by speeding up his thoughts.

there is a limit
bane also resisted MM does that mean he can never be affected, i have seen the flash struggle with grodd,  and several other telepath ok
one panel vs character history=character history by a PIS KO Punch
anyway flash would beat xavier due to his massive speed, but prof x would give wally the time of his life if he gets the first move
#103 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@higher_evolutionary said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary:Look at the scan I posted pages ago, Flash can resist telepathy by speeding up his thoughts.

there is a limit bane also resisted MM does that mean he can never be affected, i have seen the flash struggle with grodd, and several other telepath ok one panel vs character history=character history by a PIS KO Punch anyway flash would beat xavier due to his massive speed, but prof x would give wally the time of his life if he gets the first move

What limit? When did Bane ever resist Martian's telepathy? I can't even comprehend the rest of your post. There is nothing Xavier can do because even though he's a telepath, his mind is no faster than a regular human's. Unless you can prove otherwise.

#104 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

#105 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

I agree but iceman has more range of powers then taking away heat ,flash can't beat iceman is x-man there as well as shaman cause i'm sure he'd wreck flash also .

#106 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2015 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary:Look at the scan I posted pages ago, Flash can resist telepathy by speeding up his thoughts.

there is a limit bane also resisted MM does that mean he can never be affected, i have seen the flash struggle with grodd, and several other telepath ok one panel vs character history=character history by a PIS KO Punch anyway flash would beat xavier due to his massive speed, but prof x would give wally the time of his life if he gets the first move

What limit? When did Bane ever resist Martian's telepathy? I can't even comprehend the rest of your post. There is nothing Xavier can do because even though he's a telepath, his mind is no faster than a regular human's. Unless you can prove otherwise.

all i am saying is flash has a rough history with grodd and other telepath, so suddenly he can resist mm is pis, and bane did resist MM which is also PIs
#107 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@higher_evolutionary said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@higher_evolutionary:Look at the scan I posted pages ago, Flash can resist telepathy by speeding up his thoughts.

there is a limit bane also resisted MM does that mean he can never be affected, i have seen the flash struggle with grodd, and several other telepath ok one panel vs character history=character history by a PIS KO Punch anyway flash would beat xavier due to his massive speed, but prof x would give wally the time of his life if he gets the first move

What limit? When did Bane ever resist Martian's telepathy? I can't even comprehend the rest of your post. There is nothing Xavier can do because even though he's a telepath, his mind is no faster than a regular human's. Unless you can prove otherwise.

all i am saying is flash has a rough history with grodd and other telepath, so suddenly he can resist mm is pis, and bane did resist MM which is also PIs

Again, when did Bane resist his telepathy?

#108 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

he wouldn't be able to displace his consciousness, Iceman can simply bond with the water in Flashes body to reform, it killed the last person that he did that too, and he was in a dimension that apparently had no moisture in the air.
#109 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes, you will have certain telepaths been able to solidify their tp (Psylocke for instance) which would lean more towards the fact that telepaths can gather ambient psi energy and raw psi energy (which is mostly what Rachel, Nate and Chamber use in their blasts) has elements of both telepathy and telekinesis as they are just refined versions.
#110 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

#111 Posted by kcaz (1371 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@kcaz said:

of course, are u underestimating them? flash is very fast,but not too durable. x-men with telepathic abilities like professor X,jean,emma frost,psylock,x-man beats him. iceman can beat him by freezing the ground, magneto wins by changing the gravitational field around him, storm beats him by freezing him or creating a strong hurricane,cannonball beats him because he can absorb powerful punch and he is able to devastate several city blocks by plummeting to the ground from high altitude and can generate forcefield to knock flash out. Aurora beats him because she has flight and superhuman speed and reflexes. Colossus should be able to defend from flash's punches. of course there are other too

I just showed above that Flash can resist telepathy by speeding up his thoughts, so none of those telepaths can beat him. Maybe Nate can but with abilities other than telepathy, and from what I've heard current Nate is no where near as powerful as he use to be.

Magneto, Storm, Iceman and Cannonball would all get blitzed and killed before they could do anything,. Aurora isn't even 1/10000 as fast as Flash is, and Colossus isn't durable enough to survive getting hit.

The only person you named that could potentially win is Nate and that's only at his higher power levels where he can exist as pure psionic energy. The rest of the characters you named would get curbstomped.

cannonball can absorb punch from Gladiatorand redirect the energy, and Gladiator's punch is capable of shattering a planet, i'm sure he can absorb flash's punches. storm can fly, i dont see how flash can touch her,sure flash can create whirlwinds, but storm can create hurricanes and tornados. iceman freezes the field, and with ice all over the ground, flash cant use his speed properly, or cover his body with thorns so that any hit will damage flash. Iceman was able to control all forms of moisture, freeze fluids inside people's bodies, solid liquid or gas. when emma frost possessed him, not even the combined might of the X-Men Gold team was able to stop him. magneto can control gravity around him, he can send iceman flying
#112 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

Or he could just knock him out, unless Iceman has resistance to KO, and if so I'm not sure he can do anything about speed steal.

#113 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcaz:Captain America was able to block Gladiator's punches also, it doesn't mean he can block a planet destroying punch. Flash would either kill or speed steal any of these characters before they can blink, and as far as Storm being able to fly Flash can easily run up a building to get high enough to hit her.

#114 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

he wouldn't be able to displace his consciousness, Iceman can simply bond with the water in Flashes body to reform, it killed the last person that he did that too, and he was in a dimension that apparently had no moisture in the air.

But would Iceman survive reforming in the speedforce with no way to get to normal space? Or what if Flash took Iceman into the speedforce and left him there?

#115 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

Mjolnir is magical, and can absorb and redirect energy, even Bishop can absorb telepathic energy, because it's energy, that's the reason why I stated that shielding of some sort is needed.
#116 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

Mjolnir is magical, and can absorb and redirect energy, even Bishop can absorb telepathic energy, because it's energy, that's the reason why I stated that shielding of some sort is needed.

It didn't absorb or redirect it, he flat out batted the telepathic bolt back.

#117 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

Mjolnir is magical, and can absorb and redirect energy, even Bishop can absorb telepathic energy, because it's energy, that's the reason why I stated that shielding of some sort is needed.

It didn't absorb or redirect it, he flat out batted the telepathic bolt back.

that's redirecting it, it was going at him and he changed it's course back to her.
#118 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

Mjolnir is magical, and can absorb and redirect energy, even Bishop can absorb telepathic energy, because it's energy, that's the reason why I stated that shielding of some sort is needed.

It didn't absorb or redirect it, he flat out batted the telepathic bolt back.

that's redirecting it, it was going at him and he changed it's course back to her.

Uh huh, well there is no dialogue to support it so I'm going to assume that telepathic bolts can be deflected physically. So yeah....

#119 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

he wouldn't be able to displace his consciousness, Iceman can simply bond with the water in Flashes body to reform, it killed the last person that he did that too, and he was in a dimension that apparently had no moisture in the air.

But would Iceman survive reforming in the speedforce with no way to get to normal space? Or what if Flash took Iceman into the speedforce and left him there?

If Flash dumped him into the speed force there would be nothing Iceman could do. Flash has at least 3 ways of beating him.

#120 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Flopsop200 said:

Ice man takes this, Flash can't destroy him. Iceman can come back from being reduced to a puddle or sharttered. Iceman would just have to remove the heat from Flash's body and he's dead. That's all Iceman's power is anyway, removing ambient heat.

It should be possible for Flash to vibrate Iceman so fast that the bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen atoms are broken, turning Iceman from solid ice to air, and then move so fast that they are dispersed in the speed force, making it impossible for Bobby to reform, since his atoms would have been converted to air. His powers rely on there being a trace of water present for him to reform from a liquid or gaseous form; turn the water to air in the right place, divorcing it from the water cycle, and he's neutralized/killed. The Speed Force is a very scary thing if you think of what is possible using it.

he wouldn't be able to displace his consciousness, Iceman can simply bond with the water in Flashes body to reform, it killed the last person that he did that too, and he was in a dimension that apparently had no moisture in the air.

But would Iceman survive reforming in the speedforce with no way to get to normal space? Or what if Flash took Iceman into the speedforce and left him there?

He could just take up residence in the water in Flashes body, he'd go with him any and everywhere, he doesn't have to reform, he can exist as water in three states regardless of the size or amount if it's water he can use it.
#121 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phylos said:

storm duh

That goes without saying.

Classic X-Man, Rachel Grey and Cable Grey at full power.

#122 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

I've never heard of a psi bolt that doesn't have a tangible base. I have seen Thor deflect telepathic bolts before though.

psi bolts can be purely telepathic or telekinetic or a combo of the two, they have to be closer to the tk spectrum to be tangible, which is why astral forms can pass through solid objects and telepathy can work through walls.

So you're saying that a telepathic bolt isn't physical and a telekinetic bolt is?

yes

Thor deflected a telepathic bolt with Mjolnir.

Mjolnir is magical, and can absorb and redirect energy, even Bishop can absorb telepathic energy, because it's energy, that's the reason why I stated that shielding of some sort is needed.

It didn't absorb or redirect it, he flat out batted the telepathic bolt back.

that's redirecting it, it was going at him and he changed it's course back to her.

Uh huh, well there is no dialogue to support it so I'm going to assume that telepathic bolts can be deflected physically. So yeah....

by magic!  what dialogue does there need to be?  Thors hammer is magic and has energy manipulation properties (known fact), Flash does not have either.   So no...
#123 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

#124 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic.  What are you talking about?  It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. 
 
Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people.   Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts.  He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.
#125 Edited by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point. I'd also like to point out that Thor doesn't possess even 1/100000 of the Flashes speed, if he was able to deflect that bolt, then they have no chance of hitting Barry.

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, is also a martia, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder. Velocidad? Sorry I read Generation Hope, you're comparing a guy that can't mimic velocity to a guy that moved so fast that he made Superman and Flash look like statues? Try again.

#126 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan?  it doesn't sound like it.   He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe
#127 Edited by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

#128 Posted by Kurupted13 (235 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe Iceman at full power? He could freeze the blood or iron in his body unless Flash gets to him first which is likely.

#129 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

everybody can see that telepathic bolt it's lighting up the sky because she is Phoenix, normally telepathy is not seen which is why they use to illustrate it as squiggly or dotted lines, as explained when Nate was pulling images from the minds of the Xmen and Scarlet Witch was in awe of how the telepathic energy was almost palpable, because normally you don't see, it is mainly seen so that reader knows something is going on which is why they have recently decided to not show colored energy blasts in any of the Xmen cartoons after the 90s.  Telepathic bolts do not have to cross distance in beam form
#130 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

everybody can see that telepathic bolt it's lighting up the sky because she is Phoenix, normally telepathy is not seen which is why they use to illustrate it as squiggly or dotted lines, as explained when Nate was pulling images from the minds of the Xmen and Scarlet Witch was in awe of how the telepathic energy was almost palpable, because normally you don't see, it is mainly seen so that reader knows something is going on which is why they have recently decided to not show colored energy blasts in any of the Xmen cartoons after the 90s. Telepathic bolts do not have to cross distance in beam form

So that says that a telepathic bolt is assaulting their minds, so what exactly is the difference between a telepathic bolt and mind raping?

#131 Edited by DCHERO15 (59 posts) - - Show Bio

No one can really beat the flash. He'll just run around the earth and infinite mass punch you and blow you into pieces.

All before you can think about hitting him.

#132 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

everybody can see that telepathic bolt it's lighting up the sky because she is Phoenix, normally telepathy is not seen which is why they use to illustrate it as squiggly or dotted lines, as explained when Nate was pulling images from the minds of the Xmen and Scarlet Witch was in awe of how the telepathic energy was almost palpable, because normally you don't see, it is mainly seen so that reader knows something is going on which is why they have recently decided to not show colored energy blasts in any of the Xmen cartoons after the 90s. Telepathic bolts do not have to cross distance in beam form

So that says that a telepathic bolt is assaulting their minds, so what exactly is the difference between a telepathic bolt and mind raping?

it depends on the context for the sake of this thread the term mindrape was being used to illustrate a telepath actively entering anothers mind, this can be resisted, a telepathic bolt is not as intricate and only involes bypassing mental shielding. 
**edited** I meant to say context not techique
#133 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

everybody can see that telepathic bolt it's lighting up the sky because she is Phoenix, normally telepathy is not seen which is why they use to illustrate it as squiggly or dotted lines, as explained when Nate was pulling images from the minds of the Xmen and Scarlet Witch was in awe of how the telepathic energy was almost palpable, because normally you don't see, it is mainly seen so that reader knows something is going on which is why they have recently decided to not show colored energy blasts in any of the Xmen cartoons after the 90s. Telepathic bolts do not have to cross distance in beam form

So that says that a telepathic bolt is assaulting their minds, so what exactly is the difference between a telepathic bolt and mind raping?

it depends on the technique for the sake of this thread the term mindrape was being used to illustrate a telepath actively entering anothers mind, this can be resisted, a telepathic bolt is not as intricate and only involes bypassing mental shielding.

So again, what is the difference between a mind rape and a telepathic bolt assaulting the mind? How is what Emma is doing not the same as a mind rape when she's assaulting their minds? If their different techniques but do the exact same thing, why can't one be resisted while the other can be?

#134 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:So everytime Thor uses his hammer it's magic? Sorry, but no. Thor's hammer is still just that, a hammer. If he swings it and hits something or deflects something then it's still physical in nature.

It doesn't matter anyway since a telepathic bolt would be too slow to hit Flash anyway. So far the only Xmen named in this thread that has a remote chance is X-man, everyone else is just fodder.

Thors hammer is a magical hammer, it's properties are magical, everything about it is even the strength of it is based on magic. What are you talking about? It exists in the physical world so it has physical properties. Not Marvel telepaths, thought moves faster than light in Marvel, telepaths process thoughts faster than normal people. Even if he moves at the faster than light speeds, so do their thoughts. He would be frozen in time to Velocidad anyway, that guys mimics speed by time manipulation like Zoom.

Thor's hammer is still a hammer, it doesn't matter if it has magical properties, it's still a physical object and you claimed earlier that telepathic bolts can't be physically deflected. Case in point

None of the Marvel telepaths here think any faster than a normal person. Martian Manhunter who's a telepath, his race actually has superhuman speed and thought processes faster than the human/mutant telepaths in Marvel. If he was too slow to read Flash's mind, than all of the X-men's telepaths will be completely worthless.

So far the only person named that has a remote chance is Nate, everyone else still remains fodder.

no I said psi bolts can't be dodged unless they have a tangible base, because normally they can't be seen, have you actually seen the scan? it doesn't sound like it. He clearly is not even just batting it back there is an energy signature different from hers...observe

Something doesn't need to be tangible for it to be dodged. Thor is clearly able to see that telepathic bolt as well so I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't be seen.

As far as it being tangible goes, Thor is deflecting it with his own blast. If it was intangible wouldn't it have gone through Thor's blast and hit him? Instead it collides.

Thor was also fast enough to react to it, what's going to happen against a being that's literally thousands of times faster than Thor is?

everybody can see that telepathic bolt it's lighting up the sky because she is Phoenix, normally telepathy is not seen which is why they use to illustrate it as squiggly or dotted lines, as explained when Nate was pulling images from the minds of the Xmen and Scarlet Witch was in awe of how the telepathic energy was almost palpable, because normally you don't see, it is mainly seen so that reader knows something is going on which is why they have recently decided to not show colored energy blasts in any of the Xmen cartoons after the 90s. Telepathic bolts do not have to cross distance in beam form

So that says that a telepathic bolt is assaulting their minds, so what exactly is the difference between a telepathic bolt and mind raping?

it depends on the technique for the sake of this thread the term mindrape was being used to illustrate a telepath actively entering anothers mind, this can be resisted, a telepathic bolt is not as intricate and only involes bypassing mental shielding.

So again, what is the difference between a mind rape and a telepathic bolt assaulting the mind? How is what Emma is doing not the same as a mind rape when she's assaulting their minds? If their different techniques but do the exact same thing, why can't one be resisted while the other can be?

In the case of telepath controlling your mind and taking over you, this form of mindrape can be resisted by your will power or some other function of the brain that allows you to recognize somebody messing with your mind.  A psi blast is simple, your mind is hit with energy it can range from KOing you to killing you, by effecting your brain, you can't fight it unless you have been taught how to with shielding techniques, as illustrated in the scan, most often if you are not a telepath or don't have some kind of shield in place by a telepath or artificially the bolt will take you down.
#135 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans:Mind raping isn't controlling someone's mind, it's assaulting it. Controlling someone's mind would be mind control. I'm asking about the difference between assaulting someone's mind via mind rape and via telepathic force bolt other then how they're deployed.

Also how do you know that Emma's telepathic bolt didn't have to cross a distance to hit them either? It looks to me that she fired it off panel.

#136 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:Mind raping isn't controlling someone's mind, it's assaulting it. Controlling someone's mind would be mind control. I'm asking about the difference between assaulting someone's mind via mind rape and via telepathic force bolt other then how they're deployed.

Also how do you know that Emma's telepathic bolt didn't have to cross a distance to hit them either? It looks to me that she fired it off panel.

mindraping is not an official term, and it is usually associated with forcibly reading a persons mind against their wishes and attempts to block, controlling a mind is also an assault, so there are the differences. 
 
Because I have the issue and it was not shown as a beam attack, they were standing there and then assaulted by her attack.  Even if it was a beam attack they did not know they were under telepathic attack until it actually struck their minds.
#137 Edited by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:Mind raping isn't controlling someone's mind, it's assaulting it. Controlling someone's mind would be mind control. I'm asking about the difference between assaulting someone's mind via mind rape and via telepathic force bolt other then how they're deployed.

Also how do you know that Emma's telepathic bolt didn't have to cross a distance to hit them either? It looks to me that she fired it off panel.

mindraping is not an official term, and it is usually associated with forcibly reading a persons mind against their wishes and attempts to block, controlling a mind is also an assault, so there are the differences. Because I have the issue and it was not shown as a beam attack, they were standing there and then assaulted by her attack. Even if it was a beam attack they did not know they were under telepathic attack until it actually struck their minds.

Call it whatever you like, there is a difference between controlling a mind and assaulting it. If Barry can resist a telepathic assault because he can speed up his thoughts, then what will a telepathic bolt, which also telepathically assaults someone according to the scan you post, do to counteract this?

#138 Posted by yumyumbubblegum (618 posts) - - Show Bio

New Son Gambit or AoA Iceman?

#139 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans:Mind raping isn't controlling someone's mind, it's assaulting it. Controlling someone's mind would be mind control. I'm asking about the difference between assaulting someone's mind via mind rape and via telepathic force bolt other then how they're deployed.

Also how do you know that Emma's telepathic bolt didn't have to cross a distance to hit them either? It looks to me that she fired it off panel.

mindraping is not an official term, and it is usually associated with forcibly reading a persons mind against their wishes and attempts to block, controlling a mind is also an assault, so there are the differences. Because I have the issue and it was not shown as a beam attack, they were standing there and then assaulted by her attack. Even if it was a beam attack they did not know they were under telepathic attack until it actually struck their minds.

Fine, then call it mind assault, it still has a different result then controlling someone's mind. I don't really care if you own the issue or not, from the scan you posted it looks as if they got attacked from behind, no indication of it being either an invisible attack or being an attack that doesn't have to cross a distance. Unless it's in another part of the issue that you didn't scan.

And even so, how does this differ from assaulting someone's mind? That's exactly what's going on in the scan you posted. When someone tried to assault Flash's mind they were unable to because his thoughts were too fast, how would telepathic bolts counteract this?

because telepathic assaults differ.  Was Flash hit with a psi blast and it was ineffective?  His thoughts being too fast would have no bearing on a blast attack, the speed of his thoughts would only be a viable defense against somebody trying to enter his mind (reading or manipulating it), telepaths don't have to enter your mind to blast it.  It's an energy blast the only thing that can stop it is having defenses that are more powerful than the attack, which is why Emma's bolt worked, their shields failed.  The scan I posted shows them being attacked by a teleapthic bolt that was not directed like a beam attack, that is what I mean when I say it doesn't have to cross distance in beam form, a telepath can blast your mind without a ray going from their head to yours being shown, which means the actual energy involved is invisible.  Look at their bodies when they are unconscious she is not behind them, as if it would matter.
#140 Posted by Ms. Omega (4470 posts) - - Show Bio

A Telepath could but thats about it no one else can catch him

#141 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

why are people saying that telepathy won't be effective due to him speeding up his thoughts? For one that is not a problem for Marvel telepaths, Jean was probing a billion thinking computer brains and keeping up with them (with her mutant powers), Quentin Quire has millions of brilliant thoughts a second, so I would imagine he can have even more regular thoughts in that same time, but that is not the case. People still don't seem to understand how telepathy operates, will power and resistance only matter when a telepath is trying to read your mind or control it, Marvel telepaths love psi blasts, it's like an energy blast, but telepathic and just like an energy blast you need a shield to stop it, not will power or resistance.

Is that so? Because I'm pretty sure that several Marvel telepathics were unable to read Deadpool's miind because of his regeneration abilities. There's more to being able to resist telepathy then mental aspects, there are physical aspects to take into consideration also.

How is Deadpool resisting mind reading in any way comparable to a psi blast or the way he does it comparable to the way you say Flash does it? Fact state by Jean Grey when she first encountered Bastion All humans have a natural resistance to mind reading, most aren't aware it just kicks in. As i said before people don't understand the aspects of telepathy, if you don't have psi shields you can't fight a telepatic bolt, it targets the mind, it's a burst of energy it has nothing to do with probing and control, a powerful enough blast can kill you instantly. Why would a telepath try to read his mind as a battle tactic? Unless they feel they need some information they won't even try, surface thoughts are on the surface and mixed with enough emotions that they will know his intent even if they can't get any words or images, telepaths fight on the astral plane and with psi bolts.

Theoretically, I'd guess that you would be able to dodge a psi bolt - or weaken it - if you got farther out of range from the telepath?

Meh. Doesn't really matter, since Flash would defeat any telepath that has a physical body before they could attack him with one.

You should only be able to dodge of psi bolt that has tangible base and can effect matter, telepathic psi bolts have been shown many many times as the telepaths head glowing and the targets head glowing, not beams as that is only used to illustrate that their is an attack happening, by moving out of their range you help them establish a perimeter that why use to effect any mind that enters now. telepaths don't attack with their bodies, they attack with their minds, their physical reactions have nothing to do with this, thought in marvel is faster than light by an unknown margin and since things can happen in the astral plane with no time passing at all on the physical plane it is by a large margin, dreams for instance, you can nod off for a few seconds and have a dream that spans a lifetime, you can't measure it but Marvel has stated that nothing is faster. So his body can operate faster than light, so can their minds.

Except, they would have to make a conscious choice to go to the astral plane or shoot a telepathic bolt. Regardless of how fast or slow time seems to pass once they've started using their minds, the initial decisions prompting the use of their power runs at the speed of thought.

So, in terms of a dream - this would be like flash knocking them out before they can fall asleep, so to speak.

Furthermore, I've seen a scan of Thor blocking a Psi bolt from Phoenix by reacting in a nanosecond or so and using his hammer. That's a definitive time and speed for how fast a psi bolt has been shown to go.

Except that conscious choice also happens at the speed of thought, there is nothing physical that needs to be registers, with psi talents action follows thought, Magik was able to teleport away from Photon traveling at light speed, and state because thought is faster than light, and in her case something has to happen in the physical world after she has the thought, a telapth doesn't, the mind is always on the astral plane, that is why when his astral form as pulled to real world Xavier was shocked, and telepathy is always on, it takes training to control it, but once you are telepathic if you don't actively screen you are in every mind of every person in your range all the time In terms of dreams we are translating the speed of thought into something tangible for the sake of the debate to illustrate that you can dream about an entire lifetime in a few seconds, I don't follow what you are trying to say, the examples illustrates how much faster than light thought must be for this happen. I believe I stated they can be blocked, that is what shielding is about, you said "dodge"

One scan showing one person reacting at the speed of thought faster than the speed of light (and claiming it is faster) doesn't mean thoughts are suddenly faster than light.

Otherwise, all telepaths would have incredibly fast reflexes - if they can process information and think at the level you're claiming. Reflexes on par with the flash. I'm going to guess that telepaths don't generally display reflexes that fast. I know Flash can go faster than lightspeed, but the fact that the Martian Manhunter couldn't keep up with his sped up thoughts implies that his thinking is definitely not lightspeed or faster.

So, we have one character's feat of claiming that the speed of thought is faster than light vs. all the comic instances when a Telepath has not displayed faster than light, or merely insanely fast, thought processes. Therefore, I'm going to attribute that to PIS.

Regardless of whether telepaths minds are always connected to the astral plane; the fact that they don't generally show lightspeed plus reflexes suggests that the part of their mind located in their body - in the physical world - moves at the speed of their neurons and physical thought processes. Unless actually on the astral plane, their focused consciousness appear to be limited by their physical body.

What I was saying was: Dreams are an altered state of mind. While you're awake, you're normal speed. While your'e asleep, your mind may go through "entire lifetimes in a few seconds". Before you enter the state, however, your mind is not working that fast. The same apparently applies to the Astral Plane. As while you say telepaths have battles there where no time has passed in the real world and that it's seperate from time, until they're consciously fighting on that plane of existence, they are moving at the regular physical speed of mandated by the speed of their neurons. For sake of analogy, Flash would be knocking them out before they(go to sleep) have a chance to enter that altered state of mind where time runs differently. And yes, even if their minds reside in the astral plane, it doesn't mean they're always consciously their instead of in the physical world. And even if it did, it doesn't release them from the constraints - in the physical world - of the actual speed of thought.

Last, I mentioned Thor blocking the Psi-Bolt to illustrate that they don't move at faster than light speeds. Maybe they do in the Astral World where time is different, but not in the real world since Thor is fast enough to react to one. I know Thor has a handful of good speed feats, which don't match up to his general/standard speed, but he's nowhere close to the Flash. And if Thor is fast enough to react to one from Phoenix, then they have a roughly defined speed which implies that either Flash could theoretically outrun them or at the very least KO the person before it connects.

#142 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

why are people saying that telepathy won't be effective due to him speeding up his thoughts? For one that is not a problem for Marvel telepaths, Jean was probing a billion thinking computer brains and keeping up with them (with her mutant powers), Quentin Quire has millions of brilliant thoughts a second, so I would imagine he can have even more regular thoughts in that same time, but that is not the case. People still don't seem to understand how telepathy operates, will power and resistance only matter when a telepath is trying to read your mind or control it, Marvel telepaths love psi blasts, it's like an energy blast, but telepathic and just like an energy blast you need a shield to stop it, not will power or resistance.

Is that so? Because I'm pretty sure that several Marvel telepathics were unable to read Deadpool's miind because of his regeneration abilities. There's more to being able to resist telepathy then mental aspects, there are physical aspects to take into consideration also.

How is Deadpool resisting mind reading in any way comparable to a psi blast or the way he does it comparable to the way you say Flash does it? Fact state by Jean Grey when she first encountered Bastion All humans have a natural resistance to mind reading, most aren't aware it just kicks in. As i said before people don't understand the aspects of telepathy, if you don't have psi shields you can't fight a telepatic bolt, it targets the mind, it's a burst of energy it has nothing to do with probing and control, a powerful enough blast can kill you instantly. Why would a telepath try to read his mind as a battle tactic? Unless they feel they need some information they won't even try, surface thoughts are on the surface and mixed with enough emotions that they will know his intent even if they can't get any words or images, telepaths fight on the astral plane and with psi bolts.

Theoretically, I'd guess that you would be able to dodge a psi bolt - or weaken it - if you got farther out of range from the telepath?

Meh. Doesn't really matter, since Flash would defeat any telepath that has a physical body before they could attack him with one.

You should only be able to dodge of psi bolt that has tangible base and can effect matter, telepathic psi bolts have been shown many many times as the telepaths head glowing and the targets head glowing, not beams as that is only used to illustrate that their is an attack happening, by moving out of their range you help them establish a perimeter that why use to effect any mind that enters now. telepaths don't attack with their bodies, they attack with their minds, their physical reactions have nothing to do with this, thought in marvel is faster than light by an unknown margin and since things can happen in the astral plane with no time passing at all on the physical plane it is by a large margin, dreams for instance, you can nod off for a few seconds and have a dream that spans a lifetime, you can't measure it but Marvel has stated that nothing is faster. So his body can operate faster than light, so can their minds.

Except, they would have to make a conscious choice to go to the astral plane or shoot a telepathic bolt. Regardless of how fast or slow time seems to pass once they've started using their minds, the initial decisions prompting the use of their power runs at the speed of thought.

So, in terms of a dream - this would be like flash knocking them out before they can fall asleep, so to speak.

Furthermore, I've seen a scan of Thor blocking a Psi bolt from Phoenix by reacting in a nanosecond or so and using his hammer. That's a definitive time and speed for how fast a psi bolt has been shown to go.

Except that conscious choice also happens at the speed of thought, there is nothing physical that needs to be registers, with psi talents action follows thought, Magik was able to teleport away from Photon traveling at light speed, and state because thought is faster than light, and in her case something has to happen in the physical world after she has the thought, a telapth doesn't, the mind is always on the astral plane, that is why when his astral form as pulled to real world Xavier was shocked, and telepathy is always on, it takes training to control it, but once you are telepathic if you don't actively screen you are in every mind of every person in your range all the time In terms of dreams we are translating the speed of thought into something tangible for the sake of the debate to illustrate that you can dream about an entire lifetime in a few seconds, I don't follow what you are trying to say, the examples illustrates how much faster than light thought must be for this happen. I believe I stated they can be blocked, that is what shielding is about, you said "dodge"

One scan showing one person reacting at the speed of thought faster than the speed of light (and claiming it is faster) doesn't mean thoughts are suddenly faster than light.

Otherwise, all telepaths would have incredibly fast reflexes - if they can process information and think at the level you're claiming. Reflexes on par with the flash. I'm going to guess that telepaths don't generally display reflexes that fast. I know Flash can go faster than lightspeed, but the fact that the Martian Manhunter couldn't keep up with his sped up thoughts implies that his thinking is definitely not lightspeed or faster.

So, we have one character's feat of claiming that the speed of thought is faster than light vs. all the comic instances when a Telepath has not displayed faster than light, or merely insanely fast, thought processes. Therefore, I'm going to attribute that to PIS.

Regardless of whether telepaths minds are always connected to the astral plane; the fact that they don't generally show lightspeed plus reflexes suggests that the part of their mind located in their body - in the physical world - moves at the speed of their neurons and physical thought processes. Unless actually on the astral plane, their focused consciousness appear to be limited by their physical body.

What I was saying was: Dreams are an altered state of mind. While you're awake, you're normal speed. While your'e asleep, your mind may go through "entire lifetimes in a few seconds". Before you enter the state, however, your mind is not working that fast. The same apparently applies to the Astral Plane. As while you say telepaths have battles there where no time has passed in the real world and that it's seperate from time, until they're consciously fighting on that plane of existence, they are moving at the regular physical speed of mandated by the speed of their neurons. For sake of analogy, Flash would be knocking them out before they(go to sleep) have a chance to enter that altered state of mind where time runs differently. And yes, even if their minds reside in the astral plane, it doesn't mean they're always consciously their instead of in the physical world. And even if it did, it doesn't release them from the constraints - in the physical world - of the actual speed of thought.

Last, I mentioned Thor blocking the Psi-Bolt to illustrate that they don't move at faster than light speeds. Maybe they do in the Astral World where time is different, but not in the real world since Thor is fast enough to react to one. I know Thor has a handful of good speed feats, which don't match up to his general/standard speed, but he's nowhere close to the Flash. And if Thor is fast enough to react to one from Phoenix, then they have a roughly defined speed which implies that either Flash could theoretically outrun them or at the very least KO the person before it connects.

one scan of a person being attacked at the speed of light and thinking before that light speedster reaches them does mean that, we are arguing whether Marvel thinks light can travel faster than thought, they don't think that, and use the term at the speed of thought in many instances involving psi talents to imply how fast thought is, and it is usually instant and does not factor in time no matter how minuscule.  Why would they have incredible physical reflexes based on the the speed of their thought?   Thoughts travel at the speed of thought in anybody, your reflexes depend on your body, if I can't move at superspeed it does not matter how fast I think, unless my thoughts don't need my body to react.
#143 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

why are people saying that telepathy won't be effective due to him speeding up his thoughts? For one that is not a problem for Marvel telepaths, Jean was probing a billion thinking computer brains and keeping up with them (with her mutant powers), Quentin Quire has millions of brilliant thoughts a second, so I would imagine he can have even more regular thoughts in that same time, but that is not the case. People still don't seem to understand how telepathy operates, will power and resistance only matter when a telepath is trying to read your mind or control it, Marvel telepaths love psi blasts, it's like an energy blast, but telepathic and just like an energy blast you need a shield to stop it, not will power or resistance.

Is that so? Because I'm pretty sure that several Marvel telepathics were unable to read Deadpool's miind because of his regeneration abilities. There's more to being able to resist telepathy then mental aspects, there are physical aspects to take into consideration also.

How is Deadpool resisting mind reading in any way comparable to a psi blast or the way he does it comparable to the way you say Flash does it? Fact state by Jean Grey when she first encountered Bastion All humans have a natural resistance to mind reading, most aren't aware it just kicks in. As i said before people don't understand the aspects of telepathy, if you don't have psi shields you can't fight a telepatic bolt, it targets the mind, it's a burst of energy it has nothing to do with probing and control, a powerful enough blast can kill you instantly. Why would a telepath try to read his mind as a battle tactic? Unless they feel they need some information they won't even try, surface thoughts are on the surface and mixed with enough emotions that they will know his intent even if they can't get any words or images, telepaths fight on the astral plane and with psi bolts.

Theoretically, I'd guess that you would be able to dodge a psi bolt - or weaken it - if you got farther out of range from the telepath?

Meh. Doesn't really matter, since Flash would defeat any telepath that has a physical body before they could attack him with one.

You should only be able to dodge of psi bolt that has tangible base and can effect matter, telepathic psi bolts have been shown many many times as the telepaths head glowing and the targets head glowing, not beams as that is only used to illustrate that their is an attack happening, by moving out of their range you help them establish a perimeter that why use to effect any mind that enters now. telepaths don't attack with their bodies, they attack with their minds, their physical reactions have nothing to do with this, thought in marvel is faster than light by an unknown margin and since things can happen in the astral plane with no time passing at all on the physical plane it is by a large margin, dreams for instance, you can nod off for a few seconds and have a dream that spans a lifetime, you can't measure it but Marvel has stated that nothing is faster. So his body can operate faster than light, so can their minds.

Except, they would have to make a conscious choice to go to the astral plane or shoot a telepathic bolt. Regardless of how fast or slow time seems to pass once they've started using their minds, the initial decisions prompting the use of their power runs at the speed of thought.

So, in terms of a dream - this would be like flash knocking them out before they can fall asleep, so to speak.

Furthermore, I've seen a scan of Thor blocking a Psi bolt from Phoenix by reacting in a nanosecond or so and using his hammer. That's a definitive time and speed for how fast a psi bolt has been shown to go.

Except that conscious choice also happens at the speed of thought, there is nothing physical that needs to be registers, with psi talents action follows thought, Magik was able to teleport away from Photon traveling at light speed, and state because thought is faster than light, and in her case something has to happen in the physical world after she has the thought, a telapth doesn't, the mind is always on the astral plane, that is why when his astral form as pulled to real world Xavier was shocked, and telepathy is always on, it takes training to control it, but once you are telepathic if you don't actively screen you are in every mind of every person in your range all the time In terms of dreams we are translating the speed of thought into something tangible for the sake of the debate to illustrate that you can dream about an entire lifetime in a few seconds, I don't follow what you are trying to say, the examples illustrates how much faster than light thought must be for this happen. I believe I stated they can be blocked, that is what shielding is about, you said "dodge"

One scan showing one person reacting at the speed of thought faster than the speed of light (and claiming it is faster) doesn't mean thoughts are suddenly faster than light.

Otherwise, all telepaths would have incredibly fast reflexes - if they can process information and think at the level you're claiming. Reflexes on par with the flash. I'm going to guess that telepaths don't generally display reflexes that fast. I know Flash can go faster than lightspeed, but the fact that the Martian Manhunter couldn't keep up with his sped up thoughts implies that his thinking is definitely not lightspeed or faster.

So, we have one character's feat of claiming that the speed of thought is faster than light vs. all the comic instances when a Telepath has not displayed faster than light, or merely insanely fast, thought processes. Therefore, I'm going to attribute that to PIS.

Regardless of whether telepaths minds are always connected to the astral plane; the fact that they don't generally show lightspeed plus reflexes suggests that the part of their mind located in their body - in the physical world - moves at the speed of their neurons and physical thought processes. Unless actually on the astral plane, their focused consciousness appear to be limited by their physical body.

What I was saying was: Dreams are an altered state of mind. While you're awake, you're normal speed. While your'e asleep, your mind may go through "entire lifetimes in a few seconds". Before you enter the state, however, your mind is not working that fast. The same apparently applies to the Astral Plane. As while you say telepaths have battles there where no time has passed in the real world and that it's seperate from time, until they're consciously fighting on that plane of existence, they are moving at the regular physical speed of mandated by the speed of their neurons. For sake of analogy, Flash would be knocking them out before they(go to sleep) have a chance to enter that altered state of mind where time runs differently. And yes, even if their minds reside in the astral plane, it doesn't mean they're always consciously their instead of in the physical world. And even if it did, it doesn't release them from the constraints - in the physical world - of the actual speed of thought.

Last, I mentioned Thor blocking the Psi-Bolt to illustrate that they don't move at faster than light speeds. Maybe they do in the Astral World where time is different, but not in the real world since Thor is fast enough to react to one. I know Thor has a handful of good speed feats, which don't match up to his general/standard speed, but he's nowhere close to the Flash. And if Thor is fast enough to react to one from Phoenix, then they have a roughly defined speed which implies that either Flash could theoretically outrun them or at the very least KO the person before it connects.

one scan of a person being attacked at the speed of light and thinking before that light speedster reaches them does mean that, we are arguing whether Marvel thinks light can travel faster than thought, they don't think that, and use the term at the speed of thought in many instances involving psi talents to imply how fast thought is, and it is usually instant and does not factor in time no matter how minuscule. Why would they have incredible physical reflexes based on the the speed of their thought? Thoughts travel at the speed of thought in anybody, your reflexes depend on your body, if I can't move at superspeed it does not matter how fast I think, unless my thoughts don't need my body to react.

No, because it is inconsistent with the fact telepaths don't generally display faster than light speed thought processes outside of the astral world. You're basing Marvel's thoughts on one feat written by one writer involving one character? I don't believe that one feat speaks for all of Marvel.

My mistake for using the wrong word; I mean mental reactions. Thought processes. We already have a scan where Martain Manhunter's thought process isn't fast enough to keep up with the Flash's sped up thoughts. Do you have scans of a wide variety of telepaths(since you're postulating that all telepaths should basically think faster than lightspeed) reacting and processing information - be it a physical threat or someone telling them something and them thinking about it - insanely quickly to the point of lightspeed? Otherwise, I'm going to have to conclude that their physical thoughts correspond with the physical speed of their brain i.e. neurons firing.

#144 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Jezer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

why are people saying that telepathy won't be effective due to him speeding up his thoughts? For one that is not a problem for Marvel telepaths, Jean was probing a billion thinking computer brains and keeping up with them (with her mutant powers), Quentin Quire has millions of brilliant thoughts a second, so I would imagine he can have even more regular thoughts in that same time, but that is not the case. People still don't seem to understand how telepathy operates, will power and resistance only matter when a telepath is trying to read your mind or control it, Marvel telepaths love psi blasts, it's like an energy blast, but telepathic and just like an energy blast you need a shield to stop it, not will power or resistance.

Is that so? Because I'm pretty sure that several Marvel telepathics were unable to read Deadpool's miind because of his regeneration abilities. There's more to being able to resist telepathy then mental aspects, there are physical aspects to take into consideration also.

How is Deadpool resisting mind reading in any way comparable to a psi blast or the way he does it comparable to the way you say Flash does it? Fact state by Jean Grey when she first encountered Bastion All humans have a natural resistance to mind reading, most aren't aware it just kicks in. As i said before people don't understand the aspects of telepathy, if you don't have psi shields you can't fight a telepatic bolt, it targets the mind, it's a burst of energy it has nothing to do with probing and control, a powerful enough blast can kill you instantly. Why would a telepath try to read his mind as a battle tactic? Unless they feel they need some information they won't even try, surface thoughts are on the surface and mixed with enough emotions that they will know his intent even if they can't get any words or images, telepaths fight on the astral plane and with psi bolts.

Theoretically, I'd guess that you would be able to dodge a psi bolt - or weaken it - if you got farther out of range from the telepath?

Meh. Doesn't really matter, since Flash would defeat any telepath that has a physical body before they could attack him with one.

You should only be able to dodge of psi bolt that has tangible base and can effect matter, telepathic psi bolts have been shown many many times as the telepaths head glowing and the targets head glowing, not beams as that is only used to illustrate that their is an attack happening, by moving out of their range you help them establish a perimeter that why use to effect any mind that enters now. telepaths don't attack with their bodies, they attack with their minds, their physical reactions have nothing to do with this, thought in marvel is faster than light by an unknown margin and since things can happen in the astral plane with no time passing at all on the physical plane it is by a large margin, dreams for instance, you can nod off for a few seconds and have a dream that spans a lifetime, you can't measure it but Marvel has stated that nothing is faster. So his body can operate faster than light, so can their minds.

Except, they would have to make a conscious choice to go to the astral plane or shoot a telepathic bolt. Regardless of how fast or slow time seems to pass once they've started using their minds, the initial decisions prompting the use of their power runs at the speed of thought.

So, in terms of a dream - this would be like flash knocking them out before they can fall asleep, so to speak.

Furthermore, I've seen a scan of Thor blocking a Psi bolt from Phoenix by reacting in a nanosecond or so and using his hammer. That's a definitive time and speed for how fast a psi bolt has been shown to go.

Except that conscious choice also happens at the speed of thought, there is nothing physical that needs to be registers, with psi talents action follows thought, Magik was able to teleport away from Photon traveling at light speed, and state because thought is faster than light, and in her case something has to happen in the physical world after she has the thought, a telapth doesn't, the mind is always on the astral plane, that is why when his astral form as pulled to real world Xavier was shocked, and telepathy is always on, it takes training to control it, but once you are telepathic if you don't actively screen you are in every mind of every person in your range all the time In terms of dreams we are translating the speed of thought into something tangible for the sake of the debate to illustrate that you can dream about an entire lifetime in a few seconds, I don't follow what you are trying to say, the examples illustrates how much faster than light thought must be for this happen. I believe I stated they can be blocked, that is what shielding is about, you said "dodge"

One scan showing one person reacting at the speed of thought faster than the speed of light (and claiming it is faster) doesn't mean thoughts are suddenly faster than light.

Otherwise, all telepaths would have incredibly fast reflexes - if they can process information and think at the level you're claiming. Reflexes on par with the flash. I'm going to guess that telepaths don't generally display reflexes that fast. I know Flash can go faster than lightspeed, but the fact that the Martian Manhunter couldn't keep up with his sped up thoughts implies that his thinking is definitely not lightspeed or faster.

So, we have one character's feat of claiming that the speed of thought is faster than light vs. all the comic instances when a Telepath has not displayed faster than light, or merely insanely fast, thought processes. Therefore, I'm going to attribute that to PIS.

Regardless of whether telepaths minds are always connected to the astral plane; the fact that they don't generally show lightspeed plus reflexes suggests that the part of their mind located in their body - in the physical world - moves at the speed of their neurons and physical thought processes. Unless actually on the astral plane, their focused consciousness appear to be limited by their physical body.

What I was saying was: Dreams are an altered state of mind. While you're awake, you're normal speed. While your'e asleep, your mind may go through "entire lifetimes in a few seconds". Before you enter the state, however, your mind is not working that fast. The same apparently applies to the Astral Plane. As while you say telepaths have battles there where no time has passed in the real world and that it's seperate from time, until they're consciously fighting on that plane of existence, they are moving at the regular physical speed of mandated by the speed of their neurons. For sake of analogy, Flash would be knocking them out before they(go to sleep) have a chance to enter that altered state of mind where time runs differently. And yes, even if their minds reside in the astral plane, it doesn't mean they're always consciously their instead of in the physical world. And even if it did, it doesn't release them from the constraints - in the physical world - of the actual speed of thought.

Last, I mentioned Thor blocking the Psi-Bolt to illustrate that they don't move at faster than light speeds. Maybe they do in the Astral World where time is different, but not in the real world since Thor is fast enough to react to one. I know Thor has a handful of good speed feats, which don't match up to his general/standard speed, but he's nowhere close to the Flash. And if Thor is fast enough to react to one from Phoenix, then they have a roughly defined speed which implies that either Flash could theoretically outrun them or at the very least KO the person before it connects.

one scan of a person being attacked at the speed of light and thinking before that light speedster reaches them does mean that, we are arguing whether Marvel thinks light can travel faster than thought, they don't think that, and use the term at the speed of thought in many instances involving psi talents to imply how fast thought is, and it is usually instant and does not factor in time no matter how minuscule. Why would they have incredible physical reflexes based on the the speed of their thought? Thoughts travel at the speed of thought in anybody, your reflexes depend on your body, if I can't move at superspeed it does not matter how fast I think, unless my thoughts don't need my body to react.

No, because it is inconsistent with the fact telepaths don't generally display faster than light speed thought processes outside of the astral world. You're basing Marvel's thoughts on one feat written by one writer involving one character? I don't believe that one feat speaks for all of Marvel.

My mistake for using the wrong word; I mean mental reactions. Thought processes. We already have a scan where Martain Manhunter's thought process isn't fast enough to keep up with the Flash's sped up thoughts. Do you have scans of a wide variety of telepaths(since you're postulating that all telepaths should basically think faster than lightspeed) reacting and processing information - be it a physical threat or someone telling them something and them thinking about it - insanely quickly to the point of lightspeed? Otherwise, I'm going to have to conclude that their physical thoughts correspond with the physical speed of their brain i.e. neurons firing.

thoughts move at the speed of thought, the speed of light can be measured anything faster does not exist as far as measurment.  Jean has a conversation with Beast on the astral plane while he is fighting, when the conversation is over, no time went by as far as his fight in the real world, and he came back from the astral plane with increased attributes because Jean brought him to the astral plane to tell him she could grant him that and did all in that moment.  Anytime Xavier or any other telepath accesses a mind they in that exact instant know everything that happened to that person.  Quentin Quire is a telepath and has billions of brilliant thoughts a second, and these are brilliant thoughts, Jean scans a room with hundreds of peoples looking for one person, based on one hidden thought and she finds that person after scanning the entire crowd instantly.  Psylocke and Angel are in his apartment, an explosion tiggers, there is a flash (light) they beat the flash as her tk sends them flying miles away before the flash actually revels it's an explosion, why?  the panel say action follows thought in the case of telekinesis and that is a psi talent, if the psi talent knows there is gonna be a fight it's not difficult for them to have things happen as soon as they think, they will know they are fighting Flash, this is a battle not a sneak attack..  The speed of neurons are responses to the brain, registering a thought that was already made, telepaths can function without a brain or body, how do you measure their thoughts?   When they are astral projecting the brain activity is slowed to a crawl, some people will even think they are dead or in a coma.  Xavier had most his brain destroyed and most thought he was dead, with little brain activity he was still able to think and be a telepath.  Emma was broken into a million pieces, her brain and body dead, as they weren't in a fully organic state anyway, so how was she thinking with out neurons and such?  how fast was her thought?  She still had a consciousness which was independent of her brain, most likely because she is a telepath and that consciousness was still there, same with Shadow King.
#145 Posted by chriconz123 (582 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody who isn't fast enough to react to Flash, isn't durable to tank Flash's hits, and anyone who can be beat by physical force would wind up dead. Anyone who could would most likely end up being a stalemate, Juggernaught for example. Flash can't do anything to hurt Juggs thanks to his invulnerability, and Juggs could never react and keep up with Flash's speed. Although I'd say Shaman Nate Grey could possibly take him.

#146 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5618 posts) - - Show Bio

I know he isn't an X-man but if he were..Northstar may have had a shot..dude could hit light speed..but due to the lack of protection from such speed like the Dc speedster's possess, He can't reach it without sustaining serious injury or dying.

#147 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dex_Starr: But He also battled Dr Light as we'll..and won. Besides wasn't Cable something akin to a God at this time? Surfer is faster then then any Flash no?

#148 Posted by termiteone4ever (7374 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Hooded Hero said:

@termiteone4ever said:

@daak1212 said:

@The Hooded Hero said:

Yes, I think that Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Colossus and Quicksilver.

Would own flash

No.

That no is correct

@Phylos said:

storm duh

NO

@Azrael66 said:

I think Juggernaut (he was part of the team at one point) might stand a chance. There are definitely not many X-Men that could take Flash, that's for sure.

Give me reasons why these people can not beat Flash. Except Juggernaut you have not commented on him yet.

Juggernaut would wreck flash.

There are many reasons. The biggest and obvious one is speed.Good thing moral applies. Easily vibrate on any level and rip there heart or brain out before they can act. I am not sure why you guys think Juggy is invincible. Its so easy defeat Juggy this feel no pain bull is nothing. Juggy cannot hit the flash even if he was just standing there. There are plenty of powers and abilities Juggy hasn't been exposed too and Flash is one of them . Too much possibilites for the flash and less for Juggy . I can even use speed steel i cant even use intangibility and just rip him from the inside these just make things easier . With the speed force anything is possible . If you want death just got back in time easily and kill him before the gem not like this is hard task for any of the Top flashes

#149 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever: Flash can destroy his body but this will happen & juggernaut will be fine to continue battling him as Juggernaut is Immortal something flash is not nor will flash have any counter to juggernauts shield or magic if he uses it right .

#150 Posted by Saren (25681 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

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