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#1 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Cain, fully powered from I, Vampire and Enchantress from Justice League Dark vs Helspont (DCnU) and Darkseid (DCnU).

Fight takes place in Boston.

#2 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

Bro... you are seriously setting up a massive curbstomp. Darkseid and Helspont take this without breaking a sweat! Hell, the upper limits of Darkseid and Helspont's powers haven't even been shown yet and already they're leaps and bounts above everyone else just about. If this was a Marvel thread, you basically just pit Dracula and well... the Enchantress... againstThanos x2. Don't get me wrong, Cain is boss and all, but nowhere near Helspont or Darkseid, and Enchantress has a few magic users above her, so she's not even close to being relevant here.

#3 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

Bro... you are seriously setting up a massive curbstomp. Darkseid and Helspont take this without breaking a sweat! Hell, the upper limits of Darkseid and Helspont's powers haven't even been shown yet and already they're leaps and bounts above everyone else just about. If this was a Marvel thread, you basically just pit Dracula and well... the Enchantress... againstThanos x2. Don't get me wrong, Cain is boss and all, but nowhere near Helspont or Darkseid, and Enchantress has a few magic users above her, so she's not even close to being relevant here.

It's not a curbstomp. Hell, Cain is MUCH more powerful than Dracula. He's basically the very first vampire, who can suck magical energy like a sponge and scared the crap out of the Justice League Dark. The only reason they won was because of Andrew, who in the end, couldn't kill Cain.

Enchantress also owned the JL AND the Justice League Dark. Constantine had to think outside the box to defeat her. Hardly a stomp.

#4 Edited by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: I wasn't saying Dracula was equal to Cain. I was saying comparing Cain to Darkseid is like comparing Dracula to Thanos. It's an analogy. The power spread is about the same. Now, if you had used Andew Bennett, maybe this would be a bit more of a challenge, but not as is. Also, if Constantine can beat you, even through round about methods, you're not a top contender in the magic circles in DC. Top three used to be Constantine, Zatanna, and Dr. Fate, with a conditional fourth being schitzoid-Trigonic Raven. Zatanna has been severly nerfed in New 52 and Constantine is basically around where he was prior to New 52, while Dr. Fate and Raven haven't been introduced yet. If you're gonna use someone with magical powers to go against these two, currently John Constantine is the one to do it, not because he can go toe-to-toe with them, but because Trigon may very well owe him a favor or seventy-three and he may could call it in. Enchantress? Haha... No.

#5 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@Needlebay: I wasn't saying Dracula was equal to Cain. I was saying comparing Cain to Darkseid is like comparing Dracula to Thanos. It's an analogy. The power spread is about the same. Now, if you had used Andew Bennett, maybe this would be a bit more of a challenge, but not as is. Also, if Constantine can beat you, even through round about methods, you're not a top contender in the magic circles in DC. Top three used to be Constantine, Zatanna, and Dr. Fate, with a conditional fourth being schitzoid-Trigonic Raven. Zatanna has been severly nerfed in New 52 and Constantine is basically around where he was prior to New 52, while Dr. Fate and Raven haven't been introduced yet. If you're gonna use someone with magical powers to go against these two, currently John Constantine is the one to do it, not because he can go toe-to-toe with them, but because Trigon may very well owe him a favor or seventy-three and he may could call it in. Enchantress? Haha... No.

The magic duo has better feats than DS or Helspont, IMO. How on earth would Helspont stop Enchantress? Energy beams? lol.

#6 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

Spite against Cain and Enchantress ....

Darkseid or Helspont solo

#7 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Spite against Cain and Enchantress ....

Darkseid or Helspont solo

Please tell me how? An insane Enchatress went up against JLD. Same with Cain. Both team busters. Show me some feats that Darkseid did (DCnU) that puts him above them.

#8 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Spite against Cain and Enchantress ....

Darkseid or Helspont solo

What he said... What beeter feats do they have? Helspont, who has equal-or-better showings than Darkseid at this point, is not going down to a little magic. And Darkseid flat out laughs at magic. You clearly over-estimate what Enchantress can do and underestimate the severity of Darkseid and Helspont.

#9 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said, what feats do you have that makes you think Darkseid would laugh at magic? He didn't do anything of the sort. DCnU characters are generally weaker, so struggling with the JL isn't that big of a deal.

#10 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

Like I said, what feats do you have that makes you think Darkseid would laugh at magic? He didn't do anything of the sort. DCnU characters are generally weaker, so struggling with the JL isn't that big of a deal.

The fact that he's a New God and therfore an inherently supernatural being of immense power. Natural laws already don't effect him the same way they would others and therefore magic also won't effect him the same way. Now, you yourself are the one citing your people have better feats. It's not my job to come up with feats that can trump your characters' supposed feats, but it is your job to back up your claims that the magic users have better feats with actual facts.I already have done my part. Ball is in your court, please do something with it other than "no u".

EDIT: Also, the JL didn't "beat" Darkseid, they hacked his boomtube network and sent him back home. Had the fight continued much longer, Darkseid would have SLAUGHTERED the JL. Wonder Woman and Aquaman stabbing Darkseid in the face only annoyed him slightly. There was nothing the JL could do to truly harm the guy. Darkseid struggled with the JL? HA! More like Darkseid toyed with them, started getting bored, and was sent home before he could really cut loose. And Helspont? He's been shown to be every bit as tough, if not more so. The real debate to have is Darkseid vs. Helspont at this point, not Darkseid and Helspont together against anyone else. It's a majority curbstomp otherwise.

#12 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Come to think of it, Enchantress did better against the JL than Darkseid. She took on two teams, instead of one.

#13 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrimeDirective said:

@Needlebay said:

Like I said, what feats do you have that makes you think Darkseid would laugh at magic? He didn't do anything of the sort. DCnU characters are generally weaker, so struggling with the JL isn't that big of a deal.

The fact that he's a New God and therfore an inherently supernatural being of immense power. Natural laws already don't effect him the same way they would others and therefore magic also won't effect him the same way. Now, you yourself are the one citing your people have better feats. It's not my job to come up with feats that can trump your characters' supposed feats, but it is your job to back up your claims that the magic users have better feats with actual facts.I already have done my part. Ball is in your court, please do something with it other than "no u".

EDIT: Also, the JL didn't "beat" Darkseid, they hacked his boomtube network and sent him back home.

Those aren't feats. That's just a description of DS. Cain sounds more powerful than say, Helspont. Cain existed way before Helspont. He was there before magic, before light, before life. He's a primordial being.

#14 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: Then by that token and logic, those aren't feats for Cain either. And how Helspont sounds to you is irrelevant. He's been shown capable of manhandling Superman and has yet to be harmed by anything yet. He doesn't have to touch someone to mop the floor with them, and just one of thos energy blasts you mocked laid out Superman. No... They mop the floor with minimal effort

#15 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF? You can say the same with Enchantress. She just didn't mop the floor with Superman, she mopped the floor with Superman, Wonder Woman, and Cyborg. Plus JL Dark. So, nope.

#16 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid solo's

#17 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

#18 Edited by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: What part of Helspont wouldn't ever have to touch her did you miss? His telekinesis alone is enought to restrain Superman and he claims to have subdued entire civilizations with his TK. Not only that, he's got telepathy enough to seriously muck with her head. He could make Enchantress think that Cain is her enemy and watch em duke it out. Not only that, Helspont's power source is mystical in nature as well. He's not exactly afraid of magic-weilders. He controls an army of them, as well as metas. I guess I just don't know what you think she is going to do to hurt either Helspont or Darkseid. You still haven't given an example of what she could do to either one yet.

#19 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Cain would suck Helspont dry of his mystical powers. Not a good matchup, actually. Enchantress has mind powers of her own, so that won't help.

#20 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: I need specifics bud. I've given some specific feats that Darkseid and Helspont have shown. Stop talking in "what if" and start telling me specific things that they have done that make you think they could do those things to Helspont and Darkseid.

#21 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

I already have. Quite frankly we are going in circles. So agree to disagree. I need to see more of Darkseid, so it's kind of a premature thread.

#22 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: Enchantress mopping the floor with JL is not a satisfying feat. For all we know, Darkseid could have taken the JL and the JLD together too and won. The JL didn't beat him, they bfr'd him through plot device. As I said earlier, if he had been allowed to stay much longer, Darkseid would have killed them all. I need specific acts, not descriptions of powers or "they could do this or that." I need to know specific examples of things they did, who they did it to, and where. You've yet to provide that.

#23 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, agree to disagree.

#24 Posted by PrimeDirective (451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: Again, no feats. Unless you can provide them, the victor is clearly Darkseid and Helspont.

#25 Posted by Needlebay (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

I have yet to see something DS has done to take them down.