Cable VS Phoenix (Rachel Summers) VS X-Man

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Shawnbaby

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#51  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

I'd like to hear how you justify such a position when Kaine routinely does things that Peter Parker would never do.

He's a clone. /justification

So if you had an identical twin...you'd both be the same person?

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#52  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Shawnbaby said:

So if you had an identical twin...you'd both be the same person?

Before I continue to answer this question, I want to ask...what's the fascination with my comment about Cable & X-Man being the same person? This thread is pretty old so I don't even remember why I said it but i'm sure I wasn't basing an argument around it.
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#53  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

So if you had an identical twin...you'd both be the same person?

Before I continue to answer this question, I want to ask...what's the fascination with my comment about Cable & X-Man being the same person? This thread is pretty old so I don't even remember why I said it but i'm sure I wasn't basing an argument around it.

Yeah...at first I didn't see how old the thread was. Your argument caught my attention because I thought it was a very simplistic way to view two very different characters and every time someone tried to point out the differences between them...you continued to argue that they are "the same person".

Aside from having the "same" genetic foreberarers...they are quite different individuals. Even if Cable had never been infected with the TO virus and was allowed to develop his powers to their full potential...he and X-Man would still be very different due to the different lives they have lead. They are not the same Person...they have never been the same Person. A person is more than just their DNA (which, considering the very different circumstances of their "births", should be different anyway. Cable was the result of a "natural" birth...X-Man was constructed by Sinister using the DNA acquired from Scott and Jean and then even further altered to be made into the perfect weapon to use against Apocalypse). A person is also the sum of their experiences.

Perhaps if we look at the actual definition of Person things will be made more clear.

per·son (pûrsn)

n.1. A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson. -Well... they are both living humans...so by that defintion they would both be considered a separate Person

2. An individual of specified character: a person of importance. -Individual would be the active word here.

3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self. - I think I just said something rather like this.

4. The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person. -Well...they both have their own body.

5. Physique and general appearance.- Very different. It could be argued that as a younger man Cable looked considerably like X-Man...but well...they do come from the same genetic stock...resemblance is not unusual for "Brothers".

6.Law A human or organization with legal rights and duties. - In the eyes of the Law, X-Man would not be responsible for any crimes perpetrated by Cable and vice versa.

7.Christianity Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them. - At this point none of the rest of these really apply to the situation at hand.

8.Grammara. Any of three groups of pronoun forms with corresponding verb inflections that distinguish the speaker (first person), the individual addressed (second person), and the individual or thing spoken of (third person).

b. Any of the different forms or inflections expressing these distinctions.

9. A character or role, as in a play; a guise: "Well, in her person, I say I will not have you"(Shakespeare).

As for my supposed "Fascination"...originally, all I wanted to do was point out that they are different characters...Yet you continued to press that they are the same.

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vance_astro

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#54  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Shawnbaby said:

Yeah...at first I didn't see how old the thread was. Your argument caught my attention because I thought it was a very simplistic way to view two very different characters and every time someone tried to point out the differences between them...you continued to argue that they are "the same person".

Aside from having the "same" genetic foreberarers...they are quite different individuals. Even if Cable had never been infected with the TO virus and was allowed to develop his powers to their full potential...he and X-Man would still be very different due to the different lives they have lead. They are not the same Person...they have never been the same Person. A person is more than just their DNA (which, considering the very different circumstances of their "births", should be different anyway. Cable was the result of a "natural" birth...X-Man was constructed by Sinister using the DNA acquired from Scott and Jean and then even further altered to be made into the perfect weapon to use against Apocalypse). A person is also the sum of their experiences.

Perhaps if we look at the actual definition of Person things will be made more clear.

per·son (pûrsn)

n.1. A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson. -Well... they are both living humans...so by that defintion they would both be considered a separate Person

2. An individual of specified character: a person of importance. -Individual would be the active word here.

3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self. - I think I just said something rather like this.

4. The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person. -Well...they both have their own body.

5. Physique and general appearance.- Very different. It could be argued that as a younger man Cable looked considerably like X-Man...but well...they do come from the same genetic stock...resemblance is not unusual for "Brothers".

6.Law A human or organization with legal rights and duties. - In the eyes of the Law, X-Man would not be responsible for any crimes perpetrated by Cable and vice versa.

7.Christianity Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them. - At this point none of the rest of these really apply to the situation at hand.

8.Grammara. Any of three groups of pronoun forms with corresponding verb inflections that distinguish the speaker (first person), the individual addressed (second person), and the individual or thing spoken of (third person).

b. Any of the different forms or inflections expressing these distinctions.

9. A character or role, as in a play; a guise: "Well, in her person, I say I will not have you"(Shakespeare).

As for my supposed "Fascination"...originally, all I wanted to do was point out that they are different characters...Yet you continued to press that they are the same.

Human Cloning and Dimensions isn't a real world concept so applying a dictionary definition doesn't work. In fiction the way Dimensions work is that there is a version of YOU in every universe. Your personality,your style,etc. may be different but it's still YOU. Personality & Actions don't change genetics.
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#55  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Vance Astro said:

Human Cloning and Dimensions isn't a real world concept so applying a dictionary definition doesn't work. In fiction the way Dimensions work is that there is a version of YOU in every universe. Your personality,your style,etc. may be different but it's still YOU. Personality & Actions don't change genetics.

The very simple fact that Cable and X-Man can walk up to each other and shake hands proves that they are different People. They are two completely separate individuals...they are not the same person. Once again, A person is more than their Genetic Makeup.

Another version of me is just that...another version...That Person is not me. His very life experiences will have shaped him into a different Person. There could be another version of me out there that is The Goddamn Batman...but that doesn't make me The Goddamn Batman. There might even be a version of me out there somewhere that agrees with you on this.. I'm not him either.

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#56  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@Shawnbaby said:

@Vance Astro said:

Human Cloning and Dimensions isn't a real world concept so applying a dictionary definition doesn't work. In fiction the way Dimensions work is that there is a version of YOU in every universe. Your personality,your style,etc. may be different but it's still YOU. Personality & Actions don't change genetics.

The very simple fact that Cable and X-Man can walk up to each other and shake hands proves that they are different People. They are two completely separate individuals...they are not the same person. Once again, A person is more than their Genetic Makeup.

Another version of me is just that...another version...That Person is not me. His very life experiences will have shaped him into a different Person. There could be another version of me out there that is The Goddamn Batman...but that doesn't make me The Goddamn Batman. There might even be a version of me out there somewhere that agrees with you on this.. I'm not him either.

-_-