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#1 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio

Which of the Summers/Grey children wins?

#2 Posted by King Saturn (222808 posts) - - Show Bio
Phoenix versus X-Man at full power would be an interesting fight
#3 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Man, assuming Rachel is at her current power levels as "Phoenix". 

#4 Posted by IcePrince_X (4633 posts) - - Show Bio

rachel summers for me.

#5 Posted by spekqj (566 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel Summers would win this fight. X-man at full power is as strong as Dark Phoenix(jean grey). However, Rachel as phoenix is more powerful than Dark Phoenix(jean grey). And I think Rachel can handle her power more than X-man.

#6 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

 Rachel as Phoenix got spanked by Emma in a telepathic duel (more than once). X-Man would destroy her psionically. He ripped Xavier out of the astral plane when Xavier tried to probe his mind.

#7 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta go with Nate (X-Man) sure his own powers killed him but he was stronger then Onslaught towards the end, Cable can never reach his full potential as of now, since he holding his own body together with his powers, and Rachel needs to learn more about using her powers to their full potential before she could take down X-Man.

#8 Posted by Erik (29813 posts) - - Show Bio
eganthevile1 said:
"Gotta go with Nate (X-Man) sure his own powers killed him but he was stronger then Onslaught towards the end, Cable can never reach his full potential as of now, since he holding his own body together with his powers, and Rachel needs to learn more about using her powers to their full potential before she could take down X-Man."

Agreed.
#9 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

Cable and X-man are the same person to me.

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#10 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person.
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#12 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person."
Yes and no, Cable is older and wiser but telekinetically weaker, X-Man is younger and more brash, but insanely more advanced in his psychic powers. Plus Cable will fall apart if he uses his powers too much since he is using them to keep the nano-virus from spreading
#13 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person."
Yes and no, Cable is older and wiser but telekinetically weaker, X-Man is younger and more brash, but insanely more advanced in his psychic powers. Plus Cable will fall apart if he uses his powers too much since he is using them to keep the nano-virus from spreading"
When Cable was reborn in Cable in Deadpool as a baby before he was depowered again...he was X-man at one point.
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#14 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah but the Askani still got ahold of him, thus he became Cable not X-Man

#15 Posted by Erik (29813 posts) - - Show Bio

I understood that X-Man was the perfect blend of the two genetic templates. That being said, would it be safe to say X-Man has even more potential than Cable even if Cable didn't have the techno virus?

#16 Posted by EganTheVile1 (6181 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"I understood that X-Man was the perfect blend of the two genetic templates. That being said, would it be safe to say X-Man has even more potential than Cable even if Cable didn't have the techno virus?"

Cable was the natural result of Scott and Jean having a child, X-Man was genetically engineered by Sinister that is correct
#17 Posted by Erik (29813 posts) - - Show Bio

Madelyne Pryor but thanks for confirming.

#18 Posted by cracks (6781 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg: That was before Rachel downloaded Xavier's telepathic skill. Also, X-Man defeating Xavier: Xavier was not really trying there. Xavier rarely goes all out. X-Man was going all out. That was not a blood lusted Xavier. Emma defeated X-Man, so why can't Xavier? Can you see X-Man going toe to toe with Ego the Living Planet?    
 
@erik said:
" I understood that X-Man was the perfect blend of the two genetic templates. That being said, would it be safe to say X-Man has even more potential than Cable even if Cable didn't have the techno virus? "

X-Man's natural blockades have been removed by Sinister to make him more powerful than Cable or Stryfe. X-Man's raw power is slightly higher than Cable's or Stryfe's.  Sinister made him that way.  Cable was not tampered with.  X-Man was.                      %Pr
#19 Posted by NateGrey (33 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Man all the way, I know this is an old post but I had to respond. Nate was rivaling the Dark Phoenix in his EARLY days. Since then his powers, experience and knowledge of his abilities has grown exponentially. First of all he can use his powers without them killing him, plus he's evolved even more so since his resurrection to a point where he has full control of his precognition and is no longer limited to a physical form. Nate is on a level all his own at this point, just a hair away from perhaps White Phoenix and Franklin Richards.
 
Of course I believe Nate has the potential for reality warping given that he can already step outside of time, bend the and move between the barriers of reality, create physical constructs and beings from pure thought and psionic energy with hardly a thought. Of course I don't think they will take him that far as he is still already a god among gods power wise already and is hard to write apparently. 

#20 Posted by Mr Golden Rod (141 posts) - - Show Bio
@eganthevile1: I know Cable can't have his powers used all the way. But him and Apocalypse were going to beat Onslaught. But Susan Storm interrupted and Onslaught actually backed down from the fight.  Onslaught even informed Post that Cable is a great threat to him. I have seen Cable beat X man in the first time they encountered each other. I think Cable would just figure a way out to beat Rachel Summers with Phoenix Force. It wouldn't be because he would overpower her, but it would be because of his experience and intelligence.
#21 Posted by Mr Golden Rod (141 posts) - - Show Bio
@cracks: They are basically What If versions of each other.
#22 Posted by Edamame (28006 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mr Golden Rod said:
" @eganthevile1: I know Cable can't have his powers used all the way. But him and Apocalypse were going to beat Onslaught.
No. They were simply about to free Franklin Richards from Onslaught's control.
#23 Posted by BMEZY (1201 posts) - - Show Bio

i'd hate to admit it, but i too have to give it to Nate... dammit, rachel gets in her own way, she possesses the potential to wield unimaginal limitless power, and she still doesn't see it, and until then, she will always lose (shame)
#24 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3274 posts) - - Show Bio

X Man would win this. He has more skill than Rachel - she's been defeated by less powerful opponents before.

#25 Posted by blacharrt (1567 posts) - - Show Bio

X-man takes this, Rachel even with the phoenix has never ever displayed the amount of power and control X-man has.  And Cable was owned by a rookie X-men new to 616.  Give Cable his full powers, and rachel full access to the phoenix force and this would be an interesting fight.

#26 Edited by BMEZY (1201 posts) - - Show Bio
@blacharrt
 
it wouldn't be that interesting... rachel has yet to fully understand her potential, even with the full powerset of the phoenix, it would mean nothing if you don't know how to use it effectively. this is why rachel loses to ppl that she shouldn't be losing to. she gets in her own way... until she understands her worth as a phoenix avatar... she will never grow and reach her true potential... it's sadd but true; this is why nate and almost every other omega level mutant will always be able to defeat her.. in many ways she reminds me of bobby. nate wielding the phoenix force would be absolutely unstoppable.
#27 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
X-man.
#28 Posted by blacharrt (1567 posts) - - Show Bio
@BMEZY: well that ship has sailed considering Jean took the Phoenix Force away from her, but i believe your assessment of  skill level is right on. Nate however with his full powers reinstated would give x-man a good go.  Adding rachel to the mix even if she's not as skilled with the phoenix force would be enough of an distraction for Cable to pull out a possible win.  
But given the original post , they would just flat out lose.
#29 Posted by hyperbeing (380 posts) - - Show Bio

first off. Rachel will most likely win especially with phoenix cause she could warp reality and even defeated a reality warper.. and second the dark phoenix that just appeared in the comics a long time ago wasn't jean grey phoenix . it was phoenix who took the a small part of jeans essence pretending to be jean and limiting herself. but yes Rachel phoenix is stronger then dark phoenix and green phoenix cause of obvious reasons.

#30 Posted by Jayimfamous (61 posts) - - Show Bio

Well ever since x- sanctum comic issue, cable was cured by hope using the Phoenix force so he has no techno virus now. He is fully capable of using his abilities to its full potential. So the techno virus isn't in the realm of things now its him burning out.

#31 Posted by Jayimfamous (61 posts) - - Show Bio

So with cable not having the t.o anymore and his strategy and tactics he wins by a land side if you ask me.

#32 Posted by Hyperlight (4319 posts) - - Show Bio

If we are just talking about genetic potenital, experience and power levels. Nate takes it overall. Im gonna assume that Cable isnt as powerful as Nate because his mother was madelyn instead of the true jean ( which may or may not make a difference).

Nate has a lot of potenital but not as much as the other two and doesnt use the full brunt of his powers that often

Rachel has more potential than cable but less experience than nate.

X-Man has been using the his powers much longer and to higher degrees. he also has more potential than cable and is comparable to rachel.

Nate would prob win

#33 Edited by X_insignia1 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

Nate (Shaman)indeed does harbor more potential than Cable. Cable even stated so himself, given that Nate displayed abilities Cable has yet to demonstrate, So yes I would give X-Man the win given that he has demonstrated more control than the latter. but if we're going by current now, Rachel takes these two out rather easily, the other two are pretty much depowered

#34 Edited by X_insignia1 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayimfamous said:

Well ever since x- sanctum comic issue, cable was cured by hope using the Phoenix force so he has no techno virus now. He is fully capable of using his abilities to its full potential. So the techno virus isn't in the realm of things now its him burning out.

except for the fact that during burnt offerings the portion of cables brain that controlled his higher telekinetic/telepathic functions were removed, unless he somehow regrows them

i see no way of cable reaching those levels ever again

#35 Posted by Jayimfamous (61 posts) - - Show Bio

His powers are fully back in x-sacntum he was on the brink of dying to the tk virus and hope cured him... he doesnt have to hold back the t.o virus anymore, he can go all out now only thing that will hold him back is him burning his self out. I cant see rachel or x-man beating him when he fully powered or anyone for that matter in most cases. He has the ability to strategize and can go hand to hand with the best of them. Hes one of the best tactician i cant see them 2 beating him.

#36 Posted by Jayimfamous (61 posts) - - Show Bio

i meant to say x-sanction and this is hope curing cable from the t.o virus

#37 Posted by thanosii (1032 posts) - - Show Bio

cable takes even when infected he has beaten xman before and went toe to toe with surfer while levitating a city and repairing instant damaged. he has taken out red hulk and has better constan showings than the other two, though yes they have higher showings they also job alot e.g they both lost to emma while cable took out the whole avengers. Now with virus he has full potential and remember he is 616 which has always had more power so even from a clone mother 616 is stronger than alternate version does anyone disagree this point

#38 Edited by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person.

They really aren't.

You might as well say that 616 Spider-Man and Captain America are the same People as Ultimate Steve Rogers and Peter Parker. Or that AoA Nightcrawler is the same as 616. Or that any of the Alternate universe versions of Marvel characters are the same person as their 616 counterparts.

#39 Posted by thanosii (1032 posts) - - Show Bio

but 616 versions have always been said to be the stronger versions....

#40 Posted by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

but 616 versions have always been said to be the stronger versions....

That's not true at all.

For example Ultimate Captain America is a 5 tonner compared to 616 Cap's "Peak Human".

#41 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3726 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel with the Phoenix stomps, Nate Grey has never participated in the destruction of a solar system, lets see how well he does with moons and planets being thrown at him, because she could take that and keep fighting, while he was having problems with the Purple man and Hybrid. Cable has already admitted that Rachel was more powerful than he was, when he was answering her telepathic call from the end of time.

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

@Vance Astro said:

eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person.

They really aren't.

You might as well say that 616 Spider-Man and Captain America are the same People as Ultimate Steve Rogers and Peter Parker. Or that AoA Nightcrawler is the same as 616. Or that any of the Alternate universe versions of Marvel characters are the same person as their 616 counterparts.

This doesn't even make any sense. 
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#43 Posted by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Vance Astro said:

eganthevile1 said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cable and X-man are the same person to me."

Cable has been infected with a techno-organic virus, X-Man hasnt"
They are still the same person.

They really aren't.

You might as well say that 616 Spider-Man and Captain America are the same People as Ultimate Steve Rogers and Peter Parker. Or that AoA Nightcrawler is the same as 616. Or that any of the Alternate universe versions of Marvel characters are the same person as their 616 counterparts.

This doesn't even make any sense.

What part doesn't make sense? Is Ultimate Steve Rogers the same person as 616 Steve? Is Age of Apocalypse Nightcrawler the same person as 616 Kurt? No. They are completely different personalities with completely different ways of handling situations. Or, to use even more relevant examples...Is Stryfe the same person as Cable and X-Man as well? Is Madelyne Pryor the same Person as Jean Grey?

Just because two people have the same source of genetic material....it doesn't make them the exact same people. There's this whole "Life Experience" thing that factors in.

Cable and X-Man are just as different. Cable was born to Scott Summers and Madelyne Pryor (an imperfect clone of Jean Grey) , infected with the TO virus, transported to one possible future and raised as a soldier in the fight against Apocalypse. X-man was created in a test tube by Sinister (using genetic material from Scott and Jean) in the Age of Apocalypse to be used as Essex's weapon against En Sabah Nur. His growth was accelerated and he escaped to be raised by Forge in a traveling theatre/resistance group. Cable has spent most of his life using most of his TK to keep the TO virus in check. X-Man was genetically tinkered with to be the ultimate weapon against Apocalypse...Sinister fully expected his powers to eventually kill young Nate. Aside from that, they are just two guys that have, basically speaking, the same parents.

#44 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

Just because two people have the same source of genetic material....it doesn't make them the exact same people. There's this whole "Life Experience" thing that factors in.

Actually that's exactly what it means.
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#45 Posted by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Just because two people have the same source of genetic material....it doesn't make them the exact same people. There's this whole "Life Experience" thing that factors in.

Actually that's exactly what it means.

Actually, it really isn't. I draw your attention once again to Life Experience. Nate Grey and Nathan Summers share genetics...but they aren't even remotely close to being the same person.

Just Like Ultimate Peter Parker isn't the exact same person as 616 Parker..even though they were both born to Richard and Mary Parker.

#46 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

Actually, it really isn't. I draw your attention once again to Life Experience. Nate Grey and Nathan Summers share genetics...but they aren't even remotely close to being the same person.

Just Like Ultimate Peter Parker isn't the exact same person as 616 Parker..even though they were both born to Richard and Mary Parker.

For battle forum sake it doesn't really matter, because we'd debate for them as if they are separate characters but they are technically the same person. They have the same exact DNA which makes them the same person.
Moderator
#47 Posted by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Actually, it really isn't. I draw your attention once again to Life Experience. Nate Grey and Nathan Summers share genetics...but they aren't even remotely close to being the same person.

Just Like Ultimate Peter Parker isn't the exact same person as 616 Parker..even though they were both born to Richard and Mary Parker.

For battle forum sake it doesn't really matter, because we'd debate for them as if they are separate characters but they are technically the same person. They have the same exact DNA which makes them the same person.

The root word in "Personality" is "Person". Nate has a different Personality than Nathan,,,because he is a different Person. People are more than just their DNA.

Or do you think that Peter Parker, Ben Reilly, and Kaine are all the same person too?

#48 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

Or do you think that Peter Parker, Ben Reilly, and Kaine are all the same person too?

Yes.
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#49 Posted by Shawnbaby (9317 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Or do you think that Peter Parker, Ben Reilly, and Kaine are all the same person too?

Yes.

I'd like to hear how you justify such a position when Kaine routinely does things that Peter Parker would never do.

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shawnbaby said:

I'd like to hear how you justify such a position when Kaine routinely does things that Peter Parker would never do.

He's a clone. 
 
/justification
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