#1 Edited by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

Cop:

@i_like_swords

Team Almost Cops:

Blade

Agent Venom

Galen Marek (Original, the one without any TK feats in excess of the limit)

Luther Strode

Ninjak (Classic)

Summons and assistance:

Liberty Prime (12)

Bob, Agent of Hydra x3 (3)

Offensive:

Battle Computer (8)

2 Talismans (Rabbit, Snake) (4)

Adamantium Melee Weapon of your choice (Katana) (2)

Net Gun+Hunting Helmet – Predator (1)

Defensive:

Vibranium Mesh Suit/Adamantium Skeleton (4)

Mjolnir MK. IV Armor and Helmet – Master Chief (4)

Spider Sense (4)

Promethium Battle Armor – Deathstroke (3)

"We've been given an anonymous tip that a group of degenerates plan to rob our newest fort, it's acting as an outpost in between Fort Knox and D.C. Now, normally, we wouldn't worry. But our problem is, we know they've gotten into our systems these guys are confirmed supers and that's ALL we know about 'em. It's only a matter of time before they shut down our systems. I don't want a blood bath so I ordered an evacuation of all troops, because I am confident in your ability to handle this. I don't usually do this, but you have confirmation, kill on sight. If these guys succeed, the economy is screwed, even more so than it is now. You have an ETA of 10 minutes to lay down any traps before those criminals get there, I'm giving you 20 frag mines. Do this country proud."

@i_like_swords, your objective is:

Kill enemy team.

Defend the vault.

Robber:

@omgomgwtfwtf

Team:

Mister Negative - two Adamantium Swords and five Adamantium daggers

Gorgon (Tomi Shishido) - Grasscutter and Godkiller, Rat Talisman (No stone stare.)

Mister X - two Adamantium Swords, Horse Talisman

Daken - Maramasa blade implants, Adamantium skeleton, Rabbit Talisman, Ring of Free Movement

Ian Nottingham - Blood Sword, Horse Talisman, Fear Gas

Summons and Assistance:

14 - 28 Hand Ninjas

1 - Bob, Agent of Hydra

Offensive:

4 - Adamantium Weapons

8 - 4 Talismans - 2 Horse Talismans, 1 Rat Talismans, and 1 Rabbit Talisman

3 - 9 Scarecrow Fear Gas

Defensive:

10 - Total Defense

4 - Adamantium Skeleton

1 - Ring of Free Movement

"Aha, we got into their mainframe. Their sentries are dead, and their soldiers are leaving. I bet they are bringing in some big guns. I suggest you prepare for a bombardment. This will be a good old death match. But here's the kicker, I presume they think we wanna steal their money. That would be too difficult, money would be too dirty. I want you to burn it. In the words of a famous clown, it's about sending a message."

@omgomgwtfwtf, your objective is:

Kill the enemy team.

Destroy the vault.

The vault is on a heavy loader. swords, you can put the vault wherever you like.

#2 Edited by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

@captaindoeo: Cool set up

@omgomgwtfwtf Since our gear is already laid out, I think I'll move on to strategy.

I've laid out my interpretation of the map. From my understanding it's a large fort, with a single path street, and a few buildings. It'll also be at night from what I can tell.

The Red X is where I've placed the Vault. The Black Arrows are the two entrances to the fort.

So now, we discuss what exactly is stopping you from getting to that vault. Well I guess it's only fair I lay out what type of defence should be waiting for you.

This is Liberty Prime. Here you see him decimating an army of Enclave in power armour. He was shot by several missile launchers and intentionally stood into forcefields to absorb and destroy them.

He has two energy cannons mounted on his head, and he's pretty much indestructible. His range is huge. In addition, he also has explosive capabilities:

He'll be sitting right here:

(Liberty Prime is the white star)

I'm aware that in addition to your team you have 14 Hand Ninjas. Prime should decimate all of them, or at the very least the majority. He may even take a few of your teammates out while they attempt to sneak past. He was only destroyed by an orbital warhead bombardment, so I don't see him taking a fall in this fight.

Next up, anyone who actually makes it past Liberty Prime will have to deal with four of my team members.

Agent Venom

Agent Venom is one the big hitters on my team, so he should be alright without any perks. He's going to be on stealth attack duty.

I'll just post a couple of his best feats to show what he brings to the internet table.

Fast enough to dodge machine gun fire from dozens of soldiers.

Fought against Toxin and shows use of his ability to form bladed weapons with his symbiote

I'm having a tough time digging up the scans, but he's also fought on much more even terms with Carnage and is strong enough to rip the head off a tank.

Durable enough to withstand bullets, electrocutions, punches from Spider-Man level characters, exlposives, arrows and even a shield slash across the face.

As far as stealth goes, he's got camouflage capabilities as well as shapeshifting, so he'll use this to his advantage while he waits for your team.

Blade

Blade will be alongside Galen as my primary attack force. Your team will see them before Venom and Ninjak intervene.

Here's Blade avoiding machine gun. It's a consistent feat for him.

Blitzes a group of superhuman vampires, and blocks machine gun fire with his chain.

Cuts a vampires body in half 7 times, and sheaths his sword before it begins to fall apart.

Now for a bunch of strength feats

Digs up to the surface from underground using his bare hands

Easily holds a grown man up with an outstretched arm

Jumps so high he appears to be flying

Lifts the vampire god "reaver"

Rips head off of vampire

Rips off metal door

Throws a knife at a vampire pinning down Spider-Man so hard he sends it flying

Easily throws a vampire

He's as durable as he is strong:

Intentionally blows up a building he is in. Ends up just fine.

Impaled by Dracula with his own sword. Should be fine.

Shot by Punisher without wearing Kevlar. No biggie.

Survives a crash from a SHIELD helicarrier unscaved. Pretty standard.

He's fast, strong, durable and heals like a champ. I'll get onto his skill later in the debate.

Blades perks

Blades perks are also going to be a thorn in your side. He has a net gun + helmet from Predator that allows him to see in X-Ray, Heat Vision, Ultra Light modes, and sonar. So he should have the jump on any of your teammates just before the fight starts.

He also has the predator net gun, which could turn out to be useful:

I've hooked Blade up with a dandy Spider-Sense. I don't think we need to go into that but if need be I'll post some scans.

He'll be donning Slade promethium armour.

The famous submarine drop feat and his armor protecting him from a helicopter minigun:

..that's all for Blade.

Galen Marek

Galen's combat is going to be centred around the use of the force. However, should the need arise, he can also use his skill in lightsaber combat to compensate.

Scans 1 & 2 - Galen deflects a barrage of blaster fire from Stormtroopers/clones (can't remember which it is). In the second scan he is doing it with one hand, while he TK drops an X-Wing.

Scan 3 - He is also able to deflect such blasts at close range, which is a testament to his speed and reaction times.

Examples of Galens force lightning. Easily kills stormtroopers and the plant life attacking him on Felucia (I believe the planet was called, anyway).

Galens force push sends three stormtroopers flying.

In scans 2-3 he jumps a massive distance, lands with no injury, and slams the ground sending several stormtroopers off their feet.

Sends a destroyed X-Wing skidding across the floor and destroys a group of stormtroopers with it.

So that's the basic jist of his force abilities as well as his combat speed.

Like Agent Venom, Galen won't need any perks.

So, just to recap:

  • Liberty Prime is on the front lines guarding the streets leading up to the vault.
  • Agent Venom is lurking in the shadows using his camouflage. He'll then go in for the quick stealth kill using a formed blade while the others engage.
  • Galen Marek and Blade, while trying to get the best jump on your team they can, will be on the frontlines when your team pass Liberty Prime.

Now, onto Ninjak and Luther. Then I'll talk briefly about the 20 frag mines!

Ninjak

Ninjak is Britains best operative and the worlds leading expert on weaponry. He's a master ninja as well as master of technology. Fierce combatant, stealthy killer and tech genius. He'll keep your hands full.

His role in the fight will be to take to the walls/rooftops and spam out coins against your team while the others engage. That should kill or severely injure a couple of your team members given the speed he'll be throwing them at with his Rabbit Talisman (we'll come onto that). He'll then jump down and blitz your team in melee combat with the others. Bearing in mind he'll be invisible during this because of his Snake Talisman.

Okay, let's talk sword skill for a second.

After witnessing his fathers death and retreating, he gets cornered and scores his first kill against a confirmed ninja. This is ninjak in his PRE-TEENS.

Here's teenage Ninjak training up to get revenge. Flips over a fence, dodges shrukiens, and catches a knife between his palms. His reaction speeds and athletic ability even in his teenage years was something to be admired.

So, he did his training, and puts it to good use. He handily defeats trained ninjas in sword combat in his teenage years.

Here's Ninjak defeating various fodder, in very impressive fashion. A further showcase of his acrobatic ability, as well as his skill. Also a nice double decaptiation in there.

Ninjak vs superhuman threats?

Defeats a mutant that took a sword slash across the face with ease. The thing caught him off guard too, and he still managed to land the decap.

I'll now showcase Ninjaks various ninja skillz and acrobatics

Scans 1-5 - Ninjak is at gunpoint, and hears a guard approaching. He throws up some blast bearings and plays dead, making the guard think that his female accomplice shot Ninjak. Ninjak plays dead for a while, then whoops his ass.

Scans 6-8 - Ninjak vaults a speeding car.. "Phantome"

Ninjak likes to use "coins" as weapons. Sounds ridiculous, but let me show just how effective he is with them in combination with his ninjaness:

Throws a coin, flips three light switches. Followed by some stealth killing in pitch black.

Here's a nice stealth kill with a coin along with Ninjak out-reacting a gunman.

Ninjak temporarily blinding X-O Manowar with a flash coin

Let's round off with some speed/reaction feats

Scan 1 - Dodging machine gun fire

Scans 2-5 - Dodging machine gun fire then disappearing onto a rooftop; out of sight.

Honestly, that was only from Ninjak 0-6. I have about 20 more comics full of even more impressive feats, but that'd involve a lot more picture taking. If need be I'll dig up even more feats for Ninjak, but until then, let's talk about all the perks I've set Ninjak up with.

Ninjaks Perks (have to remove spoiler block for video)

Ninjak will have the Rabbit and Snake Talismans. Long story short; the snake Talisman makes you invisible.

The Rabbit Talisman will allow Ninjak to move at this speed:

After a month of practising with this Talisman, Ninjak should have mastered incorporating it into combat.

So he'll be moving at that speed, while invisible, doing everything I showcased above. Scary, right? Not as scary as what follows.

Ninjak will also be hooked up with the following perk:

Adamantium/Carbonadium/Vibranium Melee Weapon of your choice. Turns all existing melee weapons into these if you choose

So that's two Adamantium Katanas, and two Adamantium Sai. It's safe to say your guys will be cut to ribbons. But there's more!

He'll also be hooked up with a vibranium mesh suit, along the lines of Black Panthers suit. The same one that allowed Black Panther to fight with Namor and survive insane amounts of damage. So he'll be very well protected.

Here's the kicker - Battle Computer

If you don't know what the Battle Computer is, Midnighter explains it well here:

So, let's recap on Ninjaks prep gear

  • Insane super speed and invisibility
  • Adamantium melee weapons
  • Vibranium mesh suit
  • Battle Computer allowing him to simulate a fight a million times in his head before it happens, pick up on electrical activity in an opponents brain, and find out all of their special abilities and enhancements

GG

Luther Strode

Now, let's suppose you got past all of that. Then you have to deal with Luther Strode who will be waiting right infront of the Vault as it's last line of defence. He's already formidable enough on his own, but I've also given him some perks in order to turn him into a team-busting tank. First though, let's talk regular Luther.

Luther has immense striking strength and speed

1 - Punches skull apart

2 - What he can do to fodder

3 - Dancing through machine gun fire before destroying fodder

4 - Another like himself - Jack the Ripper - is exceptionally faster than Luther. Luther is able to react to him, and slams him into the ground creating a massive crater.

Luthers fight with the Librarian. Librarian is Luthers physical equal at this point. Their strikes are so powerful that they manage to collapse a warehouse on themselves.

Not impressed, well; here's an impressive speed/reaction feat for Librarian. Now take into account that Luther fought and defeated this guy:

And to sum up strength/speed, some more bullet dodging:

Next we'll move onto durability and healing

Bare in mind here that this was very early on. His powers hadn't fully manifested yet. Despite this, he's able to pop the bullets out that were caught in his thick muscle tissue, by further hardening his muscles.

Back onto the Librarian - here's what makes it impressive that Luther was able to take punches from this guys:

He easily destroys steel doors and has impressive striking feats of his own against fodder.

So, his durability is pretty good. How's his healing factor?

Scan 1 - Librarian is stabbed in the neck, yet isn't phased in the slightest and continues to talk. Bare in mind, he went through the same training as Luther, so it's sufficient to say Luther could replicate this.

Scans 2 & 3 - Luther is cut up repeatedly by Jack the Ripper. Not too much later he is fully healed.

But you know what? That's simply not enough.

Luther is disembowelled by Librarian. So, what does he do? Takes his own intestines, wraps them round Librarians neck, snaps it backwards, then casually places his intestines back. Yeah.. that just happened.

Let's finish this off by talking about Luthers precognition

His precog lets him see the "thousands of moves someone could make before they make them"

Scan 1 - His first showing of precog. Able to effortlessly tag his school bully.

Scan 2 - Through his precog, he's able to play out the scenario in his head of how he could kill his school bully.

Scan 3 - Able to use precog on the Librarian. You know, that guy who casually moves his head out the way of already-fired bullets?

Now onto the real reason you should be scared of Luther; his perks!

Luthers Perks

Mjolnir MK. IV Armor and Helmet.

It increases ones reactionary speed by a factor of five, and their physicals by a factor of two. An inferior version of this armour has survived falls from near-orbit and is able to shrug off 26th century firearms.

So now Luther reacts five times as fast as he normally would, and has his precognition in addition to this. I wouldn't be surprised if he saw the world in slow motion at this point. His already impressive durability is even further increased. He'll also be a comfortable 10 tonner in strength with this upgrade.

However, that's not all.

I've also hooked Luther up with an Adamantium Skeleton. So even if you breach the armour, his muscle, AND his healing, you still won't be able to break his bones, unless you're swinging something with enough strength and force to break through all of that. Luther should be virtually indestructible.

If your team wasn't wiped out by Liberty Prime, or the other four members of my team, then they CERTAINLY won't have enough left in the tank to contend with Luther, especially given his upgrades.

Just as a slap in the balls, I'll talk about where I'm placing the frag mines.

Frag Mines

Luther Strode will place frag mines all around the ground while the battle goes on. He'll try to cover as much area as possible. The frags won't be anywhere near my teammates, so there's no worries about them falling back and stepping on one. They'll know they're there too.

Brief Recap

  • Liberty Prime thins out the ranks and in general causes you as much damage as possible to begin with
  • Agent Venom and Ninjak will descend into the battle from the shadows to catch your team members off guard, and stealth kill a few. Ninjak in particular should have no problem blitzing your team.
  • Blade and Galen Marek will be the first to engage your team, head on. Once backed up by their teammates, they should be a fearsome foursome.
  • Supposing Liberty Prime doesn't demolish your whole team, Ninjak doesn't blitz everyone, Agent Venom doesn't punch out and strangle them, Blade doesn't cut them to ribbons, and Galen doesn't fry them with force lightning? Luther while completely indestructible and lightning fast will make short work of your battered force of bad guys.

#11 Posted by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf

I am finally DONE with my opener. It took 11 hours on and off, but there it is.

#12 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

Okay, let me begin by listing my characters, their equipment and some feats associated with each of them.

Afterwards I will list my strategy, then I will spend the last third refuting your points.

Characters

Mister Negative

Mister Negative is a Chinese immigrant turned gangster warlord. He gained his power through an ingestion of chemicals and became light and dark. His powers stem from the Darkforce to an unknown degree and because of this he is granted many different powers. Some of his powers include superhuman strength, durability, reflexes, and agility.

He is strong enough to send Spider-man flying with a palm strike.

To match his super strength he's pretty durable as well. How durable is he now? Well, I'm not entirely sure to be honest. He is listed to be regenerative (category 4) in the Marvel Handbook, but he has displayed durability surpassing that, given that he was able to survive a large explosion without any injuries.

Here he is taking hits from Anti-Venom, who is stronger than Regular Venom, and Spider-Man.

He is fast enough to dodge bullets and cut them with his sword in his fight with a Dormammu possessed Hood.

Skilled enough to take down Shang-Chi with no effort.

Now that we have his physical enhancements out of the way, let's get to more nifty powers.

For one, he can heal people with a touch. Here he is healing Eddie Brock of his terminal cancer and was the one who turned Brock into the Anti-Venom.

He also has the ability to turn people into his inner-demons, which grants them a healing factor and enhanced stats. What is also nice is that they cannot die unless Mr. Negative allows them to.

He can also corrupt people with just a touch as he did to Spider-man and Aunt May. He also used his corruption powers to control several villains.

For this tournament, instead of regular swords and daggers, he will be armed with adamantium swords and daggers.

So he will have weapons that can cut through virtually anything, that will also be charged with Darkforce energy.

Tomi Shishido a.k.a. The Gorgon

A Japanese mutant with a plethora of powers, Tomi Shishido became an assassin for the Hand and Hydra after discovering his destiny: to kill a god. His original mutation grants him the ability to turn people into stone through eye contact, telepathy and a regenerative healing factor. Aside from these powers, he is also a super-genius. After his resurrection by the Hand, he gained superhuman strength, speed, durability, agility and reflexes. However, due to tournament rules, Gorgon's stone stare will be disabled.

Before his resurrection (i.e. physical enhancements), he was capable of taking down a whole ton of ninjas with his eyes closed.

Post resurrection, he is capable of speed blitzing Wolverine and killing him.

Completely decimates Elektra and some SHIELD agents.

Versus Wolverine and Elektra.

Gorgon impaled the sword so deep in concrete that Wolverine needed help from several people just to remove the sword from his throat.

Killing some SHIELD agents, fighting Wolverine and using telepathy.

As part of his standard equipment, Gorgon will be armed with both the Kusanagi (Grasscutter) and Godkiller swords.

Both swords are capable of slaying Gods and the Godkiller can also kill those with healing factors. Gorgon was able to kill himself with the Godkiller before his first resurrection, despite having a healing factor as part of his mutation. He has also tried killing himself prior to acquiring the Godkiller, but to no avail.

He will also be armed with the Rat Talisman. The Rat Talisman allows him to animate inert objects, making them come to life and become sentient.

Start at the 6:10 mark

Start at the 2:50 mark

Mister X

Born into a wealthy family, Mister X latent telepathy was triggered when he saw a woman get hit by a car. He bonded with the woman's mind and became infatuated with death. He then killed his parents and went on a journey to be the greatest killing machine in human history. For years he traveled around the world learning martial arts from various people, only to kill them once he surpassed their skill. He is a master of all forms of human combat, including several alien ones.

Now onto the good parts, here Mister X effortlessly killed an Asgardian.

Owning Wolverine.

Absolutely decimating Taskmaster.

Second fight with Wolverine.

Good reflex feats versus Black Widow and Songbird. Deflecting bullets from an automatic weapon and catching tranquilizer darts with his hand.

After losing to a feral Wolverine, Mister X retrains himself to be able to fight feral opponents. He refocuses his mind to focus only on what he's doing, eliminating any stray thoughts from his mind.

His most recent fight with Wolverine. Learns that he has no way of killing Wolverine because of his adamantium bones and healing factor. Still a good show of skill as Wolverine couldn't land a hit.

Now, there seems to be a discrepancy as to what Mister X's power actually is.

Originally he was a low-level psychic who can map his nervous system to motor responses of anyone within his vicinity, allowing to read opponent's moves.

However in his most recent appearance in Thunderbolts, Mister X has been written to be an actual telepath, who reads an opponent's mind and reacts accordingly.

For this specific tournament Mister X is armed with two adamantium swords and the Horse Talisman.

The Horse Talisman gives the wielder a regenerative healing factor and can repair damage broken objects as well.

Daken

The son of Wolverine and Itsu. Daken inherited his father's healing powers as well as the power to excrete pheromones. Trained at an early age by Romulus to be a perfect killing machine, Daken is as skilled, if not more so, than his father and has shown to best some of the greatest hand to hand combatants in Marvel.

First fight with Wolverine.

Fight with Deadpool. Daken explains how he is capable of disappearing from people's line of sight.

Fight with Cyber (pre-adamantium).

Fights Cyber with adamantium.

Killing Punisher.

Good agility showing. Dodging Ares, Thing, and Skaar.

Dodging a point blank shot by Frankencastle.

Daken, unlike his father, has the ability to emit pheromones from his body and has absolute control over how they affect people.

He can make people fall in love with him, man or woman, and often uses this to catch his opponents off guard.

He can use his pheromones to incite feelings in people, such as anger. He has done this to Skaar, Thing, and Ares before.

His pheromones can also alter perception, like in his fight with Spider-Man.

For this battle he will also be armed with shards of the Muramasa Blade, which will be implanted into his wrists.

The blade is fully capable of nullifying healing factors as seen in his fight with Skaar.

The Muramasa Blade is capable of cutting straight through the Iron Patriot Armor, with Norman Osborn inside.

Daken will also have an adamantium skeleton to supplement his durability as well. His adamantium would also coat his remaining four claws, thus making him nearly indestructible and, in turn, be able to cut through virtually any substance.

Daken will also be armed with the Rabbit Talisman, which gives super-speed. Since you already posted a video of the Rabbit Talisman's capabilities, I won't put one up. To supplement this, I also gave Daken the Ring of Free Movement.

The Ring of Free Movement prevents Daken from having his movement's impeded by anything. The effects also extend to being held or grappled. He will automatically be able to escape someone's grasp.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freedom_of_Movement

Ian Nottingham

Formally a Captain of the Special Airs Service for the MI5 (British Security Service). He underwent modifications towards his behavior to be able to go undercover perfectly. He has been raised since a child by Kenneth Irons, who wanted to mold him into the perfect warrior. He was routinely tortured and beaten throughout his life in order to increase his ability to withstand pain, and as a form of punishment to ensure that failure was not within Nottingham's mind frame.

He is fast enough to catch bullets with his hands. What is more impressive is that he catches most of these bullets at point blank range and with zero effort.

Here he is deflecting bullets with his sword.

Moves at blurring speeds.

Fully capable of pulling off the ninja disappearing trick.

Strong enough to slice through cars with minimal effort.

Here he is breaking out of prison and killing a bunch of guards with his bare hands.

His body is also built to be able to absorb a near unlimited amount of magical energy.

Here he is absorbing the Witchblade from Sara.

He is also the current wielder of the Blood Sword.

The sword gives him the ability to project energy and kill beings who would otherwise be considered immortal.

His sword has demonstrated the ability to negate healing factors and kill magical beings, even beings like the Angelus.

Killing Michael Finnegan, who is the wielder of the Glacier stone, which grants it wielder powers similar to Ice Man. Also one of the 13 artifacts of the Top Cow universe.

Ian Nottingham will also be carrying the Horse Talisman and the Scarecrow's fear gas.

Prep

For my prep, I would be utilizing Mr. Negative's powers to enhance everyone of my teammates and henchmen. They will all become his inner-demons and gain the benefits of being such. However, he will leave the minds of his teammates alone, so they will have full control over their own cognitive abilities.

So I will have 14 enhanced Hand Ninja and one enhanced Bob.

Next, Tomi Shishido will mind link all of my teammates together so they can stay within constant contact of each other.

Ian will take the rat talisman from Gorgon and absorb its energies, thus transferring its abilities to him. He will do the same for the Horse Talisman he's carrying as well.

Daken will use his super-speed and stealth to circle the perimeter of the base, scouting the area out.

Daken will also take the fear gas from Ian, to be used in the later periods of the battle.

Strategy

Okay so my strategy is pretty simple.

Daken will take the enhanced Hand Ninja and Bob towards the right entrance (highlighted as the blue line) as a distraction.

Daken will activate any frag mines in his path via his super speed, but won't be tagged given the speed which he is moving.

He will then travel into the fort releasing the fear gas and his pheromones, driving your team crazy.

Afterwards he will grab the attention of the Liberty Robot and use his super-speed to completely dismantle it via his adamantium claws.

The Hand Ninjas then move in (plus Bob), while everyone is distracted with the gas and pheromones, and the robot with Daken.

They will do their ninja thing and kill whoever they see, providing ample distraction, and because of their enhancements via Mister Negative, they will be super meat shields.

While that is happening, the rest of my team moves in from the south entrance and move towards the vault.

Any land mines they come across won't be problematic due to healing factor and inherent durability.

Gorgon would sense anyone approaching our vicinity via his telepathy and alert my team of their whereabouts.

We then kill anyone who challenges my team through awesome sword slicing.

Rebuttal

Okay this is where I start refuting some of the points you brought up in your first post.

1) Your team's healing factor can be completely nullified by my team. Three of my team members have weapons that nullify healing factors quite easily.

2) The majority of my team have adamantium weapons, so durability is not much of an issue.

2) Battle computer can be overcome via telepathy, which two of teammates have.

3) All of your talisman powers can be absorbed via Ian Nottingham, so those will be useless. Also, it's impossible to be stealthy versus telepathy.

4) The Liberty Prime robot looks likes a watered down version of a Sentinel honestly, and judging from its weapons, Daken would have absolutely no trouble destroying it.

Adamantium claws + super-speed = scrap metal in a couple of seconds.

#14 Posted by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: This should definitely prove to be a good debate!

Just pointing out one thing; you don't have any prep time. It was only my team that was given 10 minutes to lay traps, so I'll move onto what's after that.

Rebuttal

Daken will take the enhanced Hand Ninja and Bob towards the right entrance (highlighted as the blue line) as a distraction.

Shouldn't be enhanced, but okay, that's what I wanted anyway. Liberty Prime does his thing and uses explosives and future tech lasers to destroy the Hand Ninjas, and Daken would probably be too fast too tag.

Daken will activate any frag mines in his path via his super speed, but won't be tagged given the speed which he is moving.

The frag mines are only going to be placed around the general vicinity of the Vault, which is being guarded by Luther Strode. You wouldn't know about the frag mines, but regardless, I'll later explain why going looking for them would be a bad idea.

He will then travel into the fort releasing the fear gas and his pheromones, driving your team crazy.

At which point Agent Venom is made aware of the poison and absorbs all of it, including pheromones:

-

Afterwards he will grab the attention of the Liberty Robot and use his super-speed to completely dismantle it via his adamantium claws.

I realized that while durable, Liberty wouldn't be able to deal with Adamantium. However, after an Orbital Warhead Strike he was still able to move his arms and speak. So despite having been blown apart, what was left still functioned. This leads me to believe that one person slashing away at his legs won't be able to take him down as easily as you state he would. He'd be letting of explosions and lasers long after Daken began his attack.

The Hand Ninjas then move in (plus Bob), while everyone is distracted with the gas and pheromones, and the robot with Daken.

They will do their ninja thing and kill whoever they see, providing ample distraction, and because of their enhancements via Mister Negative, they will be super meat shields.

The Hand Ninjas and Bob won't be enhanced because you have no prep time. Nobody will be distracted by the gas or pheromones becaue Agent Venom can absorb them. The Robot is durable enough and keep itself functioning for an ample amount of time while Daken attacks it.

Unenhanced Hand Ninjas vs Blade, Galen, Ninjak and Agent Venom (once he's done with any gas)? I don't see that ending well. This is while baring in mind that their numbers have been thinned by Prime:

Blade - Has a Spider-Sense, Promethium Armour, and a Predator helmet letting him see in many different forms including ultra light, heat, sonar, x-ray. That along with his superhuman abilities and sheer skill should be enough to suggest he can defeat your Hand Ninjas. I could argue that he would solo them, considering he goes up against Vampires that are his physical equal routinely and defeats them.

Galen Marek - His force pushing, electricity and slamming, as well as his reaction speed and lightsaber skills are enough to suggest Hand Ninjas would mean nothing to him.

Ninjak - He was killing Ninjas as a teenager, and has the skill feats to suggest he can deal with them. Not only that, but he has a battle computer, super-speed, invisibility, Adamantium weapons and Vibranium Mesh armour. He could very easily solo every single one of those Ninjas in 15 seconds if being generous.

Agent Venom - Due to his strength, healing, durability along with his reactions and other symbiote powers he should have no problem whatsoever.

While that is happening, the rest of my team moves in from the south entrance and move towards the vault.

Any land mines they come across won't be problematic due to healing factor and inherent durability.

Yeah this is what I don't get. How are they going through the route of the red arrows? There are two walls in their way. Maybe if @captaindoeo could shed some light on how high the walls are, or if they're even able to be climbed over, we can judge your strategy better.

But yeah, even if you do manage to go over that way, it'll basically be your guys vs mine in a 5v5, potentially 4v4 to begin with, with Daken fighting Liberty Prime and Agent Venom absorbing poison.

And fair enough about Land Mines, but I think it's fair game to say anyone without any special kind of regeneration or durability resistant to explosives that powerful will have quite a bit of healing to do.

Gorgon would sense anyone approaching our vicinity via his telepathy and alert my team of their whereabouts.

We then kill anyone who challenges my team through awesome sword slicing.

Sensing is one thing - reacting is another.

You ain't killin nuttin'

1) Your team's healing factor can be completely nullified by my team. Three of my team members have weapons that nullify healing factors quite easily.

Evidence that Godkiller actually nullifies healing factors?

Why does Daken have shards of the Muramasa blade?

How does Ian Nottingham decapping an Angel I know nothing about = healing factor negating sword.

I apologize if it seems like I'm nitpicking, but you suddenly having three people on your team who can negate healing factors, when I have a team full of people with healing factors, seems too good to be true. You haven't shown Godkiller negating a healing factor. Nor have you shown why shards of muramasa are part of Dakens standard gear. Nor have you shown anything to suggest that decapping that angel = healing factor negation.

And extra on the Daken thing - how would he know to bring Muramasa shards if he knows nothing about my team? Seems out of character.

However, even if you can prove all of that, it shouldn't be justification for a win, and I'll show you why.

2) The majority of my team have adamantium weapons, so durability is not much of an issue.

I also have Adamantium weapons on my team, as well as others ways of offence.

2) Battle computer can be overcome via telepathy, which two of teammates have.

I don't understand this one at all. How can someone on my team essentially having perfect precog be negated by mind reading? They'll read Ninjaks mind, and see themselves performing millions of different moves. So what? It doesn't mean they can act differently. In fact, the Battle Computer essentially tells Ninjak that they have telepathy, so it would account for every action they would take even while incorporating telepathy.

3) All of your talisman powers can be absorbed via Ian Nottingham, so those will be useless. Also, it's impossible to be stealthy versus telepathy.

Said by you:

His body is also built to be able to absorb a near unlimited amount of magical energy.

Here he is absorbing the Witchblade from Sara.

False. It mentions that he can absorb energy. If you actually read the scans, he fails to absorb the Witch Blade. I don't see how a fail at energy absorption = Absorbing unlimited magical energy meaning he can absorb the Talismans.

Right now he has no quantifiable feats to say he can absorb the Talismans powers. No offence, but this and the thing with the healing factor negation is starting to seem like you're misinterpeting scans to give yourself useful abilities.

4) The Liberty Prime robot looks likes a watered down version of a Sentinel honestly, and judging from its weapons, Daken would have absolutely no trouble destroying it.

Adamantium claws + super-speed = scrap metal in a couple of seconds.

..I never compared it to a Sentinel. I gave you it's durability feats from Enclave Laser Weapons, forcefields and Missile launchers, as well as it still functioning after Orbital bombardment. Daken will bust through it's legs, sure, but stating that he can completely destroy the thing in seconds is an exaggeration of Dakens abilities in this fight. If anything Daken will get caught in a few blasts.

Why my Team has what it takes to defeat yours

1) Liberty Prime is going to shred through a good portion of your Hand Ninjas, and will remain on the battlefield for a long time, unless you can convince me that Daken can solo it. Seems unlikely.

2) Ninjak should be able to solo the remaining Hand Ninjas in seconds. He can also deal with any of your team mates.

I provided the feat for the Rabbit Talismans speed. His snake Talisman will keep him invisible. He has Adamantium katanas/sais. He'll be able to throw his coins at an absolutely absurd speed because of the Rabbit talisman. The Battle Computer will simulate every single confrontation he goes into millions of times, as well as telling him all of his opponents physical stats and powers. There will be nothing you can surprise him with and he'll be able to react accordingly. He's wearing the Vibranium suit, which leads me to believe he can even survive a strike from Adamantium. Not that he'll be getting his anyway.

3) Agent Venom, Blade, and Galen Marek are sufficient distractions as well as fully competent fighters on their own, nevermind Ninjak. Agent Venom could run through machine gun fire without getting hit, while carrying civilians. Blade has dodged machine gun fire and blocked it with a chain. Galen Marek has deflected blaster fire at close range and from dozens of stormtroopers. It's safe to say they are just as fast as any of your teammates in reactions. Blade and Venom have healing factors of their own, and you have no answer for Galens force abilities. Blade and Venom also have a Spider-Sense, which means they should effectively beat any of your teammates to the punch every time.

4) Luther Strode should absolutely annihilate anyone on your team.

- Adamantium Skeleton

- Healing factor allowing him to overcome toxins and casually survive disembowellment/knives through the neck.

- 10 Ton strength

- Higher reaction time than anyone on your team, including Daken. Advanced precog, his already insane reaction time x5. Physicals x2.

- Durable enough to survive falling from Orbit and tank 26th century tech.

So essentially, Luther and Ninjak are there for the blitz, and Luther is indestructible. The rest are already formidable opponents on their own, nevermind my other teammates.

5) Frag mines will force your injured teammates to retreat and regenerate, leaving them open.

You. Ain't. Touching. That. Vault.

#15 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

Rebuttal

Just pointing out one thing; you don't have any prep time. It was only my team that was given 10 minutes to lay traps, so I'll move onto what's after that.

Perhaps you're mistaken about something. I'm the one instigating the attack. You're defending and I'm attacking. My prep is merely readying myself for battle. Everything I just said would literally take no more than 10 minutes to accomplish.

Being the invader, I'm afforded the luxury of attacking when I'm readying since if I don't start, nothing will happen.

Shouldn't be enhanced, but okay, that's what I wanted anyway. Liberty Prime does his thing and uses explosives and future tech lasers to destroy the Hand Ninjas, and Daken would probably be too fast too tag.

My Hand Ninjas are not going to go in until Liberty Prime goes down.

Given that Daken has adamantium claws and super-speed it's a matter of slicing it up into chunks and leaving it inoperable.

It would be absolutely silly for me to send my Hand Ninjas in just to die.

Also, my enhancements are still in. Mr. Negative can corrupt through touch and it only takes moments. He has done this to Eddie Brock, Aunt May, Peter Parker, Shang-Chi, and a bunch of no-name super-villains.

At which point Agent Venom is made aware of the poison and absorbs all of it, including pheromones:

Pheromones isn't poisonous. Also, your scan doesn't prove he can absorb all the gas being released. From what I can understand of it, he's absorbing the gas within his immediate vicinity.

Your scan doesn't suggest he can absorb all the gas being released.

Daken has super-speed, he's going to be releasing it throughout your base, not in one location.

I realized that while durable, Liberty wouldn't be able to deal with Adamantium. However, after an Orbital Warhead Strike he was still able to move his arms and speak. So despite having been blown apart, what was left still functioned. This leads me to believe that one person slashing away at his legs won't be able to take him down as easily as you state he would. He'd be letting of explosions and lasers long after Daken began his attack.

Daken was capable of stabbing completely through the Iron-Patriot armor, which is an Iron Man armor.

Even Classic Iron Man's armor would still be more durable than Liberty Prime.

Also, the nature of how the machine is built reveals vulnerabilities in it.

The upper arm and upper legs are extremely vulnerable as you can see. Simply cutting through its arms and legs would incapacitate the machine.

Daken had absolutely no issue taking down Skaar and future Hulks, and they are many times more powerful than Liberty Prime.

Note how he has bone claws in those pics and doesn't have the Muramasa blade implants anymore.

I have all of those, which would greatly increase his cutting power.

The Hand Ninjas and Bob won't be enhanced because you have no prep time. Nobody will be distracted by the gas or pheromones becaue Agent Venom can absorb them. The Robot is durable enough and keep itself functioning for an ample amount of time while Daken attacks it.

Once again, it takes no more than a few moments for Mr. Negative to 'corrupt' people. All it takes is a touch from him and people become infected. I have shown scans of this above.

Unless your team is all standing next to Agent Venom, the gas being released will affect the people not within the immediate vicinity of Flash.

The Robot's durability is completely worthless vs Daken's adamantium.

It would be an entirely different matter if the thing he was fighting was extremely dense and extremely thick (like a sentinel or the Hulk), but as the pics above show. The machine is really thin at certain parts. Parts that Daken would use to his utmost advantage.

Unenhanced Hand Ninjas vs Blade, Galen, Ninjak and Agent Venom (once he's done with any gas)? I don't see that ending well. This is while baring in mind that their numbers have been thinned by Prime:

Blade - Has a Spider-Sense, Promethium Armour, and a Predator helmet letting him see in many different forms including ultra light, heat, sonar, x-ray. That along with his superhuman abilities and sheer skill should be enough to suggest he can defeat your Hand Ninjas. I could argue that he would solo them, considering he goes up against Vampires that are his physical equal routinely and defeats them.

Galen Marek - His force pushing, electricity and slamming, as well as his reaction speed and lightsaber skills are enough to suggest Hand Ninjas would mean nothing to him.

Ninjak - He was killing Ninjas as a teenager, and has the skill feats to suggest he can deal with them. Not only that, but he has a battle computer, super-speed, invisibility, Adamantium weapons and Vibranium Mesh armour. He could very easily solo every single one of those Ninjas in 15 seconds if being generous.

Agent Venom - Due to his strength, healing, durability along with his reactions and other symbiote powers he should have no problem whatsoever.

Your entire argument is predicated upon a what if, which I have already explained.

I'm the one attacking, you're the one defending.

Simply not attacking for 5-10 mins in the beginning isn't against the rules.

Yeah this is what I don't get. How are they going through the route of the red arrows? There are two walls in their way. Maybe if @captaindoeo could shed some light on how high the walls are, or if they're even able to be climbed over, we can judge your strategy better.

I'm not entirely sure how tall the wall is or what it is composed of.

Two of my team members have superhuman strength and adamantium weapons. I don't think it would be that difficult for them to accomplish what I'm asking for. Even scaling walls shouldn't be difficult for them, given that they all have ninja training.

But yeah, even if you do manage to go over that way, it'll basically be your guys vs mine in a 5v5, potentially 4v4 to begin with, with Daken fighting Liberty Prime and Agent Venom absorbing poison.

I really don't think Daken is going to take that long with Liberty Prime.

And fair enough about Land Mines, but I think it's fair game to say anyone without any special kind of regeneration or durability resistant to explosives that powerful will have quite a bit of healing to do.

Several of my teammates have superhuman durability, in addition to a healing factor, so any damage they will take would be minor, and will be healed in a few moments.

Daken has survived a whole building exploding, with the flesh ripped off his bones, and he just walked out no problem.

Gorgon has taken an attack from Quake (i.e. Daisy Johnson), who can liquidize people's innards with minimal effort. This was after he reacted to speed blitz and cut off Yo-Yo's arms.

And I have already shown the explosion Mr. Negative tanked with no injury.

Sensing is one thing - reacting is another.

You ain't killin nuttin'

The great thing about telepathy is that I can read all your moves before you do them.

Both Gorgon and Mister X employ this ability when in combat.

Mister Negative is capable of keeping up with Spider-Man, who has insane reaction time himself.

Evidence that Godkiller actually nullifies healing factors?

I explained this in my prior post, but I don't think I was very clear. So I apologize.

In a flashback, it was revealed that the Kraken gave him the Godkiller sword. Tomi also states that he has tried killing himself numerous of times after murdering his family, but failed.

So we know for a fact that Tomi has a healing factor and that he has tried to kill himself many times, but could not.

However, later on, he was fully capable of committing suicide in front of the Hand to prove his loyalty.

Now this shouldn't be possible because of his healing factor, which would prevent him from dying in the first place.

The only way this is possible is that the Godkiller, which he received earlier from the Kaken, actually negates healing healing factor.

This isn't as far fetched as it sounds, since gods tend to have a healing factor themselves.

Another instance that shows that the Godkiller has that capability is when he uses it to kill Wolverine. We know Wolverine died because he was resurrected by the Hand and brainwashed.

Wolverine says to himself, "Get Up. Heal, You Little Runt. Heal," implying that his healing factor wasn't working properly.

You can also see in the scan above that the Gorgon was wielding a blue sword, which is the exact same color as the Godkiller when Kraken gave it to him.

Why does Daken have shards of the Muramasa blade?

Daken had shards of the Muramasa blade for a time after the sword broke.

He had it implanted by the Tinkerer.

How does Ian Nottingham decapping an Angel I know nothing about = healing factor negating sword.

The Angelus is one of the two fundamental forces of the universe in the Top Cow universe. It is the polar opposite of the Darkness and represents order.

Being an abstract, so to speak, it is very difficult to kill them and slicing their heads off usually doesn't amount to much, but Ian was capable of keeping the Angelus' host permanently dead.

I also showed him killing Finnegan, who was the wielder of the glacier stone, which turns its host into an ice golem similar to Ice-Man. If the same were to happen with a regular sword, he wouldn't have died. But being stabbed by the Blood Sword completely killed him.

The Blood Sword is capable of this due its unnatural origin, which is very similar to the Muramasa Blade.

I apologize if it seems like I'm nitpicking, but you suddenly having three people on your team who can negate healing factors, when I have a team full of people with healing factors, seems too good to be true. You haven't shown Godkiller negating a healing factor. Nor have you shown why shards of muramasa are part of Dakens standard gear. Nor have you shown anything to suggest that decapping that angel = healing factor negation.

It's understandable. You should always question something you don't know. I will do my best to answer your questions.

And extra on the Daken thing - how would he know to bring Muramasa shards if he knows nothing about my team? Seems out of character.

The Muramasa shards were fused to the claws on his lower wrists. So it's not out of character, since he's always carrying them.

He had them removed when Wolverine defeated him using the remaining piece of the Muramasa blade.

However, for this tournament I stated to be using Daken with his Muramasa implants.

I also have Adamantium weapons on my team, as well as others ways of offence.

The problem lies in the fact that I can counter your regeneration, while you can't negate mines.

I don't understand this one at all. How can someone on my team essentially having perfect precog be negated by mind reading? They'll read Ninjaks mind, and see themselves performing millions of different moves. So what? It doesn't mean they can act differently. In fact, the Battle Computer essentially tells Ninjak that they have telepathy, so it would account for every action they would take even while incorporating telepathy.

Regis was able to beat Midnighter in the Authority comics via mind reading capabilities. Irregardless on the amount of actions your battle computer can compute, you can still only do one thing.

Mister X and Gorgon would read his mind and figure out what action he is going to do, irregardless of the millions of scenarios that he ran prior in his head.

Once he thinks of moving a limb or thinks about doing something, both of them will know instantly.

In the end of the day, Ninjak has to move to accomplish something, and when he does both Mister X and Gorgon will know what he is doing.

Also, I wouldn't doubt the Gorgon's ability to process the battle computer anways, the Gorgon is a super-genius. He could speak at a few months old, made an opera at 6, became a painter at 4 and proved god was real at 13.

Said by you:

His body is also built to be able to absorb a near unlimited amount of magical energy.

Here he is absorbing the Witchblade from Sara.

False. It mentions that he can absorb energy. If you actually read the scans, he fails to absorb the Witch Blade. I don't see how a fail at energy absorption = Absorbing unlimited magical energy meaning he can absorb the Talismans.

Where exactly does it stated he failed to drain the Witchblade? He didn't drain the Witchblade in its entirety, but it's clear that he was siphoning power from it. The Witchblade states it was being "drained" and Ian Nottingham was glowing blue with energy.

Right now he has no quantifiable feats to say he can absorb the Talismans powers. No offence, but this and the thing with the healing factor negation is starting to seem like you're misinterpeting scans to give yourself useful abilities.

The 12 talismans pale in comparison to the power of the Witchblade, which is the offspring of the Darkness and the Angelus. It is one of the 13 artifacts of the Top Cow universe.

The artifacts are fully capable of destroying the universe and recreating it as well.

A simple Google search can clear up a lot of confusion on your part.

If you need me to clear up some stuff then simply ask, no need to accuse someone of lying.

..I never compared it to a Sentinel. I gave you it's durability feats from Enclave Laser Weapons, forcefields and Missile launchers, as well as it still functioning after Orbital bombardment. Daken will bust through it's legs, sure, but stating that he can completely destroy the thing in seconds is an exaggeration of Dakens abilities in this fight. If anything Daken will get caught in a few blasts.

I was comparing to a Sentinel, not you lol.

The fact of the matter is that it's really not that impressive.

Simply bypassing its weapons with Daken's super-speed and then slicing it up in the same fashion is completely reasonable strategy.

I have shown you how it's particularly unarmored in certain areas and simply stabbing it in those areas would suffice to immobilize it.

If that is not a good enough reason for you, Daken could just set off the explosives it has attached to its back and have it detonate via that.

1) Liberty Prime is going to shred through a good portion of your Hand Ninjas, and will remain on the battlefield for a long time, unless you can convince me that Daken can solo it. Seems unlikely.

2) Ninjak should be able to solo the remaining Hand Ninjas in seconds. He can also deal with any of your team mates.

1) Like I mentioned in my first post, the Hand Ninjas will arrive once the Liberty Prime robot is destroyed and Daken released his gas/pheromones everywhere.

2) Ninjak wouldn't be able to deal with anyone of my teammates, except for Ian. Telepathy trumps Battle Computer.

I provided the feat for the Rabbit Talismans speed. His snake Talisman will keep him invisible.

Yes, because invisibility is all that useful versus telepaths.....

Daken has the rabbit talisman as well, so your super speed is really a non-issue.

Gorgon has already shown reacting to speedster trying to blitz him as well.

He has Adamantium katanas/sais. He'll be able to throw his coins at an absolutely absurd speed because of the Rabbit talisman. The Battle Computer will simulate every single confrontation he goes into millions of times, as well as telling him all of his opponents physical stats and powers. There will be nothing you can surprise him with and he'll be able to react accordingly. He's wearing the Vibranium suit, which leads me to believe he can even survive a strike from Adamantium. Not that he'll be getting his anyway.

See, the problem is. You have no knowledge of even the devices you're using.

The Battle Computer is great and all, but it's effectiveness is reduced when your opponent knows what you are going to do.

You may be able to calculate millions of scenarios, but at the end of the day, you still need to do something. And when you do, my team will know what it is.

Your vibranium suit is only useful versus blunt force and helps keep you silent because it absorbs vibrations.

Strikes from adamantium blades by super-human foes would absolutely go through it with no effort.

3) Agent Venom, Blade, and Galen Marek are sufficient distractions as well as fully competent fighters on their own, nevermind Ninjak.

Agent Venom is literally a non-issue in my book. Guns and tendrils are absolutely useless against my team. He's is the weakest incarnation of Venom out there.

Daken has already shown that Venom is beneath him.

Mister Negative has shown that Anti-Venom is also beneath his notice and Anti-Venom is several times stronger than regular Venom.

Agent Venom could run through machine gun fire without getting hit, while carrying civilians. Blade has dodged machine gun fire and blocked it with a chain. Galen Marek has deflected blaster fire at close range and from dozens of stormtroopers. It's safe to say they are just as fast as any of your teammates in reactions.

Reaction time was never the issue. The issue is that your team lacks any telepathic defenses and I have telepaths. It's simple as that.

Blade and Venom have healing factors of their own, and you have no answer for Galens force abilities. Blade and Venom also have a Spider-Sense, which means they should effectively beat any of your teammates to the punch every time.

Your healing factors will be cancelled by the numerous people on my team.

Spider-senses can be bypassed.

As for Galen's tk feat. Shooting lightning at my team would do absolutely nothing and his tk has been reduced to the two ton range. You practically can't do anything useful with that.

Galen can be reduced to a drooling mess via Gorgon or have his anger turned against him via pheromones.

4) Luther Strode should absolutely annihilate anyone on your team.

- Adamantium Skeleton

- Healing factor allowing him to overcome toxins and casually survive disembowellment/knives through the neck.

- 10 Ton strength

- Higher reaction time than anyone on your team, including Daken. Advanced precog, his already insane reaction time x5. Physicals x2.

- Durable enough to survive falling from Orbit and tank 26th century tech.

So essentially, Luther and Ninjak are there for the blitz, and Luther is indestructible. The rest are already formidable opponents on their own, nevermind my other teammates.

Luther Strode would do absolutely nothing to me.

- Your adamantium skeleton is a complete non-factor to me. I don't need to rip you in half in order to kill you. Honestly, all the adamantium is doing is weighing you down.

- Healing factor can be countered.

- Strength is completely irrelevant in this fight.

- Daken doesn't even have the best reaction time on my team. Precognition is useless versus telepathy.

- Adamantium can cut through basically anything. Everything you're saying is basically fluff at this point.

You honestly haven't said much that my team couldn't counter with minimal effort.

5) Frag mines will force your injured teammates to retreat and regenerate, leaving them open.

Yes, because frag mines are that effective versus my team. Half of my team can tank explosions of greater magnitude with no issue and all of them can regenerate exceptionally well.

In Conclusion

Despite all your attempts to build a perfect team, you completely forgot about telepathy which would prove to be your downfall.

Gorgon can keep up with any person on your team and coupled with his telepathy, he would own any of your teammates.

Mister Negative can corrupt anyone via touch and that includes your teammates as well.

Venom is basically a non-factor in this battle. His only asset, his regeneration, would be countered without any problems. Daken would easily kill him with zero efforts.

Luthor Strode can be occupied in the mean time via my rat talisman which would animate his armor. So basically he would be fighting within an armor that has its own mind.

Galen Marek's telekinesis could prove problematic for my team, but given that his mind is very fragile, it can be completely manipulated via pheromones and fear gas.

Ninjak's battle computer can be completely bypassed via telepathy and so he could be dealt with by Gorgon.

Blade is a complete non-issue in this battle. He's completely worthless honestly. Move reading, coupled with a healing factor, will allow Mister X to hold off Blade.

Your team will also have to deal with an immortal ninja army (well 14, plus Bob). But since they have a healing factors now, simply cutting them down and shooting them won't cut it.

#16 Edited by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttal

Perhaps you're mistaken about something. I'm the one instigating the attack. You're defending and I'm attacking. My prep is merely readying myself for battle. Everything I just said would literally take no more than 10 minutes to accomplish.

Being the invader, I'm afforded the luxury of attacking when I'm readying since if I don't start, nothing will happen.

Right, but if that was actually the case, you'd be allotted prep time. You weren't. The fact you weren't given any is an indicator that aren't meant to make any preparations, you were simply meant to attack the fort.

@captaindoeo is my opponents team allowed to stall as long as they want before attacking? o.O

My Hand Ninjas are not going to go in until Liberty Prime goes down.

Given that Daken has adamantium claws and super-speed it's a matter of slicing it up into chunks and leaving it inoperable.

It would be absolutely silly for me to send my Hand Ninjas in just to die.

Also, my enhancements are still in. Mr. Negative can corrupt through touch and it only takes moments. He has done this to Eddie Brock, Aunt May, Peter Parker, Shang-Chi, and a bunch of no-name super-villains.

I see, so because I essentially convinced you that your Hand Ninjas would die as soon as they entered, you've changed it so they wait for Daken to defeat Liberty Prime. That tactic doesn't come without it's disadvantages.

If your plan is to wait for Daken to miraculously solo Liberty Prime, then Ninjak, with battle computer and the rest of his tech, should be able to eviscerate Daken while he attacks the robot. I've talked plenty already about Ninjaks abilities, so if you want to argue that Daken would have a shred of a chance against Ninjak in this situation, refer back to the above posts. And remember, your plan was to send in Daken alone, so you've put him in a 1v1 situation with Ninjak.

As for Prime, there's a few reasons it's really not as simple as you say it is. He was blown up by an Orbital warhead, and the parts of him still connected to his CPU still functioned. So unless you're implying Daken could do as much damage as Orbital Bombardment then I think you're exaggerating a lot. Also, Daken is about the size of Primes foot. So how is he going to magically climb up Liberty Prime and cut him apart when he can easily be kicked off or blasted?

Okay, well while you stall the fight (which I don't even think is allowed), Daken will be eviscerated by Ninjak and Prime.

Pheromones isn't poisonous. Also, your scan doesn't prove he can absorb all the gas being released. From what I can understand of it, he's absorbing the gas within his immediate vicinity.

Your scan doesn't suggest he can absorb all the gas being released.

Daken has super-speed, he's going to be releasing it throughout your base, not in one location.

Well explain what Pheromones are then? Venoms basically able to absorb harmful substances.

Right, so Daken, before miraculously soloing Liberty Prime, is going to drop gas all around my team mates who he magically knows the exact location of? Sweet. Ninjak will be waiting with them, ready to annihilate Daken. So now we have one dead Daken, pin stripped to the ground with coins and decapitated to boot.

And everyone else simply holds their breath while Agent Venom goes around absorbing the gas, which shouldn't take long considering his travel speed.

Once again, it takes no more than a few moments for Mr. Negative to 'corrupt' people. All it takes is a touch from him and people become infected. I have shown scans of this above.

Unless your team is all standing next to Agent Venom, the gas being released will affect the people not within the immediate vicinity of Flash.

The Robot's durability is completely worthless vs Daken's adamantium.

It would be an entirely different matter if the thing he was fighting was extremely dense and extremely thick (like a sentinel or the Hulk), but as the pics above show. The machine is really thin at certain parts. Parts that Daken would use to his utmost advantage.

Okay, go ahead and let him corrupt people. Makes no difference to my team in the long run.

..why wouldn't they be standing near him? He absorbs the gas all around them, then moves on and clears the whole area. Plus, until you address Daken being able to cope with Ninjak in a 1v1, I think it's fair game to say he wouldn't even have time to drop all the gas with Ninjak attacking him.

Robots durability doesn't matter now, considering you've given Daken a death sentence.

I say we get off the robot subject for now to save space.

Your entire argument is predicated upon a what if, which I have already explained.

I'm the one attacking, you're the one defending.

Simply not attacking for 5-10 mins in the beginning isn't against the rules.

Okay, but everything I said is still evidence enough to suggest the Hand Ninjas can't take anyone on my team, enhanced or not. While Ninjak fights Daken my team could easily handle them. Having said that, that's actually Liberty Primes job!

I'm not entirely sure how tall the wall is or what it is composed of.

Two of my team members have superhuman strength and adamantium weapons. I don't think it would be that difficult for them to accomplish what I'm asking for. Even scaling walls shouldn't be difficult for them, given that they all have ninja training.

Okay, let's go with your team mates climbing the wall and running head first into Luther, and likely my other team mates.

And yeah okay, I'll concede on the frag mines won't do much point. Still, not much of an issue.

The great thing about telepathy is that I can read all your moves before you do them.

Both Gorgon and Mister X employ this ability when in combat.

Mister Negative is capable of keeping up with Spider-Man, who has insane reaction time himself.

They can read the moves, but they can't react to them. Ninjak will be going at much higher speeds than Gorgon and Mister X, and Battle Computer > Spider-Sense.

We both know how fast the Rabbit Talisman makes our characters. So convince me that anyone aside from Daken (who has no telepathy to help him), has ANY chance to keep up with Ninjak, otherwise there's nothing more to discuss. Ninjak with Battle Computer and Rabbit Talisman is too fast offensively and defensively to be beaten by anyone on your team. Adding in his gear, and the other FOUR team mates, and it's overkill.

Actually, I'm going to cut my rebuttal right there.

Right now, the way this is turning out, it's going to end up your team in a fight against mine one way or another.

So, based on your initial strategy with Daken, I'm going to open a topic of debate to get it out the way:

Ninjak vs Daken

You've sent Daken in alone to poison my team. Ninjak won't sit around and let it happen. One way or another, these two will inevitably fight. So let's discuss who would win.

Ninjak is moving at the same speed as Daken. He's equipped with Adamantium weapons, vibranium armor and a Battle Computer. His superior reactions, durability and weaponry should easily secure a win over Daken. I've also been forgetting to mention that Ninjak is invisible during all of this. So that's another thing Daken has to deal with.

Next, let's open up the topic of Your team vs mine

Team vs Team

Blade

Blade had comparable reaction feats to all of your team members if I recall correctly. He should have no problem beating any of them to the punch given his spider-sense. Before you hit me with "telepathy winz", I don't see that helping. Spider-Sense reactions are last minute danger warnings allowing Blade to keep on his toes completely, so even being able to read his moves won't help when he counters yours. He's also wearing Deathstrokes Promethium, which will be durable enough in conjunction with his healing factor and durability to last against your teams weapons.

Agent Venom

Spider-Sense. Can web up your teammates. Superior speed. Bladed gauntlets. Tendrils that can suffocate your teammates. Healing factor. Game set and match.

Galen Marek

Force lightning. Force push. Force slam. His lightsaber should cut any of your teammates in half while incapacitated from Force attacks.

LutherStrode

All around team buster. Take his original feats of reaction speed and multiply them by 5. That's how fast he is in this fight. He'll also be throwing punches with a strength level of 10 tons, enough to seriously injure anyone on your team. He's got Master Chiefs armour and shields, an adamantium skeleton, solid muscle tissue, and a healing factor. It'll take something special to really get through to Luther. Not that'll be able to touch him anyway. Also, precog.

Ninjak

Tell me one good reason Ninjak isn't too fast for your team members? Especially if he just spams shrukien/coins. Also, Battle Computer, invisible, vibranium..

#17 Edited by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: And btw, I sussed out that you tailor-made your team to beat mine. Nice tactic, but it won't help.

#18 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

Rebuttal

Right, but if that was actually the case, you'd be allotted prep time. You weren't. The fact you weren't given any is an indicator that aren't meant to make any preparations, you were simply meant to attack the fort.

@captaindoeo is my opponents team allowed to stall as long as they want before attacking? o.O

My objective is to destroy the vault and kill your team. Is getting my team acquainted with each other and having Mr. Negative touch everyone really that much of prep?

Like I keep saying it would take no more than a couple of minutes.

I see, so because I essentially convinced you that your Hand Ninjas would die as soon as they entered, you've changed it so they wait for Daken to defeat Liberty Prime. That tactic doesn't come without it's disadvantages.

Convinced me? My plan since the beginning was to wait till Daken took out the robot and spread the gas.

It was stated that way since my first post. Nothing has changed.

If your plan is to wait for Daken to miraculously solo Liberty Prime, then Ninjak, with battle computer and the rest of his tech, should be able to eviscerate Daken while he attacks the robot. I've talked plenty already about Ninjaks abilities, so if you want to argue that Daken would have a shred of a chance against Ninjak in this situation, refer back to the above posts. And remember, your plan was to send in Daken alone, so you've put him in a 1v1 situation with Ninjak.

My whole team is telepathically connected via Gorgon. We are in constant communication. So once he senses Ninjak, he will tell my teammates via mental communication. Honestly, Daken can stall at this point since your only asset is wasting his time trying to kill someone who's basically immortal.

As for Prime, there's a few reasons it's really not as simple as you say it is. He was blown up by an Orbital warhead, and the parts of him still connected to his CPU still functioned. So unless you're implying Daken could do as much damage as Orbital Bombardment then I think you're exaggerating a lot. Also, Daken is about the size of Primes foot. So how is he going to magically climb up Liberty Prime and cut him apart when he can easily be kicked off or blasted?

Super-speed helps alot. Your video did not show that Liberty Prime could comprehend anything moving at insane speeds, let alone counter it. Your only crutch is that it was destroyed by an orbital bombardment, when it was even't that strong. Honestly the guys were standing no more than 50 ft away and didn't even have a single scratch. By that logic, Hulk shouldn't have so much trouble with Wolverine, since he can survive a hell a lot more punishment than that.

A person who can move at super speeds armed with claws that can cut through anything would make scrap metal of a giant lumbering robot.

It's pretty simple.

Okay, well while you stall the fight (which I don't even think is allowed), Daken will be eviscerated by Ninjak and Prime.

Yes, because taking a couple of mins to get my team acquainted and their gear ready is really "stalling".*Eye Roll*

Well explain what Pheromones are then? Venoms basically able to absorb harmful substances.

I'm not going to waste time explaining what pheromones are when a simple Google search would supply you with the necessary answers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheromone

Daken's pheromones have affected Skaar, Wolverine, Deadpool, Ares, Thing, etc.

It's not poison. It's a natural chemical response in the body.

Right, so Daken, before miraculously soloing Liberty Prime, is going to drop gas all around my team mates who he magically knows the exact location of? Sweet. Ninjak will be waiting with them, ready to annihilate Daken. So now we have one dead Daken, pin stripped to the ground with coins and decapitated to boot.

Liberty Prime is bad knock off Iron Giant. It will be destroyed easily. I have shown you that it has weak spots.

Why would Daken need to know where your team is? He has super-speed. A fact that you seem keen on ignoring.

You really seriously think you can pin strip and decapitate someone with an adamantium skeleton?

And everyone else simply holds their breath while Agent Venom goes around absorbing the gas, which shouldn't take long considering his travel speed.

Yes, because you really need to breathe in pheromones in order for it to be effective...

Good luck having your team hold their breathe, while fighting my team, waiting for Agent Venom to play medic.

He probably be decapitated by Gorgon, while he's hopping around.

Okay, go ahead and let him corrupt people. Makes no difference to my team in the long run.

Wait, what? So having your whole team turned into mindless pawns of Mister Negative doesn't affect your team in the long run?

..why wouldn't they be standing near him? He absorbs the gas all around them, then moves on and clears the whole area. Plus, until you address Daken being able to cope with Ninjak in a 1v1, I think it's fair game to say he wouldn't even have time to drop all the gas with Ninjak attacking him.

Releasing pheromones require nothing more than a thought for Daken. He wouldn't be able to release the gas, but having pheromones floating around affecting your team's perceptions and feelings probably wouldn't help them.

Honestly, I think Daken could probably make Ninjak have sex with him, since his pheromones have done this to numerous people of both sexes.

Okay, but everything I said is still evidence enough to suggest the Hand Ninjas can't take anyone on my team, enhanced or not. While Ninjak fights Daken my team could easily handle them. Having said that, that's actually Liberty Primes job!

My Ninjas were never there to kill your team, they are there to act as meat shields. Your team will be constantly trying to fight an army of ninjas that don't die, while trying to defeat my actual team.

They might get in a lucky strike or two when your team is distracted by mines, but overall their usefulness lies in their ability to distract your team's attention.

Okay, let's go with your team mates climbing the wall and running head first into Luther, and likely my other team mates.

Once again, my teams have two telepaths. You really expect telepaths to walk into a trap, when they can sense the minds of people around them?

Honestly, Gorgon could probably mind rape a person at a distance, given that none of your team members have telepathic defenses.

They can read the moves, but they can't react to them. Ninjak will be going at much higher speeds than Gorgon and Mister X, and Battle Computer > Spider-Sense.

Gorgon is an actual telepath, not just a move reader. So mind raping, mind shut down, etc. are still options on the table.

Also, Gorgon has fast enough reflexes to compensate. He already reacted to a speedster trying to speed blitz him and his back was turn when he did it too.

We both know how fast the Rabbit Talisman makes our characters. So convince me that anyone aside from Daken (who has no telepathy to help him), has ANY chance to keep up with Ninjak, otherwise there's nothing more to discuss. Ninjak with Battle Computer and Rabbit Talisman is too fast offensively and defensively to be beaten by anyone on your team. Adding in his gear, and the other FOUR team mates, and it's overkill.

Last time I remember Ninjak was busy trying to keep Daken from dismantling your stupid robot. You can sit there and keep spouting on Ninjak is super fast and ignore the fact that the Gorgon has reacted to a speedster in the past and has shown reflexes fast enough to compensate.

Mister X would have trouble with Ninjak, but given that he won't be fighting him. I fail to see the danger he's supposed to pose.

You've sent Daken in alone to poison my team. Ninjak won't sit around and let it happen. One way or another, these two will inevitably fight. So let's discuss who would win.

Believing that Daken actually needs to engage Ninjak the moment they meet is your first error.

Ninjak is moving at the same speed as Daken. He's equipped with Adamantium weapons, vibranium armor and a Battle Computer. His superior reactions, durability and weaponry should easily secure a win over Daken. I've also been forgetting to mention that Ninjak is invisible during all of this. So that's another thing Daken has to deal with.

Ninjak has superior durability? Talk about funny.

Daken has a healing factor, adamantium bones, and is naturally durable, having tanked a hit from an enraged Thing and having an Ax struck into his chest by Ares.

Yeah, Ninjak could probably beat Daken in a fair fight, but given that Daken doesn't fight fair ever. It really doesn't matter.

Daken will run around wasting his time, releasing his pheromones as Ninjak tries to tag him.

Any damage he does take will be healed. With the Ring of Free Movement, his running cannot be impeded.

Blade

Blade had comparable reaction feats to all of your team members if I recall correctly. He should have no problem beating any of them to the punch given his spider-sense. Before you hit me with "telepathy winz", I don't see that helping. Spider-Sense reactions are last minute danger warnings allowing Blade to keep on his toes completely, so even being able to read his moves won't help when he counters yours. He's also wearing Deathstrokes Promethium, which will be durable enough in conjunction with his healing factor and durability to last against your teams weapons.

Blade does not have the reflexes comparable to my team. This is the guy who had trouble with Wolverine during Civil War.

Mister X will have him beat in no time.

Agent Venom

Spider-Sense. Can web up your teammates. Superior speed. Bladed gauntlets. Tendrils that can suffocate your teammates. Healing factor. Game set and match.

Ian Nottingham will take him on. Since he has experience fighting the Witchblade, which can do everything Flash can do, but better. He will have no problems handling him in this battle. He might not be able to kill him due to his power set, but he will stall long enough for my other team members to help once they kill their opponents.

Galen Marek

Force lightning. Force push. Force slam. His lightsaber should cut any of your teammates in half while incapacitated from Force attacks.

Let's not get into a debate on whether or not a lightsaber can cut through adamantium because there are metals that are lightsaber resistant in the Star Wars universe.

Gorgon will take everything he got and then some. Afterwards he will decapitate him.

LutherStrode

All around team buster. Take his original feats of reaction speed and multiply them by 5. That's how fast he is in this fight. He'll also be throwing punches with a strength level of 10 tons, enough to seriously injure anyone on your team. He's got Master Chiefs armour and shields, an adamantium skeleton, solid muscle tissue, and a healing factor. It'll take something special to really get through to Luther. Not that'll be able to touch him anyway. Also, precog.

I will have Mister Negative stall him for the time. He's durable enough to take his hits with no problems.

Ninjak

Tell me one good reason Ninjak isn't too fast for your team members? Especially if he just spams shrukien/coins. Also, Battle Computer, invisible, vibranium.

Telepathy.

Discrepancies

Okay, this is where I will be listing some issues I'm having with your equipment that I noticed as I was reading through the thread.

1) Where are you getting the vibranium mesh from? Your perks only allow for either an adamantium skeleton or a vibranium mesh suit. Not both. So you need to address that point.

2) Your equipment states Promethium Battle armor, yet you posted scans of Slade's Nth Metal Armor. His Promethium armor is not that durable at all, it has been penetrated by high caliber bullets and Beast Boy's claws. So please address this issue as well.

3) Where are you getting your battle computer from? I was looking over the equipment list on the tournament page and the Battle Computer is not even listed as a buy-able perk.

4) @captaindoeo I have a question. The OP says I have 28 Hand Ninjas, even I thought I thought I had 14. Did I miscalculate how many points for each Hand Ninja?

In Conclusion

Daken will keep Ninjak occupied by running around and messing with his chemical levels via pheromones.

Blade will be owned by Mister X. The feats I provided should prove why. He simply outclasses Blade in the skill and reflex department.

Agent Venom will prove difficult for Ian to tag, but Flash shouldn't be able to tag Ian either. Ian has experience fighting Venom's power set, so he will be able to keep up for a while.

Galen is going to get owned by Gorgon. Galen's mind is so fractured due to his upbringing and inherent struggle between good and evil that Tomi's telepathy should be able to make mush out of it in no time. Any damage he does sustain during the battle can easily be healed up via his healing factor.

Luthor Strode will be occupied by Mister Negative. Mister Negative has shown that he can take hits from heavy weights without a scratch and he's pretty skilled himself. Also, if Negative manages to touch Luthor, then his corruption powers will possess him.

#19 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

And btw, I sussed out that you tailor-made your team to beat mine. Nice tactic, but it won't help.

Don't be so conceited now.

#20 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Sorry it took me a minute. :P

Guys, that isn't a wall, that's a bay, basically. Like, water. Haha. And he is allowed to fight however he likes. He could wait and stall for an hour, but remember, however long it takes him to do all his stuff, that's time you can do stuff.

#21 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@captaindoeo:

Also, do you mind clearing up another issue I have?

Do I have 14 or 28 Hand Ninjas?

#22 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: This debate has gotten pretty far down the line, and we've both given our piece. At this point there's no solid way to debate something. You say Daken attacks Liberty Prime and drops gas, I counter, you say Daken runs around stalling instead of the former strategy, I counter, you think of another scenario which would involve Daken not dying despite the paragraphs I've thrown at you of Ninjaks abilities. It'll go in circles. Besides, there are little details you forget to address in your replies such as Blade having a spider-sense.

We've both dropped character feats and talked about gear so lets go to voting.

@captaindoeo

#24 Posted by i_like_swords (16672 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@captaindoeo: *cough open votes cough*

We can open this for votes if you want. Just got back from the wedding.