Byakuya vs Ulquiorra

Ulquiorra

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Warlock12: You didn't even need to explain all of that Current Byakuya STOMPS Ulquiorra like there is no tomorow

??? what makes you so sure? he got owned badly by the quincies. Though I admit that they stole his ban kai, but it's like.. doesn't he realise his ban kai, if stolen, could cause problems for others? This isn't like the cool Byakuya we knew once..

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Yup you do Yama's bankai reveal was amazing. Kenpachi, Renji, Toshiro, Byakuya and everyone has been training for the past year so that they all single handledly could beat Aizen alone

I wonder how can they seem so proud after failing so miserable in their training.. That's the spirit! :D

Yama's Bank kai was awesome. No arguments here.

well if Bleach is a DBZ clone/YuYu clone like everyone claims it to be then the simple logic behind it is each new enemy will be stronger than the last and lets not forget the fact that they've stolen almost just about everyone's bankai. It also shows that the Quincies did their prep right. If Kubo wasn't such a troll we'd have at least had had the chance to get some feats before leaving the guy bloodied and bruised.

It's not that their training failed, it's the fact that not only were they completely blind sided by enemies they thought were extinct but they fought against enemies who were completely prepared for them and sealed their strongest attacks away before using it against them

Well, bleach isn't really a Dbz clone.. Do you think any of the villians that came after aizen were stronger than him? No. Except for Juha Bach, possibly.. They didn't take his kido etc away.. and even in fillers, he did better against his blade..

What I was saying about the training is, they have gotten stronger. But if Aizen attacks them, he'd still obliterate any of them with ease..

@renobjc said:

@redbird3rdboywonder: Well I'm not a fan of Sasuke but his powers were pretty much hinted at since the beginning of the introduction of the Uchiha Clan. I don't think his powers come out of nowhere. The only reason why i would seek to hate Sasuke is that his vice is a weak one. His brother already told him to stop hating the leaf village yet he continues to try to seek revenge on behalf of Itachi. This would lead to his substantial power gains.

While Sasuke isn't perfect, at least he's a deep rooted character with not-necessarily relatable problems but he fits the description of a tragic hero perfectly as well as him being the Antithesis to Naruto, making him an extremely well-designed nemesis for Naruto. While Naruto is like Bleach in that they both don't have much of a plan going on, at least Naruto covers up fairly nicely. Like Obito being Tobi. The introduction of Obito expands Kakashi's character as well as expand the story line later on in a not-so-random way.

I agree with much of what you said except for that Ichigo is not a terrible main character. He is literally the worst main character I have ever encountered in any of my graphic novel readings, except for maybe Korra. She's probably worse.

@redbird3rdboywonder: I would love a bunch of fillers of them expanding their emotional spectrums instead of just them killing other beings with as little emotions as they have repeatedly.

Saskue's powers really do come out of nowhere much like Ichigo's except unlike Saskue, Ichigo's power doesn't really have a basis. Think about it all of the upgrades to the Sharingan have been for the sake of making Saskue stronger since Shippuden began.Naruto doesn't cover it up nicely at all, it's evident in just about every chapter even the current one. Obito's introduction was not planned at all you can tell by how many much it contradicts much of the story already established before. Anyway what's wrong with Korra, not that i like her or anything.

I agree with the second part

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@redbird3rdboywonder: Aizen would beat Byakuya even before his upgrade. He was able to hold Ichigo's sword with two fingers and nearly cut Ichigo in half with one swing of his sword, commenting that only his spine was keeping him together. He was able to beat Hitsugaya in bankai form with one slash. Effortlessly broke Renji's shikai with his hands. His kido was strong enough take down Komamura, despite it being a third of its full strength. His knowledge of kido was good enough to rivals Tessai, who was the head of the Kido Corps at the time. Not to mention, his overpowered absolute hypnosis would help alot.

Also, Aizen didn't use his sword's abilities on Juhabach. He lost his sword before he was sealed. It is uncertain how he was able to manipulate time when he was speaking to Juhabach. It could be some sort of kido or perhaps an ability he possesses innately from his exposure to the Hogokyu.

i doubt it. Aizen is virtually featless without any upgrades from the Hogoyoku and all of the examples you are naming are from when he'd already been exposed to it's powers so trying to say that is wrong IMO. Also i don't think we'll ever find out how he altered Juhabach's perception of time

@redbird3rdboywonder: None of those were when he was exposed to the Hogokyu. The Hogokyu was still within Rukia sealed by Urahara. He didn't get it until afterwards and even then he didn't have the ability to use it until Orihime used her powers to undo an additional seal by Urahara. Orihime was needed because her reject ability was the only thing that could undo the seal. I don't know where you getting this idea about him having the Hogokyu before hand. He did create one, but Aizen already admitted that he needed to combine it with Urahara's to make a perfect one.

The Bleach mentality: I could easily kill you now. Nah, I'll leave you alive so you can come back and kick my ass later on. :P Its like duh...

Whats up with all the Aizen hate nowadays? Even before he gained the abillity to actually use the Hogyaku he was stated to be one of he strongest shinigami with skills that rivaled Yamaji. He doesn't have as much feats as other characters but neither did Yamaji. Did that make anyone second guess his power?

@UltimateHero0406 said:

The Bleach mentality: I could easily kill you now. Nah, I'll leave you alive so you can come back and kick my ass later on. :P Its like duh...

lol :)

Byakuya is one of my top favourite characters in Bleach but he will lose to Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra`s raw power alone is way too much, and Ichigo was killed by Ulquiorra. He only prevailed through the revival of transformation in which he became his Hollow self as his will to protect Orihime overcame that of Ulquiorra.

@redbird3rdboywonder: Ok well think about it relative to everything else. If Uchiha Madara was able to fight the first hokage, the strongest ninja of his era, then the secrets to the power of the sharing an must not revealed yet and i think this is indicated quite early in the series. Another is the introduction of Itachi's mangekyo (I'm fairly certain i spelt it wrong). If his eyes were bleeding after a use of them, then there is obviously something seriously wrong with it, hence, an improvement could have been made but Sasuke lived. Sasuke's only ability is the ability to use the mangekyo Sharingan. Arguably, he's not even very strong in comparison to other people in Naruto.

Naruto covers it up much worse than Sasuke, i would have to argue. Not only can he channel the essence of the Nine-tailed Fox but he has also shown the ability to use the 4th hokage's abilities. Where the hell did that come from? I think that was pretty stupid. And not to mention that he basically has every tailed animal at his disposal now.

Well when you read a story, you have to have an assumption in your mind that everything in the story happens for a reason as well albeit maybe ambiguous. The little filler with Kakashi and the 4th hokage, Rin, and Obito. Their introduction must have had some sort of relevance to the story because it foreshadows. The underlying reason was to show Kakashi's emotions as well as introduce his loved ones. This Ninja war is much an emotion-based war. Everyone is fighting a dead loved one, yet Kakashi is simply by himself. Even the most mysterious of characters like Sai had emotional cuts except Kakashi, even after his filler, is still alone. Even with all the comrades he has touched, he is still alone. To pit Obito with/against Kakashi again is a very gutsy but very well-planed move.

To reintroduce Obito, I don't think it was a bad move, albeit fairly predictable, but not poorly done at all. It doesn't contradict much with the story, I'd have to say. I mean there wasn't so much a hint but Tobi's attitude was certainly very similar to Obito's.

Well simply put, Korra is an asshole. She will never be able to have emotional breakthroughs, never have story development, and never get any stronger because she is already at her peek. She's disrespectful, uncompassionate, and selfish. She thinks shes above the law and I don't like the fact that I'm watching a show about teenage angst when I so enjoyed Aang's adventures.

@redbird3rdboywonder:

To say the least, we know his kido prowess. We know he can cast 90 level kido chantlessly(at the cost of 2/3 of its power.) We know he can set up kido barriers strong enough to block slashes from Ichigo and Shunsui.

We don't know whether the hogyoku augmented everything from the beginning of the fight or not. There was never a need for it to be used until Isshin slashed him, so we don't know if it did in fact play a role the entire time he was there. At the very end of Decide 2, Aizen mentions how it had decided to finally accept him. So, from this, I think it's fair to say it played little to no role in the entire course of the fights. In the time before its reveal, we see him destroy Komamura's bankai and Love's shikai. He showed himself capable of countering and effectively using their own zanpaktou against themselves. I think it's fair to say that he could thoroughly defeat Byakuya. With his shikai, he definitely will.

And the thing about Aizen is that anything he does can be passed off as a part of Kyoka Suigetsu. For the most part, unless explicitly shown as part of an illusion, it should be seen as a feat.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: If he'd already created a Hogoyoku then that would mean he'd already been exposed to it's power even if it was imperfect/not combined with Uraharas beforehand, which would exactly support my statement of him having been exposed to some of it's power beforehand. Though this is insight on my part

@*Void*: That's BS show me where it said Aizen was equal to Yama in power. If that had been the case Aizen wouldn't have needed Wonderweiss to seal his power away and would also contradict Ichigo's statement that Aizen was just looking for a rival. That would also put Aizen above Restu, Shinsui, and Jashiro which is way to high.

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: If he'd already created a Hogoyoku then that would mean he'd already been exposed to it's power even if it was imperfect/not combined with Uraharas beforehand, which would exactly support my statement of him having been exposed to some of it's power beforehand. Though this is insight on my part

@*Void*: That's BS show me where it said Aizen was equal to Yama in power. If that had been the case Aizen wouldn't have needed Wonderweiss to seal his power away and would also contradict Ichigo's statement that Aizen was just looking for a rival. That would also put Aizen above Restu, Shinsui, and Jashiro which is way to high.

Stat wise they were equal. If Yamamato was stronger he wouldn't have had to use a move that would kill himself in the process. Aizen himself said that Ryujinn jakka was probably more powerful than him, so just as Yamaji removed Kyoka Suigetsu from the fight (because if he didnt he would trolled to death) so did Aizen. What makes Aizen better than everyone else is not his raw power but his intellect. He is basically Batman, Reed Richards and Thanos all rolled into one.

@*Void* said:

Stat wise they were equal. If Yamamato was stronger he wouldn't have had to use a move that would kill himself in the process. Aizen himself said that Ryujinn jakka was probably more powerful than him, so just as Yamaji removed Kyoka Suigetsu from the fight (because if he didnt he would trolled to death) so did Aizen. What makes Aizen better than everyone else is not his raw power but his intellect. He is basically Batman, Reed Richards and Thanos all rolled into one.

Yup, he's definitely more intelligent than the old man.. but raw power/stats.. cc>aizen, Imo

@PrinceAragorn1: The main reason why I say they are equal stat wise is because the data book has them as equals. To me the only thing Yamaji had over Aizen was raw power and the only thing Aizen had over Yamaji was intelligence.

@*Void* said:

@PrinceAragorn1: The main reason why I say they are equal stat wise is because the data book has them as equals. To me the only thing Yamaji had over Aizen was raw power and the only thing Aizen had over Yamaji was intelligence.

I see.

@*Void* said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: If he'd already created a Hogoyoku then that would mean he'd already been exposed to it's power even if it was imperfect/not combined with Uraharas beforehand, which would exactly support my statement of him having been exposed to some of it's power beforehand. Though this is insight on my part

@*Void*: That's BS show me where it said Aizen was equal to Yama in power. If that had been the case Aizen wouldn't have needed Wonderweiss to seal his power away and would also contradict Ichigo's statement that Aizen was just looking for a rival. That would also put Aizen above Restu, Shinsui, and Jashiro which is way to high.

Stat wise they were equal. If Yamamato was stronger he wouldn't have had to use a move that would kill himself in the process. Aizen himself said that Ryujinn jakka was probably more powerful than him, so just as Yamaji removed Kyoka Suigetsu from the fight (because if he didnt he would trolled to death) so did Aizen. What makes Aizen better than everyone else is not his raw power but his intellect. He is basically Batman, Reed Richards and Thanos all rolled into one.

Stat wise they should be as far from equal as can be especially with Yama's recent Bankai reveal, we know for a fact their stats shouldn't be equal. Also Yama couldn't be trolled to death with Kyoka Suigestu since he'd already been under it's affects and IIRC Aizen broke the illusion around it but the last part I agree with

@OblivionKnight said:

@redbird3rdboywonder:

To say the least, we know his kido prowess. We know he can cast 90 level kido chantlessly(at the cost of 2/3 of its power.) We know he can set up kido barriers strong enough to block slashes from Ichigo and Shunsui.

We don't know whether the hogyoku augmented everything from the beginning of the fight or not. There was never a need for it to be used until Isshin slashed him, so we don't know if it did in fact play a role the entire time he was there. At the very end of Decide 2, Aizen mentions how it had decided to finally accept him. So, from this, I think it's fair to say it played little to no role in the entire course of the fights. In the time before its reveal, we see him destroy Komamura's bankai and Love's shikai. He showed himself capable of countering and effectively using their own zanpaktou against themselves. I think it's fair to say that he could thoroughly defeat Byakuya. With his shikai, he definitely will.

And the thing about Aizen is that anything he does can be passed off as a part of Kyoka Suigetsu. For the most part, unless explicitly shown as part of an illusion, it should be seen as a feat.

We do know that the Hogoyoku was already inside of him at the time so like you said we don't know if it did or did not agument his power but the real problem is like you said not only could everything he does be passed off as part of Kyoka Suigestu, but the fact we also don't know if it had been activated during the time before his reveal as well

Ulqiorra would destroy Byakuya.

Idk where aizen's coming in though@redbird3rdboywonder: @OblivionKnight:

@PrinceAragorn1: It's because we were trying to indentify Aizen's powers as he was when he was a captain before going all evil and possessing the Hogoyoku

If this is current Byakuya then he doesn't need Renji

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@PrinceAragorn1: It's because we were trying to indentify Aizen's powers as he was when he was a captain before going all evil and possessing the Hogoyoku

I see. I remember him cancelled out that kidou from kisuke's friend rather easily. And you're supposed to have about twice as much spiritual pressure as a average captain to interact with the hogyoku.. I'd say he would still be incredibly strong.

Was the stopping ichigo's sword with bare hands at the execution spot before using hogyoku?

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@PrinceAragorn1: It's because we were trying to indentify Aizen's powers as he was when he was a captain before going all evil and possessing the Hogoyoku

I see. I remember him cancelled out that kidou from kisuke's friend rather easily. And you're supposed to have about twice as much spiritual pressure as a average captain to interact with the hogyoku.. I'd say he would still be incredibly strong.

Was the stopping ichigo's sword with bare hands at the execution spot before using hogyoku?

It's hard to know honestly since another user stated that Aizen had already built an imperfect Hogoyoku, but needed to combine it with the one Urahara made in order to unlock it's true power, so for all we know Aizen could have always had some of his power augmented by the Hogoyoku he made even before it was whole

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

It's hard to know honestly since another user stated that Aizen had already built an imperfect Hogoyoku, but needed to combine it with the one Urahara made in order to unlock it's true power, so for all we know Aizen could have always had some of his power augmented by the Hogoyoku he made even before it was whole

As far as I think, when aizen said he was just using his basic stats to ichigo, he wasn't using any serious powers from hogyoku, along with ks.. when he started changing though, it increased his power significantly..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

It's hard to know honestly since another user stated that Aizen had already built an imperfect Hogoyoku, but needed to combine it with the one Urahara made in order to unlock it's true power, so for all we know Aizen could have always had some of his power augmented by the Hogoyoku he made even before it was whole

As far as I think, when aizen said he was just using his basic stats to ichigo, he wasn't using any serious powers from hogyoku, along with ks.. when he started changing though, it increased his power significantly..

That could be true but it's really hard to gauge his power compared to the other captains since he has no feats aside from when he'd already had it is all i'm saying

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

It's hard to know honestly since another user stated that Aizen had already built an imperfect Hogoyoku, but needed to combine it with the one Urahara made in order to unlock it's true power, so for all we know Aizen could have always had some of his power augmented by the Hogoyoku he made even before it was whole

As far as I think, when aizen said he was just using his basic stats to ichigo, he wasn't using any serious powers from hogyoku, along with ks.. when he started changing though, it increased his power significantly..

That could be true but it's really hard to gauge his power compared to the other captains since he has no feats aside from when he'd already had it is all i'm saying

ok..

@*Void* said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: If he'd already created a Hogoyoku then that would mean he'd already been exposed to it's power even if it was imperfect/not combined with Uraharas beforehand, which would exactly support my statement of him having been exposed to some of it's power beforehand. Though this is insight on my part

@*Void*: That's BS show me where it said Aizen was equal to Yama in power. If that had been the case Aizen wouldn't have needed Wonderweiss to seal his power away and would also contradict Ichigo's statement that Aizen was just looking for a rival. That would also put Aizen above Restu, Shinsui, and Jashiro which is way to high.

Stat wise they were equal. If Yamamato was stronger he wouldn't have had to use a move that would kill himself in the process. Aizen himself said that Ryujinn jakka was probably more powerful than him, so just as Yamaji removed Kyoka Suigetsu from the fight (because if he didnt he would trolled to death) so did Aizen. What makes Aizen better than everyone else is not his raw power but his intellect. He is basically Batman, Reed Richards and Thanos all rolled into one.

Itto Kaso didn't kill him. He was just fine after the fight.

@UltimateHero0406: We have never seen Aizens bankai so saying that Yamajis Bankai release makes his stats better when we have never seen Aizens full power makes no sense. Aizen was already known to be stronger than all Captains hence why even before he started to access the Hyogyaku he wiped the floor with them. Yamamato was goin to use Jigoku to kill Aizen, Himself and everyone else within range because he knew it was the only way to ensure his death. And as I said before the data book written by Tite himself not only stated that Yamaji and Aizen were equal stat wise but that Aizen was known by every shinigami to have mastered every skill possible. Aizen was the yin to Yamas yang, the brain to his brawn before he evolved.

@*Void*: All I said was Yama didn't use any attacks that killed him. I think you meant to reply to someone else.

When I said Yama had to use a move that that would have killed himself I didnt mean Itto Kaso. But I get why you said that, what I should have said was "Yama was going to use a move that would have ended in his own death.".

Byakuya maybe faster than Ulquiorra, but weaker. If he durable enough to withstand his bankai, Ulqiuorra wins.

And I agree with that Ichigo is a bad main character. At least in the anime, very bad. The other shinigamis are more cooler, has better style, and trained, fought more than Ichigo. They wouldn't deserve to rely on somebody from other world, in whenever a villain appear. And it getting worse.

@renobjc: I don't really think ichigo is the one to blame here, I think he is a really great person. I think the one to blame here is the author of bleach. I really hate the way he just keeps on overpowering ichigo only and leaving all other characters as if they were nothing. I mean, just look at how ichigo is the only character with a form higher than Bankai. He just keeps on overpowering ichigo alone and that really sucks.

Higher form the bankai?

?????????????????

Until I see Current Buakuya's Bankai (which should be huge since his Current Shikai equals his past Bankai) Ulquiorra's one shots with Relampágo.