Buffy vs X-23

Thats better :)

Thanks for the lesson senpai

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@rbt:

She is consistent in after images in comics.

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Those aren't after images, they're merely an effect to show motion.

As shown in this scan from Luther Strode a regular human (Butch) is shown making what you claim to be an "after image." The artist is just trying to convey motion and sometimes speed, but these effects aren't tangible and they aren't impressive.

Whoa, what a fast paper towel....... Lol.

@thenaughtytitan: well first off, none of those scans is showing after images, only a drawn effect of point A to point B with sense of motion like you said. Second off, anything can possibly show an after image as long it's faster than the eye can process. Third off, Buffy speed and slayer powers is already faster than of those feats of thrown objects by a lot.

I'm not understanding the big deal. It's not like after images makes you DBZ, anyone with a mediocre facet of super speed can accomplish it. It's also unquantifiable feat and only proves faster than eyesight (which is 280 fps) at best.

@sirfizzwhizz

well first off, non of those scans is showing after images, only a drawn effect of point a to be with login like you said.

Are you refer to the scans both you and I posted? If so then I agree, none of the effects are after images.

Second off, anything can show like a after image as long it's faster than the eye can process

True, but not quite relevant to the point i'm making.

Third off, Buffy speed and slayer powers is already faster than of those feats of thrown objects by a lot.

That's irrelevant, the argument is whether or not the effects are in fact "after images" and in both the Buffy and Strode scans they are just effects used to show motion. Her being faster doesn't make those effects any more impressive.

I'm not understanding the big deal. It's not like after images makes you DBZ, anyone with a mediocre facet of super speed can accomplish it. It's also unquantifiable feat and only proves faster than eyesight (which is 280 fps) at best.

There's no big deal, they just aren't after images.

@thenaughtytitan: I'm not sure how they are not after images when they can said as much. You don't want to say they are, then you agree what X-23, Black Panther, and Spider Man famous proof of after images are then not that. Which is fine with me either way as again those feats can be after images and consistent to the speed of all the characters anyway, so it does not matter how you define the scans in Question.

Buffy.

I have to side with X-23. Buffy doesn't have answers to the Adamantium Claws or Healing Factor; superior skill (arguable) alone won't evade them.

Ok, just my attempt to clear things up.

Wolverine is not over 200 years old. He was born in the late 1880's. So he's more like 130. Given his life span and what he has accomplished, that is significant amount of time but nothing that really contributes to his feats.

X-23 vs Spider-Man. X-23's 2 first attacks were dodged and somehow positioned him next two a skylight and he fell back when she lunged at him. I don't see it as him being tackled because he grabbed her hands mid lunge and went backwards. Then she fell on top of him. He never once threw a strike and merely tried webbing up her hands or claws while making jokes the entire time. Could X-23 probably tag him? I don't see why not considering he's commented on Wolverine and Daken's speed being relatively close and X-23 can at least manage to keep them on their toes when attacking. Regarding the feat itself I don't see it as a solid legitimate hit but more of luck and feats by comparison to other characters.

On the X-23 and Wolverine. I don't think Logan was really jobbing. Sure he said he was serious and to me that was him just ready to fight back more, but not necessarily going his best. He was telling her to get off of him and stopped mid fight to pull dirt out of his wounds and decided to pay more attention on that since she was trying to bleed him out. In a straight up fight, Logan is significantly better by a sizeable margin given how Kinney is below Daken at this point but I'd say only slightly. Their fight to me was long but I think a lot of his was Daken wasn't in his right mind set, was kind of pissed, and he was amazed though at how good she was. Still, in a fight, I would say he should come out on top, but considering how he has lost the last two fights against Logan, Logan is once again on the top of the 3 of them.

X-23's primary training is supposed to be what Logan went through but was wanted to be better. Outside of it, she doesn't have the expansive training like Daken or Wolverine have. She has some training with the X-Men and Avengers but aside from that she should be less skilled than either of the former. I don't see her as being more skilled than Buffy. However, I don't see her being so bad because she is so efficient in how she fights. She said it best in her spar with Tigra in that she Tigra wants to just disembowel because of her instincts while Laura's have been honed to strike major organs and kill as quickly and efficiently as possible. Her track record against better characters in skill feats are keeping Logan on his toes when he didn't want to get hit and impressing him when he got more serious, defeating Lady Deathstrike with a possum ploy, and fighting Daken relatively evenly.

So on the actual fight. From what I have seen in the show and some of the comics, Buffy has a solid strength advantage and a breadth skill advantage. Her scythe can do some major damage but with how I have seen she fights, she reminds of Blade. Blade was trained to handle a more...specific type of enemy, being vampires. Buffy's specialty is against monsters, demons, vampires and other magical beings. Against other human type enemies, heart stabs and such would work and will probably try to reign in X-23 to end it with a heart stab or trying to dismember her. Her version of the kill shot. While those would work, I don't see it happening all the time. I think X-23 has held her own against a few skilled opponents and has grown enough to make use of her training well to perform well against Buffy. I think the heart stab or disemboweling will be much easier to do than the beheading slash, but the latter being the one surefire way to end it. I think X-23's healing can help edge the skill and strength advantage against Buffy's strength and skill for about a 6-7/10

@god_spawn: as always nice breakdowns. Quick question. Was it stated Somewhere that Wolverine knew every form of hand to hand? I swore it was somewhere.

@sirfizzwhizz: It's primarily stated through handbooks and I know he has stated it a couple of times, but I'm not sure on the exact runs or issues. I'd have to go through my books.

His 2004 hand book entry states he mastered virtually all forms of fighting on earth and he is rated as a 7/7 on the grid which the back of the issue confirms means you are a master of all forms. All though the grid can be inconsistent at times (cap has been rated as a 6/7 in some entries and a 7/7 in others), all though I don't believe that's the case with wolverine. I don't think he's gotten lower than a 7/7 on the grid:

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@bump1010: @god_spawn: Awesome, thanks for the info.

@sirfizzwhizz: its never been stated on panel like a black panther and bats has. Wolverine, daken, and for that matter peeps like taskmaster and shang chi have mastered all forms of combat according to handbooks... Mantis who in my opinion is marvels most skilled combatant has never been said to know all forms of combat... When I said that about daken and Logan, I was more just lazily giving an argument because you were using statements and not feats. Buffy fights monsters and vampires which are not skilled in hand to hand.. Her physical advantages and knowledge of her specific things she fights is hugein how she fights.. I do believe if she knows aabout Laura's HF then she will be quicker to go for some of the shots she would need to win. My thing is that she would have to block everything laura throws at her or actually dodge all of Laura's attacks because buffy will be slashed by them. Her durability can't hold up against slashes... Anyways my apologies for making a lazy argument earlier

laura

@newecho: that's cool, more detailed breakdowns clear up confusions, and more fun to read for all sides.

@sirfizzwhizz: No problem.

Based on the posts here, I'd say Buffy.

@allstarsuperman: damn!!! I am surprise anyone would side with her after all was said and done.

@sirfizzwhizz: Her recalling ALL past fights is a pretty good edge in skill imo. And blitzing superhumans who blitz humans is more impressive then just blitzing humans. Obviously. Plus she has an ax with decent range.

I think I'll stick with the one that keeps going even after her arm gets sawn off or gets shot in the head.

Let me put it this way, Buffy might be more skilled, but she is used to fighting a particular kind of enemy with a very specific weakness. And the sheer durability of Laura has caught more than one opponent off guard. So unless Buffy actually takes off Laura's head or otherwise instantly kill or KO her, any stake buried in Laura's chest could easilly be repaid by four in Buffy's.

i really hope so.

I want to real quick addressed these comments anyway.

reminds of Blade. Blade was trained to handle a more...specific type of enemy, being vampires. Buffy's specialty is against monsters, demons, vampires and other magical beings.

and

Let me put it this way, Buffy might be more skilled, but she is used to fighting a particular kind of enemy with a very specific weakness.

I want to say while its true Buffy faces 50% of the time Vampires, the Vampires are not the same as the others.

You have Normal Vampires seasons 1-7, then you get Zompires and feral Vampires Season 9 which are different in stats. Then you get Super Vampires in Season 7 which cannot be killed as easily as the rest. Now in season 10 you have new age Vampires which are super hard to stake, have elephant hide skin, shape shifting, intagibility, and no weakness to sunlight! Yet Buffy adapted to them off the bat.

now the other 50% of being Buffy fight are large in variety demons and occasional god. All who share no weakness of the Vampires with special powers as well. Yet Buffy deal with them in randoms fine.

All these ar such examples. So I do not think its fair to say she is use to a particular enemy anymore than to say X-23 only deals with humans you know.

Buffy vs Amy

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Amy is a powerful witch on the same level as Willow roughly. Buffy with her Slayer girlfriend takes down a whole military army with non lethal blows. Then face Amy coming out as the winners.

Buffy vs Alexia

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Alexia is the Watchers top field agent. through Magic she is boosted in stats to match Angel. Alexia also packs various gear and magical weapons. When Buffy came to Angel's rescue, she quickly took down Alexia and most of her toys.

Buffy vs Slayers

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Buffy casually takes down three other Slayers while holding back.

Buffy vs Gigi

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The Slayer Gigi was trained to take Buffy down, but fails in her fight.

Buffy vs Fray

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Buffy faces the very skilled and powerful Slayer named Fray. Fray who has dozen comics to her own name had advantages of home turf, purpose, willing to kill, and strength over Buffy's own. Yet Buffy skill and fighting memories allowed her to beat Fray.

Buffy vs Faith

https://vimeo.com/146030532

Collection of Buffy's fights with Faith.

Buffy vs Simon and Malkor

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Simon was no joke, as she was shown capable as a Slayer to beat down Spikes army, and deal with Spike at the same time. The bugs themselves have super strength to tear down concrete walls, and metal armor. Simon was not a Slayer to take lightly.

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At the end of Season 9, Buffy with just her Scythe takes on a large demon army of super stats daemons with varying abilities, and magic users. This is a insane feat as Willow using Dark Magic was hardly making a dent! You know how super powered Willow is? New Avengers Doctor Strange level my man. Buffy was out preforming her on the ground in the thick of it.

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Then in the conclusion we see Buffy survive that mess above ground to end up facing this insane dragged out battle under ground vs Simone and a Old One. Simone is a trained Slayer turn feral Vampire. Feral Vampires have greater stats than normal ones, and her being a trained Slayer means skill with more amps to stats! Buffy holds her own for a long time, gets toss to a Old One, a demon as powerful of Glory, and Illyria, and then Buffy survives that beating only to get the best of Simone in this terrible shape. Survives the explosion as well.

Buffy vs Glory

https://vimeo.com/146361351

Glory was a powerful hell god with super strength, speed, and invulnerability of a very high degree.

Buffy vs Twilight

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How about Buffy surprising and facing twilight? the guy who can out run and puck out of the air bullets, and has strength to crush mountain tops? Buffy is running hard another Slayer, fighting Vamps while out pacing the other train Slayer, and then puts up with his Ambush by Twilight, with no issues, and even speed wise surprises him with a agile counter attack.

Buffy vs The Siphon

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This character kills gods for laughs. He is able to absorb the power of anyone with his presence alone, and drains them. He is shown to have enough power at any given time to decimate Illyria herself in a fight.

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Here is Buffy against the Siphon who fed off the sum energy and power of over 30 vampires, and Buffy, while she had no shot at winning, still dragged the fight on long enough to force Sev to recharge on Zompires he had in storage. This guy who makes Illyria his bitch, had major issues with Buffy alone.

Buffy vs Giant Vampire

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Buffy drops the giant magic enhance vampire.

Buffy vs Pure Demons

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Just another great feat of Buffy fighting a soul sucking muck demon to great effect with Spike. A impossible task to carry on, much less harm the demon enough to weaken it where it knew it will lose. All the while avoiding having her soul suck.

The biggest issue I'm seeing is that in a prolonged fight, X-23 has every advantage. Buffy can take hits from almost any of her opponents, but she does actually take those hits. It's not very often you see Buffy resort purely to dodging against opponents who are near her level of speed. And that could get her taken out here, and pretty quickly. Especially from Laura, who has an adamantium claw in her foot. And once Buffy takes a decent cut, it's basically going to be over for her.

With that said, Buffy can actually take this without too much issue. The Slayer Scythe should be able to block, and Laura doesn't have adamantium bones, nor the ability to regenerate limbs. One decent chop with the scythe and she's losing body parts. The problem is going to be landing those attacks.

For me, this'll come down to who hits first. Buffy has every physical advantage here except speed, and I think that could cost her the win. I'll take X-23 for a slight majority.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: Im curious, what do you mean Buffy takes hits? Blunt attacks, yes, but when has she taken sword, blade, or arrow attacks aimed at her without blocking or dodging them?

@sirfizzwhizz: What X-23 has are blunt force attacks, and in many of her fights she doesn't unsheath her foot claw until she's basically making contact with someone already.

And Buffy hasn't fought a lot of Katar wielders that I'm aware of. Which is a very different type of weapon to dodge, as it's wielded just as much like a fist as a sword (kind of, depending on the length of the wrist blade). It's not like a sword, blade, or arrow attack. It's more like a cross between a claw and a gauntlet. The closest thing we saw to that in Buffy that I'm aware of was Adam and the demon with the bone skewer. Which we never really saw her actually face IIRC.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Well Katar is a terrible weapon form, and highly un effective in itself ;)

Also she did face the skewer.

https://vimeo.com/146022192

First fight and broke it in the second. Anyway, I dont think her facing fist claws would be that hard when the style of the weapon form is flawed to a high degree, and Buffy faced the claws and blades of demons that popped from their arms and hands already.

She in fact defeated two of the demons with bone skewers with no weapons before fighting Adam.

@sirfizzwhizz: Neither demon was particularly fast, nor nearly as skilled as X-23. And both were frail in comparison to X's claws.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

All true, I am just saying Im not sure what Katar will bring to the table that the hundreds of unique, and special attacks other demons failed to do.

Indestructible claws that can cut through almost anything? I mean, even the uber vamps couldn't deal with steel or steel cables.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: Well why would Buffy not dodge or block them like she does the claw hands of super fast Vamps and Demons? Im just saying I dont see the who claw hands as much a argument. the Foot claw be tricky as hell, yes.

@sirfizzwhizz: They won't be much of an issue, but even if Laura only lands a claw strike one out of every 25 tries, that one hit is enough to cut through Buffy like butter. They aren't like the other claws Buffy faced that left surface wound lacerations and little else. These things won't be affected by Buffy's super durability.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: Well it needs to be major hits.

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States to have a healing factor. Riley is covered in bruises everywhere from a fight, but notices Buffy has no marks on her at all even though she took as much a beating. Buffy states her healing factor, comparing it to Angels. Buffy is shown in a never ending battle of gladiator demons to be healing various wounds from the last fight to keep on fighting. Buffy suffers a critical flu that hospitalizes people for weeks, but she is cured overnight.

She has a decent healing factor herself.

@sirfizzwhizz: It's decent, but it's more along the lines of minor wounds in minutes-hours to heal, as opposed to the normal human days-weeks. Not along the lines of minor wounds in seconds, critical wounds in minutes, and evisceration in tens of minutes.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

True, but its why Buffy can tank a sword through her back and out her stomach, yet still fight and beat Caleb, and then run faster than a 50 MPH Bus in one scene.

By that logic, the Punisher's healing factor way trumps Buffy's...

Either that or we can assume she has way better clotting factors than a normal human being...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: Punisher never been stabbed in vital organs, then hand to hand a God level being (Much higher than any vampire as in), and chase down a 50 MPH bus.

@sirfizzwhizz: Comparably he has. He's well below Buffy's level, and he's pulled of feats on a comparable level to his own abilities while suffering as bad, if not worse for wounds.

He got shot and stabbed, and still gave Daken a decent hand to hand fight. Thrown off buildings and then chased down his opponents, etc. etc. And he doesn't have any form of invulnerability. Lesser or otherwise.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay:

He got shot and stabbed, and still gave Daken a decent hand to hand fight.

He lost that fight, and had no way to win. Not comparable to the Buffy feat I am bringing up at all.

Thrown off buildings and then chased down his opponents, etc. etc.

Thats blunt damage, which is not what we are discussing.

And he doesn't have any form of invulnerability. Lesser or otherwise.

Nope, he has some stupid blunt durability feats that are very superhuman but we are discussing healing factors.

Like this.

@sirfizzwhizz: Punisher is perfectly comparable to the point you're making. Unless you think I can't find 100 instances of Frank being stabbed in vital areas, or that you're unaware of his many feats of functioning after being stabbed, shot, broken, and etc. So you're current argument of "I don't know who Frank Castle is, and am not comprehending your point." is not as valid as you may believe.

Look at your scan. It isn't referring to one short period instance. It says "Deep Gashes Heal, A Broken Tibia Mends. Also so that she can...FIGHT. Again, and Again, and Again." It's not referring to one specific fight, it's referring to several, spread over an unspecified quantity of time.

So yes, she heal and does it 100+ times faster than a normal person. But it can take two days for a human to fully heal a minor paper cut...or more. So if she can heal a paper cut in 28.8 minutes, she'd still be 100x faster than a normal person.

Hell if she's 1,000x faster, she'd do it in 2.8 minutes. At 10,000 times faster, it'd be 16 seconds. For a paper cut. But all evidence says it takes her more than a few minutes to recover from a minor cut. As we've seen a dozen times.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@floopay: I'm that scan refers to Buffy fighting a gauntlet of foes with no rest. She was fighting powerful vampires and demons in attempts to kill her and cash in on bets when she stops. So yes she is healing those wounds in a steady non stop gauntlet mate.

You you'll feel someone who can heal bloody gashes and what was meant as killing stab wounds in the same battle time frame as no factor for the occasional tag by X-23,then I will simply disagree with ya.

@sirfizzwhizz: Yes, but Buffy mostly suffers minor wounds, and most of those stay visible for hours after the fight. Superior clotting factors can be equally effective.

And while it does say they heal and mend, it still doesn't tell us how quickly. A deep wound against a singular opponent who can keep up with Wolverine may prove just as fatal as a stab to the heart. And her taking a minute, three minutes, or five minutes to recover back to 100% can easily cost her the win.

Whereas anything short of dismembering something isn't going to pause X-23 for more than a minute or more. Even then, she's cut her own arm off before to accomplish a task, so while it would give Buffy the likely win, it wouldn't guarantee it.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Imo X-23

Everyone knows or should know magic cancels out healing factors. As seen with wolverine, daken, sabertooth, tomi. Not that it would matter as everyone on this site only wanks two high end wolverine regen feats anyway.

Healing factors get burned out the more damage the body takes. Like wolverine, X3 has been near death and knocked out plenty of times in her new xmen run alone.

True that.

Buffy.