Buffy vs Batman

@Picard said:

@allwalledup said:

@Picard: but even with all her powers and abilities batman would eventually FIND a weakness. its what he DOES. batman doesnt have super strength or speed or agility. he uses his INTELLIGENCE to fight and he uses his parents death as a motivation rather than a thing to dwell on. it fuels him and drives him to overcome anything standing in his way and that's ussually why he wins. i understand buffy is very wise and strong but shes not cut out to kill the goddamn batman. btw both mik mignolas run on batman and the killing joke are both non canon in the dcu. just so you know...

Here is the thing... Batman is mainly fighting masterminds - skinny guys like Joker, Riddler, Mr. Zsasz - or fat, little ones ;) - like Penguin. They can be interesting characters but surely they don't posse great physical threat. Buffy on the other hand is not only stronger, faster and more durable than Batman, she fighting - on a nightly basis - creatures that are both stronger, faster and more durable than Batman. So in h2h fight - withouth prep - Buffy wins. And she don't need a year of preparations, nor the Scythe to do this. You say that he eventually will find her weakness... probably yes. But it is irrelevant to our discussion. "Killing joke" in non canon? So why Barbara Gordon is in a wheelchair? His obsession about parents death... well Ra's Al Ghul - yet another mastermind - used this very effectively against him in "JLA Tower of babel" didn't he? So I think it can be as much source of strength, as well it can be his Achilles heel. Sure, Buffy is not a genius like Batman - never was, never will be - but she also don't possess vast family fortune and unlimited time to study and develop their cognitive skills. Thats all don't change the fact that in straight fight I would bet on Slayer.

@Void_Paladin: Firstly you must prove that nerve strikes would work on her. :) Secoundly this is how Batman is "dealing" with faster, stronger and more durable more durable opponents in open fight: ;)

Azrael was capable of lifting 5-8 tons when this fight occured and he's much more skilled than Buffy.As for Deathstroke,why don't you actually post ALL the scans instead of the out of context ones? Slade was limping away and he got owned by a thug after the fight.

@entropy_aegis said:

@Picard said:

@allwalledup said:

@Picard: but even with all her powers and abilities batman would eventually FIND a weakness. its what he DOES. batman doesnt have super strength or speed or agility. he uses his INTELLIGENCE to fight and he uses his parents death as a motivation rather than a thing to dwell on. it fuels him and drives him to overcome anything standing in his way and that's ussually why he wins. i understand buffy is very wise and strong but shes not cut out to kill the goddamn batman. btw both mik mignolas run on batman and the killing joke are both non canon in the dcu. just so you know...

Here is the thing... Batman is mainly fighting masterminds - skinny guys like Joker, Riddler, Mr. Zsasz - or fat, little ones ;) - like Penguin. They can be interesting characters but surely they don't posse great physical threat. Buffy on the other hand is not only stronger, faster and more durable than Batman, she fighting - on a nightly basis - creatures that are both stronger, faster and more durable than Batman. So in h2h fight - withouth prep - Buffy wins. And she don't need a year of preparations, nor the Scythe to do this. You say that he eventually will find her weakness... probably yes. But it is irrelevant to our discussion. "Killing joke" in non canon? So why Barbara Gordon is in a wheelchair? His obsession about parents death... well Ra's Al Ghul - yet another mastermind - used this very effectively against him in "JLA Tower of babel" didn't he? So I think it can be as much source of strength, as well it can be his Achilles heel. Sure, Buffy is not a genius like Batman - never was, never will be - but she also don't possess vast family fortune and unlimited time to study and develop their cognitive skills. Thats all don't change the fact that in straight fight I would bet on Slayer.

@Void_Paladin: Firstly you must prove that nerve strikes would work on her. :) Secoundly this is how Batman is "dealing" with faster, stronger and more durable more durable opponents in open fight: ;)

Azrael was capable of lifting 5-8 tons when this fight occured and he's much more skilled than Buffy.As for Deathstroke,why don't you actually post ALL the scans instead of the out of context ones? Slade was limping away and he got owned by a thug after the fight.

Don't bother, all Picard does is post low showings and out-of-context Batman scans everywhere because he's sore that Buffy loses.

@allwalledup: Batman beat a downgraded amazo with an exploding batarang. Batman has never beaten superman even, when superman was holding back and undermind control. Nor has Batman ever beaten darksied in a fight. Lex luthor has no fighting skills and thats the equlavent of saying barack obama got beat by ironfist. The joker also has next to no fighting skills. I could say that you have next to no knowledge of buffy the vampire slayer if you think all she fights are vampires. But you dont seem to know anything about batman either.

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Batman gets slayed.

@Cold_World said:

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Batman has beaten people far stronger and faster than him. Azrael has already beaten Batman. No one is claiming Batman would beat Deathstroke in a random encounter. But Buffy isn't a fraction as skilled as Slade.

Buffy

@Cold_World said:

@allwalledup: Batman beat a downgraded amazo with an exploding batarang. Batman has never beaten superman even, when superman was holding back and undermind control. Nor has Batman ever beaten darksied in a fight. Lex luthor has no fighting skills and thats the equlavent of saying barack obama got beat by ironfist. The joker also has next to no fighting skills. I could say that you have next to no knowledge of buffy the vampire slayer if you think all she fights are vampires. But you dont seem to know anything about batman either.

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Get your eyes checked,this is'nt Batman vs Deathstroke,why should i bring up a totally irrelevant fight which has nothing to do with this battle? he posted an out of context scan(with him it's become habitual ) and i gave it context and that same writer(Dixon) who wrote the second Batman vs Deathstroke encounter had Eddie Fryers owning Slade and Nightwing also made a fool outta him.You also neglected to mention that it was Slade who came out of that fight looking as if he had gotten his face melted.

Prove Buffy is even 10% as skilled as Azrael and show her fighting these 10-15 tonners in h2h without the use of weapons,plotdevices or someone's help and that they were clever,fast and good fighters themselves.

80% of the posts I've read in this thread have made me dumber.

Right now, Buffy wins this fight because for some reason the OP gave her a year of prep and an ambush scenario. Not really fair.

@CitizenBane said:

@Cold_World said:

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Batman has beaten people far stronger and faster than him. Azrael has already beaten Batman. No one is claiming Batman would beat Deathstroke in a random encounter. But Buffy isn't a fraction as skilled as Slade.

Batman has beaten people stronger than he is. Batman has beaten people faster than he is. Are you going to dig at the bottom of the pis barrel and show me the people he has beaten who were faster, stronger, more durable and had centuries more experience than he does? Because that essentially what Buffy is. And for the record, Buffy has. I didn't see anyone claim that deathstroke wouldn't beat batman in a random encounter either. But that user insinuated that another user took a fight out of context. Which wasn't true. He listed a fight that happened in the same comic, yes, but was a completely different fight in which Slade still won.. Making his statements ironic and a bit hypocritical. I don't know the instance in which you are referring to, but the only time i remember anything close to Azrael beating batman the fight technically wasn't over. And batman could only beat him when he tricked Paul into removing his armor. I don't exactly see batman tricking Buffy into becoming less durable. In that same comic batman stated that Paul wasn't as skilled as he was, meaning he was nearly beaten on someones physical stats that were superior to his. Buffy, as it has been mentioned in this thread has centuries of fighting experience do to her being a slayer. So not only is she more skilled than Slade, shes more skilled than Bruce and Slade combined. At least when it comes to experience. And even if that wasn't true, saying she doesn't have a fraction of Slade's skills is just insulting. Buffy has fought everything from gods, to ninjas, to super soldiers with advanced military training. And she's made a fool of them all.

@Cold_World said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Cold_World said:

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Batman has beaten people far stronger and faster than him. Azrael has already beaten Batman. No one is claiming Batman would beat Deathstroke in a random encounter. But Buffy isn't a fraction as skilled as Slade.

Batman has beaten people stronger than he is. Batman has beaten people faster than he is. Are you going to dig at the bottom of the pis barrel and show me the people he has beaten who were faster, stronger, more durable and had centuries more experience than he does? Because that essentially what Buffy is. And for the record, Buffy has. I didn't see anyone claim that deathstroke wouldn't beat batman in a random encounter either. But that user insinuated that another user took a fight out of context. Which wasn't true. He listed a fight that happened in the same comic, yes, but was a completely different fight in which Slade still won.. Making his statements ironic and a bit hypocritical. I don't know the instance in which you are referring to, but the only time i remember anything close to Azrael beating batman the fight technically wasn't over. And batman could only beat him when he tricked Paul into removing his armor. I don't exactly see batman tricking Buffy into becoming less durable. In that same comic batman stated that Paul wasn't as skilled as he was, meaning he was nearly beaten on someones physical stats that were superior to his. Buffy, as it has been mentioned in this thread has centuries of fighting experience do to her being a slayer. So not only is she more skilled than Slade, shes more skilled than Bruce and Slade combined. At least when it comes to experience. And even if that wasn't true, saying she doesn't have a fraction of Slade's skills is just insulting. Buffy has fought everything from gods, to ninjas, to super soldiers with advanced military training. And she's made a fool of them all.

Nice to see you too Picard.

@Cold_World said:

Batman has beaten people stronger than he is. Batman has beaten people faster than he is. Are you going to dig at the bottom of the pis barrel and show me the people he has beaten who were faster, stronger, more durable and had centuries more experience than he does?

I probably could.You can moan and cry about Batman doing that stuff, but he's been doing it consistently for decades. Consistency means it's not PIS. Plain and simple.

But that user insinuated that another user took a fight out of context. Which wasn't true. He listed a fight that happened in the same comic, yes, but was a completely different fight in which Slade still won.. Making his statements ironic and a bit hypocritical.

This is what happens when people take everything at face value.

I don't know the instance in which you are referring to, but the only time i remember anything close to Azrael beating batman the fight technically wasn't over. And batman could only beat him when he tricked Paul into removing his armor.

*facepalm* Is Knightfall the only Azrael related comic you've ever read? They've fought after that.

And even if that wasn't true, saying she doesn't have a fraction of Slade's skills is just insulting. Buffy has fought everything from gods, to ninjas, to super soldiers with advanced military training. And she's made a fool of them all.

It's not true, and considering that Slade has punked metahumans on a regular basis, I'm going to hazard a guess and say you have no clue what you're talking about.

@Any Buffy Fans: Is it true that Buffy has fought and beaten people a lot stronger(with better physical stats) than her?

@entropy_aegis said:

@Cold_World said:

@allwalledup: Batman beat a downgraded amazo with an exploding batarang. Batman has never beaten superman even, when superman was holding back and undermind control. Nor has Batman ever beaten darksied in a fight. Lex luthor has no fighting skills and thats the equlavent of saying barack obama got beat by ironfist. The joker also has next to no fighting skills. I could say that you have next to no knowledge of buffy the vampire slayer if you think all she fights are vampires. But you dont seem to know anything about batman either.

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Get your eyes checked,this is'nt Batman vs Deathstroke,why should i bring up a totally irrelevant fight which has nothing to do with this battle? he posted an out of context scan(with him it's become habitual ) and i gave it context and that same writer(Dixon) who wrote the second Batman vs Deathstroke encounter had Eddie Fryers owning Slade and Nightwing also made a fool outta him.You also neglected to mention that it was Slade who came out of that fight looking as if he had gotten his face melted.

Prove Buffy is even 10% as skilled as Azrael and show her fighting these 10-15 tonners in h2h without the use of weapons,plotdevices or someone's help and that they were clever,fast and good fighters themselves.

My eyes are just fine. You commented on Picard's scans which was a batman vs deathstroke scan. The comment that you made stated that Picard was taking the fight out of context. He didn't. You listed a completely different fight. Anyone with a brain can see the relevance, so you can drop the attitude. Not only did you list a completely different fight to try and call someone out on taking scans out of context, but you neglected to mention batman had to sneak attack Slade to hurt him, and he still lost. There have only been two (technically 3 if you count final crisis) between Slade and Bruce that i know of. And in both fights Bruce was beaten badly and needed to sneak attack Slade just to touch him. I have so many comics of Slade beating the crap out of Dick, it's not even funny. And in all of them (5in all i think) Dick knew he couldn't win. He even payed Slade not to kill him and another woman. That's right, he had to pay him not to get his butt kicked. So i pretty much dont believe you on this he got owned by night wing comment.

As already stated, Buffy has the fighting experience, and memories of every single slayer who has ever lived from 27,000 BC. That's all the proof i need to prove shes more skilled and experienced. The fact hat she has beaten at least 7 different slayers who also have these skills and experiences is even more so in her favor. She has beaten Dracula whom himself sated he was conquering armies, and killing thousands of men in battle before he had even become a a vampire. And the list goes on. Buffy fought Glory 3 times without the aid of a weapon or her friends or plot device, or the rest of the ridiculous things you said. Any more questions?

@CitizenBane:

i havent "cried" or "moaned" about batman doing anything. I don't know what you're talking about. Batman hasn't taken on people who were stronger, faster, more durable, more expereinced, than he was. He has taken on people with one or two of those traits, but not all in one. I specifically asked for someone who had all of those abilities so i can skip ast this bruce fights so and so all the time, so i didnt need to waste my time. Perhaps i should have been more clear.

I'm not sure what to make of this face value comment. The way you're using it i'm not sure you even know that it means.

Did i say knightfall was the only comic i read with azrael or did i say it was the only one in which he came close to beating bruce? But since you want to potray yourself as an expert on the matter, why dont you list the comics in which he beat bruce.

It is true. Slade hasnt done a thing that a slayer hasnt already done. Slade punked meta humans, uhm ok. Buffy has punked demons and supernatrual threats that are the equivalent of meta humans or higher.

@Jezer said:

@Any Buffy Fans: Is it true that Buffy has fought and beaten people a lot stronger(with better physical stats) than her?

Yes it's true, and she does so all the time.

Interesting battle. BATMAN definitely has more battle experience but BUFFY, in her relatively short time as slayer, has defeated beings that have been around for centuries.

By default, I would say Batman (simply because of his brilliance), but this fight is really a TOSS UP...

@Cold_World said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Cold_World said:

@allwalledup: Batman beat a downgraded amazo with an exploding batarang. Batman has never beaten superman even, when superman was holding back and undermind control. Nor has Batman ever beaten darksied in a fight. Lex luthor has no fighting skills and thats the equlavent of saying barack obama got beat by ironfist. The joker also has next to no fighting skills. I could say that you have next to no knowledge of buffy the vampire slayer if you think all she fights are vampires. But you dont seem to know anything about batman either.

@entropy_aegis: And buffy fought people who were capable of lifting 10 to 15 tons and didnt get knocked out. And the point picard was trying to make was how batman faired against someone stronger than he is. Which buffy is. Azarel isnt more skilled than buffy, he isn't even more skilled than batman. And if you're going to call out someone for allegedly taking things out of context. Why dont you mention the fact that slade was limping after a second fight with batman seperate from the one picard posted? And in that second fight batman had to sneek attack slade causing him to fall off a ledge pretty high from the ground which is how he got that injury. For the record slade beat batman that second fight as well. Batman and deathstroke fought a second time, in which deathstroke easily defeated bruce twice.

Get your eyes checked,this is'nt Batman vs Deathstroke,why should i bring up a totally irrelevant fight which has nothing to do with this battle? he posted an out of context scan(with him it's become habitual ) and i gave it context and that same writer(Dixon) who wrote the second Batman vs Deathstroke encounter had Eddie Fryers owning Slade and Nightwing also made a fool outta him.You also neglected to mention that it was Slade who came out of that fight looking as if he had gotten his face melted.

Prove Buffy is even 10% as skilled as Azrael and show her fighting these 10-15 tonners in h2h without the use of weapons,plotdevices or someone's help and that they were clever,fast and good fighters themselves.

My eyes are just fine. You commented on Picard's scans which was a batman vs deathstroke scan. The comment that you made stated that Picard was taking the fight out of context. He didn't. You listed a completely different fight. Anyone with a brain can see the relevance, so you can drop the attitude. Not only did you list a completely different fight to try and call someone out on taking scans out of context, but you neglected to mention batman had to sneak attack Slade to hurt him, and he still lost. There have only been two (technically 3 if you count final crisis) between Slade and Bruce that i know of. And in both fights Bruce was beaten badly and needed to sneak attack Slade just to touch him. I have so many comics of Slade beating the crap out of Dick, it's not even funny. And in all of them (5in all i think) Dick knew he couldn't win. He even payed Slade not to kill him and another woman. That's right, he had to pay him not to get his butt kicked. So i pretty much dont believe you on this he got owned by night wing comment.

As already stated, Buffy has the fighting experience, and memories of every single slayer who has ever lived from 27,000 BC. That's all the proof i need to prove shes more skilled and experienced. The fact hat she has beaten at least 7 different slayers who also have these skills and experiences is even more so in her favor. She has beaten Dracula whom himself sated he was conquering armies, and killing thousands of men in battle before he had even become a a vampire. And the list goes on. Buffy fought Glory 3 times without the aid of a weapon or her friends or plot device, or the rest of the ridiculous things you said. Any more questions?

And this keeps getting stupider and stupider,here let me spell it out for you Picard.

You posted an out of context scan of Batman vs Deathstroke from Deathstroke#7 in a Buffy vs Batman thread and when i adress it you expect me to bring up a Deathstroke vs Batman fight from Detetctive comics #710 which was written 6 years later?

See you're mixing both fights,so DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST.And they did'nt fight in FC either it was IC.Believe what you want,but Dxion had Nightwing chump Slade in his very NEXT appearence(Nightwing#18) after he supposedly beat Batman in Detective #710.

You're so called proof of her being skilled does'nt compute,if it's all about experience the how come Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul not the best fighters around? and prove Glory's abilities.

@Cold_World:

Here i even got the dates for you

Deathstroke the Terminator#7 Feb 1992

Detective comics #710 June 1997

Nightwing #18 March 1998.

@GREGalicious said:

Interesting battle. BATMAN definitely has more battle experience but BUFFY, in her relatively short time as slayer, has defeated beings that have been around for centuries.

By default, I would say Batman (simply because of his brilliance), but this fight is really a TOSS UP...

Agreed 100%.

I would say Batman by default but with the OPs conditions, i can't see how he will beat Buffy.

Buffy meet fist.

End of buffy.

@CitizenBane: Azrael was capable of lifting 5-8 tons when this fight occured and he's much more skilled than Buffy.As for Deathstroke,why don't you actually post ALL the scans instead of the out of context ones? Slade was limping away and he got owned by a thug after the fight.

First off all how Azrael is more skilled than Buffy? Second off all you missing the point entirely - Azrael didn't defeated Batman using his awesome martial arts skills, he do it because he shrugged off best Batman punches and then used his superior speed and strengh to KO Bat's. This same with Deathstroke - Slade won because he is stronger, faster and willing to kill, not because he is superior h2h combatant. And 5-8 tones? Did something changed because Azrael I know is just peak human, no superpowers there. Also it is irrelevant hos strong he is, Slayers can do this same what he did on this scan only better:

@CitizenBane: Don't bother, all Picard does is post low showings and out-of-context Batman scans everywhere because he's sore that Buffy loses.

I didn't, so I ask you kindly to stop lying

@Picard said:

@CitizenBane: Azrael was capable of lifting 5-8 tons when this fight occured and he's much more skilled than Buffy.As for Deathstroke,why don't you actually post ALL the scans instead of the out of context ones? Slade was limping away and he got owned by a thug after the fight.

Provide proof that Buffy is more skilled than Batman, Slade or Jean-Paul. Don't claim it's because of Slayers' knowledge, because by that logic Adam One, Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul should be stomping the entire DCverse with their martial arts skills. As for opponents, Batman has fought Solomon Grundy, Etrigan and a lower-level Amazo. Slade has punked the Titans and the JLA.

And 5-8 tones? Did something changed because Azrael I know is just peak human, no superpowers there. Also it is irrelevant hos strong he is, Slayers can do this same what he did on this scan only better:

This is the problem right here, you don't read the comics and have no grasp of limits and capabilities.

@CitizenBane: Don't bother, all Picard does is post low showings and out-of-context Batman scans everywhere because he's sore that Buffy loses.I didn't, so I ask you kindly to stop lying

It's pretty much the only thing you do. You post all his low showings and claim they're definitive of his skills, and when someone posts his high showings you whine about them being PIS. It's petty.

How enhanced are Buffy's stats?

@CitizenBane: Provide proof that Buffy is more skilled than Batman, Slade or Jean-Paul. Don't claim it's because of Slayers' knowledge, because by that logic Adam One, Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul should be stomping the entire DCverse with their martial arts skills. As for opponents, Batman has fought Solomon Grundy, Etrigan and a lower-level Amazo. Slade has punked the Titans and the JLA.

Excuse me did Ra's al Ghul spend his entire life fighting on nightly basis with vampires, demons, mensters etc. because that's what all Slayers do. I don't say that Ra's is not skilled but he is mainly mastermind not a fighter. So it is about Slayer's memories after all. You talking about Solomon Grundy, Etrigan and a lower-level Amazo, great, but Bruce also lost to Azreal and Slade just because those two are faster, stronger and more durable than he is. Also show me on scan I posted, one thing than Azrael can, and Buffy can't do.

This is the problem right here, you don't read the comics and have no grasp of limits and capabilities.

Quite the contrary my friend, I have pretty big knowledge about Batman comics, sure there are more knowledgeable people than me but still. Difference between us is that you - and others Batman fans - choose to focus on over the top Batman feats end ignoring everything else. For exemple I read a lot about how Batman is able to bench press 1000 pounds, in this same time people who claim that he can do this are completely ignoring fact that in "Batman: Venom" it was clearly stated that he couldn't lift 630 pounds. This only one example.

It's pretty much the only thing you do. You post all his low showings and claim they're definitive of his skills, and when someone posts his high showings you whine about them being PIS. It's petty.

Funy, this exactly what you and other Batman fans do, only you are focusing on over the top Batman showings. How Batman losing to Slade constantly in almost every encounter= low showing?

@Picard said:

@CitizenBane: Provide proof that Buffy is more skilled than Batman, Slade or Jean-Paul. Don't claim it's because of Slayers' knowledge, because by that logic Adam One, Vandal Savage and Ra's al Ghul should be stomping the entire DCverse with their martial arts skills. As for opponents, Batman has fought Solomon Grundy, Etrigan and a lower-level Amazo. Slade has punked the Titans and the JLA.

Excuse me did Ra's al Ghul spend his entire life fighting on nightly basis with vampires, demons, monters etc. because that's what all Slayers do. I don't say that Ra's is not skilled but he is mainly mastermind not a fighter. So it is about Slayer's memories after all. You talking about Solomon Grundy, Etrigan and a lower-level Amazo, great, but he also lost to Azreal and Slade just because those two are faster, stronger and more durable than he is. Also show me on scan I posted, one thing than Azrael can, and Buffy can't do.

This is the problem right here, you don't read the comics and have no grasp of limits and capabilities.

Quite the contrary my friend, I have pretty big knowledge about Batman comics, sure there are more knowledgeable people than me but still. Difference between us is that you - and others Batman fans - choose to focus on over the top Batman feats end ignoring everything else. For exemple I read a lot about how Batman is able to bench press 1000 pounds, in this same time people who claim that he can do this are completely ignoring fact that in "Batman: Venom" it was clearly stated that he couldn't lift 630 pounds. This only one example.

It's pretty much the only thing you do. You post all his low showings and claim they're definitive of his skills, and when someone posts his high showings you whine about them being PIS. It's petty.

Funy, this exactly what you and other Batman fans do, only you are focusing on over the top Batman showings. How Batman losing to Slade constantly in almost every encounter= low showing?

Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

@entropy_aegis: Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

So suddenly - when he gets older and logicly his body is not working as efficient as it used to when he was youngster - he become significantly stronger? Also this was only an exemple of inconsistency and Bat's fans reliance on over the top showings and ignoring everything else.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Again this is just words with no real meaning, a lot of hot air. Trening is not this same as real combat experience gained in life and death fights with supernatural creatures. For slayers this is not only about training - for them it is do or die. Almost every single slayer in history was trained and in this same time they fought on nightly basis against creatures with powers beyond that of mortal man. Every single night, since ancient Sumerians to present day.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

Not all of them, but they all are stronger, faster and more durable than peak humans. And some of them - like Angelus, Spike, Dracula, etc. actually have centuries of combat experience

@entropy_aegis: I'm not picard. And i'm not going to play your little game by repeating to you that i'm not picard. So if you want i can get a moderator in here to check our IP addresses, if that makes you feel better. Or you can ask a mod to do so yourself. But do try and not waste my time with childish antics. Also drop the attitude, it's not that serious. I don't know why you and bane are getting increasingly more disrespectful and hostile over something so trivial but i'm not about to get into a flame war over it.

The scans picard posted weren't out of context. Batman didn't injure slade until the second fight of that comic. At this point i'm just repeating my first post in this thread. There were two fights in deathstroke 7. Picard posted scans of the first. You're saying he took them out of conext because slade was injured in the second fight of said comic. This makes absolutely no sense. I also have nightwing 82 in which nightwing had to pay slade not to kill someone because he couldn't beat him himself. And plenty more where he easily defeated dick. Again this all is irrelevant. This isn't about deathtroke and nightwing. Its about batman and buffy. Picard showed what happens when batman goes against someone whos as skilled, stronger, faster and more durable than he is. And not just having one or two of those qualities, but all of them in one fighter. He gets the crap beat out of him. And so far i haven't seen any type of argument from you that batman can beat buffy. Just you saying how inferior you think she, and yet all evidence proves contrary.

I'm not mixing both fights, you clearly have confused yourself. I made it quite clear that this fight happened in the same comic.

Ras al ghul has held his own with batman plenty of times so i dont know what you mean. And i clearly stated that she gets the fighting experience of all the slayers before her. Even potential slayers get some of these fighting skills, as shown when amanda took out 4 soldiers of the first and a vampire without ever having been trained or having been in a fight in her life. And how Dana took out angel and spike when she spent most of her life in a mental institution.

You just went from saying Ras experience didn't make him a threat to Ras experience has lead him to form the deadliest group of assassins in DC comics. That's just sloppy. Also ras didnt train Cain, Sensei, Bronze Tiger, or Lady Shiva, or Casandra. And batman hasnt beaten any one of them in a straight up fair fight. So i don't even know why you're bringing them up. You don't have anything resembling a rational argument. Your whole argument boils down to Batman wins because he's batman. Watch me throw out names of people that have nothing to do with batman or his skills.

@CitizenBane said:

Slade has stomped the jla and teen titans with his martial arts. But besides that, you're not making any sense. The people you named are supposed to take out the likes of superman, wonder woman, flash and GL because they have experience and martial arts skills? Also you and entropy repeating prove buffy is more skilled is getting this debate nowhere. Because no matter what is shown you'll just say they arent on so and so level, not by any rational reason or proof. But because your opinion dictates otherwise. But none the less i'll give you what you ask for.

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@Erik said:

How enhanced are Buffy's stats?

She has out ran cars. She has caught up to and then out run a bus going full speed that had at least a 4 minute head start while injured. Her strength is way above two tons. She has taken blows from someone who's strength is the very least in the 15 ton range. She has dodged automatic machine gun weapons from multiple angles while taking out the army of guys who fired them. And she has the collective fighting experience of every slayer that has existed since 2700 BC. Each and everyone of them trained warriors.

@Cold_World: Dude he NEVER attacked him from behind in the City of assasins arc(Deathstroke 6-10) ,what part of that is so difficult to understand? he attacked him in Detective get that through your head.Hell go ask the user called Morpheus,he knows everything about Deathstroke.

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis: Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

So suddenly - when he gets older and logicly his body is not working as efficient as it used to when he was youngster - he become significantly stronger? Also this was only an exemple of inconsistency and Bat's fans reliance on over the top showings and ignoring everything else.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Again this is just words with no real meaning, a lot of hot air. Trening is not this same as real combat experience gained in life and death fights with supernatural creatures. For slayers this is not only about training - for them it is do or die. Almost every single slayer in history was trained and in this same time they fought on nightly basis against creatures with powers beyond that of mortal man. Every single night, since ancient Sumerians to present day.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

Not all of them, but they all are stronger, faster and more durable than peak humans. And some of them - like Angelus, Spike, Dracula, etc. actually have centuries of combat experience

Or maybe it's fiction?

He did become stronger over the years,you may not find if logical but in terms of the story and the universe Batman lives in it's perfectly plausible.

So Shiva and Cassandra don't have feats? that's news to me.

Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor,otherwise it's just a cheap excuse a character and not work for it.

Buffy wins due to the conditions in the op, in a random encounter Batman wins.

@entropy_aegis: Cough mention his utility bely cough.

...........Dont the conditions in the OP make this spite? 
Batman is caught off guard by a bloodlusted Buffy......with a scythe...... 
I can easily see her not even bothering fighting and instead just cutting him in two......

@buttersdaman000 said:

...........Dont the conditions in the OP make this spite?

Yes.

@buttersdaman000 said:

...........Dont the conditions in the OP make this spite?

Yes.

@entropy_aegis said:

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis: Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

So suddenly - when he gets older and logicly his body is not working as efficient as it used to when he was youngster - he become significantly stronger? Also this was only an exemple of inconsistency and Bat's fans reliance on over the top showings and ignoring everything else.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Again this is just words with no real meaning, a lot of hot air. Trening is not this same as real combat experience gained in life and death fights with supernatural creatures. For slayers this is not only about training - for them it is do or die. Almost every single slayer in history was trained and in this same time they fought on nightly basis against creatures with powers beyond that of mortal man. Every single night, since ancient Sumerians to present day.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

Not all of them, but they all are stronger, faster and more durable than peak humans. And some of them - like Angelus, Spike, Dracula, etc. actually have centuries of combat experience

Or maybe it's fiction?

He did become stronger over the years,you may not find if logical but in terms of the story and the universe Batman lives in it's perfectly plausible.

So Shiva and Cassandra don't have feats? that's news to me.

Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor,otherwise it's just a cheap excuse a character and not work for it.

Sure it is work of fiction, so what? Is this means that it could be completely illogical? How can you even make a battle when you claim that Batman's stats are in constant flux? Yes Shiva and Cassandra have combat feats, so? We where talking about Ra's, remember not about Shiva and Cass. And they still don't have combined knowledge of every single slayer who ever lived bettwen times of ancient Sumeria and now. Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor??? This same can be said about absolutely everything, including your precious martial arts skills. Also you are acting like you didn't know that every single slayer was trained in martial arts. You know that they all were trained right? You also must know that this combined knowledge is passed down to next slayer. This for exemple allowed Buffy to bested Angel in sword fight - quite impressive feat considering that, to that point she never hold sword in her hand, and broadsword is actually Angel's favorite weapon. :) But what's more important is that it was already proven that Batman lose to people who are simultaneously stronger, faster, more durable than him - Slade, Azrael. And Buffy is just like that: stronger, faster etc.

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis: Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

So suddenly - when he gets older and logicly his body is not working as efficient as it used to when he was youngster - he become significantly stronger? Also this was only an exemple of inconsistency and Bat's fans reliance on over the top showings and ignoring everything else.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Again this is just words with no real meaning, a lot of hot air. Trening is not this same as real combat experience gained in life and death fights with supernatural creatures. For slayers this is not only about training - for them it is do or die. Almost every single slayer in history was trained and in this same time they fought on nightly basis against creatures with powers beyond that of mortal man. Every single night, since ancient Sumerians to present day.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

Not all of them, but they all are stronger, faster and more durable than peak humans. And some of them - like Angelus, Spike, Dracula, etc. actually have centuries of combat experience

Or maybe it's fiction?

He did become stronger over the years,you may not find if logical but in terms of the story and the universe Batman lives in it's perfectly plausible.

So Shiva and Cassandra don't have feats? that's news to me.

Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor,otherwise it's just a cheap excuse a character and not work for it.

Sure it is work of fiction, so what? Is this means that it could be completely illogical? How can you even make a battle when you claim that Batman's stats are in constant flux? Yes Shiva and Cassandra have combat feats, so? We where talking about Ra's, remember not about Shiva and Cass. And they still don't have combined knowledge of every single slayer who ever lived bettwen times of ancient Sumeria and now. Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor??? This same can be said about absolutely everything, including your precious martial arts skills. Also you are acting like you didn't know that every single slayer was trained in martial arts. You know that they all were trained right? You also must know that this combined knowledge is passed down to next slayer. This for exemple allowed Buffy to bested Angel in sword fight - quite impressive feat considering that, to that point she never hold sword in her hand, and broadsword is actually Angel's favorite weapon. :)

What i was trying to say was that Ra's is nowhere near as good as Shiva despite having centuries on her AND Shiva was trained by Ra's own organization.

The whole point of the venom compound orignally was that it CAN be beaten and you can make yourself better without it,that's what the creators envisioned.It's in the recent times that the drug has been abused and overused.Now every tom,dick and harry has venom pills in their pockets.

Batman,Bane and Azrael overcame thier addiction and i can show instances where they performed MUCH better without it than they ever did on it.

The point is that Batman did perform much greater feats without the drug,he became better.Maybe you should check out Vengeance of Bane 2 if you ever get the time.

I know the Slayers are trained but then so are soldiers and ninjas,what is the extent of their training and do so by providing feats for those who are'nt very knowledgeble such as myself,learning is the whole point.So far i have learnt nothing on Buffy.

@entropy_aegis said:

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Picard said:

@entropy_aegis: Batman Venom was written 22 years ago and it was happening at the start of Batman's career.He recently pulled a 600lbs Manbat flying in the opposite direction and swung it.

So suddenly - when he gets older and logicly his body is not working as efficient as it used to when he was youngster - he become significantly stronger? Also this was only an exemple of inconsistency and Bat's fans reliance on over the top showings and ignoring everything else.

Ra's spent has spent his entire life training,his LOA has created the likes of Lady Shiva,Cassandra Cain,Bronze Tiger,Sensei and David Cain all these guys are more skilled than vamps and slayers.

Again this is just words with no real meaning, a lot of hot air. Trening is not this same as real combat experience gained in life and death fights with supernatural creatures. For slayers this is not only about training - for them it is do or die. Almost every single slayer in history was trained and in this same time they fought on nightly basis against creatures with powers beyond that of mortal man. Every single night, since ancient Sumerians to present day.

Demons and monsters are'nt skilled,it's the same dumb argument which Thor and Hercules fans give to prove the so called skills of their favourite characters.

Not all of them, but they all are stronger, faster and more durable than peak humans. And some of them - like Angelus, Spike, Dracula, etc. actually have centuries of combat experience

Or maybe it's fiction?

He did become stronger over the years,you may not find if logical but in terms of the story and the universe Batman lives in it's perfectly plausible.

So Shiva and Cassandra don't have feats? that's news to me.

Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor,otherwise it's just a cheap excuse a character and not work for it.

Sure it is work of fiction, so what? Is this means that it could be completely illogical? How can you even make a battle when you claim that Batman's stats are in constant flux? Yes Shiva and Cassandra have combat feats, so? We where talking about Ra's, remember not about Shiva and Cass. And they still don't have combined knowledge of every single slayer who ever lived bettwen times of ancient Sumeria and now. Centuries of experience is only a factor when the writer makes it a factor??? This same can be said about absolutely everything, including your precious martial arts skills. Also you are acting like you didn't know that every single slayer was trained in martial arts. You know that they all were trained right? You also must know that this combined knowledge is passed down to next slayer. This for exemple allowed Buffy to bested Angel in sword fight - quite impressive feat considering that, to that point she never hold sword in her hand, and broadsword is actually Angel's favorite weapon. :)

What i was trying to say was that Ra's is nowhere near as good as Shiva despite having centuries on her AND Shiva was trained by Ra's own organization.

The whole point of the venom compound orignally was that it CAN be beaten and you can make yourself better without it,that's what the creators envisioned.It's in the recent times that the drug has been abused and overused.Now every tom,dick and harry has venom pills in their pockets.

Batman,Bane and Azrael overcame thier addiction and i can show instances where they performed MUCH better without it than they ever did on it.

The point is that Batman did perform much greater feats without the drug,he became better.Maybe you should check out Vengeance of Bane 2 if you ever get the time.

I know the Slayers are trained but then so are soldiers and ninjas,what is the extent of their training and do so by providing feats for those who are'nt very knowledgeble such as myself,learning is the whole point.So far i have learnt nothing on Buffy.

You know why Shiva is better than Ra's? Because she is assassin/fighter and he is a mastermind/terrorist. This is what I try to say: you used wrong exemple because Ra's has not fought for all this centuries, on nightly basis. Every slayer do that from time she is called, to the time she die, then her experience, skills and powers are passed down to next slayer. This is a part of slayer heritage So cumulated combat skills and knowledge of slayers are greeted than Ra's combat experience. Also how old is he? DC wiki states that he is "only" 600 years ago, when slayers exist since ancient times. About venom... I know what is the meaning of it -it is anti drug allegory, so it is understandeble that Batman without venom is - in some ways - better than when he was on venom. Point of "Batman: Venom" was that Bat's was smarter without drug and he wasn't "puppet" of drug dealers, but he wasn't stronger and faster without Venom. It wouldn't make much sense if he was. Yes, slayers train + they fight for they lifes for the young age, against supernatural creatures who possess powers above peak human. I think that I - and other Whedon fans - explained this rather well. Training? Normaly consist of learning about supernatural, learning different fighting styles - in the series Giles talk about Buffy using hybrid fighting style, so she know at least few martial arts. One of the watcher's council test's consist of using aikido and jiu-jitsu moves to protect the dummy from oponent armed with an axe - all this while being blindfolded. But there is evidence that slayers have brother knowledge about various fighting styles including usage of different types of melee weapons, and crossbows. Probably, depending on time period and country of origin different slayers were trained in different fighting styles, indigenous to this country and appropriate to the time period, plus slayer inherent memories and skills of their predecessors, and part of Watcher job is to wake up those memories:

Also Watchers teach slayers how to use theirs unnatural abilities, how to use their agility and how to fight in complete darkness:

And Cruciamentum allows to test slayer's resourcefulness and cunning when she is deprived of her powers and skills.

Ive heard some good points and while im certainly NOT a huge fan of BATMAN, it makes perfect sense that his intellect keeps him alive. Thats probably part of the reason Batman wasnt killed a long time ago. His intellect is what makes him great. There's ALWAYS a way to WIN, if your SMART enough to think of it....and HE usually is.

Buffy is very resilient and resourceful and THAT has enabled her to survive past what is expected of the average slayer. Slayers are naturally stronger than vampires and a lot of demons but that hasnt stopped many slayers from being killed by them in the past. A lot of Buffy's strength, skill, and character has come from her support system as well.

The Scythe would really be Buffy's ONLY hand up in this battle since Batman isnt brand new at dealing with magical enemies and is NEVER really unprepared .

Anyway you look at it and which ever character you like the most, realistically, the winner could still be either one of the heroes...

OK.

Buffy has been training for this for one year? She gets the drop on Bruce with a scythe wearing night vision goggles in the dark? Bloodlusted Buffy you say?

Ah... but she hand't anticipated the almighty 'Vampire Slayer' proximity repellent emitters Bruce had installed for just the ocassion!

...

Without serious plot device, I don't see Batman getting out of this one. Good thing there's always plot device! :)

Buffy wins, until someone comes up with an argument that basically isn't the equivalent of Batman wins BECAUSE he's Batman.

@allwalledup: batman deals with super powered beings when he has pre time to create a plan to take down a certain opponent,he would be crushed in a rndom fight against darksied,amazo,superman,batman can't facer them without time to prepare an strategy for the certain opponent that he will fight,he is preapared with a plant before the fight,in a random encounter he'd be crushed,and that's what will happen here against buffy,because he hasn't pre,he doesn't know her capabilities either,he doesn't even know that who she is,and that she will fight him.

Batman all the way. I've been a Buffy fan since day one, and Buffy has no special vulnerabilities to gas, electric shock, smoke, or any of the other tricks Batman always carries with him. Even if Batman is caught by surprise...Buffy is not so much faster than Batman that he can't hang and react. In the comics AND the show, Buffy has been tagged by regular humans plenty of times - Batman is far beyond regular. It's not a complete stomp, but I see no way for Buffy to win this.

This one would be a good fight. I would say Buffy wins since she has also dealt with supernatural beings and she seems alot faster and more skilled in combat. even though Bruce is a mixed Martial Artist its taken him longer to take out multiple guys in a fight than Buffy has dealt with.

I will give this win to Buffy.

@CitizenBane: when you say that batman beat stronger opponents than him,you mean characters like bane right?,please don't tell me that you talk about the ridiculous PIS moments like batman tagging and hurting wonder woman,because that is pure trash.

Buffy would annihilate Batman, she wouldn't need any prep. Tv Buffy would even stomp him she's stronger and faster and probably almost as good a fighter.

Batman wins. Batman knows over a hundred more different Martial Arts than Buffy ever will know. 1 Year of training isnt enough to have all the styles and skills Bruce has.

Batman would win however, hes not that abusive towards women.

@Batman1000000: How could Batman win when she's, stronger, faster, and more agile than him, the only thing he has in his favour is training and Buffy trains too albeit not as much.

Batman.

@e3zombie said:

Batman.

Loses

Batman.

@SSJLozza said:

@Batman1000000: How could Batman win when she's, stronger, faster, and more agile than him, the only thing he has in his favour is training and Buffy trains too albeit not as much.

you must mean how could he lose right? buffy without the magic of twilight from the comics would get dusted. im a fan of the show and comic....well the comics kinda lame angel after the fall was way more interesting. but the op is bloodlusted and batman has all his tools..... including explosives and razor sharp projectiles, tazers, smoke bombs and flash bangs and also knockout gas among hundreds of other things potentially. tv and pre twilight buffy has never shown durability enough to tank a grenade or even survive it, warren shot her and she nearly died...... batman stomps then rapes.

and for all the nutthuggers saying she beat a god,glory was severly depowered and not at god status when buffy fought her so people can stop saying that immediately, and keep in mind glory trashed her a few times easily till she got the magic troll hammer and according to illyria she wasnt even as strong as the old ones when she was a god.