Buffy wins in a good fight. Speed wise they are very much on par. Skill wise the same. However Buffy is much stronger by feats, more blunt force durable too, and has the Slayer Scythe that will cut down Cassandra.
@monsterstomp: How well does Cassie really use gear though? I would think Cassie would just try to disarm Buffy and then go H2H. Buffy really likes using weapons and one of the lessons during season 5 Spike taught her(about how he killed Slayers) is that a Slayer must always go for her weapon.
@monsterstomp: How well does Cassie really use gear though? I would think Cassie would just try to disarm Buffy and then go H2H. Buffy really likes using weapons and one of the lessons during season 5 Spike taught her(about how he killed Slayers) is that a Slayer must always go for her weapon.
Cassie doesn't use her gear much. She never really needed to. Cass may not go for weapons at first, she'd try lethal nerve strikes/pinches. If that doesn't work, then don't be surprised if she disarms and uses Buffy's weapons against her.
@monsterstomp: How well does Cassie really use gear though? I would think Cassie would just try to disarm Buffy and then go H2H. Buffy really likes using weapons and one of the lessons during season 5 Spike taught her(about how he killed Slayers) is that a Slayer must always go for her weapon.
Cassie doesn't use her gear much. She never really needed to. Cass may not go for weapons at first, she'd try lethal nerve strikes/pinches. If that doesn't work, then don't be surprised if she disarms and uses Buffy's weapons against her.
Thats a big claim using Buffy's weapons against her. Buggy is mad skill, and has the stat advantage.
@cmcmcmcm: I don't think its a big claim. Cass is comfortably one of the most skilled fighters in DC. Second to Drakon, in my opinion. Cass has the body reading and speed to compliment.
Going with Cassie...I think. She should have more speed and though Buffy is strong, it's not like she hasn't fought strong characters before (she embarrassed Bizarro Supergirl). That said, I think I need to consult an expert...@bat_girl_cc
@allstarsuperman: Show is good it's on netflix. Just keep in mind it started in the 90s so the special effects would be considered low grade compared to what we see now on TV Budgets.
Going with Cassie...I think. She should have more speed and though Buffy is strong, it's not like she hasn't fought strong characters before (she embarrassed Bizarro Supergirl). That said, I think I need to consult an expert...@bat_girl_cc
@cmcmcmcm: I don't think its a big claim. Cass is comfortably one of the most skilled fighters in DC. Second to Drakon, in my opinion. Cass has the body reading and speed to compliment.
Im sorry but why is Cass faster?
One scan here shows her as a after image blitzing a powerful demon before it could react. 5th scan here shows Buffy moving faster than the bullet fired from a gun, she moves after they are fired at the person she is trying to protect. multiple scans are bullet timing. Last three scans is her blitzing Vampires by the dozen.
Buffy blitzes Vampires like seen in the last few scans, Vampires are insane fast!
Scans 1-3 include closing 10+ yards worth of distance in a blink of the eye. Able to fully catch and crossbow shot at the back from close range. Able to dodge bullets after they are fired at them. Hell, scan 4 is a common Vampire blitzing police officers and is shown as a blur. Scan 7 is Angel blitzing other super fast Vampires running away from him, and Buffy matches him him speed easy. Scan 9 is Spike as a blur casually. Scan 8 is Angel dodging bullets and arrows after being fired at him. Scan 10 shows Vampires have such high reaction speed, that Spike can sense Illyria moving around as a blur even though she nearly froze time to a stand still.
Also Buffy is one of the most skilled fighters in her Universe, and other Universes for that matter. Buffy as Slayer has innate skill and memories of all the Slayers trained and killed before them.
Read all this to get the idea. She has their memories at the subconscious level, gifting her a innate skill and knowledge even though she never seen a Vampire or fought anyone in her life.
Not only Buffy has Innate skill, but she is trained for several years by the Watchers in all forms of Martial Arts, and fighting skills.
Including to fight blind against super fast Vampires.
Buffy skill and training is no joke, not to mention the wealth of combat experience. Same for Angel and Spike who also have over 200 years of fighting demons and vampire hunting humans, showing the skills to match Buffy and other Slayers. Yet Buffy beats them all the time in a fight.
Add to the comparable skill for sure, and speeds, Buffy is stronger, and more Durable to a large degree.
Why is Cass faster than these feats? She is not. More Batgirl wanking :/
@cmcmcmcm: I never said Cass was faster. I said she had the speed to compliment her body reading. Now, I deleted all of my Cass scans ages ago, because... I don't know, thought I was done with comics. Spamming the thread with scans isn't a case. That's the equivalent to me trying to make a claim and you constantly talking over me dropping facts. It just makes me not want to respond.
Your first set of scans show nothing Cass couldn't replicate or do better. Bullet-timing? Check that, Cass has dodged sniper bullets inches away from her head without looking... as a child. Moving at blur speed? She's done that in fights with her mother. Not to mention the two times she's outpaced bullets (with and without body reading). Blitzing? Cass has blitzed so fast that time seems frozen. Cass has moved so fast that people like Batman couldn't perceive her (and we all know how fast Batman is).
Then Cassie should be considered a metahuman, and DC needs to be done with it. I mean, I can suspend my disbelief in what a comic character can do, but come on. All of the things she does, no matter what level of training a person has, no matter the conditioning they go through, could anyone ever come out as a regular human in Cass Cain or Drakons league. Sorry, she is either being overhyped, or the battles are taken out of context. So, she's either a meta or she's not. If she's not Buffy crushes. This is all my opinion.
Then Cassie should be considered a metahuman, and DC needs to be done with it. I mean, I can suspend my disbelief in what a comic character can do, but come on. All of the things she does, no matter what level of training a person has, no matter the conditioning they go through, could anyone ever come out as a regular human in Cass Cain or Drakons league. Sorry, she is either being overhyped, or the battles are taken out of context. So, she's either a meta or she's not. If she's not Buffy crushes. This is all my opinion.
Then Cassie should be considered a metahuman, and DC needs to be done with it. I mean, I can suspend my disbelief in what a comic character can do, but come on. All of the things she does, no matter what level of training a person has, no matter the conditioning they go through, could anyone ever come out as a regular human in Cass Cain or Drakons league. Sorry, she is either being overhyped, or the battles are taken out of context. So, she's either a meta or she's not. If she's not Buffy crushes. This is all my opinion.
I see this logic far too often in the battle forum. But logic has to be open-minded when talking about fiction. "Meta-human > Peak human" isn't factual when Batman (peak human) can break through supposed rocket proof glass and a fodder meta-human can't. Deathstroke is meta-human and crushed Batman on multiple occasions without focusing his attention completely on him.
@monsterstomp: The PIS runs deep in the Batfamily. I'm not saying that as a hater. I generally like Batman's stuff, but some of his accomplishments have a strong stench of PIS to them, even if they make for totally enjoyable moments. Sometimes it comes down to his gear, others it's the suit, but when a what the hell moment comes from Batman without either it exudes PIS. Like I said some of my favorites in comics are in the Batfamily, it's just hard to suspend my disbelief on some of the things they pull. Oh, and for the record when you look at the DC heirarchy you'll notice a trend:
Justice League leader: 9 times out of 10 its usually Batman
Outsiders Reboot leader: Most of the time it was Nightwing
Teen Titans leader: For majority of their history has always been a "Robin" in one form or another.
I will give them strategy, tactics and smarts all day long, but that's as far as they really should go. The things they do to fodder goons I can live with, but when they enter the world of Metas, I kind of get the WTF face, and go really?
Then Cassie should be considered a metahuman, and DC needs to be done with it. I mean, I can suspend my disbelief in what a comic character can do, but come on. All of the things she does, no matter what level of training a person has, no matter the conditioning they go through, could anyone ever come out as a regular human in Cass Cain or Drakons league. Sorry, she is either being overhyped, or the battles are taken out of context. So, she's either a meta or she's not. If she's not Buffy crushes. This is all my opinion.
I see this logic far too often in the battle forum. But logic has to be open-minded when talking about fiction. "Meta-human > Peak human" isn't factual when Batman (peak human) can break through supposed rocket proof glass and a fodder meta-human can't. Deathstroke is meta-human and crushed Batman on multiple occasions without focusing his attention completely on him.
Its honestly all about the feats they perform.
By feats she lose to Batman in a fight as well. Yet her speed feats suggest Batman by feats could never land a hand on her. Her speed feats would equal to Spider Man, running at Mach 1-2 range.
Going with Cassie...I think. She should have more speed and though Buffy is strong, it's not like she hasn't fought strong characters before (she embarrassed Bizarro Supergirl). That said, I think I need to consult an expert...@bat_girl_cc
@cmcmcmcm: I don't think its a big claim. Cass is comfortably one of the most skilled fighters in DC. Second to Drakon, in my opinion. Cass has the body reading and speed to compliment.
Im sorry but why is Cass faster?
One scan here shows her as a after image blitzing a powerful demon before it could react. 5th scan here shows Buffy moving faster than the bullet fired from a gun, she moves after they are fired at the person she is trying to protect. multiple scans are bullet timing. Last three scans is her blitzing Vampires by the dozen.
Buffy blitzes Vampires like seen in the last few scans, Vampires are insane fast!
Scans 1-3 include closing 10+ yards worth of distance in a blink of the eye. Able to fully catch and crossbow shot at the back from close range. Able to dodge bullets after they are fired at them. Hell, scan 4 is a common Vampire blitzing police officers and is shown as a blur. Scan 7 is Angel blitzing other super fast Vampires running away from him, and Buffy matches him him speed easy. Scan 9 is Spike as a blur casually. Scan 8 is Angel dodging bullets and arrows after being fired at him. Scan 10 shows Vampires have such high reaction speed, that Spike can sense Illyria moving around as a blur even though she nearly froze time to a stand still.
All of this is under Cassandra's pay grade. She has also moved in blur speeds, out ran bullets, [Which isn't even a combat related feat.] blitzed dozens of armed men, and dodge a sniper round at the last second. And fighting people doesn't make you as fast as them. Also Buffy is one of the most skilled fighters in her Universe, and other Universes for that matter. Buffy as Slayer has innate skill and memories of all the Slayers trained and killed before them.
Read all this to get the idea. She has their memories at the subconscious level, gifting her a innate skill and knowledge even though she never seen a Vampire or fought anyone in her life.
Not only Buffy has Innate skill, but she is trained for several years by the Watchers in all forms of Martial Arts, and fighting skills.
Including to fight blind against super fast Vampires.
Buffy skill and training is no joke, not to mention the wealth of combat experience. Same for Angel and Spike who also have over 200 years of fighting demons and vampire hunting humans, showing the skills to match Buffy and other Slayers. Yet Buffy beats them all the time in a fight.
Nothing special here. Unless they have feats to back these claims it's all pretty much irrelevant. Same goes for the vampires. Fighting people for long periods of time just means you have experience. Doesn't mean your overly skilled. Cassandra goes toe to toe with the likes of Deathstroke and Batman. [Beings of far superior skill when in comparison to Buffy.]
Add to the comparable skill for sure, [Cassandra possess superior skill.] and speeds, [Cassandra has the superior speed.] Buffy is stronger, [Agreed, but I don't see her strength helping her much.] and more Durable [Cassandra can work around this through the use of pressure points.] to a large degree.
Why is Cass faster than these feats? She is not. [She really is.] More Batgirl wanking [Sorry but this is pretty poor debating. I guess that because I disagree with you your wanking Buffy. I'm mean that's basically your logic. I made one response and apparently I'm wanking a character? Heck, I didn't even Cassandra would stomp yet I'm still wanking. If your just going to tell me that I'm wanking the character than what's the purpose of debating with you? But that's just my opinion.].:/
@monsterstomp: Yeah, I'm not trying to be that guy that takes a fictional character, and picks apart everything he does. Then say yes that was PIS, but given the world they live in, and the physics established, they wouldn't be normal humans. I'll probably get flack for it, but Nolan's portrayal of a real life Batman was probably as accurate as you can get. Time will tell with Dawn of Justice movie, but Affleck will more than likely be the Batman you see in the Justice League comics.
@cmcmcmcm: By feats, a fight against Batman would be arguable.
By feats Batman beaten her already. So we know he wins cause thats how it goes down. Its BS then. Nothing is sacred and all of it is limit to what writers want then.
Anyway, I stick to Buffy. As skilled, as fast, but better in durability and strength by alot.
@cmcmcmcm: By feats, a fight against Batman would be arguable.
By feats Batman beaten her already. So we know he wins cause thats how it goes down. Its BS then. Nothing is sacred and all of it is limit to what writers want then.
When did this happen? I heard he's given her a good fight, never beaten her though. Even if he did, context is crucial.
@monsterstomp: It was when she lost her move reading.
For all suppose super speed and such, Batman owned her. Even if this is a case where her move reading was gone, the fact is she could not beat Batman with her super speed alone.
Fast enough to out pace bullets?
To slow to dodge a grapple line?
To slow to keep Nightwing from yanking her back?
Hmmm........ In no way is she faster than Buffy IMO. All she has is move reading, and that is not that useful on foes her speed level, or have as much experience as Buffy. Much less tanking a hit from Buffy insane strength and weapons like the Slayer Scythe.
Heck with Buffy's accuracy I can see Batgirl dropping to this.
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