• 103 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Edited by The Stegman (24426 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules: 
 
- Morals OFF   
-Current versions of both characters, Angel as seen currently in "Angel & Faith" Buffy as seen in "Buffy Season 9"
-Angel is NOT Angelus, but he wants to kill Buffy 
-Buffy wants to kill Angel as well 
-Fight takes place at midnight  
-Fighters start off ten feet apart from one another.
-Location: 
  

 
-ROUND ONE: Unarmed combat, win via k.o or incapacitation 
 
-ROUND TWO: Buffy gets her Slayer Scythe, Angel gets a Broadsword  
 
Time to settle it once and for all, who wins? The Slayer or The Champion? 
 
 VS

#2 Posted by Wolfrazer (6737 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this going off of comics or tv series? Though I always preferred Angel over Buffy, she was still good though.

#3 Posted by The Stegman (24426 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wolfrazer: Both, it's current versions of each, Buffy as she currently is in Season Nine, Angel as he currently is in Angel & Faith.
#4 Posted by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@Wolfrazer: Both, it's current versions of each, Buffy as she currently is in Season Nine, Angel as he currently is in Angel & Faith.

Buffy already defeated Angel - good and bad - on many occasions. Angel vs. Spike would be more fair and more interesting

#5 Edited by Voorhees100 (258 posts) - - Show Bio

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. 
 
Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

#6 Posted by The Stegman (24426 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard: If you're speaking of Buffy beating Angelus at the end of season 3, she didn't really beat him, they were fairly even, then Angel got his soul back, stopped fighting, and she stabbed him with a sword (which wouldn't kill him) and he fell into a portal, hardly a victory, other than that, which instance has Buffy clearly beat him? 
 
As for Angel vs Spike, it's not any fairer, for over a Century, Spike fought Angel, and for over a century, he lost to him, Angel is faster, stronger, more experienced and older than Spike, the only time Spike beat Angel was fighting for the Cup of Torment, and that was because Angel was fighting defensively, trying to get the cup, while Spike was actually fighting to best Angel. Even after that fight, A Human Angel in the comics knocked Spike on his butt twice without really trying.
#7 Edited by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio

@Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority

#8 Posted by charlieboy (7160 posts) - - Show Bio

i think buffy would win. she generally seems to be a bit more skilled combat wise. 

#9 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't this been done? I think buffy would win both rounds.

#10 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

#11 Posted by Picard (999 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

#12 Edited by Voorhees100 (258 posts) - - Show Bio
@Picard:  
 



Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority 


Yes, i've seen every episode, but I think we are remembering it differently. 
 
1. In Innocence, They fight in the mall but she clearly DID NOT win the fight, they were evenly matched, Buffy kicked him into a plant, he got up and said "You can't do it, can you? you can't kill me?'' she then kicked him in the groin and walked away, that is not a win, that is her getting an upper hand and conceding the fight. 
 
2. In Passion. The whole entire point of the episode was Angelus tormenting and getting in Buffy's head, he wasn't even fighting back in their confrontation, he was tanking her blows and even laughed when she knocked him down before asking will she "Let her old man (Giles) burn" she again, concedes the fight and leaves. 
 
3. In Becoming. They are evenly matched in fighting ability, Willow restores his soul, he STOPS FIGHTING, and is disoriented, she then stabs him with the sword while his guard is down and pushes him into the hell portal, she didn't beat him, he was barely even aware of where he was. 
 
4. In Beauty & the Beasts.  She beat a feral, mindless Angel who once again had no idea where he was, and was in shock from spending 100 years in hell. That's like me saying "Oh Robin Wood beat Mindless Spike to a pulp, so that should count" 
 
Buffy has never, beaten Angel when he is actually fighting seriously, each time they fought he was either toying with her, or didn't want to actually kill her. 
#13 Edited by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@Voorhees100 said:

@Picard:  
 



Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority 


Yes, i've seen every episode, but I think we are remembering it differently. 
 
1. In Innocence, They fight in the mall but she clearly DID NOT win the fight, they were evenly matched, Buffy kicked him into a plant, he got up and said "You can't do it, can you? you can't kill me?'' she then kicked him in the groin and walked away, that is not a win, that is her getting an upper hand and conceding the fight. 
 
2. In Passion. The whole entire point of the episode was Angelus tormenting and getting in Buffy's head, he wasn't even fighting back in their confrontation, he was tanking her blows and even laughed when she knocked him down before asking will she "Let her old man (Giles) burn" she again, concedes the fight and leaves. 
 
3. In Becoming. They are evenly matched in fighting ability, Willow restores his soul, he STOPS FIGHTING, and is disoriented, she then stabs him with the sword while his guard is down and pushes him into the hell portal, she didn't beat him, he was barely even aware of where he was. 
 
4. In Beauty & the Beasts.  She beat a feral, mindless Angel who once again had no idea where he was, and was in shock from spending 100 years in hell. That's like me saying "Oh Robin Wood beat Mindless Spike to a pulp, so that should count"  Buffy has never, beaten Angel when he is actually fighting seriously, each time they fought he was either toying with her, or didn't want to actually kill her. 
...... 
 
 
  http://gorillavid.in/vid/hprog1vtp551  
34:30 
 

37:43


37:52 
 
Yeah....no. 

Seriously...every single slayer that angel has ever fought has almost killed him. Buffy, Faith, Kendra, Dana, and he even got punked by Mini slayers in training on his own show. Your bias/untruthful version of what happened in buffys fights with angel aside....she stomps.
#14 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

i think buffy would win. she generally seems to be a bit more skilled combat wise.

I believe she is.

#15 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

ends up in sex. The viewer wins

#16 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job: I agree with ya

buffy stomps hard.......LOL

#17 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job: I thought voorhees was u on an alt account since you love jason alot.

#18 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

Buffy.

#19 Posted by hyperbeing (382 posts) - - Show Bio

id say its more or less of a tie . i mean angel and buffy are somewhat equel in terms of fighting skill and both are skilled stratagists.ut angel can take a few more heavier hits the n budffy due to the fact he is undead. also angel more recently seems alot more competent then buffy.in soem areas. id say more angel then buffy. but in the true win stratagy and endurance prevails

#20 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbeing said:

id say its more or less of a tie . i mean angel and buffy are somewhat equel in terms of fighting skill and both are skilled stratagists.ut angel can take a few more heavier hits the n budffy due to the fact he is undead. also angel more recently seems alot more competent then buffy.in soem areas. id say more angel then buffy. but in the true win stratagy and endurance prevails

Good point, but way i see it... I like Angel alot better... better show, but Buffy would take this.

#21 Posted by hyperbeing (382 posts) - - Show Bio

angel has the advantage of being undead if bufft breaks his neck he will be stunnded a little if he breaks buffies neck she will e diead. also angel has more knowledgeo n buffy fighting style then she does of his fighting style.

#22 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

#23 Edited by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

#24 Edited by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

 Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a  sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.
#25 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

I think you're just as guilty of slanting the truth as your opponents. In "Innocence", Buffy won after an extremely hard fight and because Angelus was more concerned with goading her than killing her; in "Passion", Buffy won because Angelus had just been thoroughly clobbered by a pissed off Giles and his Louisville slugger; in "Killed By Death", Angelus is about to kill a sick Buffy before Xander and company intervene; in "Go Fish", the fight is a stalemate-- Buffy kicks him in the head, Angel picks up Gage and throws him at her, knocking her down before retreating; in "Becoming, Part I", their fight is again a stalemate, with Angelus having the upper hand-- though neither of them is trying to kill the other. Buffy realizes this and retreats. In "Becoming, Part II", Angel wins the duel and has her on her ass before taunting her into rage.

Angel is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with Buffy and conceivably killing her; the problem is that Angelus likes to run his mouth. Since I assume we set such PIS aside in versus fights, this is a very close one indeed.

As far as the rest is concerned, Angel's defeat by Kendra is suspect when you consider the fact that she was trying to kill him whereas we don't know if he was trying to kill her; in fact, he only threatens her after she threatens Buffy, at which point the fight is already over.

With Faith, the first time they fight is in "Revelations" in which Angel is still weakened tremendously from his time in the hell dimension (Buffy comments on Angel's poor condition during the events of "Lover's Walk", one episode later). They clash again in "Enemies", and Faith throws Angel into the onrushing company of Xander, Willow, and others-- it isn't a fight at all. When they fight in "Five By Five", Angel restrains himself the entire time because he knows Faith is essentially trying to commit suicide by vampire. In "Orpheus", Angelus ultimately defeated Faith in their fight (again, due to taunting); but had both she and Wesley at his mercy early on and could have killed her with the shotgun before tossing it aside.

And Dana is the most silly example of them all; Angel spent the entire episode trying to persuade Spike that Dana should be captured and treated, not killed. When they fight at the end of "Damage", he ultimately overcomes her and has Wesley and the Wolfram & Hart strike team tranquilize her.

Trying to remove context from the duels is pointless. There is pretty much no encounter that I remember in which Angel lost to a Slayer by virtue of being completely outclassed; he either restrained himself because of moral concerns or, as Angelus, was preoccupied with tormenting them verbally.

Angel still loses, but it is (as it has always been between the two of them at full strength), extremely close.

#26 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

If neither of them have killed the other than we'd trully will never know who would win by a battle until death match will we? I agree buffy would win hands down, but if people give you the same arguments " ignore " them even though i have a hard time doing it....its just a debate don't get upset over it buddy.

#27 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

We've already established that you chronically and compulsively distort and disregard context when it pertains to Angel (maybe the problem is that people aren't picking Angel because they like him, but rather you vote against Angel because you dislike him?). As I said, if Angelus wanted Buffy dead, why didn't he kill her in her sleep? For all her Slayer senses, he was able to break into her room, sit on her bed, touch her face, and even take the time to draw her (half hour, hours?). Angel's aptitude for stealth transcends Buffy's skills at detection. When he had her disarmed in "Becoming, Part II", why not stab her in the face immediately after disarming her? Or when he had Faith on her ass in "Orpheus", why not shoot her with the shotgun? Or is Faith bullet proof?

Leave your Angel-hate at the door and start using your head. I agree that he loses, but you're exaggerating to the extreme pretending that it would be, in any way, a stomp.

#28 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said:

@Job said:

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

I think you're just as guilty of slanting the truth as your opponents. In "Innocence", Buffy won after an extremely hard fight and because Angelus was more concerned with goading her than killing her; in "Passion", Buffy won because Angelus had just been thoroughly clobbered by a pissed off Giles and his Louisville slugger; in "Killed By Death", Angelus is about to kill a sick Buffy before Xander and company intervene; in "Go Fish", the fight is a stalemate-- Buffy kicks him in the head, Angel picks up Gage and throws him at her, knocking her down before retreating; in "Becoming, Part I", their fight is again a stalemate, with Angelus having the upper hand-- though neither of them is trying to kill the other. Buffy realizes this and retreats. In "Becoming, Part II", Angel wins the duel and has her on her ass before taunting her into rage.

Angel is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with Buffy and conceivably killing her; the problem is that Angelus likes to run his mouth. Since I assume we set such PIS aside in versus fights, this is a very close one indeed.

As far as the rest is concerned, Angel's defeat by Kendra is suspect when you consider the fact that she was trying to kill him whereas we don't know if he was trying to kill her; in fact, he only threatens her after she threatens Buffy, at which point the fight is already over.

With Faith, the first time they fight is in "Revelations" in which Angel is still weakened tremendously from his time in the hell dimension (Buffy comments on Angel's poor condition during the events of "Lover's Walk", one episode later). They clash again in "Enemies", and Faith throws Angel into the onrushing company of Xander, Willow, and others-- it isn't a fight at all. When they fight in "Five By Five", Angel restrains himself the entire time because he knows Faith is essentially trying to commit suicide by vampire. In "Orpheus", Angelus ultimately defeated Faith in their fight (again, due to taunting); but had both she and Wesley at his mercy early on and could have killed her with the shotgun before tossing it aside.

And Dana is the most silly example of them all; Angel spent the entire episode trying to persuade Spike that Dana should be captured and treated, not killed. When they fight at the end of "Damage", he ultimately overcomes her and has Wesley and the Wolfram & Hart strike team tranquilize her.

Trying to remove context from the duels is pointless. There is pretty much no encounter that I remember in which Angel lost to a Slayer by virtue of being completely outclassed; he either restrained himself because of moral concerns or, as Angelus, was preoccupied with tormenting them verbally.

Angel still loses, but it is (as it has always been between the two of them at full strength), extremely close.

Yes..i posted the video links......buffy dominated angel...end of discussion

Angel has tanked Grenades to the face, C4, has been ran over by a truck. had the truck back over him again..and then hit him again..only for him to get up with little damage. Saying giles hurt angel,  with a baseball bat while angel pretty much shrugged off every blow..is you making excuses. Angel has been beaten with Sledge Hammers in his face..after being ran over 4 times...got up...and was barely hurt. Buffy won get over it. 
 
... buffy was so weak from the flu she passed out after angel fled.....(this is important context) LOL...giles hitting angel with a  bat..is worth mentioning but not this..k
 
I dont care about what you find suspect..you're clearly bias........Kendra dominated angel. Angel knows how to fight without killing..so i dont know why you're even using this as an excuse... 

  Buffy dominated angel in becoming..the link was posted 
 
....angel states he intended to kill faith....he did not restrain himself....he got his face beat in...he stated he was going to kill her..and wes even stated that She had to have done something to buffy (which she did) for angel to be so bloodthirsty.....faith wanted to lost and still dominated angel (this is important context) Angel changing his mind mid face beating is supposed toi change that...lol nope
 
angel had been back on earth for weeks if not months...he made no mention of any injury in the episode...(important context)
 
...faith was drugged in Orpheus...and still beat angelus face in..before SHE LET him bite her..which was part of the plan. (this is important context)  
 
LMFAO... Angle and spike got owned by dana...the end. Angel didnt over come anyone..he had his hired goons shoot her with tranqs. 
  
Angel gets dominated. It is not extremely close. kendra dominated...faith dominated..buffy when not holding back because of her love for him..dominated.
#29 Edited by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@G1d3on said:

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

We've already established that you chronically and compulsively distort and disregard context when it pertains to Angel (maybe the problem is that people aren't picking Angel because they like him, but rather you vote against Angel because you dislike him?). As I said, if Angelus wanted Buffy dead, why didn't he kill her in her sleep? For all her Slayer senses, he was able to break into her room, sit on her bed, touch her face, and even take the time to draw her (half hour, hours?). Angel's aptitude for stealth transcends Buffy's skills at detection. When he had her disarmed in "Becoming, Part II", why not stab her in the face immediately after disarming her? Or when he had Faith on her ass in "Orpheus", why not shoot her with the shotgun? Or is Faith bullet proof?

Leave your Angel-hate at the door and start using your head. I agree that he loses, but you're exaggerating to the extreme pretending that it would be, in any way, a stomp.

Yes blah blah blah blah Job you liar...even tho you posted links to the fights i'll call you a distortion artists....and i think angel tossing someone into buffy and then running = a fight.......i heard you
 
Yes..i own all of angels comics and dvds because..i hate him oh so much.....it has nothing to do with you being bias... you're right..i'm caught. 
 
As i said...why couldnt angel kill buffy when she wasn't sleeping? I mean is that it? Is that all you have..angel could have killed her in her sleep...ok...and? This has what to do with the fact that he wasn't holding back in becoming? Oh thats right nothing. Its just a very very very very very very poor excuse that doesnt hold up to common sense. 

Yes angel was able to break into someones room and touch their face..while they were sleeping. gee what happened in the very fist episode angel was introduced... didn't he follow buffy...she noticed...got the drop on him and almost staked him? Well i mean its not nearly as impressive as being snuck up on while sleeping.   Buffy has fought the invisble and blind folded....she was able to avoid being detected by the initiative before taking them out in 12 seconds. But hey...she was awake.....if only they caught her sleeping...that would show how really tough they are, I mean its not like angel was caught sleeping by eve and had a demon attached to his chest...right? 
 
...why not stab her in thef ace immediately?  LOL...do you hear yourself?
 
 wait....wasnt she DRUGGED....didnt he get his face beat in anyway? lol im so done with you 
 
Buffy stomps
#30 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

angel states he intended to kill faith

No he did not, he was going to help Faith. I'm not saying Angel wins here, but Angel fighting in Five by Five was definitely not bloodthirsty.

#31 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

angel states he intended to kill faith

No he did not, he was going to help Faith.

No he wasnt going to kill her........despite wes's pleas not to......he wasnt going to help faith..he even stated he thought she was beyond help........ 
#32 Posted by Revenge_Of_Chucky (453 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job: What would you do if they made a movie about this and Angel Killed Buffy? Chopped her up into tiny pieces and then fed her to the birds? Would you lose sleep over it?

#33 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job:

"She needs help."
"Help?! Do you have any idea what she did to me?!"
"Yes."
"Do you care?"
"She wants to change, she has a chance to."

Besides, a bloodlusted Angel looks more like their encounter from Release.

#34 Edited by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job:

"She needs help."
"Help?! Do you have any idea what she did to me?!"
"Yes."
"Do you care?"
"She wants to change, she has a chance to."

So basically...you took the dialogue at the end of the show..at which point he did want to help her....and you know..not the dialogue before he realized she was trying to commit suicide..you know...the mindset he had when they were fighting....which went something like 
  
WESLEY
I'm sorry. But if you let your
emotion control you right now one of
you will certainly end up dead. 

ANGEL
That's what the lady wants… 

WESLEY
(a bit in his face)
That's not good enough. She's not a
demon, Angel. She's a sick, sick
girl. If there's even a chance she
could be reasoned with-- 

ANGEL
There was. Last year I had a shot at
saving her, I was pulling her back
from the brink when some British guy
kidnapped her and made damn sure
she'd never trust another living soul.  
 
 
'
#35 Posted by Revenge_Of_Chucky (453 posts) - - Show Bio

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

#36 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, I see an Angel pissed off at Wesley for letting Faith reach such a point, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire episode Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

#37 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

#38 Posted by Revenge_Of_Chucky (453 posts) - - Show Bio

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

LOL I know it was a joke......... I was doing it to see what Job would say.

#39 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

LOL I know it was a joke......... I was doing it to see what Job would say.

Okay...good lol

#40 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

No you wouldnt...i mean Wesley clearly states he thinks angel is going to kill Faith...Angel states he will give her what she wants (death) and then goes hunting her....... 
 
yes she was shouting fight back because he knew  if she wanted tokill him..he would have been dead. Once again...this is the end...of the episode..this has nothing to do with his mindset before and during the fight..which was to get even.......she attacked them because she knew if she did..he'd kill her....and once again...which he was going to do until the end.....im not going to sit here and argue with you...wes and angel discussion clearl showed angel wanting her dead... changing his mind in the last 10 seconds of the fight doesn't mean anything other than.....he changed his mind at the lat 20 seconds of the fight. Im discussing this..if you disagree....k
#41 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

No you wouldnt...i mean Wesley clearly states he thinks angel is going to kill Faith...Angel states he will give her what she wants (death) and then goes hunting her....... yes she was shouting fight back because he knew if she wanted tokill him..he would have been dead. Once again...this is the end...of the episode..this has nothing to do with his mindset before and during the fight..which was to get even.......she attacked them because she knew if she did..he'd kill her....and once again...which he was going to do until the end.....im not going to sit here and argue with you...wes and angel discussion clearl showed angel wanting her dead... changing his mind in the last 10 seconds of the fight doesn't mean anything other than.....he changed his mind at the lat 20 seconds of the fight. Im discussing this..if you disagree....k

Angel wasn't trying, and again the only thing your quote showed was Angel telling Wesley it's his fault that Faith can't trust anybody. He never entered that fight intending to kill her, otherwise he would have landed plenty of more blows. He was never in the game, that's why Faith kept trying. If you disagree, then fine. I said what I needed to.

#42 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

No you wouldnt...i mean Wesley clearly states he thinks angel is going to kill Faith...Angel states he will give her what she wants (death) and then goes hunting her....... yes she was shouting fight back because he knew if she wanted tokill him..he would have been dead. Once again...this is the end...of the episode..this has nothing to do with his mindset before and during the fight..which was to get even.......she attacked them because she knew if she did..he'd kill her....and once again...which he was going to do until the end.....im not going to sit here and argue with you...wes and angel discussion clearl showed angel wanting her dead... changing his mind in the last 10 seconds of the fight doesn't mean anything other than.....he changed his mind at the lat 20 seconds of the fight. Im discussing this..if you disagree....k

Angel wasn't trying, and again the only thing your quote showed was Angel telling Wesley it's his fault that Faith can't trust anybody. He never entered that fight intending to kill her, otherwise he would have landed plenty of more blows. He was never in the game, that's why Faith kept trying. If you disagree, then fine. I said what I needed to.

 

Angel wasn't trying..if he was..he would have landed more hits...LOl like he did in his first fight with faith? Brilliant  
  
WESLEY
I'm sorry. But if you let your
emotion control you right now one of
you will certainly end up dead.
 
 ANGEL
That's what the lady wants…
 
 
the end 
 
Dialogue >>>personal opinion 

its not as ironclad as saying if he was serious he would have fought better..but
#43 Posted by Shawnbaby (10774 posts) - - Show Bio

One is a Vampire.
The Other is a Vampire Slayer.
Do the Math.  
 
Buffy Wins.

#44 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

#45 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him 
 
I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 
 
1. She wanted him alive  
2.She was still injured from the beast
3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 
4. LOL she still beat his face in
#46 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive and refused to try. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after (literally right after) the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.

"You didn't shoot to kill, we're gonna have to up the stakes, get you in the game a little."

@Job said:

the end
Dialogue >>>personal opinion

I concur

#47 Posted by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.


Faith dominated angel in fight 1.......and fight 2......the end.

 
yup she gave him again stated if he didnt go for the kill she would kill him..left.....what was some of that dialogue?
 
\
 
FAITH
Dude, I'm gettin paid! They hate you 
almost as much as I do.
ANGEL
Did it ever occur to you this might
be more fun for me? 
 
Nope that doesn't sound like a guy looking for vengeance  
 
Yes i heard you the first 665464 times...Angel wanted to save faith..so he planned on barely defending himself and getting beaten to a bloody pulp.
#48 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.


Faith dominated angel in fight 1.......and fight 2......the end.


yup she gave him again stated if he didnt go for the kill she would kill him..left.....what was some of that dialogue?

\

FAITH

Dude, I'm gettin paid! They hate you

almost as much as I do.
ANGEL

Did it ever occur to you this might

be more fun for me?
Nope that doesn't sound like a guy looking for vengeance Yes i heard you the first 665464 times...Angel wanted to save faith..so he planned on barely defending himself and getting beaten to a bloody pulp.

Instead of killing her like you claim he wanted to? You already admitted that he barely defended himself. His heart was never into it. And during the fight "Come on Angel! I thought you were bad!" "Fight back!" "I'm evil!" etc. He wouldn't kill her, he wasn't bloodlusted in Five by Five. That's all my point is, you can't say a fight between Faith and Angel with both of them trying would go down like Five by Five, because Angel wasn't trying to kill Faith. Whether Angel or Faith would win is an entirely different story.

#49 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8281 posts) - - Show Bio

What does Faith have to do with anything?

Buffy has fought, and defeated both of them several times.

I'm not sure the point of this battle.

#50 Edited by Job (422 posts) - - Show Bio
@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.


Faith dominated angel in fight 1.......and fight 2......the end.


yup she gave him again stated if he didnt go for the kill she would kill him..left.....what was some of that dialogue?

\

FAITH

Dude, I'm gettin paid! They hate you

almost as much as I do.
ANGEL

Did it ever occur to you this might

be more fun for me?
Nope that doesn't sound like a guy looking for vengeance Yes i heard you the first 665464 times...Angel wanted to save faith..so he planned on barely defending himself and getting beaten to a bloody pulp.

Instead of killing her like you claim he wanted to? You already admitted that he barely defended himself, and that his heart was never into it. And during the fight "Come on Angel! I thought you were bad!" "Fight back!" "I'm evil!" etc. He wouldn't kill her, he wasn't bloodlusted in Five by Five. That's all my point is, you can't say a fight between Faith and Angel with both of them trying would go down like Five by Five, because Angel wasn't trying to kill Faith.


 Angel wanted faith dead....he got dominated by her...twice.....the end. Thats the only point. You want to argue to argue....which is why you keep dropping the fact that he got dominated in his first fight LOL...even worst than he did in the second....whats your excuse for that fight...oh you're not making any because you keep avoiding it..wonder why. Ive explained to you how when why of what happened in five by five...im done discussing it.........Angel was dominated twice by faith....he was dominated by buffy..he loses this fight...anything else you;d like to add? No..k