Bucky Barnes vs Dick Grayson

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entropy_aegis

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#101  Edited By entropy_aegis
@Blackestnight said:
"Bucky would just shoot him.   Robins best chance is to gas him out.  And unless that worked instantly Bucky's going to move.  Robin is a better fighter, and better at disappearing, but Bucky fights well enough and is simply stronger and that shield can take anything, Robin's armor can't handle a gun. This isn't some thug is Captain America (ish) he'd blast him.   Robin's way to win is with Guile.   He can not go hand to hand vs a gun and vibrainuim shield.  Bucky can easily go head to head with bommerangs and such. Robin would have been hard pressed to make it out of WWII with no special gear. "

Except you know that bucky aint no special marksman,you should tell your theory to all the gumen he faces everyday ,and i'd like to see bucky walk out of an encounter with clayface alive.
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CaptainRodgers

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#102  Edited By CaptainRodgers
@Blackestnight said:
"Bucky would just shoot him.   Robins best chance is to gas him out.  And unless that worked instantly Bucky's going to move.  Robin is a better fighter, and better at disappearing, but Bucky fights well enough and is simply stronger and that shield can take anything, Robin's armor can't handle a gun. This isn't some thug is Captain America (ish) he'd blast him.   Robin's way to win is with Guile.   He can not go hand to hand vs a gun and vibrainuim shield.  Bucky can easily go head to head with bommerangs and such. Robin would have been hard pressed to make it out of WWII with no special gear. "


1.Buck has no sidearm 
2.Robin? Nigtwing , the OP states he is wearing nightwing costume.

3."Robin" has no gas 
4.Bucky has a gas mak anyway. 
5.he has no boomerangs or "such" he only has Escrimas

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vance_astro

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#103  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@entropy_aegis said:

Since when did beating widow or sin (who was tortured by brock and couldnt even fight back)  become such a highend feat ?,if you want  to go by that logic then dick has beaten huntress(who did quite well against bruce while widow was one shotted by both bucky and dd) and bested Ra's al ghul more recently in a sword fight(Ra's has beaten bane and batman though he has lost to bruce once as well).grayson showing against deathstroke was more recent compared to the other showings which you brought up and it was actually believable unlike bucky whos two out of three encounters with brock are downright horrible.and grayson bested arsenal and jason todd(BTFC and rise and fall of arsenal). and i'm a liile iffy on widow and sin being class 6 fighters .if that is true then marvels fighters would be rank amatuers.  "

So what you're doing is picking out the worst fighters I named and then comparing them to the mediocre fighters that Grayson has fought.You completely disregarded (Captain America\Grand Director,Batroc,and Crossbones) so you can make some ridiculous Huntress and Ra's Al Ghul comparison.Characters that Crossbones could probably be by himself.Don't say "If you want to go by that logic" and then cut up my argument.Because you're not going by my logic at all.Black Widow has never been one shotted by Bucky or Daredevil.She's lost to both but she was never one shotted and both are skilled fighters so you're saying she got one shotted as if Bucky or DD wouldn't beat the sh#t outta Huntress just as easily as they did Black Widow or like they aren't skilled.That's like saying Grayson isn't skilled because he lost to Batman.THAT'S WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.Bats is a better fighter than him.
 
The showing you posted of Batman vs. Deathstroke is bogus because Deathstroke wasn't putting his full attention on him and you were already told this before I responded...yet you still insist on using it as if it's a feat.The difference between Bucky vs. Crossbones and Grayson vs. Deathstroke is..Bucky has ACTUALLY beaten Crossbones and it's CONSISTENT! Arsenal and Jason Todd are mediocre.Like Grayson they don't have any really credible fighting skill feats either.You can be iffy on Widow and Sin being level 6's it doesn't matter because those aren't the only characters I named.You only pulled them out because you knew those were the only character you could actually compare the low level of combatants Grayson has actually BEATEN.
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vance_astro

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#104  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@entropy_aegis said:
Except you know that bucky aint no special marksman,you should tell your theory to all the gumen he faces everyday ,and i'd like to see bucky walk out of an encounter with clayface alive. "
You don't know what type of marksman Bucky is...
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wallywest55

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#105  Edited By wallywest55

dick wins this. from what ive read bucky's h2h is good but not anywhere near dicks. As far as weapons go. i think if dick pulls out his escrimas then he means serious business and would beat bucky as well.

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mrtrickster

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#106  Edited By mrtrickster

how about dick beats arsenal, hang with prototype version of android amazo 
beaten tarantula, defeats blockbuster,  beating Captain Boomerang 
dick has faced worse opponents than bucky in teen titans 
he's fast enought to duck jesse quick's kick, fast enough to dodge starfire's blast 
 

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greenlanterntat

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#107  Edited By greenlanterntat

bucky
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#108  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@mrtrickster said:

" how about dick beats arsenal, hang with prototype version of android amazo beaten tarantula, defeats blockbuster,  beating Captain Boomerang dick has faced worse opponents than bucky in teen titans he's fast enought to duck jesse quick's kick, fast enough to dodge starfire's blast   "

This is nonsense.You're naming a bunch of feats that won't help him against Bucky and most of them have NOTHING to do with fighting skill.Captain Boomerang is mediocre,Arsenal is just as mediocre..Blockbuster can't fight worth a sh#t he's just strong.Ducking under blasts and all that other nonsense is meaningless because more consistently he's hit by human beings moving much slower than projectiles or superhuman speedsters. 
 
@wallywest55 said:

" dick wins this. from what ive read bucky's h2h is good but not anywhere near dicks. As far as weapons go. i think if dick pulls out his escrimas then he means serious business and would beat bucky as well. "

READ THE OP first. 
SECOND to say something as ridiculous as Bucky is nowhere near Grayson I would assume you've read nothing and you're just making a statement.
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FinalStar86

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#109  Edited By FinalStar86
@Vance Astro:  While I agree with most of what you're saying, Jason and Roy are far from mediocre, Roy has come a long way since his days as Red Arrow and is packing a mechanical arm similar to Bucky, although he isn't as good a fighter as Bucky of Dick. Instead of fighting with martial arts though he's a become a more Bullseye type character where he's a weapon master that can turn anything into a projectile.
 
Both Bruce and Dick have had a hard time with Jason. 
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#110  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@FinalStar86 said:

" @Vance Astro:  While I agree with most of what you're saying, Jason and Roy are far from mediocre, Roy has come a long way since his days as Red Arrow and is packing a mechanical arm similar to Bucky, although he isn't as good a fighter as Bucky of Dick. Instead of fighting with martial arts though he's a become a more Bullseye type character where he's a weapon master that can turn anything into a projectile.  Both Bruce and Dick have had a hard time with Jason.  "

Feat wise...they AREN'T far from mediocre and Bruce only had trouble with Jason because he held back.If Bruce was bloodlusted he would perfect Jason.
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FinalStar86

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#111  Edited By FinalStar86
@Vance Astro said:
" @FinalStar86 said:

" @Vance Astro:  While I agree with most of what you're saying, Jason and Roy are far from mediocre, Roy has come a long way since his days as Red Arrow and is packing a mechanical arm similar to Bucky, although he isn't as good a fighter as Bucky of Dick. Instead of fighting with martial arts though he's a become a more Bullseye type character where he's a weapon master that can turn anything into a projectile.  Both Bruce and Dick have had a hard time with Jason.  "

Feat wise...they AREN'T far from mediocre and Bruce only had trouble with Jason because he held back.If Bruce was bloodlusted he would perfect Jason. "
There was never any indication of Bruce holding back, some people think that because Bruce said he suspected that it was Jason but that was only after they exchanged dialogue.
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jasraj

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#112  Edited By jasraj
Tough call....but i think Bucky has had better showings, even though Dick is a better fighter,
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vance_astro

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#113  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@FinalStar86 said:
There was never any indication of Bruce holding back, some people think that because Bruce said he suspected that it was Jason but that was only after they exchanged dialogue. "
If we are talking about the same fight.Batman clearly held back.He wasn't even fighting back at one point..Jason even says "C'mon Fight me" after he'd been pummeling him for several panels.
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daredevil21134

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#114  Edited By daredevil21134
@Vance Astro said:
"@FinalStar86 said:

" @Vance Astro:  While I agree with most of what you're saying, Jason and Roy are far from mediocre, Roy has come a long way since his days as Red Arrow and is packing a mechanical arm similar to Bucky, although he isn't as good a fighter as Bucky of Dick. Instead of fighting with martial arts though he's a become a more Bullseye type character where he's a weapon master that can turn anything into a projectile.  Both Bruce and Dick have had a hard time with Jason.  "

Feat wise...they AREN'T far from mediocre and Bruce only had trouble with Jason because he held back.If Bruce was bloodlusted he would perfect Jason. "

@Vance Astro said:
" @FinalStar86 said:
There was never any indication of Bruce holding back, some people think that because Bruce said he suspected that it was Jason but that was only after they exchanged dialogue. "
If we are talking about the same fight.Batman clearly held back.He wasn't even fighting back at one point..Jason even says "C'mon Fight me" after he'd been pummeling him for several panels. "

Your acting Jason Todd is a garbage fighter and he isn't...beside that, if Bruce Wanye wanted to, he can probally perfect any former Robin or Barnes for that matter
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daredevil21134

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#115  Edited By daredevil21134
@Vance Astro said:
" @FinalStar86 said:
There was never any indication of Bruce holding back, some people think that because Bruce said he suspected that it was Jason but that was only after they exchanged dialogue. "
If we are talking about the same fight.Batman clearly held back.He wasn't even fighting back at one point..Jason even says "C'mon Fight me" after he'd been pummeling him for several panels. "

Your talking about that fight in the Hush series they fought again in Under The Hood and Jason held his ground perfectly
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slimj87d

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#116  Edited By slimj87d
@daredevil21134 said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"@FinalStar86 said:

" @Vance Astro:  While I agree with most of what you're saying, Jason and Roy are far from mediocre, Roy has come a long way since his days as Red Arrow and is packing a mechanical arm similar to Bucky, although he isn't as good a fighter as Bucky of Dick. Instead of fighting with martial arts though he's a become a more Bullseye type character where he's a weapon master that can turn anything into a projectile.  Both Bruce and Dick have had a hard time with Jason.  "

Feat wise...they AREN'T far from mediocre and Bruce only had trouble with Jason because he held back.If Bruce was bloodlusted he would perfect Jason. "

@Vance Astro said:
" @FinalStar86 said:
There was never any indication of Bruce holding back, some people think that because Bruce said he suspected that it was Jason but that was only after they exchanged dialogue. "
If we are talking about the same fight.Batman clearly held back.He wasn't even fighting back at one point..Jason even says "C'mon Fight me" after he'd been pummeling him for several panels. "
Your acting Jason Todd is a garbage fighter and he isn't...beside that, if Bruce Wanye wanted to, he can probally perfect any former Robin or Barnes for that matter "
No, what he is saying is that Jason Todd hasn't had a good fight with someone else that has credible feats. If Jason beat someone like Batman or Captain America than he can beat Bucky. But he has not.
 
Bucky has beaten people on levels close to Steve and Bruce. The grand Director may not have as much fighting skill as Steve, but he's still good, and he has enough durability to punch through brick walls and throw a shield threw a car and blow it up.
 
Bucky has also done fairly well against Wolverine and managed to KO him in one encounter.
 
Vance is saying that Jason Todd does not have the proper showings against anyone that can merit any win against Bucky.
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FinalStar86

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#117  Edited By FinalStar86

No one is arguing that Jason could defeat Bucky

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vance_astro

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#118  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@daredevil21134 said:
Your acting Jason Todd is a garbage fighter and he isn't...beside that, if Bruce Wanye wanted to, he can probally perfect any former Robin or Barnes for that matter "
Jason Todd has little to no feats.I'm not acting as if he's a garbage fighter..nor did I say he was.I said he was mediocre.I can't say someone is a great or good fighter when they've done nothing.And DC doesn't have a handbook so there's nothing even stated to what level he's actually on.
 
@FinalStar86 said:
" No one is arguing that Jason could defeat Bucky "
But you are arguing that Grayson beating him is worth mentioning against Bucky. 
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spiderguylll

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#119  Edited By spiderguylll

no one beats nightwing

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FinalStar86

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#120  Edited By FinalStar86
@Vance Astro said:
" @daredevil21134 said:
Your acting Jason Todd is a garbage fighter and he isn't...beside that, if Bruce Wanye wanted to, he can probally perfect any former Robin or Barnes for that matter "
Jason Todd has little to no feats.I'm not acting as if he's a garbage fighter..nor did I say he was.I said he was mediocre.I can't say someone is a great or good fighter when they've done nothing.And DC doesn't have a handbook so there's nothing even stated to what level he's actually on.
 
@FinalStar86 said:
" No one is arguing that Jason could defeat Bucky "
But you are arguing that Grayson beating him is worth mentioning against Bucky.  "
I'm arguing that he's a credible fighter, despite having no real victories he's done well against credible combatants.  Does this mean that Dick would beat Bucky? No, but the original question was who Dick has beaten that's worth mentioning, I feel that Jason is one of those. 
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#121  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@spiderguylll said:
" no one beats nightwing "
F you...
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vance_astro

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#122  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@FinalStar86 said:
I'm arguing that he's a credible fighter, despite having no real victories he's done well against credible combatants.  Does this mean that Dick would beat Bucky? No, but the original question was who Dick has beaten that's worth mentioning, I feel that Jason is one of those.  "
I'll let you have it.
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FinalStar86

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#123  Edited By FinalStar86
@Vance Astro said:
" @FinalStar86 said:
I'm arguing that he's a credible fighter, despite having no real victories he's done well against credible combatants.  Does this mean that Dick would beat Bucky? No, but the original question was who Dick has beaten that's worth mentioning, I feel that Jason is one of those.  "
I'll let you have it. "
Appreciate it, Bucky's list of wins is more impressive though I'll admit. 
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daredevil21134

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#124  Edited By daredevil21134
@Vance Astro:
i have some impressive Jason Todd scans but this isn't about Jason Todd,so i'll leave it alone
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vance_astro

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#125  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator
@daredevil21134 said:
" @Vance Astro: i have some impressive Jason Todd scans but this isn't about Jason Todd,so i'll leave it alone "
You can PM them to me if you want. 
 
@FinalStar86 said:
Appreciate it
:)
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daredevil21134

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#126  Edited By daredevil21134
@Vance Astro:

ok i will
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jasraj

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#127  Edited By jasraj
Dick Grayson wins, he is the superior fighter, he is also faster and more agile, Dick has this
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#128  Edited By jasraj
Dick
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entropy_aegis

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#129  Edited By entropy_aegis

Well dick will be fighting sensei in a few months, i hope this resolves the quetion of his skills.
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jasraj

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#130  Edited By jasraj
@entropy_aegis said:
"Well dick will be fighting sensei in a few months, i hope this resolves the quetion of his skills. "

IMO Dick is the better fighter, and can pull off a win here
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entropy_aegis

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#131  Edited By entropy_aegis
@jasraj:
I dont know
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#132  Edited By jasraj
@Blackestnight said:
"Bucky would just shoot him.   Robins best chance is to gas him out.  And unless that worked instantly Bucky's going to move.  Robin is a better fighter, and better at disappearing, but Bucky fights well enough and is simply stronger and that shield can take anything, Robin's armor can't handle a gun. This isn't some thug is Captain America (ish) he'd blast him.   Robin's way to win is with Guile.   He can not go hand to hand vs a gun and vibrainuim shield.  Bucky can easily go head to head with bommerangs and such. Robin would have been hard pressed to make it out of WWII with no special gear. "

Bucky would just shoot him??? you do know Dick can easily dodge bullets? and is extremley agile
 

 
 
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jasraj

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#133  Edited By jasraj
@CaptainRodgers:
Dick takes this one
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#134  Edited By CaptainRodgers
@jasraj:
I disagree , Buck has taken on more credible fighters more consistently and his Bionic arm is a real threat , if he could get a clean shot in the face the fight is over , his arm is superhumanly strong . 
Batroc 
Crossbones 
Wolverine 
he has beaten them and they're all very good fighters
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#135  Edited By jasraj
@CaptainRodgers said:

"@jasraj: I disagree , Buck has taken on more credible fighters more consistently and his Bionic arm is a real threat , if he could get a clean shot in the face the fight is over , his arm is superhumanly strong . Batroc Crossbones Wolverine he has beaten them and they're all very good fighters "


but Dick is faster, more agile and a better fighter, i will show you some scans
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#136  Edited By jasraj
@CaptainRodgers:
even when Dick was robin he was outsmarting people like Mr Freeze, and taking down people like Blockbuster I with ease, he also KO'd Tarantuala with ease, he is also smart, and he's acrobatic, he is agile, fast, smart etc
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#137  Edited By CaptainRodgers
@jasraj:
i'll debate later im gonin to bed , well 2 days , chgristmas tomorow :D
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#138  Edited By jasraj
@CaptainRodgers said:

"@jasraj: i'll debate later im gonin to bed , well 2 days , chgristmas tomorow :D "


X-Mas tommorrow =]
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#139  Edited By slimj87d
@jasraj:  
He is more agile, but there is no proof he is faster. That is a matter of an opinion. 
 
Bucky is smart as well, don't count against his intelligence. He is cunning and very swift. Bucky is a very intelligent fighter.
 

The true Origins of Bucky Barnes, trained to kill since 16 years old.
The true Origins of Bucky Barnes, trained to kill since 16 years old.


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided


Knifing and handcuffing Wolverine in one swift attack
Knifing and handcuffing Wolverine in one swift attack




No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

    
Managed to outsmart Ironman. Sure Ironman wasn't trying but Bucky used his smarts.  
Managed to outsmart Ironman. Sure Ironman wasn't trying but Bucky used his smarts.  
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#140  Edited By jasraj
@SlimJ87D:
Good point, but Dick is also smart, he outsmarted Mr Freeze when he was Robin
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#141  Edited By jarf2

dick

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#142  Edited By jasraj
@jarf2 said:
"dick "
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#143  Edited By entropy_aegis
@SlimJ87D:
The wolverine scan isnt relevant cause buck had prep and sill was about to lose in the very next panel before natasha? interrupted.same goes for ironman he wanted bucky to come so that he could be shown steves will.
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#144  Edited By DaMainMan
@Vance Astro:  Now that is how you stop Deathstroke! Clever kid. Not sure if he will beat Bucky but it would make a great mini-series.hint hint.
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#145  Edited By slimj87d
@entropy_aegis said:

" @SlimJ87D: The wolverine scan isnt relevant cause buck had prep and sill was about to lose in the very next panel before natasha? interrupted.same goes for ironman he wanted bucky to come so that he could be shown steves will. "

It is relevant to what I'm trying to tell Jasraj. Jasraj keeps making it out like Bucky is a complete idiot, goes in half cocked and fights with anger only. I'm proving that Bucky is NOT as dumb as some of you think he is.  
 
And like others have said before me, Dick does not have any random encounter fights that are as impressive as Bucky's encounters. 
  
I would score it almost even if it wasn't for Bucky's arm. But because of Bucky's arm, I give it to him 7/10, 6/10 without his arm.  
 
Bucky's arm has been durable and fast enough to catch arrows and deflect bullets from the black widow. It has electrical shocks and superhuman strength and surely will catch Dick off guard.  
 
1. That element surprise will allow Bucky a high chance of a one shot if Dick thought it was a normal arm and thought it would not swing above peak human performance. But the arm will come fast, fast enough to catch an arrow. The arm is also hard, much harder than any human bone. When it does hit, it will hit at speeds much higher than any human arm can possibly ever move at. And when it does it, the metal will hurt much more than human bone.  
 
2. His left arm has also allowed him to throw the shield through large control panels, super computers and an AK-47. Do you know how fast the arm has to throw for the shield to create that kind of force? 
 

 

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 Even though this is house of M, it can allow you to gauge how powerful his arm possibly is. This arm is no joke, Dick will not see it coming. And with the amount of skill Bucky has, using the metal arm gives him a HUGE ADVANTAGE. 
 
I have a whole pose a long time ago that show a lot of evidence to suggest how strong the arm is. If I have to get into it I will, but I don't think I need to.  
 
Bucky takes it.
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DaMainMan

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#146  Edited By DaMainMan
@SlimJ87D:  Where did that fight with Tooth take place?
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entropy_aegis

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#147  Edited By entropy_aegis
@SlimJ87D: i see your point
@DaMainMan:
House of m 4,5 or 6 ,its non cannon and mags killed buck anyways
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entropy_aegis

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#148  Edited By entropy_aegis
@SlimJ87D:
While i agree that arm is powerful,lets not forget that grayson is an expert in stealth and he's more agile and most likely faster(though only confirmed in hyperbole ) and his eskrimas are hard and bladed . its pretty even for me . 
for graysons high showings of skill he's beaten 
Huntress 
arsenal 
jason todd 
stalemated slade recently 
beaten KG beast(enhanced russian soldier (ring a bell LOL) with the strength of 10 men ) though this guy did become a jobber . 
He will most likely fight sensei(ra's al ghul's father who kicked the crap out of bruce)
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FinalStar86

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#149  Edited By FinalStar86
@entropy_aegis:  He also beat Ra's himself
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#150  Edited By entropy_aegis
@FinalStar86 said:
" @entropy_aegis:  He also beat Ra's himself "

He also lost twice,and i wouldnt exactly call it a victory.