Bucky Barnes vs Dick Grayson

" @SlimJ87D: Those crossbones fights are not legit plain and simple,and bucky doesnt know dick has gas , i dont recall james using one in a random situation but i'll take your word for it ,but it doesnt matter since its not automated . EMP's and shocks wont work on grayson since the suit is shielded, and while youre right that bucks arm provides serious striking power lets not forget that dick has bladed eskrimas and  electric knuckles which can compensate for the arm(he only has the knuckles as batman though).and it doesnt matter who trained or worked more and its not like buck didnt spend most of his life in deepfreeze. "

" @entropy_aegis said:

" @SlimJ87D: Those crossbones fights are not legit plain and simple,and bucky doesnt know dick has gas , i dont recall james using one in a random situation but i'll take your word for it ,but it doesnt matter since its not automated . EMP's and shocks wont work on grayson since the suit is shielded, and while youre right that bucks arm provides serious striking power lets not forget that dick has bladed eskrimas and  electric knuckles which can compensate for the arm(he only has the knuckles as batman though).and it doesnt matter who trained or worked more and its not like buck didnt spend most of his life in deepfreeze. "

-Does Dick know Bucky has gas? It wouldn't be fair for one to know one has gas and the other. So they both have gas.  -And also, how come those fights with Crossbones aren't legit? It was in a Captain America title, I think Brubaker knows what he is doing. I think it's bias and unfair to take those wins away from Bucky and say they didn't count. -Don't forget Bucky also has a supped up gun, and not just a normal HG either, this gun is Nick Fury issued. It was capable if winding Ares and knocking him down for awhile. Ares is Bulletproof. Also, Bucky is not your average shot, he is damn good. -You can't shield from an EMP. What happens is all the circuits in your electronics begin to carry too much current damaging them. The only way to counter the EMP is to shut off your circuits so current won't run though and damage the circuitry. There may be ways to shield it that I haven't researched yet, but then again you would need a "scan" that shows that Dicks suit and gear is EMP proof. We can't just assume that it is you know? -Bucky did spend his life in deep freeze, but he didn't age during that time. So taking the times where they were both active and  their bodies were aging, Bucky has had more experience in combat. But this is my opinion and many more of the Viners here feel the same way. "

" @SlimJ87D: I thought this was just hand to hand? "

" @entropy_aegis: Well would Bucky's arm itself not be able to be effected by a emp? "

Dick carries most of the arsenal Bruce does and he does. I believe Dick may have used it once or twice actually. If his arm is able to be effected by an emp then there's no reason Dick shouldn't take it.

"Dick carries most of the arsenal Bruce does and he does. I believe Dick may have used it once or twice actually. If his arm is able to be effected by an emp then there's no reason Dick shouldn't take it. "

" @entropy_aegis: And I believe Dick mentioned something about having EMP during outsiders 5 of a kind. And that's for a different debate. "

YES IT DOESNT MATTER WHO TRAINED WHO ,but  the problem is that bucky supporters normally resort to the training arguments as if they mean anything.james as bucky in his peak years isnt beating tim as  robin in his peak years  and same goes for dick.their showings as robin especially tim's are way better than his . recently dick stalemated slade . and grayson has KO gas,and those tazer knuckles as well as escrimas ,but the point being that james has no defense against a gas attack. and i dont think beating widow is much of a feat ,and crossbones has jobbed to him in 2 of their encounters ,the only proper fight was a stalemate and bucky was barely standing . dont know about batroc so i cant comment on that. "

" @nightwing91:
@entropy_aegis: Well Bucky's arm releases an EMP, it's not going to be effected by one. Second, Dick wouldn't know his arm was Robotic till it was too late.  But this is a pure H2H discussion. If you guys really wanted to turn it into the general debate there are topics for that with all their equipment. . "

" @entropy_aegis: Well would Bucky's arm itself not be able to be effected by a emp? "

"@SlimJ87D: Those crossbones fights are not legit plain and simple,and bucky doesnt know dick has gas , i dont recall james using one in a random situation but i'll take your word for it ,but it doesnt matter since its not automated . EMP's and shocks wont work on grayson since the suit is shielded, and while youre right that bucks arm provides serious striking power lets not forget that dick has bladed eskrimas and  electric knuckles which can compensate for the arm(he only has the knuckles as batman though).and it doesnt matter who trained or worked more and its not like buck didnt spend most of his life in deepfreeze. "

" I'd give it to dick,he's more skilled in combat then Bucky, and they're around the same physical stats, with Grayson being faster, then only difference is one arm give's him superhuman strength but I don't believe there's a level set. But most likely nothing grayson hasn't taken before, he's taken shots from people stronger then bucky.  But the one factor I'll give Grayson for the win, is his intelligence, which will come into effect as Bucky seems to get angry when he's fighting. "

" @nightwing91 said:

" @SlimJ87D: I thought this was just hand to hand? "

I'm trying to turn it in to a general debate "

" @nightwing91 said:

"I'm trying to turn it in to a general debate "

If he OP says it's just H2H..I don't know why anyone is even bothering to argue gadgets and other nonsense with you.Maybe you're trying to make it general because you know Grayson doesn't have combat showings that match Bucky's.... "

" @Vance Astro: Grayson is faster, there both peak human, but Grayson's been told his agility isn't humanly possible into the superhuman level. And my argument said he ahs a slight skill advantage, my main reason for giving him a win is because he's smarter then Bucky. Bucky isn't known for his agility. He doesn't fight to many martial artists the one I can think of is Shrike who trained since he was a boy,made short work of Tim. And Grayson made short work of him,  now I'm not even going to bring up his showings with deathstroke. "

Actually Grayson's fought deathstroke several times now, recently in a titans issue. Grayson keep's right up there with him and there is the stalemate, and the other showings he's had against him in the past few years. I'll gladly get you scan's of his fight's fight deathstroke,but we know its PIS.

" Actually Grayson's fought deathstroke several times now, recently in a titans issue. Grayson keep's right up there with him and there is the stalemate, and the other showings he's had against him in the past few years. I'll gladly get you scan's of his fight's fight deathstroke. "

" @nightwing91 said:

" Actually Grayson's fought deathstroke several times now, recently in a titans issue. Grayson keep's right up there with him and there is the stalemate, and the other showings he's had against him in the past few years. I'll gladly get you scan's of his fight's fight deathstroke. "

Deathstroke has beaten the Titans with Grayson on the team.... "

" There was also Arsenal [while he was armed]Brother Blood [kind of like a Mandarin/Karnak guy where he can bust through steel with pressure points] Cheshire Jason Todd [BFTC] Ra's al Ghul  I would say Bucky's list is more impressive but Nightwing has beaten credible opponents before  Also people need to quit with the Slade argument, for every time Nightwing did good against there are more showings of Slade stomping him.  "

" @FinalStar86 said:

" There was also Arsenal [while he was armed]Brother Blood [kind of like a Mandarin/Karnak guy where he can bust through steel with pressure points] Cheshire Jason Todd [BFTC] Ra's al Ghul  I would say Bucky's list is more impressive but Nightwing has beaten credible opponents before  Also people need to quit with the Slade argument, for every time Nightwing did good against there are more showings of Slade stomping him.  "

I knew all of these but I was making a case for Bucky and I didn't want to make a case against myself.I was waiting for someone to mention SOMEONE credible.Is it that hard? "

" @FinalStar86: Pretty awesome , is that from his solo series ? "

Dick SHOULD be better then he's portrayed though. 

@Vance Astro: Is that from his solo series   "

" @FinalStar86: Cool , thanks .  I don't have it , is it good ? "

"@CaptainRodgers said:

" @FinalStar86: Cool , thanks .  I don't have it , is it good ? "

Eh not really, Nightwing ends up banging that chick on the rooftop after he pays Slade to go away, other then that the character looks weak in his own series.  "

" @mrtrickster said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @mrtrickster said:

" what has bucky done so impressive that could make him stomp dick? just curious "

He's easily beaten characters with comparable fighting skill and physical stats.Bucky simply has better showings overall. "

can you name a few instances? "

He's defeated Crossbones more than once,Batroc the Leaper,the Young Avengers,Sin,He's defeated Captain America II (Grand Director,stats match the real Steve Rogers),Black Widow etc. etc. "

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

" @mrtrickster said:

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

It does matter because Slade is more intent on escaping then killing Dick "

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

" @jayskee said:

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

Too far. 
 
@FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster said:

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

It does matter because Slade is more intent on escaping then killing Dick "

FinalStar summed it up. "

i like both and i think it could go either way the problem really comes with buck's shield and cybernetic arm.. that in itself is a game changer and i believe could give him the slight edge to win over dick.
 
but, dont get me wrong i also think Dick is still gonna put the screws on Buck from time to time as well..

"@Vance Astro said:

" @jayskee said:

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

Too far. 
 
@FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster said:

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

It does matter because Slade is more intent on escaping then killing Dick "

FinalStar summed it up. "

dick makes him bleed all over the place. slade used to toy him, he would never let himself get injured like thatI don't see this as PIS, I say dick has progressed over the years "

" @Vance Astro said:

" @jayskee said:

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

Too far. 
 
@FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster said:

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

It does matter because Slade is more intent on escaping then killing Dick "

FinalStar summed it up. "

dick makes him bleed all over the place. slade used to toy him, he would never let himself get injured like thatI don't see this as PIS, I say dick has progressed over the years "

"@entropy_aegis said:

YES IT DOESNT MATTER WHO TRAINED WHO ,but  the problem is that bucky supporters normally resort to the training arguments as if they mean anything.james as bucky in his peak years isnt beating tim as  robin in his peak years  and same goes for dick.their showings as robin especially tim's are way better than his . recently dick stalemated slade . and grayson has KO gas,and those tazer knuckles as well as escrimas ,but the point being that james has no defense against a gas attack. and i dont think beating widow is much of a feat ,and crossbones has jobbed to him in 2 of their encounters ,the only proper fight was a stalemate and bucky was barely standing . dont know about batroc so i cant comment on that. "

If you're agreeing with me..what's up with the caps lock? You aight? You said that the problem with Bucky supporters is that we make training arguments.I haven't.You haven't named one feats that tops what I've said about Bucky..all you've done is try and say that Bucky's fights with Crossbones aren't legit although Bucky has beaten him 3 times (the only one you can say isn't legit is when he was thrown out the window and shot Crossbones in the chest when he looked out) and although that is a consistent showing for Bucky you're going to say it's not legit but then bring up Grayson stalemating Deathstroke when he's failed to do any damage to him with an entire team backing him? I just gave you several credible fighters that Bucky has beaten.Sin,Batroc,Black Widow,Captain America II are all level 5-6 fighters by Marvel standards, they are the best.All you've given me is something that isn't consistent and named weapons.All of which Bucky can prevent Dick from using or block with his shield.Bucky is also far better with the use of his shield than Dick is with Escrima sticks.THIS is the problem with Nightwing supporters..they never have any feats to back up their talk. "

" @mrtrickster said:

" @Vance Astro said:

" @jayskee said:

" bucky could beat dick or bruce "

Too far. 
 
@FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster said:

" @FinalStar86 said:

" @mrtrickster:  Slade was in a hurry to leave because the cops were coming "

I don't really see that matters. and slade has the sword "

It does matter because Slade is more intent on escaping then killing Dick "

FinalStar summed it up. "

dick makes him bleed all over the place. slade used to toy him, he would never let himself get injured like thatI don't see this as PIS, I say dick has progressed over the years "

Dick's showings as Batman have been pretty sub par, he was more impressive as Nightwing before taking up the cowl  "

dick loses

Bucky would just shoot him. 
 
Robins best chance is to gas him out.  And unless that worked instantly Bucky's going to move.  Robin is a better fighter, and better at disappearing, but Bucky fights well enough and is simply stronger and that shield can take anything, Robin's armor can't handle a gun. This isn't some thug is Captain America (ish) he'd blast him. 
 
Robin's way to win is with Guile.   He can not go hand to hand vs a gun and vibrainuim shield.  Bucky can easily go head to head with bommerangs and such. Robin would have been hard pressed to make it out of WWII with no special gear.