You should have given Buck winter soldier costume/gear. you know, to have them both in their branching out uniforms. Anyway Bucky in the captain America gear, plus guns wins imo.
@Fire Star: Wait no , i searched Buck Barnes vs Dick Grayson , but there i tred searching Nightwing vs Winter Soldier and it came up , but Winter soldier is brainwashed and different , and here there is morales on , so does it still count ?
@CaptainRodgers: I just used the search function, and about 5 responses came up, bump one of those if you wish to discuss it, but you cannot make a duplicate.
"@jasraj: Elaborate please ? not denying just , please give more reasons "
He is an amazing acrobat, trained with Bruce, and is said to be faster than Bruce too, basically he trained with Bruce for years, learning martial arts, I don't know a whole load on Bucky, but did he take a super serum too?
@Fire Star: Yeah and every time you search you either get outdated threads not using modern information or someone posting "this thread has been done before use search button" over and over.
" @Fire Star: Yeah and every time you search you either get outdated threads not using modern information or someone posting "this thread has been done before use search button" over and over. "
@jasraj: I know, but it just sucks when good threads get ignored, not to mention you can not be a part of a thread from 3 years ago when some of the users who posted in it don't even come here anymore. I would love to see a good thor vs superman thread without searching for 5 year old thread or getting the same speal and the topic being ignored.
"@jasraj: I know, but it just sucks when good threads get ignored, not to mention you can not be a part of a thread from 3 years ago when some of the users who posted in it don't even come here anymore. I would love to see a good thor vs superman thread without searching for 5 year old thread or getting the same speal and the topic being ignored. "
What happens is, you bump the OLD thread, and THEN the NEW users post on it...simple
@jasraj: I'm sorry but sifting through 500 pg threads sucks and most likely the original point of the thread would have been derailed. , I will agree to disagree so we don't derail this topic but even if you do bump an old thread you will still get pseudo mods who come in to say "why did you bump old threads"
" @jasraj: I'm sorry but sifting through 500 pg threads sucks and most likely the original point of the thread would have been derailed. , I will agree to disagree so we don't derail this topic but even if you do bump an old thread you will still get pseudo mods who come in to say "why did you bump old threads" "
Then you say cause i wanted to debate on it this one was before my time and since i cant make a new one i bumped the old one most of the oldies will let you be after that.Moat of us dont like it though when you start going off on a 3 year old post iv gotten PMs from a post i made 7 months ago before and i can tell you thats annoying
" @Fire Star: i have , when i searched it was just a kickboxing contest. does that still count as the same ? "
Searching 101: When you use the search function, do you use the main search function at the very top? Do you click options and click topics and make sure everything else is unchecked?
There are a lot of these topics, I just did a search.
Richard Greyson is a formidable combatant. But he was taught by Batman. A lot of people forget that when a teacher teaches his student, he doesn't teach them everything. Batman only taught the Robins in incapacitation. He did not teach them how to form multiple kill strikes.
Don't believe me? Read the Red Hood with Jason Todd series. There it explains it just as I did. Jason Todd needed to be trained in multiple other forms of combat, even though he was already a good fighter thanks to Batman, he was not capable of fighting to his full abilities. He was retrained by multiple other martial artist around the world to become a better all around fighter.
Back to my point. Dick, I'm sure, has probably trained a lot more since he left Batman and has gotten much better than his Robin days.
But Bucky has been trained since day one to not hold back and kill. He has been an assassin for the US and the Soviets. Unlike any of the Robins, Bucky never had another life, he spend 24/7 training his mind and body for war and combat. As the Winter Soldier, he was only unleashed to keep training in Red Room activity, and to kill. On his leisure time he had sex with Natasha.
"Dick and this fight has been done several times with several different variations "
Yeah i know , i searched bucky vs Dick instead of winter soldier vs Nightwing. How does dick win though :O please elaborate. @SlimJ87D: I beleive you. .
Richard Greyson is a formidable combatant. But he was taught by Batman. A lot of people forget that when a teacher teaches his student, he doesn't teach them everything. Batman only taught the Robins in incapacitation. He did not teach them how to form multiple kill strikes.
Don't believe me? Read the Red Hood with Jason Todd series. There it explains it just as I did. Jason Todd needed to be trained in multiple other forms of combat, even though he was already a good fighter thanks to Batman, he was not capable of fighting to his full abilities. He was retrained by multiple other martial artist around the world to become a better all around fighter.
Back to my point. Dick, I'm sure, has probably trained a lot more since he left Batman and has gotten much better than his Robin days.
But Bucky has been trained since day one to not hold back and kill. He has been an assassin for the US and the Soviets. Unlike any of the Robins, Bucky never had another life, he spend 24/7 training his mind and body for war and combat. As the Winter Soldier, he was only unleashed to keep training in Red Room activity, and to kill. On his leisure time he had sex with Natasha.
Bucky takes this. "
NO i honestly dont know why people ignore showings and bring training and most importantly the ever so annoying EXPERIENCE factor,it doesnt mean jack.dick after training with batman trained with richard dragon ,while bucky was in his cryogenic sleep preparing to kill another no name politician, dick was hanging with the titans ,taking on deathstroke,trigon etc,protecting his own city etc,and while bats may not have taught robins how to kill their defensive techniques completely make for that gap (damian wayne who was raised to kill thought defense was just stupid only to be proven otherwise when dick and tim showed him) Dick banges a fiery alien in his leisure time ,not to mention a few dozen others. so basically here it goes Dick in his peak years as robin beats bucky,dick as nightwing may lose to winter soldier,dick as batman beats bucky Jason loses all though in his red hood and batman persona he will give a good fight Tim in peak years as robin beats bucky,red robin loses to winter soldier and adult drake loses to buckycap Damian is recent so i'm not mentioning him and he wasnt trained by bruce either. and lastly i dont to know why you bring up jason .jason didnt train with those mercs by choice ,he couldnt go back to bruce after all that happened and i think youre ignoring the fact that even in braindead state he pwned multiple ninjas.
NO i honestly dont know why people ignore showings and bring training and most importantly the ever so annoying EXPERIENCE factor,it doesnt mean jack.dick after training with batman trained with richard dragon ,while bucky was in his cryogenic sleep preparing to kill another no name politician, dick was hanging with the titans ,taking on deathstroke,trigon etc,protecting his own city etc,and while bats may not have taught robins how to kill their defensive techniques completely make for that gap (damian wayne who was raised to kill thought defense was just stupid only to be proven otherwise when dick and tim showed him) Dick banges a fiery alien in his leisure time ,not to mention a few dozen others. so basically here it goes Dick in his peak years as robin beats bucky,dick as nightwing may lose to winter soldier,dick as batman beats bucky Jason loses all though in his red hood and batman persona he will give a good fight Tim in peak years as robin beats bucky,red robin loses to winter soldier and adult drake loses to buckycap Damian is recent so i'm not mentioning him and he wasnt trained by bruce either. and lastly i dont to know why you bring up jason .jason didnt train with those mercs by choice ,he couldnt go back to bruce after all that happened and i think youre ignoring the fact that even in braindead state he pwned multiple ninjas. "
It doesn't matter whom trained Dick he doesn't have the feats to prove he can beat Bucky and neither does any Robin.Bucky could probably beat Todd and Drake at the same time. Since you mentioned Deathstroke you should know DS has beaten the Titans and I believe that's happen more than once even with Dick on the team so he doesn't get any props for that.How about naming someone Dick has fought and actually beaten whom has comparable skills to Bucky or Dick himself? Let's try that. Winter Soldier only existed for what the end of Civil War and some of Initiative? And he has better feats than Tim and Jason.It doesn't matter if you take Grayson as Batman or as Nightwing..Bucky will stomp him either way.
" what has bucky done so impressive that could make him stomp dick? just curious "
He's easily beaten characters with comparable fighting skill and physical stats.Bucky simply has better showings overall. "
can you name a few instances? "
He's defeated Crossbones more than once,Batroc the Leaper,the Young Avengers,Sin,He's defeated Captain America II (Grand Director,stats match the real Steve Rogers),Black Widow etc. etc.
NO i honestly dont know why people ignore showings and bring training and most importantly the ever so annoying EXPERIENCE factor,it doesnt mean jack.dick after training with batman trained with richard dragon ,while bucky was in his cryogenic sleep preparing to kill another no name politician, dick was hanging with the titans ,taking on deathstroke,trigon etc,protecting his own city etc,and while bats may not have taught robins how to kill their defensive techniques completely make for that gap (damian wayne who was raised to kill thought defense was just stupid only to be proven otherwise when dick and tim showed him) Dick banges a fiery alien in his leisure time ,not to mention a few dozen others. so basically here it goes Dick in his peak years as robin beats bucky,dick as nightwing may lose to winter soldier,dick as batman beats bucky Jason loses all though in his red hood and batman persona he will give a good fight Tim in peak years as robin beats bucky,red robin loses to winter soldier and adult drake loses to buckycap Damian is recent so i'm not mentioning him and he wasnt trained by bruce either. and lastly i dont to know why you bring up jason .jason didnt train with those mercs by choice ,he couldnt go back to bruce after all that happened and i think youre ignoring the fact that even in braindead state he pwned multiple ninjas. "
It doesn't matter whom trained Dick he doesn't have the feats to prove he can beat Bucky and neither does any Robin.Bucky could probably beat Todd and Drake at the same time. Since you mentioned Deathstroke you should know DS has beaten the Titans and I believe that's happen more than once even with Dick on the team so he doesn't get any props for that.How about naming someone Dick has fought and actually beaten whom has comparable skills to Bucky or Dick himself? Let's try that. Winter Soldier only existed for what the end of Civil War and some of Initiative? And he has better feats than Tim and Jason.It doesn't matter if you take Grayson as Batman or as Nightwing..Bucky will stomp him either way. "
YES IT DOESNT MATTER WHO TRAINED WHO ,but the problem is that bucky supporters normally resort to the training arguments as if they mean anything.james as bucky in his peak years isnt beating tim as robin in his peak years and same goes for dick.their showings as robin especially tim's are way better than his . recently dick stalemated slade . and grayson has KO gas,and those tazer knuckles as well as escrimas ,but the point being that james has no defense against a gas attack. and i dont think beating widow is much of a feat ,and crossbones has jobbed to him in 2 of their encounters ,the only proper fight was a stalemate and bucky was barely standing . dont know about batroc so i cant comment on that.
I'd give it to dick,he's more skilled in combat then Bucky, and they're around the same physical stats, with Grayson being faster, then only difference is one arm give's him superhuman strength but I don't believe there's a level set. But most likely nothing grayson hasn't taken before, he's taken shots from people stronger then bucky.
But the one factor I'll give Grayson for the win, is his intelligence, which will come into effect as Bucky seems to get angry when he's fighting.
NO i honestly dont know why people ignore showings and bring training and most importantly the ever so annoying EXPERIENCE factor,it doesnt mean jack.dick after training with batman trained with richard dragon ,while bucky was in his cryogenic sleep preparing to kill another no name politician, dick was hanging with the titans ,taking on deathstroke,trigon etc,protecting his own city etc,and while bats may not have taught robins how to kill their defensive techniques completely make for that gap (damian wayne who was raised to kill thought defense was just stupid only to be proven otherwise when dick and tim showed him) Dick banges a fiery alien in his leisure time ,not to mention a few dozen others. so basically here it goes Dick in his peak years as robin beats bucky,dick as nightwing may lose to winter soldier,dick as batman beats bucky Jason loses all though in his red hood and batman persona he will give a good fight Tim in peak years as robin beats bucky,red robin loses to winter soldier and adult drake loses to buckycap Damian is recent so i'm not mentioning him and he wasnt trained by bruce either. and lastly i dont to know why you bring up jason .jason didnt train with those mercs by choice ,he couldnt go back to bruce after all that happened and i think youre ignoring the fact that even in braindead state he pwned multiple ninjas. "
It doesn't matter whom trained Dick he doesn't have the feats to prove he can beat Bucky and neither does any Robin.Bucky could probably beat Todd and Drake at the same time. Since you mentioned Deathstroke you should know DS has beaten the Titans and I believe that's happen more than once even with Dick on the team so he doesn't get any props for that.How about naming someone Dick has fought and actually beaten whom has comparable skills to Bucky or Dick himself? Let's try that. Winter Soldier only existed for what the end of Civil War and some of Initiative? And he has better feats than Tim and Jason.It doesn't matter if you take Grayson as Batman or as Nightwing..Bucky will stomp him either way. "
YES IT DOESNT MATTER WHO TRAINED WHO ,but the problem is that bucky supporters normally resort to the training arguments as if they mean anything.james as bucky in his peak years isnt beating tim as robin in his peak years and same goes for dick.their showings as robin especially tim's are way better than his . recently dick stalemated slade . and grayson has KO gas,and those tazer knuckles as well as escrimas ,but the point being that james has no defense against a gas attack. and i dont think beating widow is much of a feat ,and crossbones has jobbed to him in 2 of their encounters ,the only proper fight was a stalemate and bucky was barely standing . dont know about batroc so i cant comment on that. "
James has pulled out a small gas mask a few times. I mean he uses sleeping gas in his arsenal for christ sakes... What do you mean him and Crossbones stalemated? How was that a PROPER fight when he just fought Sin and the Serpent squad and he received 4 bullets to his back? He was totally winded right before that fight even started and he still managed to get the winning shot on Crossbones. He's defeated Crossbones every time they have had an encounter.
You are also forgetting about his Robotic arm that is durable enough to take bullet shots, fast enough to catch arrows and strong enough to one shot Richard at any moment. He has even KOed the Grand Director who has more durability and strength than Steve. He can even electrocute and EMP Richard and his gadgets. The arm itself is very dangerous, then there's the Shield.
@nightwing91 said:
" I'd give it to dick,he's more skilled in combat then Bucky, and they're around the same physical stats, with Grayson being faster, then only difference is one arm give's him superhuman strength but I don't believe there's a level set. But most likely nothing grayson hasn't taken before, he's taken shots from people stronger then bucky. But the one factor I'll give Grayson for the win, is his intelligence, which will come into effect as Bucky seems to get angry when he's fighting. "
I wouldn't say Richard is much faster than Bucky. I would say they are at about the same speed, peak human. Except Bucky in the arm.
@SlimJ87D: Speed and Agility go to grayson, he quicker and is the fastest non-meta on the planet, faster then Bruce, able to outrun, pass and get in front of catwoman before she notices. The speed and agility are in Dicks advantage, along with the intellegence advantage.
" @SlimJ87D: Speed and Agility go to grayson, he quicker and is the fastest non-meta on the planet, faster then Bruce, able to outrun, pass and get in front of catwoman before she notices. The speed and agility are in Dicks advantage, along with the intellegence advantage. "
Agility, yes. But speed, I say no.
You are analyzing speed in running a maze not in a fight.
@SlimJ87D: Agility and speed in general he's faster in practicaly every area, he was raised a circus acrobat, and then has fought crime every night basically for over 15 years. Dick's faster, the only area I see a issue with is the shield and the arm which dick can easily use his own strength against him with superior skill. AndDick's no slouch in strength with him being able to support 1,000lbs of rubble. And to compensate for the robotic arm, he has a far superior intellegence, and is the superior tactician. The escrima can also rebound as well, just like the shield.
-If you are going to claim that he's faster than Bucky in combat then you got to show the proof. I'm talking about in fighting. How much faster is he going to be at H2H, how is he faster in H2H? -Sure he has fought crime every night for 15 years. But if you read my post, Bucky has been fighting and training day and night. He started off in the war, and when he was taken from the Russians, he was only woken up to do two things, and only two things. Train and kill. There was a time where he managed to escape from them for about 2 months but they got him back and made him repeat the regime. Richard on the other hand, like I said before, lived a double life. He would often be Nightwing and Richard Greyson for a good while. -Can you also show the scan or reference when he lifted 1000 lbs? That sounds really interesting.
@SlimJ87D: Your right he was only woken up to do 2 things train and kill, mostly with wepaons. Nothing Dick hasn't dealt with 1,000 times. And I can't find the scan but I believe it was during no man's land in his solo series to help some people I'll look for a scan for you. dick's strength is right up there with Bruce's, he's wrestled with superstrong metas, and through superior skill completely manhandles characters who outclass him by a wide margin. And training with Russians I don't see being equal to training with Batman, and also training with Richard Dragon who's shiva level. And the main thing that's why I'd give Dick the win, is his intelligence, far above Buckys.
@SlimJ87D: Those crossbones fights are not legit plain and simple,and bucky doesnt know dick has gas , i dont recall james using one in a random situation but i'll take your word for it ,but it doesnt matter since its not automated . EMP's and shocks wont work on grayson since the suit is shielded, and while youre right that bucks arm provides serious striking power lets not forget that dick has bladed eskrimas and electric knuckles which can compensate for the arm(he only has the knuckles as batman though).and it doesnt matter who trained or worked more and its not like buck didnt spend most of his life in deepfreeze.
The escrima can also rebound as well, just like the shield."
yeah he did that to supes powered bats once ,though i'm not sure how that story fits in to continuity ,though hopefully there are more similar examples.
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