Bruce Wayne vs Ozymandias

Bruce Wayne takes one Ozymandias in a hand to hand combat.

Who Wins ?

Wayne based on feats.

Wayne stomps.

Jmarshmallow

Ozymandias. Not by feats, but feats aren't everything

Ozymandias should blitz him . Fast enough to catch bullets fired from behind and all

Now whether he lacks the firepower to put down Wayne is dubious....given Bruces stuff like keeping on fighting after getting impaled clean through the guts and all

Bruce.

Bruce

@leo-343: Mmhh...no. Veidt has better speed feats. Catching a bullet fired from behind at point blank range, deflecting another at point blank range....yup..thats better than Bruce

That being said, I don't recall him being quite as skilled and / or strong enough to hurt Wayne

Does Before Watchmen count as canon?

Bruce

But isn't ozy faster and stronger?

I swear Ozy fanboys, they probably think he could take down Wolverine, cause ya know, he caught a bullet.

@jmarshmallow: Please post Batman's best reaction feats that pt Adrian to shame.

@leo-343: well how do I put this

The original watchmen series had 12 issues

In two separte issues Veidt reacted to a bullet after it was already fired

He also casually, as in stupidly casually, stomped two above real world human fighters to back up his speed

There is nothing to contradict this speed over 12 issues

Bruce Wayne is someone, who consistently dodges the aim of multiple shooters, not the actual bullet after it is fired

He has literally 1000s of appearances in the post crisis era alone, in all this time he has exactly two " bullet timing" feats .....in 2009

At other times he himself directly notes hes not fast enough to stop a bullet already fired

Against Cassandra Cain, a bullet timer from the very beginning, he gets hits so fast he doesn't know till he starts coughing blood. She does things like literally smirk at his attempts to land a hit on her

So basically Bruce is what we call a peak human, that is stupidly faster than real world humans ( switching cups in the literal blink of an eye etc) but also considerably slower than actual bullet timers, on a consistent basis over 1000s of appearances

Veidts lack of appearances helps him here.

Again, as I said Veidt lacks the other feats ( physical strength, skill,technique etc) in the original series to really hurt Bruce....but speed is one area he's definitely better at

Batman wins

Veidt may have some edge in a few categories but I think Bruce is generally more able.

Bruce has punched bullets out of the air.

@leo-343: he hasn't blizted anyone of bruces calibre but the whole " catches bullets fired from behind at point blank range" thing automatically pushes his speed past Bruce....that and as I said his casual smacking around of above real world human fighters means he can and has used this speed in combat

As for it being a stomp.....thats dubious.the way I see it , the only way for Bruce to win is to take the punishment as Veidt bliztes him before he slows down enough for Bruce to grab him and turn it into a grappling match thereby eliminating Veidts speed advantage

*If* it gets to that point , I see Bruce winning for sure but im not sure if he can survive the initial blitz. I mean probably, he should, but then again I haven't read Watchmen in ages, so maybe I don't remember some of his strength feats

Certainly the movie version had some pretty ridiculous feats like kicking a man across a room hard enough to shatter concrete on the other side, which I'm pretty sure the comic version didn't do.

leaning towards bruce until better feats for veidt

@artyom: he has also tagged Flashes as far as totally inconsistent feats , directly contradicted by his own statements like " The bullet was too fast. I couldn't react" go

In fact, post crisis batman has tagged flashes more than he has tagged bullets.

So is he FTL according to you?

Don't put words in my mouth. Proof Flash was even going FTL?

Bruce

He had trouble against The Comedian

@artyom: When Flash does stuff like feel a bullet on his neck and have his superspeed kick in after that, when people matching up perceptions with him specifically see the world frozen in time from Flashs perspective to the point of an entire issue passing with the cup spilled by a waitress suspended in air while they exchange stories, when Flash reacts in nanoseconds, picoseconds and can measure timw between attoseconds to amuse himself, you feel on that particular day, he a guy who sees the world frozen in time......did not see Bruces fist frozen in time?

You feel Flashs speed is selective or has an " on switch" or something, as opposed to being active all the time?

My God....you are actually treating the feat seriously aren't you?

I'd be glad to!

Gallery

Gallery

• Deflects a rifle gunshot with a shovel at close range.
• Deflects several gunshots at close range with a chain.
• Blocks a bullet with a chair even though his back is turned.

And here's where things get good...

Gallery

• Literally deflecting machine gun fire with his gauntlets.
• Batman punches a bullet. You know the difference between punching a bullet and catching one? Having the durability and force to cut it off it's course.

And here's some other speed feats that don't involve bullets, which to my knowledge Ozy is pretty much limited to with that one bullet catching feat everyone loves to boast about.

Gallery

What in the world does Ozy have that can compare to these?

Jmarshmallow

@artyom: so....a later series not sanctioned by the original writer, ignoring stuff like Ozy getting better after that, to the point of killing the comedian eventually

Heck even in this series, Ozy " studied" his technique and allowed him to win iirc

I never said it wasn't stupid. I asked for proof that Flash was even going FTL. He can select the speed at which his brain operates. It is quite possible that he was not in super speed. I have never seen the scan. That is why I asked for proof. If anything it wasn't Batman PIS, it was Flash PIS assuming he WAS going superspeed or had his brain in superspeed mode.

@artyom: You are missing the point. Which is, a drastic speed increase for Bruce...contradicting his other showings

He casually dodges bullets all the time and he has punched bullets out of the air...I'm not seeing a contradiction at all If anything it is bad writing when he is hit by bullets. Ozymandias couldn't win this if he tried his hardest he simply lacks the strength and skill to put Bruce down. Where are Ozy's speed blitz feats?

@jmarshmallow: talking about how the bullet is too fast for him to react to, is proof of Batman being able to react to a bullet?

Your logic is....bemusing

Shouting out " Im going for broke!" As he wildly covers his face with a giant metal spade , while noting his adversary has already gone for his gun, and having time to raise said shovel before the shot is fired......is proof of what exactly?

And nice. Pre crisis stuff. Its not like these events are contradicted at all , is it?

Ooh...Batman Black And White. Neil Gaiman wrote a great story there once. Where Bruce and the jokers were actors in a play all along. Im sure THATS canon....

And lovely. More pre crisis stuff where Bruce already suspects hes about to get shot. Nice. And not at all like it contradicts the other pre crisis feat of Bruce shouting " Im going for broke!" , is it? Also a chair that covers his entire body. Its almost like regular, action movie heroes don't come up with this sort of " hide behins large object" shtick

Feats from 2009 for a character who got rebooted in.....1985! Wow. Consistency at its best

And its not like the kevlar helped at all...is it?

So....the final feat. How many times FTL do you feel Bruce is then?

@artyom: so when the other guy starts of his respect thread-ish post with a scan of Bruce explicitly noting the bullet is too fast for him......you see no ccontradictiom at all?

@jmarshmallow: Awesome.

I see poor writing.

@thegrayghost:

talking about how the bullet is too fast for him to react to, is proof of Batman being able to react to a bullet?

What in the world are you going on about?

He reacted to at least one bullet in every one of those scans.

Your logic is....bemusing

Well I'm sorry that this is so difficult for you to comprehend. But allow me to spell it out for you.

Batman. Is. Faster. Than. Ozy.

Savvy?

Shouting out " Im going for broke!" As he wildly covers his face with a giant metal spade , while noting his adversary has already gone for his gun, and having time to raise said shovel before the shot is fired......is proof of what exactly?

It's proof that he's been fast enough to deflect bullets at close range since basically his conception.

And nice. Pre crisis stuff. Its not like these events are contradicted at all , is it?

The OP doesn't specify what version is being used, so I posted feats for both Pre, Post, and New52.

Ooh...Batman Black And White. Neil Gaiman wrote a great story there once. Where Bruce and the jokers were actors in a play all along. Im sure THATS canon....

Indeed it is.

And lovely. More pre crisis stuff where Bruce already suspects hes about to get shot. Nice. And not at all like it contradicts the other pre crisis feat of Bruce shouting " Im going for broke!" , is it? Also a chair that covers his entire body. Its almost like regular, action movie heroes don't come up with this sort of " hide behins large object" shtick

Yes, because in action movies characters always have their backs turned and are able to not only turn around, pick up a chair and deflect a bullet, but they're able to do it after it's fired.

Feats from 2009 for a character who got rebooted in.....1985! Wow. Consistency at its best

How does Batman being able to deflect bullets throughout his entire career not show consistency?

And its not like the kevlar helped at all...is it?

I'm really digging your condescending tone despite the fact that your entire retort is nonsense.

I mean if you're going to try to insult me, the least you could do is be blunt about it.

So....the final feat. How many times FTL do you feel Bruce is then?

Hm. I don't recall saying Bruce was FTL. But obviously I must have, since you're so confident about it.

Jmarshmallow

@artyom: what about year one? Poor writing too that one right? His veey origin story?

So your argument is everyone of the thousands of issues published between 1985 and 2009 were " poor writing" and the non canon, FTL and TWO ( contradictory) pre crisis showings were " good writing"

Nice logic

Don't be ridiculous. He never says the bullet is too fast for him. He says he's "going for broke."

If anything, all that proves is that he was unsure if he can deflect the bullet. And clearly, the scan proved he could.

No problem! I have plenty more, but I doubt Grayghost will pay them any mind.

I just love Ozy fans.

Jmarshmallow

Year One? You mean where he was just starting out and had no experience? Again I asked for Ozy being able to speed blitz yet you have no proof that he can while @jmarshmallow has proved that Batman has reacted to bullets on multiple occasions.

Also I never said those were all poor writing, but the times where he is mortally wounded is obviously poor writing sense he has proven to react.

@thegrayghost: Why are you strictly asking about Bruce's feats and quickly disclaiming them, instead of showing feats to back up the character you are debating for? Even if I were to post wrong scans of bats, they would outweigh the scans you have shown so far (absolutely 0). Your debate can't only consist of your words.....

Bruce

@thegrayghost: So everytime Bruce reacts to a speedster it makes him FTL? In absolutely none of the speedster scans were they going FTL so I'm not seeing where that is coming from unless you just assume that because they can go FTL they always do.

Bruce.

This.

Ouch. "Savvy"

@jmarshmallow:

1.The first scan. The Freeze one. He explicity notes that the bullet is too fast for him

2. Not really based on actual consistent feats.

3.Thats his conception? You kidding me? The art looks 70s for sure what with the long ears and everything. Issue number for that btw?

And isn't it just sad that you popped with less than half a dozen feats for the most published comic character ever? Thats literally 4 or 5 from ....thousands of appearances, half of which are non canon

4.Stacking up 3 different versions and coming up 4 or 5 feats for the most published comic characer ever is less than impressive

Especially considering thats 2 in more than a thousand in the pre crisis era and 2 in about a thousand for the post crisis era

one is flat out non canon. While the others come from different canons. And one specifically has him noting hes slower than the bullet

5. Theres exactly zero proof he did it after the shot was fired, that is frankly your assumption and sure they do

6.His entire career started in the 70s? And completely skipped the 80s and 90s to 2009?

There are literally thousands of issues in both pre and post crisis eras that do not depict him at anywhere close to those speeds upto and including your own scan of failing to deal with the same ( the freeze one)

So you posting a scan of Batman tagging a FTL character and outright disappearing in plain sight.....is you not saying Batman is FTL?

Please do tell me your about what you really meant then

@thegrayghost:

1.The first scan. The Freeze one. He explicity notes that the bullet is too fast for him

Too fast for him to get Freeze out of the way. But not too fast for him to dodge the bullet.

That was pretty evident from the scan.

2. Not really based on actual consistent feats.

The fact that I just posted several feats shows otherwise.

It's funny how the guy who has only mentioned (not even posted) one feat of catching a bullet is trying to argue consistency.

3.Thats his conception? You kidding me? The art looks 70s for sure what with the long ears and everything. Issue number for that btw?

Goodness gracious. I didn't mean it was his literal first issue.

He's been dodging/deflecting bullets for decades now.

Better?

Oh, and it's Detective Comics #447.

And isn't it just sad that you popped with less than half a dozen feats for the most published comic character ever?

Lol. And you've posted how many feats for Ozy?

Sorry that I didn't decide to post every single bullet dodging feat from every single comic since his creation.

I figured half a dozen feats of him deflecting bullets, plus him tagging multiple Flashes with ease would cement my point.

Thats literally 4 or 5 from ....thousands of appearances, half of which are non canon

None of those are non-canon.

4.Stacking up 3 different versions and coming up 4 or 5 feats for the most published comic characer ever is less than impressive

1). Pre52 Batman and New52 Batman are the same character. So that's only 2 different versions.

2). I posted more than "4 or 5 feats."

3). I posted feats from both versions because I was showing both consistency, and because the OP didn't specify which version.

4). You haven't posted a single feat for Ozy, so it's astounding that you're trying to call me out for not showing enough scans.

one is flat out non canon.

All of them are canon.

While the others come from different canons.

Indeed, we've discussed that.

And one specifically has him noting hes slower than the bullet

Too slow to move Mr. Freeze, I've addressed that as well.

5. Theres exactly zero proof he did it after the shot was fired, that is frankly your assumption and sure they do

The sound of the gunfire is noted on the same panel as him turning around. So clearly he didn't turn prior to the gun being fired.

6.His entire career started in the 70s? And completely skipped the 80s and 90s to 2009?

When did I say that?

There are literally thousands of issues in both pre and post crisis eras that do not depict him at anywhere close to those speeds upto and including your own scan of failing to deal with the same ( the freeze one)

False. Just plain false.

So you posting a scan of Batman tagging a FTL character and outright disappearing in plain sight.....is you not saying Batman is FTL?

Yup.

Please do tell me your about what you really meant then

It means that Batman is fast. Far faster than Ozy.

I spelled that out, remember?

Jmarshmallow

Meh, Bruce being a bullet timer seems like bad writing.

@jmarshmallow: Lol. Oooh kill Em.

People really should know that GrayGhost isn't going to provide anything resembling a logical debate by now.