#1 Edited by SOG7dc (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce wayne

vs Matt Murdock

here are the rules:

two rounds.

-round one is in wayne manor

-bruce has NO access to any gadjets or bat suit and NO outside help. this is one on one h2h combat

-he has no knowledge of who matt is he thinks he is a burglar

-matt has his radar sense but no super hearing or smell.

-matt is bloodlusted and trying to kill bruce wayne and has no knowledge of him being batman

-bruce is not trying to kill but he is trying to subdue and interrogate

Round 2

-happens in hells kitchen

-bruce is bloodlusted and out to kill matt

-bruce has no gadgets no batsuit, again this is strictly h2h combat

-matt has his radar sense but no super smell or hearing

-matt has no knowledge of bruce coming and is (as much as matt can be) caught off gaurd.

-matt is not trying to kill he is trying to subdue and interrogate

improvised weapons allowed for both rounds but no specialized gadgets. so for example a trash can or a pipe or a chair but no batarangs or billy club. this is just to see who is better h2h and who is better when caught off gaurd. so as they say on my favorite morning sports show....EMBRACE DEBATE!!!!

(p.s. please present scans to PROVE all that you claim. we dont want another. "daredevil can see into the future because dr fate and skinner sweet helped himget the power from andrew bennet in trueblood season 4!" lol be able to prove your claims!)

#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21880 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1, Bruce 7/10

Round 2, Bruce 10/10

#3 Edited by saiyan_earthling (5445 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Edited by CaptBrandon (17 posts) - - Show Bio

How would Matt's radar work without the hearing?

If radar is some how working then I say:

Rnd 1: ???? not sure. I think it could go either way. Improvised weapons in Bruce's home where he would know like the back of his hand and Matt's radar would give him a good layout. Though blood lusted Matt might make him a touch sloppy. Too close to call in my honest opinion. Tough, Bruce thinking Matt is just some regular burglar might give Matt a bit more of an edge

Rnd 2: Matt 8/10 Home turf and unfamiliar to Bruce. I also feel that having a martial artist blood lusted would turn them from having precision they would normally have in combat Bruce would slip up just enough for it to cost this fight.

Now turn off the radar but give Matt regular sight:

Rnd 1: Bruce 9/10 Home turf

Rnd 2: Bruce 7/10 As stated, I think blood lust would make these guys a bit worse than normal rather than better, BUT take away the radar and Matt would be just an above average ninja who will take his shots, but go down after a while

#5 Posted by SOG7dc (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

see i would think that round one would likely go to bruce after a long and extremely difficult fight. because i think the bloodlust would make him bring everythings he's got, he's coming to kill not to fight. and remember he thinks he's killing a billionaire playboy not a deadly martial artist. but i think bruce is a better strategist than matt and he'd figuire a way to subdue him after a while.

now when bruce is the aggressor in round two i just dont know. its a toss up in my mind. i tend to think bruce may be better improviser and a quicker thinker but like you said matt is on his home turf....so idk but i do love to hear what other people have to sy about the subject

#6 Posted by CaptBrandon (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Good point on Matt thinking Bruce is just some guy also Bruce being better at strategy and having a fast enough brain to make it matter while in combat, that does make me lean a bit more to Bruce there! I could see Bruce just picking Matt apart while in his own home. Still on Matt's side for rnd 2 though.

On bloodlust in fighting, an honest perspective: I was a Army Infantryman for a few years, retired due to head injury. I was among our best in hand to hand combat and GFT in my company. I'm not a very big guy, 5'9" 170lbs but I had little trouble with some of the bigger guys because I would do everything I could to tick them off so they wouldn't be thinking strategically. Now I have had my share of folks coming at me in total rage and that made me think smarter rather than just brawl.

I think Bruce would be far worse with morals off and not bloodlusted rather than just blood lusted. This way he is not only going to kill someone, but he is also thinking of how to during the fight rather than just trying to. Get what I mean?

Any ideas of who is, overall faster? I could see Matt being a tad faster, but not sure enough to say so myself.

#7 Posted by SOG7dc (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

@captbrandon: yeah i agree with your analysis of morals off vs bloodlusted. (thank you for your service by the way) and as far as whoes faster im not sure becaus ei know that bruce is "peak human" and just so u have an idea of what a peak human is. there was a guy in the 60s named paul anderson who dead lifted over 6,000 pounds. and yes you read that correctly. (seriosly go look it up lol) and usain bolt runs about 40 mph (therabouts) ffloyd mayweather can throw about 5 punches a second. and tony gonzalez can exert like 1500 pounds of pressure from a single burst from a 3 point stance......take a moment to take what bruce should be able to do as a "peak" human being. take also into account that our brains have failsafes that keep us from using all ourstrength lest we literally destroy our bodies (i.e biting your finger off is as easy as biting a carrot but ur brain is like "dude dont bite off ur finger") and being "peak", at lest in my mind, means you have surpassed those limits. so bruce should be able to do some incredible things. tht being said from what ive read (and i always reserve the right to be wrong) matt simply has enhanced agility do to his sensory organs and inner ear mumbo jumbo. so after that very long drawn out speech i would tend to think bruce is faster.

#8 Posted by Shawnbaby (10790 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

see i would think that round one would likely go to bruce after a long and extremely difficult fight. because i think the bloodlust would make him bring everythings he's got, he's coming to kill not to fight. and remember he thinks he's killing a billionaire playboy not a deadly martial artist. but i think bruce is a better strategist than matt and he'd figuire a way to subdue him after a while.

now when bruce is the aggressor in round two i just dont know. its a toss up in my mind. i tend to think bruce may be better improviser and a quicker thinker but like you said matt is on his home turf....so idk but i do love to hear what other people have to sy about the subject

Bruce isn't Bloodlusted in round 1...Matt is.

As for the fight...not sure why you'd take away Matt's Smell and Hearing...Smelling isn't exactly the most useful combat ability....and the biggest combat advantage provided by his hearing is the Radar Sense....which he somehow has here anyway.

I'd say a Bloodlusted Matt can kill Bruce...even on home turf. Bruce would likely kill all the lights thinking that the darkness would give him advantage....but that won't work on Matt.

For round 2....A Bloodlusted Bruce probably would not care that he's fighting a blind man....but he might be overconfident at first and spoil his big chance for an ambush attack. Bruce is a smart guy though...it won't take him long to figure out Matt is no ordinary blind guy...and will take him seriously from that point on. I think a Bloodlusted Bruce eventually takes Matt down

#9 Posted by CaptBrandon (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@captbrandon: yeah i agree with your analysis of morals off vs bloodlusted. (thank you for your service by the way) and as far as whoes faster im not sure becaus ei know that bruce is "peak human" and just so u have an idea of what a peak human is. there was a guy in the 60s named paul anderson who dead lifted over 6,000 pounds. and yes you read that correctly. (seriosly go look it up lol) and usain bolt runs about 40 mph (therabouts) ffloyd mayweather can throw about 5 punches a second. and tony gonzalez can exert like 1500 pounds of pressure from a single burst from a 3 point stance......take a moment to take what bruce should be able to do as a "peak" human being. take also into account that our brains have failsafes that keep us from using all ourstrength lest we literally destroy our bodies (i.e biting your finger off is as easy as biting a carrot but ur brain is like "dude dont bite off ur finger") and being "peak", at lest in my mind, means you have surpassed those limits. so bruce should be able to do some incredible things. tht being said from what ive read (and i always reserve the right to be wrong) matt simply has enhanced agility do to his sensory organs and inner ear mumbo jumbo. so after that very long drawn out speech i would tend to think bruce is faster.

I see, maybe Bruce has a better top speed, but Matt has better reaction time due to the radar letting him know when to start reacting. I'm going to say they're even overall. Maybe someone can give us further enlightenment haha!

@sog7dc said:

see i would think that round one would likely go to bruce after a long and extremely difficult fight. because i think the bloodlust would make him bring everythings he's got, he's coming to kill not to fight. and remember he thinks he's killing a billionaire playboy not a deadly martial artist. but i think bruce is a better strategist than matt and he'd figuire a way to subdue him after a while.

now when bruce is the aggressor in round two i just dont know. its a toss up in my mind. i tend to think bruce may be better improviser and a quicker thinker but like you said matt is on his home turf....so idk but i do love to hear what other people have to sy about the subject

Bruce isn't Bloodlusted in round 1...Matt is.

As for the fight...not sure why you'd take away Matt's Smell and Hearing...Smelling isn't exactly the most useful combat ability....and the biggest combat advantage provided by his hearing is the Radar Sense....which he somehow has here anyway.

I'd say a Bloodlusted Matt can kill Bruce...even on home turf. Bruce would likely kill all the lights thinking that the darkness would give him advantage....but that won't work on Matt.

For round 2....A Bloodlusted Bruce probably would not care that he's fighting a blind man....but he might be overconfident at first and spoil his big chance for an ambush attack. Bruce is a smart guy though...it won't take him long to figure out Matt is no ordinary blind guy...and will take him seriously from that point on. I think a Bloodlusted Bruce eventually takes Matt down

...Smelling isn't exactly the most useful combat ability.... That is funny to see that said, good point, but the knowledge that that has now been typed in any form of context made me giggle a bit haha thank you for pointing that out haha .... good times...

.but he might be overconfident at first and spoil his big chance for an ambush attack. That makes me lean even more in favor of Matt for that fight, I think that one slip up could be pretty devastating