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#1 Posted by antiwhipped (220 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman's back is broken(legs don't work), has no gadgets or suit, but does have a wheelchair. Cap's lost his Super Soldier Formula and is scrawny and without his shield.

Location: Office building

Morals on, win by knockout.

#2 Posted by RingSlinger (533 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, pressure points.

#3 Posted by Hung_Justice (76 posts) - - Show Bio

Wha--... what!? Bruce?

#4 Posted by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman easily.

#5 Posted by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

Brokeback Batman win.

#6 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve.

#7 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone care to educate me as to how on earth Batman wins?

I mean, this is what scrawny Steve can do:

The only way I can see Batman winning is if Steve feels bad about beating up a guy in a wheelchair.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

@RingSlinger said:

Batman, pressure points.

Because Steve has never heard of pressure points......

Moderator
#9 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

Nice. I was just going to say he pushes Batman down a flight a stairs lol.

#10 Posted by jashro44 (25277 posts) - - Show Bio

Under these conditions cap stomps... Bruce was pretty useless in this state. Cap has some decent showings without the serum.

#12 Posted by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Bruce while crippled and broken from the waste down somehow grows fangs, foams at the mouth, gets up out of the chair, mercilessly beats Steve and throws him through a wall.

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#13 Posted by BatClaw89 (144 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve doesn't know batman is Bruce Wayne and he underestimates him. Batman feeds him some lies with his great acting skills he learned from Alfred. Steve believes him and drops his guard. Bruce/Batman then kicks Steve's ass with his superior  upper body strength and speed. Yes and Pressure points

#14 Posted by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

While having his back broken and being disguised as Sir Hedmington Gray, he beats 4 professional killers sent to murder him, also thanks to a special cane prepared for him by Harold (Legends of the Dark Knight #59)

Just to give an idea regarding Bruce's shape before the battle:

He is able to beat, without using gadgets or the likes, one of the already mentioned killers after ambushing him (Legends of the Dark Knight #61)

Despite having his back broken, he is fast enough to catch pratically without looking a ball hit by a baseball bat when it's inches away from his face (Batman is disguised as Sir Hemingford Gray) (Shadow of the Bat #22)

#15 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh. The Machinesmith's goons were dosed up on the Super Soldier serum themselves, which makes it a tad more impressive than beating up hired killers. And catching a baseball is nice and all, but all said and done it's catching a baseball.

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@CitizenBane: Most Batman fans don't read Captain America.

Untrue generalization.

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#16 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatClaw89 said:

Bruce/Batman then kicks Steve's ass with his superior upper body strength and speed.

In a wheelchair? Really?

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#17 Posted by TDK_1997 (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve even without the SSF has enough enough skills and can use them and win.

#18 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8439 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce is no slouch, even hurt but in this battle he is hurt to badly to keep up with Steve's skills.

Steve, seven out of ten.

#19 Posted by MrBossAwesomeDude (238 posts) - - Show Bio

If Bruce is a master at break dancing I could see him pulling a win, but for now I'm gonna go with Steve.

#20 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatClaw89:

#21 Posted by The_Vamp_Knight (47 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this depends on how close the battle gets. I think Bruce could take this should Cap become foolish enough to fall within range of his attacks. The reason I say this being that Oracle has been shown to have defeated The Joker, Tarantula, Spy Smasher and a few dozen thugs in H2H combat at one point or another. And in my opinion, a wheelchair bound Bruce would be much more dangerous and skilled than a wheelchair bound Barbara Gordon.

#22 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Vamp_Knight: Except Spy Smasher is useless, Tarantula is a joke (a drugged Nightwing with a bullet wound has one-shotted her) and the Joker is just as poor a fighter.

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#23 Posted by TheSuperHuman (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve isn't as weak as he physically appears. He'd slap Bruce around before shoving him down a flight of stairs like Wolverine did to Xavier.

#24 Posted by _Psy_ (3410 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve breaks Batman's leg, knocks him out, and then carries him to a hospital.

#25 Posted by The_Vamp_Knight (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@The_Vamp_Knight: Except Spy Smasher is useless, Tarantula is a joke (a drugged Nightwing with a bullet wound has one-shotted her) and the Joker is just as poor a fighter.

Spy Smasher I believe is skilled in multiple forms of hand-to-hand combat and a gifted strategist. Tarantula is also considered an exceptional hand-to-hand fighter. The Joker is typically faster and more agile than Batman, and depending on the writer, has been shown to hold his own for a while with the Bat. Then again, writers have also ruined the Joker's fighting reputation by depicting numerous one-punch KO's to his cranium. All three are in extremely fit shape and maintain high athletic abilities when compared to that of a normal human being. I'm not saying any of them have the actual combat skills that Steve Rogers maintained in your scans, but they can still be considered severe threats that were taken down by a wheelchair bound Oracle. And that is assuming that this is Steve Rogers suddenly de-powered and without his shield, as opposed to the skinny Steve Rogers before being injected with the Super Soldier Serum (an assumption that I will go ahead and say is true in the aim of making this more interesting.) Also it is not stated that Batman/Bruce Wayne will be limited to his wheel chair, and as it was shown in

#26 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Vamp_Knight said:

@CitizenBane said:

@The_Vamp_Knight: Except Spy Smasher is useless, Tarantula is a joke (a drugged Nightwing with a bullet wound has one-shotted her) and the Joker is just as poor a fighter.

Spy Smasher I believe is skilled in multiple forms of hand-to-hand combat and a gifted strategist. Tarantula is also considered an exceptional hand-to-hand fighter. The Joker is typically faster and more agile than Batman, and depending on the writer, has been shown to hold his own for a while with the Bat. Then again, writers have also ruined the Joker's fighting reputation by depicting numerous one-punch KO's to his cranium. All three are in extremely fit shape and maintain high athletic abilities when compared to that of a normal human being. I'm not saying any of them have the actual combat skills that Steve Rogers maintained in your scans, but they can still be considered severe threats that were taken down by a wheelchair bound Oracle. And that is assuming that this is Steve Rogers suddenly de-powered and without his shield, as opposed to the skinny Steve Rogers before being injected with the Super Soldier Serum (an assumption that I will go ahead and say is true in the aim of making this more interesting.) Also it is not stated that Batman/Bruce Wayne will be limited to his wheel chair, and as it was shown in

Spy Smasher and Tarantula are jokes. Their entire history consists of them being jokes. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. I am fairly sure none exist. The Joker is a poor fighter and is in no way faster or more agile than Batman. Wheelchair bound Batman or wheelchair bound Oracle have no feats on the level of defeating three thugs roided out on the Super Soldier serum. That's all there is to it. None of the people you named can even remotely be called severe threats with a straight face.

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#27 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio
This is the severe threat, the woman who was one-shotted by a Nightwing who had not one but two handicaps?
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#28 Posted by The_Vamp_Knight (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@The_Vamp_Knight said:

@CitizenBane said:

@The_Vamp_Knight: Except Spy Smasher is useless, Tarantula is a joke (a drugged Nightwing with a bullet wound has one-shotted her) and the Joker is just as poor a fighter.

Spy Smasher I believe is skilled in multiple forms of hand-to-hand combat and a gifted strategist. Tarantula is also considered an exceptional hand-to-hand fighter. The Joker is typically faster and more agile than Batman, and depending on the writer, has been shown to hold his own for a while with the Bat. Then again, writers have also ruined the Joker's fighting reputation by depicting numerous one-punch KO's to his cranium. All three are in extremely fit shape and maintain high athletic abilities when compared to that of a normal human being. I'm not saying any of them have the actual combat skills that Steve Rogers maintained in your scans, but they can still be considered severe threats that were taken down by a wheelchair bound Oracle. And that is assuming that this is Steve Rogers suddenly de-powered and without his shield, as opposed to the skinny Steve Rogers before being injected with the Super Soldier Serum (an assumption that I will go ahead and say is true in the aim of making this more interesting.) Also it is not stated that Batman/Bruce Wayne will be limited to his wheel chair, and as it was shown in

Spy Smasher and Tarantula are jokes. Their entire history consists of them being jokes. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. I am fairly sure none exist. None of the people you named can even remotely be called severe threats with a straight face.

They are severe threats to a person in a wheelchair, I should have clarified that better. Were those thugs given the complete strength, speed, and endurance of Cap on the Super Soldier Serum? I would hope not because a kick to the throat from a 98lb. man sure did a lot of damage, and although it may have been skillful, it couldn't have packed that much of a punch, otherwise regular Captain America would be in trouble all the time in regards to blows coming from much more powerful combatants.

Various writers have depicted the Joker as being more agile and slightly faster than Batman, losing because he lacks the skill and strength of Bats.

@CitizenBane said:

Wheelchair bound Batman or wheelchair bound Oracle have no feats on the level of defeating three thugs roided out on the Super Soldier serum. That's all there is to it. None of the people you named can even remotely be called severe threats with a straight face.

Well obviously they haven't fought three thugs on Super Soldier Serum, which is much different than a one-on-one fight. Steve will have to get in close to Batman in order to take him out, and Bruce isn't going to fall for the same things those thugs did. He still has the mind of a tactician and will know that Cap is physically limited as far as strength and speed go. Once again, if Batman lands a hit on skinny Steve, I think it would be all over. There are upper-body guards that can be used to deflect high and low attacks, I'm sure Batman knows them. Or if he has access to a simple, ordinary cane he can also use that to defend his lower body, and create an opening for his upper-body techniques to do their work. If he can deflect and then capitalize on an attack from Steve Rogers, then I'm sure his superior strength will devastate the body of 98lb. man regardless of his skills (he will still have his physical limits).

#29 Posted by Saren (25055 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Vamp_Knight said:

They are severe threats to a person in a wheelchair, I should have clarified that better. Were those thugs given the complete strength, speed, and endurance of Cap on the Super Soldier Serum? I would hope not because a kick to the throat from a 98lb. man sure did a lot of damage, and although it may have been skillful, it couldn't have packed that much of a punch, otherwise regular Captain America would be in trouble all the time in regards to blows coming from much more powerful combatants.

Various writers have depicted the Joker as being more agile and slightly faster than Batman, losing because he lacks the skill and strength of Bats.

Not even that. Seriously, please find the last time, or any time, that Spy Smasher and Tarantula were threats to anyone. Literally anyone. If you can lose to Barbara Gordon, whose skills are rubbish enough that she has even lost to Huntress of all people, then you are a poor combatant, and if you can manage to lose to Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair, you are a pathetic joke. The fact that all three people you named have managed to accomplish the latter does not support your point that they are allegedly severe threats for anyone.

Those thugs were roided out on a serum that turned a scrawny, perpetually sick kid into Captain America. That much should suffice. Depending on what part of the throat you kick, it can do plenty of damage, or at the very least knock the breath out of you so that your head can be caved in with a fire extinguisher. Skill generally surpasses all other attributes among comic book street levelers. Lady Shiva and Cassandra Cain are not physically imposing themselves, they manage more than satisfactorily.

The Joker has never been more agile or faster than Batman. Bruce has feats in that department that leave the Joker in the dust. He loses because he is a poor fighter with non-existent skill and barely average strength and durability. That is about all there is to it.

Well obviously they haven't fought three thugs on Super Soldier Serum, which is much different than a one-on-one fight. Steve will have to get in close to Batman in order to take him out, and Bruce isn't going to fall for the same things those thugs did. He still has the mind of a tactician and will know that Cap is physically limited as far as strength and speed go. Once again, if Batman lands a hit on skinny Steve, I think it would be all over. There are upper-body guards that can be used to deflect high and low attacks, I'm sure Batman knows them. Or if he has access to a simple, ordinary cane he can also use that to defend his lower body, and create an opening for his upper-body techniques to do their work. If he can deflect and then capitalize on an attack from Steve Rogers, then I'm sure his superior strength will devastate the body of 98lb. man regardless of his skills (he will still have his physical limits).

They don't need to fight three thugs on the serum, they just need to have fought anyone with any degree of competency whatsoever, and people like Spy Smasher and Tarantula do not fall under that category for obvious reasons. Steve doesn't need to get close, he can toss things at Bruce's lower body, and the latter is obviously going to have extremely limited speed and mobility in this scenario especially in contrast to Steve. He has no cane here so I don't know why you want to put that scenario forward. Cap doesn't have a fire extinguisher, does he? All the tactical abilities in the world are not going to mean much if Steve just knocks Bruce on his back, he wouldn't even be able to get up.

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#30 Posted by desmond006 (598 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not seeing anyway Batman can win. Captain America takes this.

#31 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve Rodgers.

#32 Posted by nickthedevil (13873 posts) - - Show Bio

The Captain in a Good stomp.

#33 Posted by WarBlade539 (4752 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Yeah. Machinesmith 'deactivated' the Super-Soldier serum but cannot take away his years of training and experience.

#34 Posted by daak1212 (7866 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve quite easily, In fact Im pretty sure if their in an office building Steve could just walk up steps and throw trashcans and staplers at Bruce....besides the fact he can tangle with Super Soldier guards as scrawny steve

#35 Posted by DangerousLoki (714 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker is not now nor has he ever been faster or more agile than a normal person. He wasn't even faster than Barbara, who is arguably the least skilled of the Bat Clan when she was Batgirl. The Joker has usually caught the upper hand against Batman with weapons, traps, and holding other people hostage. When it comes down to one on one fights, he always loses to Batman. Always. And usually very swiftly at that.

His one feat in a wheel chair in a similar instance is ambushing a gunman and barely being able to take him down after doing so. Barbara's feats don't really look that impressive. Honestly. All Steve would have to do is get behind the Wheelchair (Which he is more then capable of doing.) From there. Bruce is an exposed weakness and one solid kick to the back of the wheelchair will have Bruce in agony on the ground and make him slim pickings. As some one said. The only way bruce takes this is if Steve feels guilty about it.

#36 Posted by eatmore_payless (2209 posts) - - Show Bio

The hell? Steve takes this what can a paralyzed guy on a wheelchair do?

#37 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Someone care to educate me as to how on earth Batman wins?

I mean, this is what scrawny Steve can do:

The only way I can see Batman winning is if Steve feels bad about beating up a guy in a wheelchair.

I thought you said there were 3 roided super solder's he defeated. Can you elaborate how much of a boost those guys got from the small amount of serum they got. If not, then they are just muscle bound meatheads. Batman defeated four armed trained killers and caught a speeding baseball that was slammed with a baseball bat right by his head. That ball alone is gonna move far faster than what scrawny steve can throw as a punch or a kick.

#38 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_:

Since when is Steve the same as goons... And since when does walking with a weaponized cane equal paralyzed from the waist down?

#39 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_ said:

@CitizenBane said:

Someone care to educate me as to how on earth Batman wins?

I mean, this is what scrawny Steve can do:

The only way I can see Batman winning is if Steve feels bad about beating up a guy in a wheelchair.

I thought you said there were 3 roided super solder's he defeated. Can you elaborate how much of a boost those guys got from the small amount of serum they got. If not, then they are just muscle bound meatheads. Batman defeated four armed trained killers and caught a speeding baseball that was slammed with a baseball bat right by his head. That ball alone is gonna move far faster than what scrawny steve can throw as a punch or a kick.

It was not a small amount of serum. Look at them, they are practically bursting out of their skin.

I like how catching a ball is a feat when baseball players do it like... all the time.

#40 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@Kinasin_:

Since when is Steve the same as goons... And since when does walking with a weaponized cane equal paralyzed from the waist down?

Where did you learn that having a broken back equals being paralyzed from the waist down? Since when is batman the same as roided goons? Since when does blowing apart one guys legs with a machine gun and bashing the other guys skull in with an extinguisher equal your own strength?

#41 Posted by jashro44 (25277 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_: It says in the op his legs don't work.

#42 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@Kinasin_: It says in the op his legs don't work.

He didn't throw any kicks against those killers. Being a foot lower wouldn't of changed the outcome of that exchange.

#43 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@Kinasin_ said:

@CitizenBane said:

Someone care to educate me as to how on earth Batman wins?

I mean, this is what scrawny Steve can do:

The only way I can see Batman winning is if Steve feels bad about beating up a guy in a wheelchair.

I thought you said there were 3 roided super solder's he defeated. Can you elaborate how much of a boost those guys got from the small amount of serum they got. If not, then they are just muscle bound meatheads. Batman defeated four armed trained killers and caught a speeding baseball that was slammed with a baseball bat right by his head. That ball alone is gonna move far faster than what scrawny steve can throw as a punch or a kick.

It was not a small amount of serum. Look at them, they are practically bursting out of their skin.

I like how catching a ball is a feat when baseball players do it like... all the time.

Nothing more than Ronnie Coleman. Baseball players don't catch it 5 feet from there head when it's blasted by a baseball bat with a broken back barehanded in a wheelchair.

#44 Posted by DangerousLoki (714 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_: The only thing Batman did in a wheelchair without the use of any gadgets was put down one goon. He needed to ambush him and even then struggled pretty hard with him. The OP states he doesn't have the use of his legs. Meaning that he's wheelchair bound. Steve has mobility and skill. Batman has no mobility and skill. As I stated earlier. All Steve has to do is get behind Bruce and Bruce won't be able to do anything to prevent a hard shot to the broken back. After that, it's a mop up. Even if Steve by some miracle wasn't able to do this. Bruce will still be fighting with a disadvantage greater than his own. Steve has too many ways to come at him. Bruce goes down.

#45 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_ said:

@Erik said:

@Kinasin_:

Since when is Steve the same as goons... And since when does walking with a weaponized cane equal paralyzed from the waist down?

Where did you learn that having a broken back equals being paralyzed from the waist down? Since when is batman the same as roided goons? Since when does blowing apart one guys legs with a machine gun and bashing the other guys skull in with an extinguisher equal your own strength?

  • Silly me, I was just going off of what the OP stated. "Batman's back is broken(legs don't work)..."
  • Batman is normally much better than roided goons. The scans are not intended to be used for such an argument anyway. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.
  • Blew apart an opponent's legs with a shotgun...
  • Fire extinguishers are aplenty in office buildings... Just saying.

You going to answer my questions now?

#46 Posted by IKnowEverything (357 posts) - - Show Bio

lol Steve wins. I can't believe thats even an argument

#47 Posted by Erik (33327 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kinasin_ said:

@Erik said:

It was not a small amount of serum. Look at them, they are practically bursting out of their skin.

I like how catching a ball is a feat when baseball players do it like... all the time.

Nothing more than Ronnie Coleman. Baseball players don't catch it 5 feet from there head when it's blasted by a baseball bat with a broken back barehanded in a wheelchair.

  • Jesus... You are serious?
  • Baseball players do not normally catch a ball swung at them from 5 feet away but neither did Bruce. And it was not a baseball bat. It is a cricket bat... and those do not hit with the same force as a baseball bat.
  • Bruce was not in a wheelchair and baseball players catch baseballs in their hands all the time.
#48 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@Kinasin_ said:

@Erik said:

@Kinasin_:

Since when is Steve the same as goons... And since when does walking with a weaponized cane equal paralyzed from the waist down?

Where did you learn that having a broken back equals being paralyzed from the waist down? Since when is batman the same as roided goons? Since when does blowing apart one guys legs with a machine gun and bashing the other guys skull in with an extinguisher equal your own strength?

  • Silly me, I was just going off of what the OP stated. "Batman's back is broken(legs don't work)..."
  • Batman is normally much better than roided goons. The scans are not intended to be used for such an argument anyway. How you came to that conclusion is beyond me.
  • Blew apart an opponent's legs with a shotgun...
  • Fire extinguishers are aplenty in office buildings... Just saying.

You going to answer my questions now?

1. Just stating a fact that having a broken back doesn't equal being paraylized from the waist down.

2.The same way you came to the conclusion of asking, "since when is steve the same as goons"

3.Good for him. You downplay batman's use of a cane when he actually was fighting armed killers and actually caught a knife thrown at his head and tossed it back knocking the guy out. Right.

4.They sure are. They are plenty useful when you don't have much strength also.

#49 Posted by kcaz (1371 posts) - - Show Bio

bruce grabs steve and turns it into a submission hold. steve loses

#50 Edited by Kinasin_ (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

@DangerousLoki said:

@Kinasin_: The only thing Batman did in a wheelchair without the use of any gadgets was put down one goon. He needed to ambush him and even then struggled pretty hard with him. The OP states he doesn't have the use of his legs. Meaning that he's wheelchair bound. Steve has mobility and skill. Batman has no mobility and skill. As I stated earlier. All Steve has to do is get behind Bruce and Bruce won't be able to do anything to prevent a hard shot to the broken back. After that, it's a mop up. Even if Steve by some miracle wasn't able to do this. Bruce will still be fighting with a disadvantage greater than his own. Steve has too many ways to come at him. Bruce goes down.

Steve doesn't have the same level of martial arts training as batman. He could one shot him with a nerve strike. Batman even in a wheelchair isn't gonna sit there and let him get behind him. Steve also knows nothing of him, may go for a direct approach to his dismay. In the end batman can turn in the wheelchair if steve did try to go for a backattack. Although Batman more than likely would use psychology against him and bring him in for a quick nerve strike and win.