Brienne and The Hound vs. The Mountain and Jon Snow

I would have to go with Brienne and the Hound, they have more fighting experience than the Mountain an Jon Snow. They would just need to take out Jon Snow and double team up on the Mountain.

We know Gregor would r@pe Sandor, but Jon isn't really that featful at all in the show. I think he can hold Brienne long enough for Mountain to do his business and than crush puny blonde woman.

Brienne and the hound can potentially take down or most likely stalemate the Mountain.

Jon is a very good swordsmen but he isn't on the level of the Hound or Brienne.

So basically Brienne or the Hound has to hold of the mountain long enough so that the other one can take out Jon.And after Jon is taken out they team up and win.

Two reasons why that won't work.

1. Brienne is a character full of honor and probably won't kill Jon since she has obligated her self to Catelyn Stark.

2. The Mountain knows of the fire trauma the Hound is having. The mountain will than exploit his knowledge, kills his little brother quickly and then Brienne has a serious problem. ( The Hound vs The Mountain is also the most likely start of the battle)

Sandor and Brienne 3/5

@suske_amoras: @thanofleeze: I think you guys might be overrating The Mountsin I single combat. It is all but stated in the books that a The Hound is superior to his brother in single combat. It is even shown as during their fight, the Hound held back and was still able to stalemate a bloodlusted Mountain, if serious the Hound would kill him. The Hound is second only to Jaimebin the books.

Brienne and Jon would be a good fight IMO but I think Brienne would eventually win due to physical superiority, skill wise they are close to the same level.

Brienne > Jon

Hound >> Mountain

So obviously the Hound and Brienne should win.

I might also add that the fight with Brienne and Hound disgusted me. By hear two characters never even one another met in the books and had they fought, The Hound would crush her. I understand that he was slowed due to his wounds festering and she had a Valyrian steel sword but still, they should have had him fall due to wounds festering and used the fight time on something better like say........STONEHEART!!!!!

Edit: I forgot that the two might of unknowingly encountered one another but that isn't confirmed yet.

You do realize that G.R.R. Martin is one of the voices behind the show too, right? You shouldn't take fanboyism to the extremes.

Brienne and Hound win.

Brienne can handle Jon without doubt and Hound vs Mountain is debatable.

As a 1vs1.

It is not debatable that Hound can handle the mountain for longer and with less wounds/fatigue than Jon can handle Brienne.

Personally using tv feats only snow has the most feats he's also killed multiple enemies at once and fought established chracters with feats, plus he has highest durability showings as well I think he's highly underrated

Jon has the lowest showings among the four here.

Gregor was bloodlusted during the Hand's Tourney and Sandor was just fighting defensively and had it under control. So no, we don't know what you say is going to happen in regards to the brothers.

@tt_4_humanity: why?

Team 1

Team 1. Brienne beating the Hound was an absolute joke.

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Lost against Karl, was beat up by Craster, admitted Robb (who wanted no part of Jaime) was a better fighter.

@thanofleeze: GRRM does have a voice in the show but HBO can take any creative measures that they want while sticking to the main storyline. Me thinking that a person who should be completely outclassed (due to the books) beating their superior is ridiculous is not fanboy ism. I felt the same way about that ridiculous Ned vs. Jaime fight.

Also I might point out that GRRM himself has pretty much explicitly stated that the Hound is basically the class of Westeros behind Jaime. And also showed this throughout the books. You can call me a fanboy for not liking changes to characters all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous.

I'v no idea where this thread is at but i'm bumping it anyway. I love me some Game of Thrones:>)

@rogueshadow: I didn't think HBO could screw things up any worse than the Ned vs. Jaime fight and then they throw in that abomination of a Brienne vs. Sandor fight.

@tt_4_humanity: those things are all BS additions to the show that I REALLY hated; particularly the Karl fight and Jon saying Robb was the better fighter which is the exact opposite from the books. Jon also defeated Halfhand, Magnar and countless others.

Isn't this show versions?

And did Jon really defeat Halfhand, or did Halfhand take a dive? As for the countless others, I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of them, didn't know his tally was that big.

@cregan_stark: If you watch the fight more closely, Sandor doesn't use his left hand side throughout the entire battle, except to swing wild punches, so the bite had clearly taken its toll. Plus Brienne had Valyrian steel... But even factoring that in, Sandor should have won that fight with difficulty. At peak he would defeat her with low difficulty. But then Brienne is a lot older on the show... But it's still stupid no matter which way you slice it.

Oh the Ned vs Jaime was way worse, at least Brienne is supposed to be deadly and Sandor was badly hampered by the flaws pointed out. Ned is above average and nothing more, he should have been fodder for Jaime.

@rogueshadow: He was sick, hungry, and injured. Brienne beat him the only way she knows how: ridiculous stamina.

Her entire fighting style is based on not losing for so long that the opponents tire themselves out.

Ned vs Jaime was fine. Jaime wasn't serious at all and Ned was bloodlusted to all Hell.

Team 1

@boringperson: I pretty much articulated those points in my post. Your right her stamina is ridiculous, she rows for an entire night, Jaime has her at first in the book fight, but he weakens and she prevails. She's yet to beat a noteworthy foe who is at 100% without resorting to bullrushing him [Loras]. You can never take away the fact the wench can row.

I disagree about Jaime, Jaime was laughing and whatnot, but that's just his character, he was also bloodlusted over Tyrion's kidnapping. Neither were planning on actually killing the other though in my opinion, even though Jaime later says he didn't kill him just because it wouldn't have been clean to do so following his wounding, I think he is far smarter than he lets on.

@cregan_stark: Jon only beat the Halfhand because the Halfhand let him. And I can't believe people downplay Robb so much. The guy fought a war, was in the thick of the fighting almost every time (he takes after Ned, and Ned Stark wasn't the kind of man to have other fight in his stead) and never lost a battle. Robb was much more of an asskicker than many give him credit for. We just never actually "see" him fight. Like many characters in GoT, his asskickery is talked about and inferred much more than it's actually shown.

@tt_4_humanity: Jon has certainly killed more people than Brienne that we've seen. Also Halfhand was holding back for sure.

@schillenger420: Robb is never mentioned as being a great swordsman in the books. Jon was the better sword and Robb the better lance, he says so proudly in GOT, I think it was to Tyrion.

@rogueshadow: I agree that he should have won a difficult battle due to his injuries, I actually didn't notice that he wasn't using his other arm until you said something and I rewatched it. Makes more sense but she still should lose.

Ned and Jaime was just plain bad I agree.

@schillenger420: I'm just going by the books explicitly stating that Jon is a better fighter than Robb. Robb is an excellent military leader and truly never lost a battle but that is more to strategy and excellent planning than his efficiency with a sword. Robb is like Ned in that regard as Ned was an excellent military commander (likely the best in the series) but only an sbove average swordsman. Jon might not be as good of a commander as Robb but he's still a great commander as we see from his defense of the wall.

This.

@cregan_stark: We actually have no idea how good of a swordsman Ned was. As he told Jaime, he doesn't fight in tourney's because he doesn't want his opponents to know what he can do. When he fights, it's for real. Ned's biggest feat was actually going up against Arthur Dayne and a couple other Kingsguard and walking away. Granted, the odd's were in Ned's favor, but not by that much, and this was Arthur Dayne we're talking about. If Ned was only "above average" he wouldn't have survived. Granted, he mentions that Howland Reed was instrumental in that regard, but Dayne was one of, if not THE best swordsman in GoT. If Ned was only above average, he wouldn't have lived long enough for Reed to have helped him. We really have no clue how good Ned was with a sword, but i'd contend he was better than merely, "above average".

@schillenger420: We have no clue what happened at the Tower of Joy, you can't use that as any sort of reference for feats until we know exactly what happened there.

Just my opinion, but Howland Reed performed some magic, no way Ned's 7 could defeat those three other wise, by rights Arthur Dayne could take out 4 or 5 alone. GRRM has gone on the record to say that Ned was a competent swordsman and nothing more.

@rogueshadow: @schillenger420: RogueShadow you have a habit of taking the words right out of my mouth before I can say them. Everything that you said was 100% true.

Reed almost certainly used either magic or poison in that fight.

Yeah but more people /=/ better skill. Brienne has good feats fighting against skilled and renowned fighters. Jon being up North, not as much.

So Halfhand doesn't count. :P

Team 1 should win.

The Hound and the Mountain is debatable, but I'd give the edge to Sandor due to his superior speed and comparable strength.

Brienne could likely beat Jon is a duel, and even if she couldn't she'd just tackle him to the ground and beat his face in.

Then it becomes the Hound and Brienne vs the Mountain, which is a fight I don't see the Mountain winning.

@cregan_stark: Howland Reed using magic or poison in that fight is pure and utter speculation. He could have helped Ned in any number of ways. Granted, magic or poison are certainly options.... but it could have been something as simple as distracting Dayne from making the killing blow somehow... or shoot.... just throwing a net on him. I still say Ned wouldn't have lived long enough for Reed to even help if he hadn't been better than just a 'competent swordsmen.' Dayne was supposed to be THAT good. Apparently GRRM said Ned was just "competent", but GRRM has a habit and history of toying with his fans for fun. He's the kind of guy who'll say outlandish things just to see if people believe him.

Don't know why people are complaining about the Brienne and Hound fight. Sure they didn't fight in the book but a lot of stuff in the show hasn't happened in the book either. I also know the Hound would have won but he was badly injured so he weakened that's why he lost.

Also Brienne and Hound will win this fight

Team 1.

Team 1, Jon is the weak link. For now at least.

Sandor beats Gregor in 1v1, barely, but he still beats him. Mountain is the most feared man in Westeros, mostly because he's great battlefield killing machine. With 2 handed sword worn in one hand and 8 feet height he's slicing men left and right in close ranks. In this fight team 1 wins.

But still he's one of the best fighters in Westeros, plus his size, strength and ferocity coupled with his skill he's probably number 1 fighter. And Brienne is a woman, highly skilled though and big, but still woman :D

So your sexist I see..............................jk.

Snow Mountain stomp!

hahaha knew it

@schillenger420: why would GRRM toy with people by saying a long character is simply above average as a swordsman? It makes no sense and it isn't as if he only said this once. Read SSM, people ask him these types of questions all the time.

You're saying that the suggestion that Reed could have used magic or poison (both very much part of the abilities and fighting style of his people) is pure speculation but at the same time you want us to disregard direct remarks from the author because you don't agree with what he said?

Gregor came out fine against Sandor except when they were children. XD And he's not afraid of him, both have killed hundreds of random nobodies.

@cregan_stark: Poison's definitely something his people use.... magic?.?.? Not so much. Remember, magic's essentially gone from the world at the time of that battle. It doesn't really re-awaken until the dragon's do, which is well after that fight. At this point in the timeline, magic's pretty well dead. It's just not available for use. As far as what GRRM say's.... the guy has a known history of messing with his fans. That should be taken into account and the things he say's should therefor be taken with a grain of salt. Ned fought in and survived battles too numerous to count and is one of the very VERY few to every fight Dayne and walk away. That's his story.... from which I believe proves him to be better than merely a, "competent swordsman".

@schillenger420: GRRM actually doesn't have a reputation for messing with his fans outside of the books themselves, he's pretty straight up. That aside, there is no reason for him to lie about Eddard being a competent swordsman.

Magic is gone from the world, but the Crannogmen are potentially descended from the COTF, we know there is certainly the potential for him to have powers, since his son has the greensight.

There are just too many extraneous variables for us to take that battle into account, I don't think it should be seen as any kind of feat for any combatant present until we know what happened. I could just as easily argue that Arthur has a feat of incredible skill there because he still managed to nearly kill Ned despite Howland's magic, but I can't because I have no idea what transpired at the TOJ.

I extricate it from all consideration in battles because it makes no sense to consider it, we have no idea what happened there.

@rogueshadow: While I understand what your saying and consider your logic here to be pretty flawless.... it's difficult to just remove that battle from any equation involving the Starks. ToJ was Arthur Daynes last stand.... arguably thee best swordsman in all of GoT. Ned fighting him and surviving is one hell of a feat. To simply remove that.... act as if it never happened seriously neuters Ned (and as an extension the Starks) to a serious degree.

@schillenger420: Well, agree to disagree.

@schillenger420:

Honestly GRRM's word is literally all that matters, they are his books and this is his story. He left mystery about the ToJ for many reasons, but Ned being a secret badass (despite the expressed words of the author) isn't one of those reasons.

I'm a huge Ned Stark fan, he's one of my favorite characters behind only Jon Snow but I can admit that he's not a great swordsman. I know this because the man who created the character has said so. Ned is possibly the best commander that we've seen but he's not a swordsman (much like Robb).