Blue Beetle vs Superman

if flash can beat the beatle, so can supes

Despite appearances, that's not Flash beating Blue Beetle. Blue Beetle wins that fight. It continues thus....

hm... would superman have the strength to penetrate that un-penetrable sheild? besides, superman would be as cocky as whoever that guy is. he does what's neccesary to overcome his opponant without distrupting humanity. i'll have to go superman on this one.

Supes.

That guy is a future version of Bart Allen.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"That guy is a future version of Bart Allen."

AH! the fourth flash!

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"Technically, the speed Bart was hitting him, it wouldn't matter if it was Superman punching. Punching at near light speed would be hitting with a near infinite mass. That was Beetle off-guard, later, as the fight continues, BB uses an energy bubble to protect himself andstuns Bart as he tries to breach it. I still maintain that if they both square up for an all out fight, then BB takes it. Superman wins if we take character into account as neither Jaime or Superman will kill and Superman is used to weilding his powers in nonlethal ways."

I see "near light speed" nowhere on that page. When a Flash uses an IMP they usually preface it and there's a noticeable affect. For example, I think it was Wally using it against a martian and he explained what was happening and then when he hit him, the guy flew into orbit. Doesn't look like what's happening here. What that looks like is just really fast punches, like the kind Flashes use on everyday villains and their rogues yet doesn't kill them. As far as I'm concerned, those punches don't seem like they're packing as much force as a hit from Superman could deliver, even in a simple flick.

I really don't see how BB wins. If they fight like they do in comics, Superman wins. If they fight all out, Superman wins even faster with a full power, body-destroying hit faster than Jamie can even notice his presence. Nothing Jamie has shown me says otherwise.

Bart does catch him completely off-guard. Your scenario of Superman coming at him before he can notice his presence, relies on the same tactic. Alternatively, what if it was BB that started the fight, catching Superman unawares? Kryptonite death rays, followed by other heavy ordinance would leave Superman a smear in a glass crater. With both Superman and BB ready, he has more of a chance to use defensive equipment and his more powerful weaponry, I think Superman may well win that fight because of his superior speed and experience.

cpt_linger says:

"AH! the fourth flash!"

6th actually... but why quibble...

M

Random question... but can BB's armor withstand Superman level punches? and does it have the capability to produce red sun radiation?

M

I was just giving scenarios for a normal fight and a bloodlusted battle. The normal one came earlier, the bloodlust thing was just an example of what Supes could do if he wasn't held back. I think Supes not holding back would be much different from what happened in the comic. He wouldn't let up and be all smug, he'd fly through him the same way he blasted through a moon. BB starting the fight is a scenario where one gets advanced warning so I didn't really pay it any mind, but say he does it, I don't think it would be that different from what I said in my first post. The Kryptonite ray he used before didn't kill Supergirl did it? He wasn't trying to, but still, he hasn't shown the level of damage I think he'd need to bring down Superman. He's talked about it, even then not really, but he hasn't shown it. Supes has been hit with nukes and city destroying attacks and been fine, Blue Beetle hasn't shown that kind of stuff so I don't think it would make much difference if he started the fight or not. It'd be his best bet, but he'd have to pull out all the stops and not screw up and give Supes a chance to recover, and even then I'm not sure.

Methos says:

"but can BB's armor withstand Superman level punches? and does it have the capability to produce red sun radiation? M"

As it normally is, probably not if Superman really goes for it. We know it can modify itself for new opponents, though I don't know if has that level of ability. We have seen it say it could produce Kryptonite radiation, I think red sun is a fair assumption.

I'm curious as to how strong BB's shields are now...

are they GL level?

invisible woman level?

anyone know?

M

Well as I said in the beginning, I think Superman would win under ordinary circumstances. I did say nuke after he'd been weakened by Kryptonite. An all out fight is difficult to call though because we see Jaime constantly holding the scarab back from using it's most devestating weaponry, so we have no idea what it's really capable off.

I can't recall his wing shields being taken down (I don't have my comics in front of me though) but he doesn't fight super powerful guys all that often so it's hard to tell.

Methos says:

"I'm curious as to how strong BB's shields are now... are they GL level? invisible woman level? anyone know? M"

In issue 20 he was deflecting blasts from a scarab enhanced Sinestro ring. The creators of the scarab seemed to think he should have been thrashed though and that it was a lack of imagination and will power from Peacemaker (who was using it) that was dragging it out.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"Well as I said in the beginning, I think Superman would win under ordinary circumstances. I did say nuke *after* he'd been weakened by Kryptonite. "

Yeah, but I still don't think that's enough. I've seen Supes take a nuke (or some equivalent) while standing in Kryptonite or some crazy situation like that (I say like that, but I'm pretty sure it was exactly that). And back to the Supergirl thing, what he hit her with didn't do more than surprise her that it hurt at all. It didn't take her out of the fight or drop her out of the sky. Not saying he's limited to only that, but I'm going off what I see. (I do imagine he can scale it up if he wants, but it's not something he's shown yet.)

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"In all out fight is difficult to call though because we see Jaime constantly holding the scarab back from using it's most devestating weaponry, so we have no idea what it's really capable off."

That's why I keep qualifying my statements with "yet" and that sort of thing. We don't know what he can do right now, but from what we do know, I don't see it as enough.

Methos says:

"I'm curious as to how strong BB's shields are now... are they GL level? invisible woman level? anyone know? M"

His wings were able to withstand the rocket launcher fire. He was right under it with lobo and ravage.

BB.

BUMP

@Static Shock said:

Blue Beetle's armor can discharge Kryptonite radiation. That's all I gotta say...

BB

Blue Beetle ftw

Superman wins without too many issues. Yes, the scarab can produce Kryptonite radiation, but that's hardly an instant I-win against Clark, and at any rate all Jaime's K-ray accomplished was causing Supergirl some pain. Half of Superman's rogues gallery is filled with people who use Kryptonite in much larger quantities and still lose to him, and there are even people like Ruin who use red solar radiation that doesn't take Clark out immediately (in the event that the scarab picks an alternate Kryptonian weakness to exploit). The scarab's best weapon against Superman should be that missile that allegedly could blow up the planet, but given that its only appearance was from an issue where Jaime was mind-controlled and evil, it shouldn't arise in anything other than a morals-off scenario (and in a scenario like that, Superman could kill Blue Beetle in 300 different ways before he could even blink). Jaime's ability to inflict significant damage to Clark is questionable, he's sorely outmatched in speed and durability, and he's not tough enough to take blows from Superman for long.

Blue Beetle has the advantage and could beat Superman many ways.

1.) the obvious answer, Kryptonite.

2.) Ultra Sonic Sound wave, since superman has super hearing, sending an ultra sonic sound wave could even kill him. 3.) in the show Young Justice it is said that in the future Impulse comes from Blue Beetle is the leader of a rebellion and has even beaten the entire Justice League.

@buckshotwashere: superman is not stronger than all speedsters. Wally would easily beat superman and Bart Allen blooded up super boy prime. Wally west would curb stomp superman if they actually fought. Anyway idk too much about blue beetle but I'm sure he could use kryptonite to weaken superman but idk about blue beetle that much. I'm just now getting into the character.

9 years ago, really? Now, did I say (9 years ago) that Superman was "stronger than all speedsters"? I don't believe so. I believe what I was saying was that Superman is capable of stronger hits than what Wally is demonstrating on that page, which is being used as a measure for Blue Beetle's defense. It's not about whether a Flash can beat Superman, it was about how much force Flash seemed to be hitting BB with and how much more force Superman is capable of. Flashes being capable of high levels of destruction or even outright beating Superman doesn't have much to do with Superman being able to easily hit harder than what it looks like was taking place in the pages posted.

Now I've looked back at the first page just to see if maybe what you were talking about was there. Looks like I did say Superman is stronger than any Flash. I stand by it. Superman IS stronger than any Flash. A speedster being able to impart as much force as Superman through speed exploits, doesn't actually make them stronger, and being able to beat someone doesn't make you stronger. Blink could kill Thing by teleporting him into the sun but her ability to beat him doesn't make her stronger. But back to the speed/strength thing, come at me when a Flash can physically lift and carry a pyramid.

Blue beetle does have a means to injure him and a vase array of weaponry but hey supes is gonna be supes

@buckshotwashere: Yeah, he's back!

Since this thread was revived... I'm curious if anyone has since tried to flesh out the Reach's full, intimidating backstory as implied by the Rogers run on Blue Beetle, and how well that worked out if so.

I always thought it might work better if it always went unexplained, since the villains were so interesting as these slimy middle-management types that held a slavering army in check but at some point had pressured the Guardians into accepting their existence, if not the full scope of their plans.

Blue Beetle's Scarab has weaponry that can destroy the planet. Jamie just refuses to use them.

Also has nifty things like Kryptonite radiation.