#151 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Lobo blitzed Superman before, Lobo has shown to use superman against robot, so its pretty clearly Lobo does have some degree of Superspeed, so whats the argument that Lobo isnt fast.

He has fought plentry of fast people before without being on a receiving end of a blitz, only difference being against an Eclipso amped Superman, and has consistently held his own against fast people.

Has few feats outside of Superman fight as well.

So in short there is nothing to show he was slow.

I can't hear anything over the internet. Best I can do is interpret your writing and I'm not intentionally ignoring anything you've said thus far. If you think I've had, feel free to be specific as to what I'm not "hearing." You've all made it abundantly clear he's blitzed a slower iteration of Superman from the past. Outside that he hasn't shown me anything particularly beyond most street level characters in speed. I wouldn't even call what Eclipso Superman did to him a speed-blitz since it was more or less four consecutive punches that dropped Lobo, it's about as much of a speed-blitz as Thor dropping Gladiator in three hits.

Thor's held his own against an assortment of "fast" characters, if none of them even bothered to apply their speed why would it matter if he had? Even the Silver Surfer was speeding around to fight Thor in orbit. Lobo isn't slow, he just isn't anywhere close to as fast as Superman and friends are when they're written at their peak's (although that might be saying something about the people he's fought). We've seen some element of Superspeed but it wasn't out of Namor's ball-park to be honest and that isn't saying much.

Although Nova apart from flying around at super speed isnt really know to be fast, nor has he ever really shown anything really concrete about speed.

Marvel really, only ever has, fixed speedsters show speed.

He's the human rocket, I don't know how that isn't supposed to be fast. Although he did do that FLT kick to break that star-system barrier once upon a time that fried him.

I like how you are using only 3 panels from the fights.

Lets look at the full fight.

So a bloodlusted Thor there fights Masterson for a whole issue and cant still win, in fact doesnt even get any real advantage but we are supposed to believe Thor just massively outclasses him?

why?

After all Erik Masterson was Thor. He has all the powers of Thor, and any sort of hyper-perception he would have. Only thing he was missing is experience and skill.

Skill can account for speed, so some small extent, but its not going to make you from slower than Spiderman to as fast as Superman.

Warlock was describing Thor has being as fast as lighting, you can go around in it in circles, thats pretty solidly been debunked, given Iron Fist is faster.

And its not like he blitzed them or anything.

I've seen the fight, I've posted it on Vice more than enough times to boot. Masterson wasn't at all Thor's equal that fight.

Masterson initially to his own admission believes Thor to be his superior in strength and could not land a blow on him despite his efforts. In said fight, Thor is slapping him around as Masterson desperately trying to keep Mjolnir in his possession. It's all just one big showing as to why Thor is the legitimate God of Thunder and his superiority to his replacement. The only hit Masterson gets that actually was effective was with Mjolnir and that was while Thor was CHOCKING HIM OUT.

You could pretend that this wasn't a one-sided fight, but it clearly was. If he had all the powers of Thor than why is Thor muttering on about giving him his power and how Masterson believes Thor to be stronger? Because Masterson had a long run, it was however plagued with a slew of moments that said "he's no Thor". There's a reason he was calling himself a dork. It doesn't help Thor inevitably kills the man to boot or that his son is clearly not in Thor's league.

How do you solidly debunk that? And what does this have to do with Iron Fist? You're stringing a bunch of nonsensical elements together as an argument.

Not sure what this says, Thor already got blitzed by Wolverine when he used speed. He also got blitzed by a lot more people.

Pretending you dont like them doesnt make it go away.

And many times has Thor lost to slow people before again?

Goes both ways mate.

(Not addressing the Annihilation scans, coz actually what you said sounds correct, i concede on that part)

Show me Thor getting "blitzed" by Wolverine, because that didn't even happen in the abysmal Wolverine VS Thor narrative. The best Wolverine gets is his magical appearance in the sky and a few direct hits (but lucky for Thor he has that Asgardian skin - the stuff that didn't help Asgardians at all against Daken), outside that Thor was actually defending himself from him in that fight.

Pretending what? Wolverine VS Thor was a badly written comic-book that made Wolverine out to be a moron and Thor to be a weaker version of the Hulk with better durability? It doesn't take much pretending. I don't know, how many "slow" people have defeated Thor over the course of his thousands of appearances? What goes both ways?

Yeah that is not something special and that doesnt really show speed.

I can try something similar with Thor when he was getting blitz the same way by Mangog

Still doesnt change the fact that Marvel puts Mangog has one of the slowest brute there is, and puts Hulk and Hercules at same speed, coz they actually are (Hercules of course is more skilled)

How is Mangog smashing Thor a handful of times compare to Hercules dropping multiple dozens of punches on the Hulk's face in the matter of two short sentences?

Rest is pretty much you making excuse of Thor clear lack of speed.

Lets see.

On panel evidence that Thor is slow and no where close to Superman or the likes in terms of speed:

1. Blitz by Mongoose (The Mighty Thor 391), who cant even tag spiderman

2. Blitz by Mongoose again (The Mighty Thor 408)

He tagged Spiderman with his gas and Thor saved Spiderman's life. Where's the blitz in the first book? - Mongoose as banking on Thor exhausting himself to beat him. Thor however quite literally does a twirl and sends him packing. The second one Thor is dazed and disoriented from the Gas so he can't defend himself. (Thor picked a bad time to start breathing air I guess) Mongoose would not be able to replicate these showings in modern comics to boot.

So thanks for finally giving me a clear look at these scans, so we could finally dismiss this myth surrounding Classic Thor being blitz by Mongoose, who can only do that to Thor after he's been gassed up / weakened. You know, sorta like how you claimed was an issue with Wolverine, except in this case he was actually handicapped. Thor at full health = Mongoose can't blitz.

3. Captain America commenting on Thor's Lack of speed (while the person on the scan is Erik Masterson, read Captain America's comment on the right, second last panel) - Thor 447

No Captain America was commenting about an off-panel issue Thor had with the same exercise, in order to make Masterson feel better. Generally if it isn't on panel, and in this case X-character is trying to make Y character feel better about themselves, it isn't worth posting. Case and Point:

I heard the Sentry beat Galactus off-panel. X-Man helped too, those two = Galactus. How often do people bring that up in a debate for the Sentry and have it taken seriously? Why is this different? Because of double-standards, that's why. The Sentry's was at least corroborated by X-Man, Cap here is just muttering on about something that wasn't consistent with a depowered Thor that was able to hang with him and save his life.

4. Blitz by Spiderman (this is Erik Masterson) - The Mighty Thor 448

Not Thor and Thor's actually killed Spiderman anyways with a hammer toss into orbit (canon).

5. Fight with Wolverine - Thor himself admits Wolverine is faster than him, fourth scan last panel, fifth scan first panel.

Like I said what's hilarious about this showing is Wolverine performs better than a host of cosmic beings and Gods. Not to mention no-shows Thor's thunderbolts with his awesome aura.

6. Chulain (a footsoldier of Mikaboshi, someone with no superspeed whatsoever to talk about) comments on how slow Thor is before he KOs him with one bast (Thor Blood Oath 05) - read second scan, second last and last panel.

How fast is Chulain then? Lobo fast? Or even faster? All I know is he drops the Warrior's Three about as easily as Thor did in Everything Burns.

Fun Fact - I don't think Thor is as fast as Superman, albeit the gap people perceive, if this is any evidence for it, isn't worth noting.

Tom Brevroot doesnt even believe Thor can run at 150 miles per hours, yeah significantly slower than Superman (unless we could flying around with his hammer shows he is fast)

Tom Brevroot only said he can't recall Thor doing anything close to what the handbooks say he can in regards to running speed. Which is completely true and it only further undermines your next argument considering you go right to those handbooks / bios.

Not the most stellar part of the argument right here.

Bio testifies he is slow

Thor bio, power and ability

Speed Superhuman, on his own Thor is just Superhuman

How fast is Superman:

Same bio goes on to say with his hammer he can travel at warp speed.

The way i see it : On panel evidence matches the handbook matches the Writers commentary which is simple, Thor is slow, lot slower than someone like Superman.

Disagree all you want.

The bio doesn't even confirm that his uncles are long dead, which they are and lumps him with Masterson. And honestly since when were Bios or handbooks remotely accurate?

All you've shown me is an impaired Thor getting blitzed by Mongoose decades ago because of being gassed. That you believe, despite the clear disparity to the contrary, that Masterson is interchangeable with Thor (god forbid we bring in Beta Ray Bill). That Wolverine lasts more than a second against Thor in any fight written with half a brain in mind or _______ god is pretty fast and floored the Warrior's three and stopped Thor from getting his staff before knocking him out.

That's pretty much it. Nothing to disagree with, just plenty to point out as flawed reasoning. Just sayin.

#152 Posted by MonsterStomp (17850 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@ghostrider2: Oh god you're such a fanboy. New 52 MMH wouldn't be able to beat SS but Pre 52 sure as hell has it in him.

Oh yes let's start the fanboy thing just because i don't agree that JLA takes this doesn't mean im a fanboy so stop this nonsense, they are in character.And there are users that side with DC even when they lose.And pre 52 or new 52 MMH, he is still going down.

I called you out because in nearly every Silver Surfer thread, we have you backing Silver Surfer. Yes, JLA are in character, but as soon as Hal or Superman or Arthur goes down, we have a bloodlusted Wonder Woman and Martian right there. I'd say its in character for the JLA to go bloodlusted as soon as a team member goes down...

#153 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12143 posts) - - Show Bio

I say if Aquaman dies first...Martian Manhunter goes Fernus and solos

#154 Edited by GhostRider2 (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: so what?I know him, i read, you know dc more i gues or like it more, and a bloodlusted WW is still nothing to SS, MMH is the only problem.But what if he goes for MMH first and then goes astral plane?He owns them.

#155 Posted by MonsterStomp (17850 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider2: Wonder Woman in character can go toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman and win. Don't underestimate her, she could wreck people like Thor and Hulk. MMH will be more than a problem for SS considering he could calm SS down into character. Numbers and versatility will overwhelm SS.

#156 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

I say if Aquaman dies first...Martian Manhunter goes Fernus and solos

Fernus also can't beat Surfer. And Fernus isn't a bloodlusted Martian, similar as Void isn't a bloodlusted Sentry.

#157 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12143 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

I say if Aquaman dies first...Martian Manhunter goes Fernus and solos

Fernus also can't Surfer. And Fernus isn't a bloodlusted Martian, similar as Void isn't a bloodlusted Sentry.

I read that post once...lol'd .... anyway, Fernus could possibly solo since his telepathic prowess is greater than that of Jonns .... he could arguably mind rape Silver Surfer with a little bit of difficulty ..... but yeah you have a point about Fernus and Void and all that...

#158 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

I say if Aquaman dies first...Martian Manhunter goes Fernus and solos

Fernus also can't Surfer. And Fernus isn't a bloodlusted Martian, similar as Void isn't a bloodlusted Sentry.

I read that post once...lol'd .... anyway, Fernus could possibly solo since his telepathic prowess is greater than that of Jonns .... he could arguably mind rape Silver Surfer with a little bit of difficulty ..... but yeah you have a point about Fernus and Void and all that...

I belive You're basing Your opinion on stomp on White Martians? This is possible, but if Fernus will stand against bloodlusted Surfer, than he won't have a time to do it. Besides, You seem to forgot, that Surfer will be a problem for any telepath, considering that he can't be beaten in Astral Plane. Yeah, there are other ways of dealing with Your enemy by TP, then this one, but I doubt that Fernus will have a time to change tactic. Classic mindr@pe isn't an option. Psi-bolts also aren't one too.

#159 Posted by laflux (15868 posts) - - Show Bio

I belive You're basing Your opinion on stomp on White Martians? This is possible, but if Fernus will stand against bloodlusted Surfer, than he won't have a time to do it. Besides, You seem to forgot, that Surfer will be a problem for any telepath, considering that he can't be beaten in Astral Plane. Yeah, there are other ways of dealing with Your enemy by TP, then this one, but I doubt that Fernus will have a time to change tactic. Classic mindr@pe isn't an option. Psi-bolts also aren't one too.

The only time I have ever disagreed with Morpheus (ha I know treason) was when he said SS couldn't be beaten in the Astral Plane. That simply isn't true, in fact Telepaths are free to come and go into the astral plane at will- @killemall probably has the relevant scans. And how will Fernus not have time to engage SS? Fernus is basically just the unlocked potential all Martains have, and he is just as fast as he was when he flew from Earth to Mars in a few moment, flew round the world before Batman could finish a sentence, keeping pace with Flash etc.

Fernus wouldn't be allowed under the rules anyway, but honestly I would put Fernus at around Thanos' level

#160 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeronimo said:

SS FTW.

This is just one of many different scenarios that all lead to the same result:

This! HAHa, well done.

#161 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: There is no such thing that SS being unbeatable in Astral plane, not sure where people get that from.

In Thy Name 03: the issue where the whole Astral plane thing comes from

So the actual statement made by Silver Sufer was

"Spare your energy. You could leach me dry with ease out there but this plane is a source of the power cosmic you cant hurt me here"

I think that actually translates you cant drain me here , as opposed its Astral plane, and i am unbeatable .

#162 Edited by WillPayton (9439 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#163 Edited by ComicStooge (12764 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeronimo said:

SS FTW.

This is just one of many different scenarios that all lead to the same result:

This! HAHa, well done.

Except Superman isn't the only person he's fighting.

As powerful as he is, I don't think Surfer can take on the whole League and win.

#164 Edited by WillPayton (9439 posts) - - Show Bio

.

#165 Posted by comic_book_fan (5616 posts) - - Show Bio

surfer realistically wins if he is blood lusted if the

#166 Posted by thanosii (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

If it isn't flash it Norrin how about flash and surfer vs the rest.....

#167 Edited by amalgamuniverse (334 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe that MM has complete control over his molecular structure, so therefore, he could continue to reform after SS uses matter manipulatioon, or he just resists it altogether. Either way, right after, MM could mentally sedate him. If he tried to used a black hole, I'm pretty confident that Superman could escape as well as GL, and MM. Maybe not WW. Definitely not Aquaman. J'onn also has intangibility, which could prevent himself from being attacked. Telekinesis also could help with possibly trying to restrain the Surfer. I'm wondering if MM could phase a part of his body through SS's to make him go unconscious.

#168 Posted by nightwing444 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor surfer dude....he dies so horribly....

#169 Posted by dondave (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA

#170 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3673 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, I watched the Avengers last night and I know every one of the characters isn't as powerful as their actual comic-counterpart, however I just kept thinking... If Silver Surfer were here, it wouldn't be a fight. Ignoring the atrocious Fox Fantastic Four movies, and the Plot driven comics in which Norrin suffers from the Flash paradox (coined right here by @killemall), he should win more often than not. I don't believe, in all the Surfer comics I've ever read, that Norrin has blitzed another character but a handful of times. He simply won't do it. Thor is fast, but not nearly as fast as Norrin, Thanos is fast, but get real. I've seen Surfer transmutate life (like the Phoenix), Bfr through wormholes, absorb practically any energy, move through time (iirc he paused time on a planet once), making on panel statements that on the astral plane, he's unstoppable. Honestly, looking at his full powerset, he is arguably (besides reality warping) on panel with Dark Phoenix; on a smaller scale.. I find it annoying that he consistently "Forgets" powers. Superman's the same way, but at least Clark has an excuse. He has to forget powers in order to make the Justice League more useful. So for this battle, specifically due to the combatants, I'm choosing Surfer. Not burdened by WIS, writers forgetting his powers, PIS, losing to people (even overall more powerful) due to CIS, forgetting his own powerset.

Surfer 7-8/10

#171 Posted by CaptnMcDeadpool (960 posts) - - Show Bio

Please take note of Morpheus' comments that essentially are in line with what has already...CLEARLY....been stated on the battle forum rules, which many of the previous comments on here I notice, seem to be ignoring:

PIS and CIS

These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.

Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively. This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)

This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not.

Here are some scans of Wally West getting tagged (I have many, many more by the way):

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I won't post the scans of Deathstroke tagging Wally. I mean, do I really need to for people to get the point? Superman, Wally and the Silver Surfer, all have near light or faster than light combat speed. Yet THEY have all been tagged by much slower opponents. Should the above scans of Wally getting tagged be proof positive he has no reaction speed? The same with the Surfer, who moves through frozen time lines like I go to the corner store. Also, if there was anyone that could match the Surfer in speed, it was Wally West. Who is not on the OP's list.

This scan has been seen on the Vine a million times...yet does anyone here grasp that almost the entire fight with Deathurge is done while time is stopped? I mean, anyone here, including the Surfer fans catch that little tid bit?

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

For all the math guys, that means:

O seconds < one atto second < one femto second < one pico second

What's not to get? Even if Wally was on this team, Surfer takes him out first, presumably, because he is the only one on the JLA fast enough to make a move THAT fast. Once Wally gets taken out (seeing as their speed is equalized, what DOES Wally do?)...the rest as they say is all downhill.

And you may notice in the above scan, Surfer is not bloodlusted.

Surfer mops the floor with the JLA. Especially if he is bloodlusted.

#172 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA

#173 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Ill say SS for the majority.

#174 Edited by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on who SS kills first. If it's Superman, then the JLA are done for. If it's a small-timer (relatively) like Aquaman or GL or something, and Superman gets angry, then SS is as good as dead.

#175 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on who SS kills first. If it's Superman, then the JLA are done for. If it's a small-timer (relatively) like Aquaman or GL or something, and Superman gets angry, then SS is as good as dead.

Actually Martian Manhunter is the most powerful in the OP-given lineup of JLA.

#176 Edited by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks Really? I always thought that if Superman was bloodlusted, he'd be enough to chew through a dozen Surfers. Manhunter is strong, sure, but Superman's got a lot more potential that he holds back to prevent him from harming others.

#177 Posted by Bezza (3634 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on who SS kills first. If it's Superman, then the JLA are done for. If it's a small-timer (relatively) like Aquaman or GL or something, and Superman gets angry, then SS is as good as dead.

How does SS get dead though? I'm a superman fan as much as the next guy, but SS has way too much power for him if he is blood lusted. He can just rip the solar energy out of his body, transport him to a galaxy without a yellow sun, move the sun away from earth, create a kryptonite cage for him, etc, etc. Maybe in a slugging match Supes wins but I don't think it would come to that.

#178 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

@iheartzombies92 said:

Depends on who SS kills first. If it's Superman, then the JLA are done for. If it's a small-timer (relatively) like Aquaman or GL or something, and Superman gets angry, then SS is as good as dead.

How does SS get dead though? I'm a superman fan as much as the next guy, but SS has way too much power for him if he is blood lusted. He can just rip the solar energy out of his body, transport him to a galaxy without a yellow sun, move the sun away from earth, create a kryptonite cage for him, etc, etc. Maybe in a slugging match Supes wins but I don't think it would come to that.

He don't have chance to do that when there are Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern around.

Silver Surfer have very few speed feats, he jobbed a lot in this department and most of his speed feats doesn't put him above Superman in term of speed anyway.

#179 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks Really? I always thought that if Superman was bloodlusted, he'd be enough to chew through a dozen Surfers. Manhunter is strong, sure, but Superman's got a lot more potential that he holds back to prevent him from harming others.

Martian Manhunter's telepathy at its most impressive is on galactic level, and he have performed planetary-level telepathy at least once. Silver Surfer has limited telepathic capability, but he doesn't fare that well against upper-class telepaths. That's pretty much his deadliest power.

#180 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks:

Which surfer have you been reading about. His speed feats are well above supermans, he has quite a few above flash, surfer could win this non bloodlusted fighting competently, the only question is if he plays pacifist and gets caught off gaurd, then he would lose. It'll be an awsome fight regardless but surfer could surely win this.

#181 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks I see, but can MM mind rape Surfer? If he got the chance?

#182 Posted by DarkRaiden (7240 posts) - - Show Bio

SS stomps because not only is he faster, more powerful, has cosmic awareness, and molecular manipulation, but he's far too durable for any of them outside of MMH to even hurt.

Here's his options:

1. Take out MMH right away by turning him to a chicken or opening a blackhole next to him, quickly blitz WW right after and threw her into the blackhole too, laugh at Aquaman, and then drain both Hal and Supes with ease.

2. Fly to one side of the universe, fly back at MFTL speeds and ram them all, killing them instantly.

3. Shoot out a star-busting attack, killing them all.

4. Shoot a planet busting attack, heavily injuring them all, blitz them in this state

5. Manipulate energy from the Crunch again, and wipe them out of existence.

6. Blitz and punch each of them at FTL speeds with strength that put down BRB and easily kill them.

Seriously, bloodlusted Surfer stomp with ease and it's not close. If they were bloodlusted, he'd still win but it'd be closer and if he wasn't bloodlusted and they were, then he might lose. Maybe.

#183 Posted by WillPayton (9439 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

@iheartzombies92 said:

Depends on who SS kills first. If it's Superman, then the JLA are done for. If it's a small-timer (relatively) like Aquaman or GL or something, and Superman gets angry, then SS is as good as dead.

How does SS get dead though? I'm a superman fan as much as the next guy, but SS has way too much power for him if he is blood lusted. He can just rip the solar energy out of his body, transport him to a galaxy without a yellow sun, move the sun away from earth, create a kryptonite cage for him, etc, etc. Maybe in a slugging match Supes wins but I don't think it would come to that.

I suppose the team could physically beat him to death. SS is not immune to physical harm. Also, Wonder Woman has magical gear that would magnify her blows, like when she has seriously hurt Superman with her bracelets or broken through GL constructs with her magical rope wrapped around her fist. Also, a combined TP attack from Aquaman and MMH would be very powerful.

#184 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks:

Which surfer have you been reading about. His speed feats are well above supermans, he has quite a few above flash, surfer could win this non bloodlusted fighting competently, the only question is if he plays pacifist and gets caught off gaurd, then he would lose. It'll be an awsome fight regardless but surfer could surely win this.

Throughout his entire history, he have only 3 or 4 speed feats that put him on or above Superman or Flash. It's not consistent enough, most of his portrayal, he have shown that practically no one have any problem tagging him at all. On the other hand, Superman performs speedster's feats for almost every issues he is in. Same goes with Flash, and the counts of them getting tagged are comparatively smaller. Not to mention most of his speed feats are only against slowpokes like Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Firelord, Terrax etc.

@angryhulks I see, but can MM mind rape Surfer? If he got the chance?

It's possible, and is likely that he can actually attacked Silver Surfer's mind with ease given the magnitude of Martian Manhunter's telepathy that easily eclipsed Professor X and Moondragon's.

#185 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

Normal SS is a pacifistic who avoids conflict, make him blood lusted and this happens:

#186 Edited by AzorAhai (158 posts) - - Show Bio

You got a fully powered power cosmic bloodlusted Silver Surfer can take this. Overkill. JLA has almost no chance. Speed blitz is the key here.

#187 Posted by russellmania77 (15284 posts) - - Show Bio
#188 Posted by WarBlade539 (4577 posts) - - Show Bio
#189 Posted by Wolverine08 (42132 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer.

#190 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9251 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@uberhikari said:

@willpayton said:

@misterwhisper said:

Surfer wins.

Super massive black hole or just transmutes them all.

Not sure a black hole could take down the JLA team when Hal is around. Remember GLs can do things like open wormholes and stuff like that.

What do wormholes have to do with black holes?

Quite a lot. Wormholes and Black Holes are both steep curvatures of space, or gravity wells. In the case of a black hole the curvature is towards the singularity left from a collapsed star... basically just a point-sized volume of space where all the mass of the star now resides. In a wormhole the curvature is also towards a mass of some kind, but the difference is that it curves around and ends up in another part of the universe. Think of it as if you took two black holes and curved the bottoms towards each other until they touch.

But, regardless, the point is that they are related and both would require a massive amount of energy/mass to create or manipulate.

That might be a possibility, but a worm hole is basically a bend in time and space. It is basically explained like have your starting point and ending point represented as dots on a piece of paper and then folding the piece of paper to where the dots touch. However, there are so many factors when talking about the mass and gravitation pull of a black hole.I believe it was Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson that once explained the effect a black hole has on time. He related it to watching a clock getting pulled by the black holes gravity, he said you would see the clock ticking slower and slower until it finally stopped. But if you were to ride along with the clock, you would see it just as normal as you would anywhere else.So even if they managed to go through a worm hole, they could be 20 years in the past or the future. When comparing a Black hole to a worm hole you have to understand the mass difference. A worm hole may bot prove effective if you open it once you past the event horizon of a black hole, reason being, it would be like opening a pressurized cabin at a high altitude. Everything on the other end of the worm hole would get sucked into a small hole, possible exerting a more direct force towards the center of a black hole than before. But, what do I know, it is a comic verses match. :D

#191 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5465 posts) - - Show Bio

SS

#192 Posted by patrat18 (9737 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA.

#193 Posted by adhd_assassin (524 posts) - - Show Bio

ss

#194 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

SS wins even with Flash, imo.

#195 Posted by Mxyzptlk_CV (1163 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA wins

#196 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

If radd really wants to win this and doesn't play pacifist there's nothing the jla can do to stop him. You can add flash and two more characters if u want aside one of them being Dr fate. If not he turns them all to soup.

#197 Edited by alternative_backup (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer has the potential, but not the personality to overcome and play with the JLA. I see the JLA prevail here, but just barely.

#198 Edited by Omnicrono (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer is a powerhouse, but I can't quite see him overtaking the combined forces of Supes, Manhunter, and WW... even if he is bloodlusted.

JLA wins 7 out 10, in my opinion.

Question: Is Surfer resistant to telepathy on Manhunter's level?

#199 Posted by ManInTheMountain (718 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what happens:

Surfer one shots Aquaman, smacks superman with the surfboard and WW and MMH send surfer flying. Surfer is pissed off. He goes intangible and creates energy shields around himself, uses cosmic awareness to drain Superman and Green lantern. Finally, Wonder Woman and MMH had broken through Surfer's barriers and are now attacking him. Surfer transmutes Wonder Woman into a frog, squashes the frog, goes to the Astral Plane and kills MMH.

End of story

#200 Posted by dondave (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA