#1 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio


  • Leader: Superior Spider-Man
  • Powerhouse: Ronin the Accuser
  • Powerhouse: Stryfe
  • Brain: Ultron
  • Misc: Kang the Conqueror
  • Brute: Red Hulk
  • Magic User: Magik
  • vs oceanmaster 21 team
  • leader scarlet spider
  • powerhouses new 52 superman
  • powerhouse wonderwoman with sword and lasso
  • Brain Brainiack 5
  • Misc Blue beetle
  • Brute Red She hulk
  • magic Etrigan
  • rules


    • BFR is allowed
    • Each team has 2 hours of prep
    • Win by death, KO, or BFR
    • Morals are off
    • Fight takes place here on top of the floating island of Manhattan, and can go anywhere after that. One team starts on 1 side of Manhattan, and the other all the way on the other side. They reach here after there done using there prep time.
#2 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

u go first

#3 Posted by blazinasian112 (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@oceanmaster21: Thanks for setting up, and sorry for the delay. This should be a good battle.

@thundergodswrath I believe from another thread you mentioned that we have "basic knowledge on your enemies, and now you have 2 hours to arm yourself a little, and prepare for the fight."

To start things off, I would say Otto Octavius, Ultron, and Kang are the brains of this group in terms of preparation, with just 2 hours. So with basic knowledge about our opponents, I figure they will know the basic weaknesses of their opponents (Superman - kryptonite, etc.)

I know in the past Scarlet Spiderman (Kaine) has taken out Doc Ock, but current Superior Spiderman (Octavius with Spidey's powers in addition to his new tech) should be able to beat or at least stalemate Scarlet Spiderman essentially cancelling each other out (the same goes with Red Hulk and Red She Hulk).

In terms of Blue Beetle, I understand his technology is pretty advanced, but Ultron has showed the ability to control the Phalanx (and the Phalanx were able to control all technology and people before)...so I would say Ultron shuts down the Blue Beetle.

I feel my teams definite wild cards are Magik and Kang the Conqueror especially with BFR allowed - the two of them alone allow my team both teleportation anywhere and time manipulation, two key components to take out powerhouses like Wonderwoman and Superman. In addition to having Ronan, Ultron, Stryfe as support I would say they overwhelm these two powerhouses.

Next goes for Etrigan, while he is an extremely powerful demon, Magik has intimdated the likes of Mephisto

and she could BFR him into Limbo and it would be game over.

This leaves Superman, WonderWoman, Braniac 5 who can face defeat a multiple of ways.

-There's always BFR with Magik into Limbo: especially Superman who is vulnerable to magic and can be harmed by magical creatures, Magik's Soulsword can also disrupt magic/enchantments so may be capable of shattering WW's bracelets and cutting the Lasso

-Kang: his armor is equipped with time technology allowing him to have access to a wide variety of weaponry and to open time portals in different locations

He may decide to whip out some kryptonite.

He also has many impressive weaponry like his Cobalt force glove (which he used on Thor to increase his weight to half the planet) to neutralize Superman or Wonderwoman

and to counteract Superman and WW's amazing speed there's always time freeze:

And then let's not forget about Ronan...

While Superman, WW are frozen in time he can create a localized blackhole essentially BFR them

Creating a temporal displacement bubble aging them to their doom:

or good old fashion BFR:

and even Mind controlling them:

and if Ronan is confronted head on he can a barrier of absolute zero that was able to hold a herald

or use a Stasis field (like when he used it against Blackbolt to turn his own power against him)

Let's also not forget Ultron's ability to paralyze his opponents or his Encephalo ray

Good fight but I think my team has too much of a well balanced attack with manipulation of technology, time, space, dimensions.

Your move

#4 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes it is I put up my debate tommrow I using my cell I cnt debate on my cell and my pc is repairing it self so tommrow I. post

#5 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

yes ur team is pretty powerful and very intelectiual i didnt know they were that good especially kang. good work but dont count my team out just yet.

well since magic is ur ace in the hole we all no etrigan is gonna go after her.

now as i see ur magic is very powerful but shes only defeated mephisto as who is a powerful demon but etrigan has actually defeated lucifer and blue devil all by himself. hell actually fears etrigan

his physical strenght isnt bad as well he punched superman out of earths orbit.

he also posses the sword of satain which has incredible powers of its own which ik magic has powers of her own but can she handle being damged by the sword of lucifer himself thats doubtful

second Scarlet spider. hes gonna go for ur superior spider

scarlet spider is An imperfect clone of Peter Parker who due to his degeneration was significantly superior to Spider-man il almost every aspect.


Easily slaps around Ben Reilly who stated even with both hands he couldn't hold back Kaine's 1:

Pulls down half a building with ease:

Pulls down a big part of the street from in the sewers:

Beats down the Rhino with brute force:

Taking on multiple Spider-man clones and 1-shot killing them with ease:


Takes a direct 10ton punch from Peter head-on and doesn't even feel it. Peter states in surprise that it should have taken his head off:

Takes a bullet with no ill effects. This is also a speed feat. Look how far Kaine is from Shannon and yet he manages to get behind her before the cop fires and before he can finish his own sentence. Thats some wild speed:

Strength feat tossing car 1 handed) and what is most likely his biggest durability feat. Taking a massive explosion without a scratch:

Kaine Vs Doc Ock (Spoiler Doc Ock ends up dead!):

Kaine and Peter Parker Vs the Sinister Seven. Kaine initially takes them all on at once until Peter turns up to help:

thats pretty durable scarlet spider is just as strong as superior spiderman and just as strong if not stronger and he mite be just a lil bit smarter but u said superior spiderman has knew tech can u show me his knew tech and abilities.

Now i start with blue beetle now blue beetle is nobody to underestimate. His scarb can scan ur body within seconds and know everything about you ur life ur weaknesses ur strenghts everything so imagine what blue beetle can accomplish in two hours now from looking at ur team hes gonna go after ronan he will see ronan as the biggest threat. Blue beetle can make blaster that will destroy ronan easy and especially since this is two hours prep and its morals off so blue beetle scarb will take over jamey body which isnt good ur team is in real trouble lol the scarb has taken over the world before. it has been mention that he has alien tech that cud even harm the specter but jamey refused bc hes a good guy but its morals off in this fight so the scarb will take over. So let me ask u this if blue Beetle has wepons that can harm the specter imagine what hes gonna do to ronan with two hours prep especially. i have scans showing some of blue beetle feats my pc is just be retarted at the moment but i will have them up later guarentee.

Brainiack 5 will go after Ultron

5th is Brainiack 5 hes is a 12 Ilevel Intelect not only that hes the smartest person dc not argubaly he is. He in the past has made superman and mon el immune to red sun so imagine what hes gonna do with two hours of prep first he make superman immune to kryptonite with that superman wont have a hardtime taking, ur team down. He also is gonna find out ur team weakness and with scarlet spider and blue beetle help that wont be hard to do. Ultron has one sole major weakness: an internal molecular re-arranger that renders the adamantium components of his internal workings more malleable, thus giving him a means to torn apart and thus like the hulk did to him that being said Brainack is gonna figure that out and make a wepon that will destroy the animantium in ultrons body now yes i see ur team has physical ablities as well lets not forget Brainiack is just as strong as ultron hes not weak at all. he has a mind force field to protect his mind from tp users.And if ur team dose tries to do physical damage to him in any kind of way. Brainiack 5 has a force field belt that proteects him from any kind of danger

Goodluck trying to get around that especiallly since he has two hours of prep he will increase the strenght of his force fields . not only that he has the abilities to make clones he has made of clones of justice friends justice league and others so he can make clones of everybody on my team so do u think ur team and fight my team plus 5 copies of each person thats gonna be very dificult for your team to deal with.

Wonderwoman and superman will fight kang. now granted wonderwoman isnt as smart as the ppl on ur team she is an exllecent warrior and with prep shes gonna figure out how to break kang armor especially with superman help yea they can rip him to shreads and there fast enough to do it bc superman will probally come up with a plan to one attacks head on the other sneak attacks kang wont know what hit him.

Next is Superman now since its two hours of prep for the first hour superman is gonna be sundiping for an hour getting fully charged . then for the second hour superman is gonna be preparing for the battle. as i explained before ur kane creating kryptonite will not work bc of brainiack and just incase that dosent work superman is is gonna know how smart ur team is and knows they mite create kryptonite so superman is gonna be wearing the kryptonite suit.

then hes gonna be protected by that so no kryptonite attack ur team tries will work. Now its morals off which mean superman is gonna go all out on ur team and yea i get ur team is member has time freeze but as fast as superman is i think he can speed blits kang before kang can do this. yes kang has prep but hes not gonna be expecting superman to be sundiped.

Proof Superman can fly faster then Light Speed. And did he just destroyed a planet. now granted thats not even half od superman speed im just giving u a taste now imagine what hes gonna do sundiped and morals off or he dosent even have to get near ur team he can shoot lazer vision down from the skies and destroy kang iknow his armor makes him durable but can he handle a full superman heat blast

#6 Edited by blazinasian112 (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@oceanmaster21: Good work....nice feats and strategy. I am still at work, will try to post later tonight when I get home.

This is a good battle!

#7 Posted by blazinasian112 (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath @oceanmaster21

Nice strategy....

I agree Magik is one of my wildcards, and in terms of trying to speedblitz her...

She easily dodged photon moving at the speed of light with her teleportation disks...so with such speed (and BFR allowed) she could technically BFR everyone into Limbo where they would not stand a chance even before they react(especially Superman who's weakness is Magic). Here is another scan of her being creative with her disks...

And with the speed of her teleporting, she can have my team drop in on yours pretty much anywhere...

In terms of Etrigan specifically targeting her, he may have a chance if the fight stayed on earth, but in Limbo where Magik essentially is full power I think she will be too much for him.

Even if Etrigan would be able to land a blow....Magik's defenses are pretty good...

As for Superior Spiderman, while Scarlet Spiderman may be stronger, I think Doc Ock will outprep him with his genius intellect. Here are scans how he prepped for and easily dismantled the Sinister Six

I think Otto with his new found Spidey powers will outprep Scarlet Spiderman.

Onto Blue Beetle....he scarab tech is pretty impressive. Remember the phalanx was the most advanced alien technology and Ultron was able to control them in Annihilation: Conquest. We can argue back and forth who would be superior, but essentially it could be a stalemate.

Now in terms of prep....I like how you used Blue Beetle to scan and Braniac 5 for prep. I will put into play my other powerhouse who I haven't even used yet....Stryfe

His telepathy and telekinesis powers are vicious...

If he is strong enough to take over Charles xavier's mind, I am sure he can quickly scan the minds of your team and know their history/feats/weaknesses...

Not only that, he can brainwash your powerhouses Superman and Wonderwoman before they speedblitz, as we seen have seen them susceptible to mind control (Superman by Poison Ivy in Hush, and WonderWoman in the Tower of Babel story arc)...essentially giving us your powerhouses....Here is Stryfe using he telepathy to get healed...

and if he doesn't want to control Superman...he can do similarly what Manchester Black did when he used TK to squeeze his veins and airway to give Superman a stroke....Stryfe is a beast with TK

Braniac 5 is a wild card...but with time stopping powers of Kang, my team would keep him suspended and remove his belt.

Say for some reason you argue Wonderwoman will resist Stryfe's telepathy....Kang has access to any weapon in anytime and can use that same technological bug implanted in WW in Tower of Babel neutralizing her

When all is said and done I have Magik who can react faster than the speed of light with her teleportation disks and awesome magic, Kang master of time, Stryfe a master telepath, Ultron the technology master...along with support from Superior Spidey, Ronan the Accuser, and Red hulk....I think too much manipulation of time, space, mind, etc.

As my finishing move.....

#8 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

ahhhh yes very good counter attacks from your team this is a good battle.

well as i said before Etrigan will go after magik now i can even say magik is a lil more powerful then etrigan but if she puts him in limbo or of any kind surroundings of hell tht wud be dumb bc hes even more powerful then.Dont forget hes become the ruler of hell many times, he has everything she dose he can teloport has super strenght thts on par with superman. his speed is the same as superman hes even fought martian for good while so hes on par with magik so even if he cant beat her he will def keep her busy for awhile.

Scarlet Spider is physically a brute its hard to defeat him. And ur right superior spiderman tech dose help some what.

but scarlet spider is just as smart.

Hell of a speed showing here. Bullets are fired and Kaine manages to pin then use an enemy as a meat-shield before the bullets hit. That's some wild-a$$ speed:

Catches an arrow despite having his back turned and no spider-sense and a little bullet dodging. Good reaction feat:

Scarlet Spider Vs Salamander:

Scarlet Spider Vs The Assassin's Guild:

Scarlet Spider Vs The Rangers:

Scarlet Spider Vs Venom:

Scarlet Spider Vs Carnage: Round 1:

those were some of his best feats with prep. i think in the end wud cud probally debate for the spidermen all day lol but lets move further shall we.

ok you mention stryfe yes his feats are impressive.But Blue Beetle can counter them.

Blue Beetle A completely inexperienced Jaime with no idea about how to use his powers fights Guy Gardner. His shields block Guy's attacks for a while before he eventually wins and guy gardner was powered up in that fight.

Blue Beetle is Telepathic resistance; a telepath named Probe tries to scan Jaime but the scarab fries her mind.

so stryfe trying to read blue beetle mind or ultron trying to hack him think again, and blue beetle has dealt with people more powerful than both of them.

Moves fast enough to block several energy bursts from hitting their target after they were fired.

Fights some magic tree monsters; his scarab detects their magic energy trail and figures out how to stop them.

now blue beetle has alos beaten power ppl of magic as well and his scarb knows of ways to hurt the specter and dr fate and beings like that so he probally will have a soloution to the magik situation as well. i have more scans of blue beete there for later as the battle goes on lol.

Wonderwoman is a brilliant warrior and shes no dumby either yes she not as smart has ur team but she can handle her self with two hours of prep shes gonna request the powerful guidiance of her parents and zeus will increase her strenght and durability. she sword and lasso of truth will be more then enough for kang and as far as tp and magic she fights ares and circe on a regular bases

and circe is very powerful so i think wonderwoman can alo help out with magik as well.if needed but etrigan shud be able to handle it.

now granted ur plans are good my team can counter them etrigan is more then a match for magik he can keep her busy

Blue Beetle can handle Stryfe rite down to the core.

Brainiack with his inteligents he def will be hard for ultron to beat.

kang is good But with a sundiped superman and wonderwoman both with morals off i think he shud just give up why hes ahead.

Scarlet spider is gonna be a challenge all on his own for superior spiderman

And red she hulk and red hulk or just gonna battle it out to a stalemate.

so with the inteligence of Brainick 5 and ausome technology of Blue Beetle the brain and strenght n power of scarlet spider and with the team work of wonderwoman and superman fighting kang my team has a pretty good defense. not only yhat as i said up top Brainiack 5 makes clones all the time of each person hes done more then five but for this its just 5 so can ur team handle a team of 5 brainiack 5 5 superman sundiped 5 wonderwoman powers increase 5 blue beetle with the scarb taking over 5 red she hulks and 5 etrigans thats a lot for ur team can they handle it. your turn.

#9 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

@blazinasian112: i just realized that i forgot to tag you in the comment that i made thats probally why u havent come back and debated by bad bro. Since were on the subhect i really havent mentioned wonderwoman all that much let me just say wonderwoman is usally guided by Athena and Zeus but with two hours of prep wonderwoman is gonna have her powers and abilities enhanced by Athena her lightning blast will be increased by zeus. so thats gonna make it worse for kang, as u see here wonderwoman is no joke.

Speed feats

Wonder woman lassoes amazo(he has speed of flash) before he can even complete a word..

that was some of wonderwoman speed feats that wasnt even close to what she can do now so she has the hole speed and strenght advanvantage tage. over kang, now here is some of her strenght feats.

1. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2149932-wwstrengthfeat2a.jpg

2. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2149933-wwstrengthfeat2b.jpg

3. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2149934-wwstrengthfeat2c.jpg

4. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2149936-wwstrengthfeat2d.jpg


now here is wonderwoman helping lift the specter

now thats the full body of the specter when he ways that of the universe and even tho she had helpers thats almost impossible to lift and just the fact that wonderwoman had the strenght to help lift the specter is pretty amazing.

now wonderwoman durability is pretty good as well.

Durability Feats

here wonderwoman created sonic beams and soory about thses big letters for some reason the site keeps making my words big and bold even when im just trying to put periods so sorry about that but heres wonderwoman creating sonic booms.

dude shes powerful as they come even when she holds back.

her lasso feats are just as amazing.

now wonderwoman she has incredible reaction speed.

Reaction Speed and shows what her bracelets can do as well

wonderwoman lasso can create fire to protect her from magic of any kind like here it happens here her lasso creates fire to protect wonderwoman from circe magic spells.

here is some other great wonderwoman lasso feats..

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153255-wwap1a.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153256-wwap1b.jpg


. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153258-wwap1d.jpg






. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153275-wwap1j.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153269-wwap1k.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153270-wwap1l.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153271-wwap1m.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153362-wwlassops1b.jpg

. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/105595/2153364-wwlassops1c.jpg

now with all thse i have tons more im just saying as i said befor wonderwoman is no joke n just think with two hours of prep shes gonna have her abilities enchanced by athena and zeus then that mean her abilities will be really powerful then u also superman to deal with and as i have showed up top scarlet spider will deal with superior spiderman.

red she hulk will stalemate red hulk.

Blue beetle with his scarb taking over and all the alien tech he will takeout stryfe telepathy and if i am underestimating stryfe and hes more powerful then i realize then blue beetle tech shud take care of all that.

ultron will be busy with brainiack 5 and i said before ultron is powerful in his own rite and is a genius but like i also said brainiack 5 has made clones of everybody from the JL and some JSA members and he makes lots of him but for this tourney i say 5 each so can ultron handle 5 members fighting of my team each thats 7 groups fighting ultron can he handle that thats a lot. for anyone to have to deal with

#10 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (11100 posts) - - Show Bio

Think i'll side with Oceanmaster21

#11 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio


#12 Posted by dondave (38892 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8768 posts) - - Show Bio

dondave i love ur icon is that martian manhunter

#14 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by Wardemon32 (4548 posts) - - Show Bio


#16 Posted by Wardemon32 (4548 posts) - - Show Bio


#17 Posted by dondave (38892 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by Lvenger (21201 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is over then I'll vote for @blazinasian112: He put up the better arguments IMO for his team winning in this debate

#19 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Blazinasian gets my vote. Oceanmaster's direct copypasta from respect threads rubs me the wrong way. I don't mind finding scans on the internet if you can't make them yourself for whatever reason, but if you're copying the accompanying text directly without even citing the source it's basically plagiarism.

#20 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio


#21 Posted by Juiceboks (10722 posts) - - Show Bio

Blazinasian for me. For reasons similar to Esquires and the use of the Spectre feat which makes absolutely no sense(Infinite weight?).

#22 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with BlazinAsian here for basically the same reason as Esquire.

#23 Posted by beatboks1 (7525 posts) - - Show Bio


#24 Posted by Backflip (2239 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with OceanMaster21, although I appreciate Esquire's points.

#25 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by blazinasian112 (907 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Edited by blazinasian112 (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Man...I was curious who would win...on paper Dondave's team looked like the favorite