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#1 Posted by thespidey307 (177 posts) - - Show Bio

For black widow, we will use the feats in the avengers only for black widow.

For catwoman, we will use the feats she had in the dark knight rises.

morals off

random encounter

no prep

both are bloodlusted

who will win?

#2 Posted by Erik (33002 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow.

#3 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie comes out tomorrow for me, but probably Black Widow, Nolan tends to make his characters more realistic, probably meaning that Catwoman will be less powerful than her comic book counterpart.

#4 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow.

#5 Posted by MarvelKnight93 (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Saw the dark knight rises on Wednesday night, and I thought that catwoman didn't display incredible fighting skills. So I'd have to go with BW on this one, she'd break her in half!!!!!

#6 Posted by janthony1221 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Black widow is a better fighter so she would win. And as a side note she looks a lot better.

#7 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow beat Hawkeye, who's a credible feat. Other than that, neither character had notable h2h victories other than vs fodder. So I have to give it to Widow.

#8 Posted by lordraiden (7172 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

Black Widow beat Hawkeye, who's a credible feat. Other than that, neither character had notable h2h victories other than vs fodder. So I have to give it to Widow.

I was on the fence with this one, but this swayed me.

#9 Posted by thespidey307 (177 posts) - - Show Bio

Got back from the showing last night, and for me, widow takes this. As much as Anne nailed the part, she did not display any great fighting skills. Widow on the other hand...

#10 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye isn't a credible feat.........but BW would probably take this in a good fight anyways. 

#11 Posted by Nefarious (20626 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow wins.

#12 Posted by The Stegman (24627 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye isn't a credible feat.........but BW would probably take this in a good fight anyways. 

This, Hawkeye wasn't really that good h2h in the film, beating him isn't so impressive, but Widow still wins... 
 
 
Also, I'd rather pay to see these two fight..in baby oil, than to see TDKR or Avengers.
#13 Posted by hyperman (393 posts) - - Show Bio

I've just watched TDKR and I think this version of Catwoman really rules! She displayed amazing fighting skills, no-one in the film could even touch her, that makes me thinks she is more handful that her comic counterpart. Morever, she can fight in high heels, Black Widow can't. =D

#14 Posted by CrimsonCake (2677 posts) - - Show Bio

Black widow.

#15 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20308 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow rather easily.

#16 Posted by The_Thunderer (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow.

#17 Edited by rdskns4eva (201 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Window stomp to be honest. To be truthful, WIndow show more skill and had better fight feats than Batman did. Dont know if she can beat Movie Batman, but Window vs Bats would be a better fight.

#18 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

Catwoman was alright but Black Widow takes this with ease

#19 Posted by Picard (1003 posts) - - Show Bio

Frankly, I think that it could go either way - both girls are smart, manipulative, seductive, and they both are incredible fighters -skilled and agile. I didn't like either Avengers or TDKR - both were disappointing but I like both Catwoman and Black Widow, and indeed fight between them would be awsome.

#20 Posted by Shawnbaby (10799 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow in a stomp. She displayed better fighting ability tied to a chair then Catwoman did in the entire movie.

#21 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Black Widow.

#22 Edited by EnhancedHuman (190 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow defeat Hawkeye .... and Catwoman not defeat anyone

#23 Posted by BlueComet (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

Hawkeye isn't a credible feat.........but BW would probably take this in a good fight anyways.

This, Hawkeye wasn't really that good h2h in the film, beating him isn't so impressive, but Widow still wins... Also, I'd rather pay to see these two fight..in baby oil, than to see TDKR or Avengers.

I don't know about that last comment but Black Widow definitly wins this.

#24 Posted by charlieboy (7160 posts) - - Show Bio

widow showed better skills and agility. she stomps this. 

#25 Edited by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

This could go either way. Hawkeye didn't have any feats to make his defeat great.

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#26 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow wins.

Catwoman's greatest combat feat was beating up a couple of mercenaries with Batman's help. Widow is a trained SHIELD spy who is clearly experienced. She has shown far better HTH skills (Chitauri, Russian grunts, Hawkeye) and agility as well.

Also, why has no one mentioned the obvious weapon advantage that Widow has? Standard equipment for Catwoman is what, her goggles? Widow not only dual-wields firearms but also has her electric-shock gauntlets.

#27 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Catwoman seemed more adept at espionage then Widow. Widow wasn't fighting the Chitauri in hand to hand. She fought 3 Russians at most and Hawkeye was nothing great. Widow has no standard equipment, she used guns once in Avengers, if that is standard then Catwoman gets Batmans bike.

Like I said, this could go either way.

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#28 Edited by Pokeysteve (8329 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Catwoman seemed more adept at espionage then Widow. Widow wasn't fighting the Chitauri in hand to hand. She fought 3 Russians at most and Hawkeye was nothing great. Widow has no standard equipment, she used guns once in Avengers, if that is standard then Catwoman gets Batmans bike.

Like I said, this could go either way.

You seem to be down playing Widow quite a bit here. Espionage isn't going to help CW here. Like Shawnbaby said, Widow showed more fighting ability tied to a chair than CW did that entire movie. And standard equipment or not, she's pictured with two sidearms here.

#29 Posted by dondave (37921 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow

#30 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: I only brought up espionage because the person I was replying to said something about Widow being a "trained SHIELD spy". Being tied to a chair was the only plausible feat, she didn't defeat all guys while tied to the chair though, she hung with them for a short while. Catwoman fought along side Batman, and survived in prison at best.

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#31 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@veshark: Catwoman seemed more adept at espionage then Widow. Widow wasn't fighting the Chitauri in hand to hand. She fought 3 Russians at most and Hawkeye was nothing great. Widow has no standard equipment, she used guns once in Avengers, if that is standard then Catwoman gets Batmans bike.

Like I said, this could go either way.

My point about Widow being a trained SHIELD spy was not the 'spy' part, it was the 'trained SHIELD' part. Catwoman is not even in espionage, at most she's a high-end burglar. Espionage implies that one gathers intelligence for an intelligence organization, something that we see Widow do in her very first scene of Avengers, and she basically did the same thing for Tony in Iron Man 2. At exactly what point of TDKR do we see Catwoman being more adept at it?

She used her shock gauntlets to tear apart one Chitauri's neck, and then ripped the staff from the alien before killing him with it. I never stated that she killed Chitauri with her bare hands, but that's a clear display of melee combat right there. Hawkeye has not shown much by way of HTH, but we see him showing some melee skill against the Chitauri. Against the Russians, we see Widow being able to jump on a full grown man and use the strength of her legs to twist him down, knocking him out. Catwoman has done what - fought a few human mercs with Batman's help and twisted one guy's arm and suddenly she's on the same level?

That's a ridiculous argument. We see Widow carrying her dual pistols right from her first appearance onboard the Helicarrier, she clearly has both pistols strapped to her thighs. We later see her using it in the final battle - it's standard equipment. Heck, she even brought it to meet the Hulk. The bike, on the other hand, isn't even Catwoman's.

So no, it most certainly won't go either way. Widow will take a majority. All your argument has done is try to downplay Black Widow's feats while failing to provide any for Catwoman.

#32 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. Infiltrating Bruce Wayne's mansion and obtaining his finger prints. Tracking down Bane when Batman couldn't. This is with less tech then what Widow was rocking.

2. Catwoman has disarming feats too. I didn't see Hawkeye use any hand to hand ability, even still Hawkeye was mind controlled when he fought Widow and could be a slight difference in what clouded his mind to when he was able to fight clearly. Hawkeye even stated that it was like someone was messing with his mind. Against the Russian, that is agility, Catwoman is probably just as agile, shown when the broke a prisoner's wrist via cartwheel.

3. Fair enough, but Widow usually used that as a last resort. She didn't use it to shoot the Hulk, rather to stun him for a short time. She only used it to kill the Chitauri from a distance.

I still see this fight as a coin toss.

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#33 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

1. That's not intelligence - that's burglary. She disguised herself and stole the prints for personal gain, she never did anything to suggest that she was trying to obtain information. There's nothing to prove she 'tracked down Bane', if anything, that's a plot hole. And for the record, what tech did Widow have while she was strapped to a chair and being 'interrogated'? Or when she interrogated Loki, using emotions to get the information from him?

2. Again, you've given little to prove your point. Catwoman's feat of twisting a prisoner when his arms were out, and when he was behind a prison cell, is not exactly an impressive feat in the slightest. In the final battle, we see Hawkeye being able to fight off a Chitauri with his bow, as well as using his arrow as knives - it might not be HTH, but it shows his prowess in close combat. And there's nothing to suggest that his mind was clouded, that's all conjecture. And her feat against the Russian was hardly agility, we see her snaring the guy's face in her legs and pushing him down with enough force to knock him out. That's strength.

3. Read the battle conditions - bloodlusted. Widow references having 'red on her ledger', I highly doubt she'll be shy to using lethal force when she's ticked off.

#34 Edited by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. It's not intelligence because it was personal gain? That's ridiculous, what did she use the prints for? She obtained them for someone else who was connected to Bane iirc. When Batman asked for Catwoman's help to find Bane, she willingly did so. If not, please explain how Bane was tracked down, because Batman sure as hell didn't. Most of Catwoman's feats are off screen, like Widow's feats. We don't know how many Chitauri Widow killed, so we just dismiss that she killed 4 with guns just based on what we see?

2. You act like Widow climbing over her target and using her momentum to drop him is some cool fancy martial arts when nearly anyone trained in that form could do that. She uses momentum as a whole. I just said Hawkeye mentioned something about the way he felt while being mind controlled, suggesting he wasn't fighting 100%.

3. True but Widow is still susceptible to being disarmed and Catwoman didn't particularly care about killing either.

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#35 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

1. Intelligence is gathering information. Slipping into a house and using the prints to exchange them for a clean slate program is not intelligence - it's theft. Your premise that Catwoman is 'more adept at espionage' has no basis of proof, it's just an empty statement. If something is off-screen and not even referred to, how does that even qualify as a feat in the first place? I don't know why you're bringing up some tangential comment about the number of Chitauri Widow has killed - that has nothing to do with espionage. And you haven't explained what supposed 'tech' Widow used for her intelligence ops.

2. Once again - give me anything to suggest that Catwoman has enough combat skills to suggest that this would be a - in your words - toss-up. First its agility, now its momentum? At least you've admitted that Widow has displayed martial arts skills, simply adding to my argument that Widow has displayed a higher fighting capability than Catwoman. As for Hawkeye, that's all guesswork, with nothing concrete backing your statement.

3. I was responding to you referring to Widow using guns as a last resort - which is untrue. And what exactly makes Widow susceptible to being disarmed?

#36 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. "Intelligence is gathering information" - Catwoman gathered information, Bruce Wayne's fingerprints in exchange for a clean slate. In what way is espionage NOT theft? Its not like she physically removed Bruce's fingerprints from the safe or cut his fingerprints off him. If Sam Fisher hacked a computer to get launch codes, that is also stealing something that is not his. You are just dismissing the fact that Catwoman could get to Bane when Batman couldn't because we don't see it, I see that as plot written, the film was already breaking the 3 hour mark. That's all we get from it though, Catwoman could find Bane when Batman couldn't. That is a feat.

2. Athletism allowed Widow to climb the dude, momentum swung him down. He basically stood there waiting for her too. Again Hawkeye stated that his mind was clouded, the scene on its own showed a reddish colour scheme to mirror what he was feeling.

3. Widow hasn't showed the ability to counter a disarm, that's what makes her susceptible.

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#37 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

1. Your claim that Catwoman is 'more adept at espionage’ is baseless, not to mention it has zero bearing on this, seeing as how this is a battle, not a spy vs. spy competition. And you still haven’t given any point to your statement of Widow using any ‘tech’ for her own intelligence work.

This is the definition of intelligence: "The collection of information of military or political value." Widow interrogating the Russians and Loki gave valuable information to help SHIELD. That's espionage, and not theft. To use your example, Sam Fisher hacking into a computer gains valuable information to prevent missiles from being launched. Catwoman opening a safe and taking prints is not 'gathering information', it's simply petty crime. As for the argument about Bane, it's still pure conjecture.

2. Once again, you have still failed to mention any combat feats regarding Catwoman to suggest that she’s even equal to Widow and that this match is - in your words - a 'toss-up'. All you’ve consistently done is try to disregard Widow’s feats. You can debate semantics all you want - whether it's athleticism or momentum, it still shows Widow's prowess in unarmed combat. Her beating Hawkeye is not an accurate showing of Hawkeye's actual combat skill, but it's still better than anything Catwoman has displayed.

3. She 'disarmed' a dumb businessman with a kick of her high-heel and then took the gun. Hardly a trained SHIELD operative.

#38 Edited by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. Like I said, I was addressing you because you brought it up but you insisted on carrying it out so here we are. Fair enough with your definition on espionage, still doesn't negate skills used. Doesn't matter what the purpose was, Catwoman showed superior infiltration, hacking, obtaining information, stealing and tracking skills. Widow only interrogated some dumb Russians and Loki. I guess my argument still holds true for the SKILLS used in espionage. And theft is still stealing something that isn't theirs.

2. You are just dismissing anything and everything the movie tells us. Catwoman has fought in more numbered matches despite Batman's assistance. Widow has been in two fights, three Russians and Hawkeye. Hawkeye is still not credible. He has no hand to hand feats and he was clouded as mentioned by him. We can't tell what happens off screen, we just assume they did it.

We don't know how Catwoman found Bane, all we know is that she helped Batman find him despite the PD failing to find Bane.

We don't know how Catwoman survived in prison, she just survived.

3. Even still, Black Widow has never countered a disarm attempt. You can't argue based on how good the fight choreography was.

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#39 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

1. First off, I did not 'bring it up'. As I said earlier, my point about the phrasing 'trained SHIELD spy' was that she's not some street burglar like Catwoman but an actual operative for the government. You went on to claim that Catwoman was more 'adept at espionage', and have still given nothing to prove it. This has nothing to do with 'skills', there's a definition for the term espionage, and Catwoman has done nothing that fits said definition as per your claim.

I'm going to put a peg in this now because it has no relevance to the actual match, but keep that in mind.

2. The sole feat that Catwoman even has that's credible is her going up against several mercs with Batman's aid. And on that note, those mercs are not even League of Assassin members, and there's nothing even suggesting that these guys are good at melee combat. You want to talk about Hawkeye's close-combat skills not being 'credible', you should consider the mercenaries instead. We only see them with firearms; at least Hawkeye has shown some melee feats against the Chitauri when he wasn't mind-controlled. Everything else you've put up for your argument is just reaching - we even see that Selina is confined to her own cell, so for all we know she 'survived' by remaining in there. I can't 'dismiss' information that isn't there.

3. I'm not arguing on 'fight choreography' - I'm arguing on the grounds that it was a smug businessman who thought he had her on a drop, not a trained SHIELD agent who clearly knows how to use her weapons. And speaking of weapons, what counter does Catwoman have against electric gauntlets?

#40 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. You did bring up she was a trained SHIELD spy so I was referring to the spy part. Clearly misguided but you proceed to debate the topic anyway. I think the main point I wanted to get by was the skills used in espionage such as infiltration, hacking/picking, seduction, stealing which Catwoman has shown whereas Widow has only showed how to interrogate others. My point still holds true.

2. Hawkeye post mind compulsion isn't the same as Hawkeye when mind compelled. He was out of character which means he fought out of character. This doesn't make it credible. Catwoman has fought more opponents then Widow has straight up. They didn't fight anyone with credible showing. They were actually both unimpressive, especially since Widow is actually physically enhanced. Both are just as agile.

3. If using weapons is the only way Widow can win then I'd give the edge, it's still a toss up though since Selena can still disarm foes. She doesn't have an answer for the electrical gauntlets but to what voltage output? The Chitauri resisted it.

This is why its a coin toss. Both fighters haven't done anything impressive. I'd probably give it to Widow because of the weapons but to Selena for H2H.

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#41 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

1. I was using spy as a purely descriptive term and to highlight that she is a government operative, not some civilian. You were the one who went on to say that Catwoman was better at espionage, addressing it as though the point was relevant to the battle. I was also willing to be the first to drop it, because regardless of the merits of your claim, it has no bearing on the fight.

2. He did not seem to lose any level of training or skill when he was mind-controlled, displaying near-superhuman feats of marksmanship with his bow. It was not like he was a mindless zombie, and to say that he fought 'out of character' is simply a poor argument to simplify the matter. At any rate, it's far more credible than what Catwoman has accomplished. She had Batman watching her back when she took down the mercs - and what exactly have these nameless grunts accomplished in unarmed combat? Widow on the other hand was shown to be able to handle multiple Chitauri aliens at both close and long range - yes she was using weapons, but it's not as though she can't use them in this battle.

3. Again, the only showing of Selina 'disarming foes' was a kicking a corrupt businessman in the legs. It was hardly an impressive feat, you'd be hard-pressed to even call it a combat one. She hasn't shown anything to suggest that she'll get the drop on Widow. As for Widow's gauntlets, we see it frying the Chitauri's neck, causing enough hurt for the alien to lose its grip, allowing Widow to snatch the power staff. Keep in mind that these are aliens, so imagine the damage to ordinary humans.

Let’s recap this discussion momentarily:

Black Widow is a trained SHIELD operative who has clearly had experience (her referring to Budapest with Hawkeye), has killed many (red on her ledger), and has possibly survived severe trauma (her mentioning that she knows how it feels to be ‘unmade’). She is armed with two pistols as well as her shock gauntlets, and has shown enough combat prowess to defeat an undisclosed amount of superhuman Chitauri as well as a Hawkeye who clearly wanted to kill her (and who has displayed melee feats when he was not mind-controlled). She has also displayed martial arts skills when she took down the Russian criminals.

Catwoman, on the other hand, is simply a burglar whose sole impressive combat feat is fighting a bunch of nameless mercenaries with the aid of Batman. Aside from receiving the aid of Batman, these mercs have no close-combat feats whatsoever. Her other ‘notable feats’ include twisting the arm of a man (who was behind a cell and was immobile), kicking the legs of a businessman to steal his weapon, and some unproven presumption about ‘surviving in prison’. Not to mention that Catwoman has no weapons while Widow has both guns for long-range and energy gauntlets for melee.

So exactly what part of this picture suggests that this is a toss-up? Widow outclasses her in combat experience, in feats, and in weaponry.

#42 Posted by Pokeysteve (8329 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Do you think Selina could have beaten the mind controlled Hawkeye in the same scenario?

They were actually both unimpressive, especially since Widow is actually physically enhanced.

Why do you think that haha?

#43 Edited by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. Alright leave it at that.

2. The thing is though, Hawkeye didn't have any close quarter combat feats while being mind controlled. He was still skilled in shooting, which says what about close combat? Like I said he had no credible feats. You are just overrating him simply because it is Hawkeye and he actually gave Widow a fight, though Widow only have two instances where she actually fights. I'd hardly call Catwoman's foes "corrupt businessmen", they were hired by Bane. "and what exactly have these nameless grunts accomplished in unarmed combat?" The exact same can be said about the Chitauri, they never got the drop on anyone to make them special either.

3. They are aliens but that instantly makes them more durable than humans? I say Widow can win via weapons, but if its just hand to hand, its a toss up.

@pokeysteve: Well she is in comics I just assumed she was in the movie since she has (with CA's aid) jumped on a Chitauri aircraft, which looked superhuman. She has jumped on guys shoulders to flip them back etc.

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#44 Edited by 14NC3 (1762 posts) - - Show Bio

Black widow, i didn't see cat woman do very much except beat up a few thugs and knock over a crippled batman. Black widow fought and beat highly trained guards (iron man 2), a mind controlled hawkeye, alien warriors (avengers) etc. Though i did think catoman was sexier :D.

#45 Posted by Pokeysteve (8329 posts) - - Show Bio

@pokeysteve: Well she is in comics I just assumed she was in the movie since she has (with CA's aid) jumped on a Chitauri aircraft, which looked superhuman. She has jumped on guys shoulders to flip them back etc.

In the comics I think she's in her 70's. Don't quote me on that. The movies never mentioned anything about her being enhanced. She's just a bad ass :D

#46 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. Alright leave it at that.

2. The thing is though, Hawkeye didn't have any close quarter combat feats while being mind controlled. He was still skilled in shooting, which says what about close combat? Like I said he had no credible feats. You are just overrating him simply because it is Hawkeye and he actually gave Widow a fight, though Widow only have two instances where she actually fights. I'd hardly call Catwoman's foes "corrupt businessmen", they were hired by Bane. "and what exactly have these nameless grunts accomplished in unarmed combat?" The exact same can be said about the Chitauri, they never got the drop on anyone to make them special either.

3. They are aliens but that instantly makes them more durable than humans? I say Widow can win via weapons, but if its just hand to hand, its a toss up.

@pokeysteve: Well she is in comics I just assumed she was in the movie since she has (with CA's aid) jumped on a Chitauri aircraft, which looked superhuman. She has jumped on guys shoulders to flip them back etc.

2. Your distinction about Hawkeye having close-combat feats when he was mind-controlled and when he wasn't is irrelevant. My point was that Hawkeye lost no amount of skill or training when he displayed his shooting, so why would he specifically lose just his close-combat skills? It's ridiculous to even suggest that - and his fight with Widow is a clear showing that he hasn't. I am not overrating him - your argument simply tries to discount him based on your lack of evidence.

As for the 'corrupt businessmen' comment, I was referring to the one man that Catwoman disarmed. And yet, the Chitauri still have more impressive showings than the nameless mercs from Bane - being hired by Bane doesn't automatically necessitate 'impressive'. As for the Chitauri - we see them scaling the sides of buildings and dropping down from that height, implying a greater level of durability. You'll also note that only the heroes with powers are able to hurt them with their bare hands, Hawkeye had to use his arrows and Widow relied on her guns, gauntlets, and stole one of their power staffs. Yeah, they were nameless grunts, but still better than anything the mercs displayed.

3. Good, so you agree that Catwoman cannot disarm Widow. See my above statement for the aliens.

More to the point, what does it even matter if it's a 'toss-up' if they fought HTH? Is this a weaponless match? Widow clearly has her outgunned, and you basically just agreed with my argument. Also, Widow is not physically-enhanced. Non-powered heroes do feats that 'look superhuman' all the time, that's a weak argument to conclude that she is.

#47 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow could beat Nolans Batman, she humiliates Catwoman.

#48 Posted by MonsterStomp (18186 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

1. My lack of evidence? It's made clear in the film that Hawkeye was off his game when fighting Widow. He had no hand to hand feats prior to getting his mind back. You're basing your evidence on a hunch, just because his accuracy was unaffected means that his hand to hand skills were the same? How could you possibly conclude that when he didn't have credible hand to hand feats prior to getting his mind back? You can't. You can conclude that his accuracy was unaffected because he curved a shot on the carrier, comparable to shooting at Loki from long range, or shooting without looking. Hawkeye was not a credible combatant.

2. Electricity and piercing attacks work differently then blunt force attacks. Thor can tank a hit from Hulk but was easily wounded when Loki stabbed him.

Bane and his mercs were able to subdue Gotham city for 5 months and fought against Gotham PD. I doubt Bane hired some worthless criminals and led them by himself. Heck, the first scene shows a team sent in to retrieve Bane from an aircraft by killing everyone on board, lobbing the thing in half and safely propelling Bane and the captive into the hijacking plane. That isn't rookie work, everyone knew what they were doing and a merc was even willing to sacrifice his life. These are trained professionals. Are they trained killers? Debatable, but they sure as hell aren't dumbed grunts who can't tell the difference from a knife and a sword. There was also a scene where two mercs captured Gordon, Bane pretty much killed them for being incompetent.

3. The whole purpose of my debate is to prove that this isn't lop-sided. Catwoman does have more disarming feats, and can disarm Widow if its close range. The voltage that can put a Chitauri down doesn't straight away make human levellers more susceptible to it. If this was IM2 Widow I'd happily agree in a stomp, but this is far from it. Its still a toss up, but I would consider BW with a slight majority due to weapons.

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#49 Posted by Alest (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhm..... After reading previous posts... Is it correct to do not count Catwoman fight with thugs due their lack of feats with fighting skills before fight? Seems is it true as for Hawkeye, so is it true for them too. So... Catwoman has no fighting feats at all?</sarcasm>

#50 Posted by The Stegman (24627 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow, solely due to more feats:

-Taking down those guards in Iron Man 2 with apparent ease

-Taking down those Russians with ease

-Beating a mind controlled Hawkeye, granted he didn't have THAT many h2h feats of his own

-Holding off some Chitaruri

When compared to Selina's feats:

-Taking down a few thugs

-Taking down a few more thugs

-disarming Dagget

Though I will admit, Selina might be lighter on her feet, taking down that prisoner with a simple cartwheel was pretty cool.