#1 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Racer has come for Dark Phoenix. Will she die?

#2 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont even know...he can kill jean but phoenix has no soul...

#3 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR:could racer kill jean while she is dark phoenix?

#4 Posted by Dextersinister (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Racer is a confirmed aspect of death and that makes him really damn powerful in the DC universe. The white phoenix could possibly be his equal but the Dark Phoenix will be killed.

Online
#5 Posted by torzone (401 posts) - - Show Bio

DP wins.

#6 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7082 posts) - - Show Bio

You can not kill the Phoenix Force & in the straight fight I believe this is, Dark Phoenix stomps.

#7 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2817 posts) - - Show Bio

@torzone said:

DP wins.

#8 Edited by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mr Creesy said:

@IZZR:could racer kill jean while she is dark phoenix?

Yes he certainly can, there is no restriction on the Black Racer, had even PC Darkseid shook as hell.
#9 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

For those saying Phoenix wins, how do you defeat DEATH ITSELF?!

#10 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he is not Death Itself. Death in the DCU is a teenage Girl.

Still he is more then powerful enough to kill Dark Phoenix.

#11 Posted by Dextersinister (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix: Actually they are both death, he is when death is viewed as something inevitable or unstoppable.

Online
#12 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@Skaddix: Actually they are both death, he is when death is viewed as something inevitable or unstoppable.

I thought she is the True Death. As in if you rank all the death Gods then she is at the top of the pyramid while Black Racer is under her by one level.

#13 Posted by Dextersinister (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix: As of know they are suppose to be about the same but Gaiman doesn't like that idea so expect a retcon when he does Sandman the beginning.

Online
#14 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@Skaddix: As of know they are suppose to be about the same but Gaiman doesn't like that idea so expect a retcon when he does Sandman the beginning.

Interesting. Ah well. Hope the racer returns with the other new gods.

#15 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Phoenix.

#16 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix: The Racer isn't a New god though.

#17 Posted by Outside_85 (8010 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: He is the New Gods version of Death however.

Anyways since Death is nothing but a transition phase between life and the hereafter, and because of the wording of the OP it means DP (as in Jean) is dying and the Black Racer has come to take her away.

#18 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3808 posts) - - Show Bio

Death wins. You can't beat Death, though you can cheat it or escape it

#19 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

Racer takes this, there is no escaping him...then again...

#20 Edited by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: the question is, is the black racer strong enough to kill jean while she is empowered as dark phoenix?

#21 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines said:

Racer takes this, there is no escaping him...then again...

He would catch the Flash eventually. Advantage of being Immortal.

#22 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix said:

@Jayfournines said:

Racer takes this, there is no escaping him...then again...

He would catch the Flash eventually. Advantage of being Immortal.

In Final Crisis it's established that The Black Racer can only move at the speed of light, though. So Barry can outrun him.

#23 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Skaddix said:

@Jayfournines said:

Racer takes this, there is no escaping him...then again...

He would catch the Flash eventually. Advantage of being Immortal.

In Final Crisis it's established that The Black Racer can only move at the speed of light, though. So Barry can outrun him.

That is a dumb retcon. Most of the DCU at that point was faster then light. Now in current DCU, lightspeed would be impressive.

#24 Posted by drgnx (3547 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix said:

@Dextersinister said:

@Skaddix: As of know they are suppose to be about the same but Gaiman doesn't like that idea so expect a retcon when he does Sandman the beginning.

Interesting. Ah well. Hope the racer returns with the other new gods.

I never liked that about Gaiman ... I sounded a lot like "my creation should be the best one" type of thing. No issues with him beside that, he is a shark who won't let others walk over him.

#25 Edited by Dextersinister (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@Skaddix said:

@Jayfournines said:

Racer takes this, there is no escaping him...then again...

He would catch the Flash eventually. Advantage of being Immortal.

In Final Crisis it's established that The Black Racer can only move at the speed of light, though. So Barry can outrun him.

He was actually catching up but they brought him to a dying Darkseid where he killed his possessed body in their place.

What a second how did that Radion bullet work?

Online
#26 Posted by mR_Bentastic22 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

isnt the phoenix the universes avatar that controls resurrection? if anything its a stalemate.. black racer can kill phoenix.. but phoenix will just resurrect.. this sir is the comic book equivalent to which came first the chicken or the egg.. and i am insulted.. *throws down the gauntlet* INSULTED!!!

#27 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

IIRC Death could not claim Rachel as Phoenix because the Phoenix is beyond Death and Rachel was it's chosen vessel. Why would a different incarnation of the same concept be able to take her?

#28 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Death wins. You can't beat Death, though you can cheat it or escape it

This.

#29 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpeedForceSpider said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

Death wins. You can't beat Death, though you can cheat it or escape it

This.

...is wrong, Phoenix is not bound by Death at all!!

#30 Posted by Outside_85 (8010 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr Creesy: Well the Black Racer doesnt appear anywhere unless they already have one foot in the grave, so to me this isn't so much a battle as it is a question if DP has a part of it that the Black Racer can make off with.

#31 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Dark Phoenix.

#32 Edited by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@Mr Creesy: Well the Black Racer doesnt appear anywhere unless they already have one foot in the grave, so to me this isn't so much a battle as it is a question if DP has a part of it that the Black Racer can make off with.

My friend, we all have one foot in the grave. Not to be morbid, but every second we live, we are dying

#33 Posted by Outside_85 (8010 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr Creesy said:

@Outside_85 said:

@Mr Creesy: Well the Black Racer doesnt appear anywhere unless they already have one foot in the grave, so to me this isn't so much a battle as it is a question if DP has a part of it that the Black Racer can make off with.

My friend, we all have a one in the grave. Not to be morbid, but every second we live, we are dying

You know what I mean.

#34 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: I know what you mean. I'm just messing with you.

#35 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

Even assuming the Black Racer can't claim the Phoenix, how does the Phoenix defeat him?

It's stalemate at best.

#36 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

Even assuming the Black Racer can't claim the Phoenix, how does the Phoenix defeat him?

It's stalemate at best.

The Phoenix is stated to be beyond Death, that there suggest it is more powerful than Death in all it's forms. When beings have been killed by the Phoenix they do not go to Death, the Phoenix has to build an afterlife for them. How can the Phoenix defeat him? By making his existence moot, she can resurrect and keep alive everything, no more death, no more Black Racer or any other avatar of Death. :)

#37 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

Why would the Racer go after the Phoenix???

#38 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis: according to the OP it's her time to go

#39 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: Fair enough. I thought the Phoenix Force was Galactus level.

If it's beyond Death, it's beyond the Racer.

#40 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr Creesy said:

@DocFatalis: according to the OP it's her time to go

Yeah, but she's not a New God at all.

#41 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis: For the sake of argument, he decided to come for her, now what?

#42 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis: He collected L'il Lobo who is not a New god.

#43 Posted by Mr Creesy (844 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis said:

@Mr Creesy said:

@DocFatalis: according to the OP it's her time to go

Yeah, but she's not a New God at all.

He also came for the Flash.

#44 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: I didn't know about that.

@Mr Creesy: Yep, that's an other part of Final Crisis I never understood: I always thought that this guy was specialized in New Gods. Really weird to me.

#45 Posted by TifaLockhart (13976 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis: I know it's an alternate future, but in JLA's Rock of Ages storyarc, the Black Racer collects various Leaguers and talks to Batman before he gets Omega Beam'd.