Black Panther vs Wonder Woman

@black_arrow: If you read above someone stated it took Batman two years to find and acquire it though. Panther doesn't have two years. It's not viable for him.

Well Batman used it so now it's in the Batcave, all he has to do is to get the location of the Batcave and infiltrate it, so the two years really don't matter. (The complicated thing is how he will get to know about the lasso, when there are other better options).

That was Typhoid Mary.

Actually fighting Zod/Faora was a strength feat as at one point she was grappling with Faora evenly, and at another she forced Faora to turn her head to avoid heat vision, both of these require similar or equivalent strength to pull off.

@klaus: Okayy strength feats for Faora...Then we can determine, it.

@godxdarkxopal: Faora was strong enough to beat Superman to a bloody pulp. Granted he wasn't fully paying attention to fighting back, but it shows that she was able to override his durability.

@klaus: I'm asking for Faora Strength feats.Not fighting.

Superman solos

@black_arrow: That's a big jump in logic considering a few things:

1. It was part if the 'Justice Buster' which Superman destroyed. So we don't know where it is.

2. Joker raided the Batcave, so again it could be lost due to him.

3. It's only been shown in Endgame, which considering the scope of could very well not be real, so there's that.

Then there's the big logical assumption T'Challa would deduce Bruce is Batman, find the Batcave, and know it's there. Even for comics that's a lot to do in three months.

I'm going to remember this thread next time New 52 Wonder Woman goes up against Thor, Hulk, or Captain Marvel (Binary or not) in a thread, she should get destroyed by the logic I'm seeing go around.

You clearly don't understand that to fight someone with that level of strength and to hurt them, you have to have physical strength and striking ability close to their level.

Speed is probably and being BFR is probably the biggest handicaps for BP. However, he would need a way to distract her long enough to poison her. That is probably his best bet to put her down.

What is stopping Wonder Woman from forcing his own army to attack him?

People are just picking Black Panther with no clear reason.

"3 months is more than enough" really? Back that up with facts.

@laflux: When did I say he couldn't beat him? Don't twist my words around. She blitzed him in space before he could react in SM/WW. She can do the same to BP with less effort. First Born stomped Orion right before she blitzed him into space.

@klaus: Bro,When I was in Jr High I fought two females who were taller than me and weight more than me.They both were at least 5'10 while I was 5'4.They got smashed by me.I'm sure they had the strength advantage against me but were soloed.

If you cant provide her strength feats just say she don't have them.Faora is not on Namor level.

He would have to go into the battle with his cloaking device up already.

@godxdarkxopal: Faora would snap Namor's neck don't be ridiculous.

@somayareece: Really.??I never said she couldn't.Just that she don't have the strength feats to prove she's stronger than Namor.I ask for her strength feats and I get arguments. They must don't exist.

@somayareece: GodXDarkxOpal has a point. If New 52 Wonder Woman is stronger than Namor, then someone needs to justify the claim with evidence using quantifiable feats.

@static_shock: @godxdarkxopal: She recently overpowered and pushed back Aquaman,Shazam,Flash,Amazo, and a few others all at the same time in Justice League #39 (something that Namor could only dream of doing)

She broke through Hal's constructs that were strong enough to tame her, she lifted a spaceship that was the size of Themyscira, She closed a rift that Mongul struggled to close even though he had help from a kryptonian.

@somayareece: You keep using arguments.I want feats of her lifting something.Not her fighting teammates who's not in their right state of mind.And every character you named don't have any strength feats.Flash,??Lol.Shazam.?Hasn't done nothing besides magic.Amazo,zero lifting feats of his own.Aquaman is impressive but still not WW.And Hal is a GL so no go.

His constructs are easily breakable. And Mongul is a jobber.He's not his father.

interesting debate lol. most of the time people want striking feats not lifting feats. and for some reason right now its the opposite. they want lifting feats instead of striking or combat feats...weird.

LOL... this is so stupid... i didn't even know people would debate over such dumb things. Oh well..

@sodamyat: Exactly. He is just trying to find a way to make it seem like Wonder Woman isn't stronger just because she's not lifting a heavy object on every panel.

@atheistknowledge: Good point. I'm not even going to feed into this anymore.

@sodamyat: Just want to see how strong see is.I read all of her issues up until 32.Just curious..Care to give an estimate! L???

lifting wise? id say in the 100,000 ton range

@sodamyat: Hmmmm. I Figured it wasn't close to Supes..At least gave a number besides naming everyone she fought.

huh?

@sodamyat: Sorry.Damn tablet.

I meant at least you gave a number instead of naming everyone she fought.My bad...

oh ok.

Even in a shared universe, I dont think BP can pull off what Batman appeared to fail to do with 5 years. Unless, as mentioned, we dip into the subject of 'pulling previously unknown counters and weakness' out of our sleeves' department.

@somayareece said:

Breaking through GL constructs is a bad example of strength, but I can deal with the Themysciran-sized spaceship. What issue did this feat take place?

As for closing a rift in space, in what issue did this happen? Where there any circumstances behind it? It seems like one of those "questionable" strength feats. Other than that, understand that I was never saying Namor is stronger than Wonder Woman. I just wanted some clarification because I don't read the New 52, and haven't read it in two years.

That's probably because striking feats don't completely quantify overall strength. For example, Kalilbak was only half as strong as Superman at one point. Yet, he was able to physically hold his own against Superman, regardless of the difference in strength level.

Another example. Captain Atom was able to stagger Mr. Majestic with punches and knock him through the street. Majestic still stronger than him by miles (and it was even implied in the book that Majestic was holding back in the first encounter, and later, easily overpowered him in another in the same series). The same thing happened when during a confrontation between Eradicator and Majestic also. Back on Captain Atom, though. It was confirmed he could move mountains in Justice League Europe. Majestic casually moves planets.

Here's another. Dwayne McDuffie created Holocaust to be a Class-100-strength character, and on one occasion, he was able hold his own against Icon (who McDuffie created to be almost as strong as Superman). However, McDuffie stated that while Holocaust is strong, he's nowhere near Icon's level of strength. He stated this in his forum years ago.

I remember the days when Ares, like back in the 60s/70s, physically held his own against Thor. Thor was, and still is, well in excess of Class 100. Ares was only Class 70 at the time.

The New 52 version of Mongul is the ONLY Mongul in that continuity. There's has been no mention of a Mongul, Jr. She's not even talking about Post-Crisis Mongul.

@static_shock: I'm aware and my point still stands.Jr always struggled with Superman level characters while Sr stomp Superman on more than one occasion.Just saying the son is a push over.I don't see him coming close to what Sr did when he was around.

Actually, no. Your point is invalid, as it is based on the Post-Crisis version of Mongul and Mongul, Jr. It doesn't apply to New 52 Mongul (who is clearly modeled off of Post-Crisis Mongul, Sr; roughly the same design). Different continuity, different version. You might as well be saying that New 52 Superman is the same as Post-Crisis Superman, when they are completely different and the New 52 version is clearly stronger. So, while you might be aware, you sure don't act like it.

@dirtyhippy: Tower of Babel isn't canon and also she doesn't demonstrate taht weakness...then less speculation and based on the new version,because it is different from the old

So? The lasso didn't killed her......

@static_shock: No I haven't.N52 Superman is not PC Superman nor have I said it.And Sr if I'm not mistaken was not in Post Crisis. No matter if its Post Crisis or New Mongul Jr he's not on Sr level.Period.You might want to argue details,I however don't.

You're mistaken. Mongul, Sr. was Post-Crisis. He destroyed Coast City and rebuilt it as Engine City, where Hal Jordan defeated him. He also went after Kyle Rayner after that, seeking revenge, but was defeated by Kyle and Superman. He was also killed by Neron in Underworld Unleashed, too. All Post-Crisis events.

Against, New 52 Mongul ISN'T Mongul, Jr. He's Mongul, Sr, but a different version of the character. Your point is invalid, as Somaya brought up New 52 Mongul, making Post-Crisis Mongul Jr or Sr irrelevant. You were in error. It happens to the best of us.

@static_shock: So,You're saying N52 Mongul is Sr and he's in the GL mythos now.??

Not trying to be a d!ck but can you show me proof that N52 Mongul is Sr.I was always under the impression that Jr was A GL enemy and Sr was a Superman enemy.

Reread my post. Your response is a failed attempt at semantics. New 52 Mongul is based on Mongul, Sr. I brought up GL stuff because you said Mongul, Sr. wasn't Post-Crisis, when he was.

@static_shock: I'm not go too.I ask a question.And no,I know what the f*ck I said.

Dunno about the 'spaceship', but I can say the rift feat was part of Doomed. While I dont know the full story; the idea was that Doomsday (possibly with some interference from Brainiac) had managed to break out of the Phantom Zone. Diana, Steel and Batman went into the Phantom Zone to find out how Doomday got out and find Mongul (stuck since the Batman/Superman sent him and Warworld there) and Non wrestling with the rift Doomsday left because they couldn't use it to escape and it was threatening to tear the place apart. Then Diana showed up and closed it for them, gets and explanation and has to race them out of the Zone before the pair could escape.

She would later return to force Mongul to use Warworld on Brainiac.

What proof do you need? LOL. Look closely at both pictures. The New 52 version was clearly based on the Post-Crisis version.

Gallery

In Post-Crisis events, both Monguls were Superman and Green Lantern villains. Superman has fought both Monguls numerous times. Remember when Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman fought Mongul Jr. at the beginning of Infinite Crisis? Or, the time Superman fought Mongul Jr. in Superman/Batman: Public Enemies? Or the time he fought him using his superhuman speed to dodge his attacks?

Gallery

Remember when Hal Jordan impaled Mongul Jr. with giant arrow constructs, defeating him?

Hal Jordan defeated Mongul, Sr. in Engine City. Post-Crisis. He was also defeated by Superman and Kyle Rayner later on. Post-Crisis. Here's a scan for the latter.

@outside_85: Well, then. I guess Wonder Woman's got the juice now.

@static_shock: So you're saying Superman has indeed defeated Mongul Sr on his own with no help.??That's what I'm basically asking.

If I'm too aggressive its cuz I been drinking Black Crown all night..So I will be rude.

No, that's what you're asking now. You were asking something completely different earlier. But, no. That's not what I'm saying. I'm proving that Mongul, Sr. was in Post-Crisis continuity, and that he and his son were both Superman and Green Lantern villains. Either way, your earlier point about about both Monguls, Post-Crisis, isn't relevant to New 52 Mongul.

And what, I'm just supposed to take your word for it that this actually happened? Fine you want a strength feat for Wonder Woman. What about in Justice League #39 when WW pushed against Aquaman, Shazam, Subject zero, Flash etc, and over powered them after the virus allowed their powers to return? While Flash and Shazam may not have strength feats, Aquaman has lifted ships before, and Subject Zero copied all of Supermans powers.

@klaus: Okayy.. How much the ships weight.??

Great minds think alike? (Except with regards Wolverine & Spider-Man that is ... Lol)

She got blindsided by a Phantom Doomsday who Clark was hit by like twice (Clark nearly died). Doomsday having low durability doesn't mean he didn't hit hard enough to break Superman's bones just as easily as Wonder Woman's...

H'El is simply above powerhouse tier sans lacking mental resistance feats. Not sure why he was brought up at all.

With 3 months of prep Panther in a stomp. In a random encounter wonder woman would obliterate him.