#1 Posted by _slim_ (13599 posts) - - Show Bio

- Black Panther

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                     vs.
 
- Shang-Chi
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
- Location:
- Standard dojo
- Midday.
- Start 15 ft apart.
 
- Rules:
- Morals apply.
- Random encounter.
- Standard elimination rules.
- No equipment.
- Shang-Chi doesn't have his spider powers.
- Strictly H2H.
#2 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

Panther

#3 Posted by DeadCosmos (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi

#4 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther.He has far better feats.

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#5 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm.... 
 
To me, since Black Panther is currently depowered, it's any man's fight. 50/50.

#6 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
Hmmm....  To me, since Black Panther is currently depowered, it's any man's fight. 50/50.
Black Panther beating Shang Chi shouldn't rest on his physical ability.
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#7 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
Black Panther beating Shang Chi shouldn't rest on his physical ability.
Doesn't matter. His physical ability before he was depowered was always an advantage for him, combat-wise. 
#8 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa.
#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@Vance Astro said:
Black Panther beating Shang Chi shouldn't rest on his physical ability.
Doesn't matter. His physical ability before he was depowered was always an advantage for him, combat-wise. 
True, but that doesn't mean that Black Panther isn't just as likely to win.
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#10 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

True, but that doesn't mean that Black Panther isn't just as likely to win.

If not as strong, as fast, or as durable as he was before, it makes it easier for Shang Chi, who, at one point, didn't share the same physical abilities that T'Challa once had.
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
@Vance Astro said:
True, but that doesn't mean that Black Panther isn't just as likely to win.
If not as strong, as fast, or as durable as he was before, it makes it easier for Shang Chi, who, at one point, didn't share the same physical abilities than T'Challa once had.
I agree it makes it easier but his odds of winning weren't very good to begin with.It's not like T'Challa is sub-human.
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#12 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
I agree it makes it easier but his odds of winning weren't very good to begin with.It's not like T'Challa is sub-human.
Being sub-human isn't the issue. The fact that he's not enhanced-human anymore significantly lowers his chances of winning against someone who's not enhanced and just as skilled, if not close to being as skilled.  
 
Physical ability is everything in a fight. 
#13 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
 Physical ability is everything in a fight. 
Since when? 

@Static Shock said:
enhanced and just as skilled, if not close to being as skilled.   
He doesn't have any feats that suggest he's that close, Unless you know something I don't.
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#14 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

Since BP is depowered as static stated I must give Shang Chi the slight edge 6/10 Because he has more experience Fighting as a non-enhanced human than BP does.

#15 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

Since BP is depowered as static stated I must give Shang Chi the slight edge 6/10 Because he has more experience Fighting as a non-enhanced human than BP does.

Since when has more experienced ever equated to more skilled?
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#16 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

as far as i know i got to go with black panther i am  really enjoy man without fear book. @ Static Shock how powerful would he be if he was with how powers again? could he take on taskmaster?

#17 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
Since when? 
Since forever. LOL. 
 
If Steve Rogers was depowered, I'd say the same thing for him.  
 
@Vance Astro said:
He doesn't have any feats that suggest he's that close, Unless you know something I don't.
Why wouldn't he be close? Black Panther isn't that THAT much better than Shang Chi.  
 
@weaponmaster said:

Since BP is depowered as static stated I must give Shang Chi the slight edge 6/10 Because he has more experience Fighting as a non-enhanced human than BP does.

Well, there was the time T'Challa defeated S'yan. Thing is, T'Challa made it look easy and he wasn't enhanced like S'yan was. So, I don't know if I could give Shang Chi a slight edge. 
#18 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Since BP is depowered as static stated I must give Shang Chi the slight edge 6/10 Because he has more experience Fighting as a non-enhanced human than BP does.

Since when has more experienced ever equated to more skilled?

A pro fighter with 40 fights will be a better fighter than an equally skilled fighter with no actual fights. Experience equates to a better chance of winning. I never stated that it equated to more skills, only actual experience using said skills in actual fights, which is an advantage.

#19 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
Since forever. LOL. 
 
If Steve Rogers was depowered, I'd say the same thing for him.  
Steve doesn't lose his skill because he's physically downgraded. 
 
@Static Shock said:
Why wouldn't he be close? Black Panther isn't that THAT much better than Shang Chi.  
Shang Chi doesn't have the feats.
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#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

A pro fighter with 40 fights will be a better fighter than an equally skilled fighter with no actual fights. Experience equates to a better chance of winning. I never stated that it equated to more skills, only actual experience using said skills in actual fights, which is an advantage.

That's in real life.I'm talking about in comics.More experience doesn't matter in comics.It never has.
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#21 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mega_spidey01 said:
@ Static Shock how powerful would he be if he was with how powers again? could he take on taskmaster?
He'd be on the same level as Captain America, who admitted that T'Challa was his physical equal.  
 
As far as taking on Taskmaster.... 
 
It only took one kick. LOL. 
#22 Edited by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

A pro fighter with 40 fights will be a better fighter than an equally skilled fighter with no actual fights. Experience equates to a better chance of winning. I never stated that it equated to more skills, only actual experience using said skills in actual fights, which is an advantage.

That's in real life.I'm talking about in comics.More experience doesn't matter in comics.It never has.

But does it matter in these vs battles? I would argue it does indeed play a part in determining the outcome of a fight.

#23 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said: 
Steve doesn't lose his skill because he's physically downgraded. 
Physical ability is the issue here, not skills. Physical ability is just as important as skills are. 
 
@Vance Astro said: 
Shang Chi doesn't have the feats.
I'm pretty sure he's got them. What sets him apart from Black Panther is the fact that he hasn't fought or been sized up with as many fighters. 
#24 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Vance Astro said:
Steve doesn't lose his skill because he's physically downgraded.
Physical ability is the issue here, not skills. Physical ability is just as important as skills are.

@Vance Astro said:
Shang Chi doesn't have the feats.
I'm pretty sure he's got them. What sets him apart from Black Panther is the fact that he hasn't fought or been sized up with as many fighters.

Not when Shang Chi isn't physically out of Black Panther's league.How is physical ability just as important when Shang Chi doesn't have an advantage there? As far as skill what has Shang Chi really done to make this 50/50 without Black Panther being physically above him?

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#25 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck said:

But does it matter in these vs battles?

No.

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#26 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

Not when Shang Chi isn't physically out of Black Panther's league.

I'm aware of that. I was saying that it matters if T'Challa had his powers. Things are even now with T'Challa being depowered. 
 
@Vance Astro said:

As far as skill what has Shang Chi really done to make this 50/50 without Black Panther being physically above him?

I don't recall T'Challa doing anything that makes him that much better than Shang Chi, currently, with no powers.
#27 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa got this.

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

I don't recall T'Challa doing anything that makes him that much better than Shang Chi, currently, with no powers.

If you are only using his recent feats than yes it does look close but his skill feats overall make the gap.Just because he was more physically dominant before doesn't mean his skill feats are out the window.Skill is what it is.

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#29 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Even when he was physically dominant, still...
#30 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@weaponmaster said:

Since BP is depowered as static stated I must give Shang Chi the slight edge 6/10 Because he has more experience Fighting as a non-enhanced human than BP does.

Well, there was the time T'Challa defeated S'yan. Thing is, T'Challa made it look easy and he wasn't enhanced like S'yan was. So, I don't know if I could give Shang Chi a slight edge.

i only give Shang Chi a slight edge logically as he has been figthing without any enhancements for longer than BP. but youre right, they both have feats besting those who are enhanced.

#31 Edited by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

A pro fighter with 40 fights will be a better fighter than an equally skilled fighter with no actual fights. Experience equates to a better chance of winning. I never stated that it equated to more skills, only actual experience using said skills in actual fights, which is an advantage.

That's in real life.I'm talking about in comics.More experience doesn't matter in comics.It never has.

Since they havent fought It becomes necessary to apply real life parameters to battles oftent times. Experience has, however, played a part in comics at times. Such as when Captain America fought T'chaka. So you are mistaken when you state that experience has never mattered in comic books.

#32 Edited by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@weaponmaster said:

i only give Shang Chi a slight edge logically as he has been figthing without any enhancements for longer than BP. but youre right, they both have feats besting those who are enhanced.

Shang Chi DOES have enhancements though.You don't think he can catch class 100's punch,destroy doombots with his barehands,fight dragons,karate chop radio towers causing them to fall with just his regular human attributes do you?

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#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@weaponmaster said:

Experience has, however, played a part in comics at times. Such as when Captain America fought T'challa.

In what way?

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#34 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

i only give Shang Chi a slight edge logically as he has been figthing without any enhancements for longer than BP. but youre right, they both have feats besting those who are enhanced.

Shang Chi DOES have enhancements though.You don't think he can catch class 100's punch,destroy doombots with his barehands,fight dragons,karate chop radio towers causing them to fall with just his regular human attributes do you?

No, Shang Chi does not have any enhancements whatsoever. he does all of this with kung fu only. It happens often in comic books.

#35 Edited by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Experience has, however, played a part in comics at times. Such as when Captain America fought T'chaka.

In what way?

he lost.

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@weaponmaster said:

he does all of this with kung fu only.

Right, the same Iron Fist does everything with Ku'n Lun only.Raising physical stats via chi is an enhancement.

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#37 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio

@weaponmaster said:

he lost.

What makes you think experience is why?

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#38 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

he lost.

What makes you think experience is why?

Meant T'chaka not T'challa. If I remember correctly T'chaka stated that this was the case.

#39 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

he does all of this with kung fu only.

Right, the same Iron Fist does everything with Ku'n Lun only.Raising physical stats via chi is an enhancement.

Iron fist chi and Shang Chi kung fu are two entirely different things. Shang Chis strikes are via training.

#40 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

Iron fist chi and Shang Chi kung fu are two entirely different things. Shang Chis strikes are via training.

Right, but i'm not talking about Shang Chi's Kung Fu i'm talking about his use of chi which he learned training in Kung Fu.Iron Fist's strikes are technically via training too.
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#41 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Iron fist chi and Shang Chi kung fu are two entirely different things. Shang Chis strikes are via training.

Right, but i'm not talking about Shang Chi's Kung Fu i'm talking about his use of chi which he learned training in Kung Fu.Iron Fist's strikes are technically via training too.

No..Iron fists chi strikes are from the energies of Shou-Lao the Undying which he got from pressing his chest to a flaming brazier. basically it's dragon energy. Shang chi utilizes traditional kung fu strikes, which do not enhance you physically beyond training and hardening of the hands, feet, body, via chi-kung training.

#42 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Iron fist chi and Shang Chi kung fu are two entirely different things. Shang Chis strikes are via training.

Right, but i'm not talking about Shang Chi's Kung Fu i'm talking about his use of chi which he learned training in Kung Fu.Iron Fist's strikes are technically via training too.

Iron fists chi energy strikes are dragon energy he recieve from the brazier. dragon energy. Shang chi s strikes are from training only.

#43 Edited by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi s strikes are from training only.

No they aren't.His physical stats are below that of most street levelers his striking power and even his durability has been raised via chi manipulation. 
 
@weaponmaster said:

No..Iron fists chi strikes are from the energies of Shou-Lao the Undying which he got from pressing his chest to a flaming brazier. basically it's dragon energy. 

It's not dragon anything.Iron Fist focuses his OWN chi to strike that way.He's not using any outside energy source. 
 
@weaponmaster said:

 Shang chi utilizes traditional kung fu strikes, which do not enhance you physically beyond training and hardening of the hands, feet, body, via chi-kung training.

Untrue.It also increases his durability,speed and pain tolerance.
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#44 Posted by Fluke-buddha (644 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm leaning towards Shang.  Can BP in his current state still take on a bullet dodger? 

#45 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

Meant T'chaka not T'challa. If I remember correctly T'chaka stated that this was the case.

Which instance was this stated in.Their fights were shown in several different books?
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#46 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi s strikes are from training only.

No they aren't.His physical stats are below that of most street levelers his striking power and even his durability has been raised via chi manipulation.

@weaponmaster said:

No..Iron fists chi strikes are from the energies of Shou-Lao the Undying which he got from pressing his chest to a flaming brazier. basically it's dragon energy.

It's not dragon anything.Iron Fist focuses his OWN chi to strike that way.He's not using any outside energy source.

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi utilizes traditional kung fu strikes, which do not enhance you physically beyond training and hardening of the hands, feet, body, via chi-kung training.

Untrue.It also increases his durability,speed and pain tolerance.

No. his stats are not below most street levelers that are unenhanced. you are mamking that up.

Wrong. You are not aware of how Iron fists recieved the "Iron Fist". it is and energy source he gained from the brazier.

No. His speed , durability, and pain tolerance were garnered through intensive kung fu training.

#47 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Meant T'chaka not T'challa. If I remember correctly T'chaka stated that this was the case.

Which instance was this stated in.Their fights were shown in several different books?

The instance where he fought T'chaka and lost. If i remember correctly T'chaka stated that it was because of caps inexperience. proving that you were in error and experience plays a part in comics sometimes. I am certain there are other cases.

#48 Posted by Fluke-buddha (644 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi s strikes are from training only.

No they aren't.His physical stats are below that of most street levelers his striking power and even his durability has been raised via chi manipulation.

@weaponmaster said:

No..Iron fists chi strikes are from the energies of Shou-Lao the Undying which he got from pressing his chest to a flaming brazier. basically it's dragon energy.

It's not dragon anything.Iron Fist focuses his OWN chi to strike that way.He's not using any outside energy source.

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi utilizes traditional kung fu strikes, which do not enhance you physically beyond training and hardening of the hands, feet, body, via chi-kung training.

Untrue.It also increases his durability,speed and pain tolerance.

No. his stats are not below most street levelers that are unenhanced. you are mamking that up.

Wrong. You are not aware of how Iron fists recieved the "Iron Fist". it is and energy source he gained from the brazier.

No. His speed , durability, and pain tolerance were garnered through intensive kung fu training.

I don't mean to but in here, but Vance is right on all counts here.  He's not making anything up.
#49 Posted by weaponmaster (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fluke-buddha said:

@weaponmaster said:

@Vance Astro said:

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi s strikes are from training only.

No they aren't.His physical stats are below that of most street levelers his striking power and even his durability has been raised via chi manipulation.

@weaponmaster said:

No..Iron fists chi strikes are from the energies of Shou-Lao the Undying which he got from pressing his chest to a flaming brazier. basically it's dragon energy.

It's not dragon anything.Iron Fist focuses his OWN chi to strike that way.He's not using any outside energy source.

@weaponmaster said:

Shang chi utilizes traditional kung fu strikes, which do not enhance you physically beyond training and hardening of the hands, feet, body, via chi-kung training.

Untrue.It also increases his durability,speed and pain tolerance.

No. his stats are not below most street levelers that are unenhanced. you are mamking that up.

Wrong. You are not aware of how Iron fists recieved the "Iron Fist". it is and energy source he gained from the brazier.

No. His speed , durability, and pain tolerance were garnered through intensive kung fu training.

I don't mean to but in here, but Vance is right on all counts here. He's not making anything up.

No. You are wrong on all counts.

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91363 posts) - - Show Bio
@weaponmaster said:

No. his stats are not below most street levelers that are unenhanced. you are mamking that up.

Wrong. You are not aware of how Iron fists recieved the "Iron Fist". it is and energy source he gained from the brazier.

No. His speed , durability, and pain tolerance were garnered through intensive kung fu training.

Yes they are.His actual stats are "athlete" level. He's not enhanced,he's not peak human.His feats are based on chi manipulation not his own physical ability. 
I know how Iron Fist is able to use the Iron Fist.His encounter with Shou-Lao allowed him to manipulate his chi and unlock his own natural abilities.  
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