Black Panther(T'challa) runs the gauntlet!!

Clears

@alexander505: @bat_girl_cc:BOY do I wish I had the time to deal with you two---but I don't have the time---I've got to go to work (GRRRRRR)!!!

But, like a highly unlikely elected former California Governor might say---

I'LL BE BACK.

Should clear. His skills are as good, or close enough, to the best fighters here and his physicals are better than pretty much everyone here. Should clear, Pre-52 Slade might give him some fits and potentially Cass for a little.

Having fewer showings doesn't make her feats more consistent than Panther's. Dude said that Panther consistently fights metahumans that physically greater than Panther. Cassandra doesn't.

So, you think Nightwing is on the same level as Spider-Man?

Is it fair to say he can still use projectiles via his claws in this gauntlet?

Not only does he fight metas physically greater than himself but they are much more skilled than that of the likes that Sandra and Cass Face.. They usually fight either skilled opponents or metas with no skill.. T'challa is not only physically superior to the skilled people they face regularly but he is also more skilled than they with a very few exceptions....

It doesn't make it more consistent, if we aren't talking about a great difference in feat per appearence, but in this case, i belive that we are (i admitedly might be wrong on Panther, but i doubt that his feat per appearence ratio, is as consistent as Cassandra's).

Both have alot of showings on which they fight and defeat meta-humans...but the big difference is on thei're appearences, Panther has more of those showings obviously, but he did so, on his almost 2000 appearences...Cass has little more than 350...BP would have to perform those feats much more times than Cass, just to make it, as consistent.

I think he clears by the skin of his teeth.

This is completly self-assumed, and on my next post, i'll show you why.

Also, if Panther fights very skilled opponents that are also physicaly superior to him, than how does he win?...unless you're talking about guys like Iron Fist (using his chi) against which BP needed to use his vibranium suit to survive, and which he doesn't have here.

White wolf(only one I am not sure if he is super or not @static_shock may know pretty sure he is equal to tchalla), man ape, death tiger, Kraven the hunter, sabertooth, Vlad the impaler are all supers with skill...

@newecho: He also beat Black Dwarf during Infinity. Not the best example of a skillful opponent, but his raw power is just too high for me to ignore mentioning him.

@micah: i am just getting to infinity. . I have two more preludes to go before I read the infinity story..Hickman's avengers is pretty awesome and interesting but he kind of just put adam and starbrand on the back burner lol..I know I am way behind lol

No, because they are energy daggers.

What relevant metahumans has she fought? I only recall her dealing with a few. Ravager, was even at first but ended with Cassandra being pinned under her sword. Had two fights against Deathstroke which were inconclusive because he was likely toying with her. Had one against Supergirl (but needed red sun energy swords to stand a chance) but I wouldn't count that one since you feel T'Challa benefited from his vibranium suit against Iron Fist in order to win (even though it's still a testament to fighting skills, considering Iron Fist's skill level). She won neither of those battles, though. If she had dominated any of them, I'd understand.

Black Panther defeated Man-Ape (lifts 10 tons, and is superhumanly durable) through pure skill and knocked him out. He almost killed Alyosha Kravinoff in their second fight but Iron Man stopped him. He also defeated Sergei Kravenoff (and T'Challa was depowered at the time). Both Kravens are metahuman and were defeated through skill alone. He dropped Luke Cage (who lifts 25 tons and has superhuman durability) with well-placed pressure point attacks. He defeated and broke the limbs of a Skrull that had Luke Cage's strength and durability, Wolverine's claws, Bullseye's accuracy, and Iron Fist's Chi, as well as Panther's own fighting skills, Captain America's, Moon Knight's, Daredevil's, Elektra's, and Shang Chi. Again, with skill, knowledge of Skrull pressure points, and figuring out its weakness. T'Challa also defeated a team of metahumans while he was depowered, with a little stealth, fighting skills and cunning. He also defeated Black Dwarf, another superhuman character with sheer skill (although most of the fight was off-panel, and Panther said that he might have broken his hand). He also dominated Stegron (another superhuman character that somewhat stronger than Spider-Man and also bulletproof), consistently maintaining the upper hand against him with nothing but skills. What makes that fight significant is that Stegron gave Spider-Man issues in battle. Panther also dominated Karnak in their first fight with nothing but skills, and knocked out Karnak in the same manner in a subsequent battle. There's probably more, but sadly, my external hard drive is on the fritz so I don't have a lot to refer to. But, as far as how he does, Panther is superhuman and a master martial artist. Deadly combination.

lol yeah dude you are waaaaay behind. But then again, caching up shouldn't be that hard. Want my advise you could honestly just skip Original Sin and AXIS or read parts of both online. Go straight into the Time Runs Out series of books and make your way into Secret Wars. As for your concern about Adam and Starbrand don't worry, they will get their time to shine later. Both in particular are lead characters in the first arcs of Avengers World if I remember.

@micah: appreciate the advice. . I will probably do just that but I will probably read all of Hickman's material just not the events themselves? I am reading forever evil in dc now also, that's how far behind i am lol.. I am caught up on lots of individual titles tho..

do you have any advice for dc reading?

White Wolf isn't metahuman. He may have been trained just as T'challa was, but he lacks any impressive showings. Death Tiger also isn't metahuman, to my knowledge, but I could be wrong. Vald the Impaler is just peak-human, so I wouldn't count him.

@static_shock: white wolf is tchalla's brother right?

Yeah Hickman is the kind of writer you can really tell plans his stuff out years in advance lol. His run on Avengers will go down as my all time favorite probably. He made me care about characters such as Hyperion and Smasher, characters I previously wouldn't have paid much attention to or really had expected to get the mainstream spotlight. Make sure you read everything in Time Runs Out prior to Secret Wars when you get there. The pay-off your about to experience for Infinity will be just as great in this scenario.

For DC reading I personally didn't enjoy Forever Evil that much but it wasn't a terrible event IMO. Your opinion could probably be the direct opposite of mine, but I went into Forever Evil with a sourish taste after realizing Trinity War was nothing more than a stepping stone to the event, but the final reveal of the event (assuming for you it hasn't been spoiled) might hype you up. After Forever Evil came Futures End again you might like the direction of the book, I did too for the first couple of issues but I fell out of it towards the end. Convergence started off slow but has really picked up in the last couple of issues. The tie-ins have been decent so far same as the Secret Wars ones (the few that have come out), but it's fun to see all the versions of long-time characters interacting with each other. Really never gets old. Long story short, for DC's recent events I suggest trying out a few issues beforehand to get your feel on each of them. I guarantee you'll know if you want to continue or drop within the first two issues.

@heatblaze123@static_shock@granitesoldier@alexander505@theonewhoknows@newecho

In a Peak-Human vs Low-Level-Meta-Human fight, i don't think that it makes much sense, to use the physicals difference, as if it was a decisive thing, because it's really not...Every peak-human worth their salt, has stallemated/defeated meta-humans before...Pre-New-52 Nightwing for exemple, who's also on his gauntlet, has done it countless times...and yet, he was many times defeated/stallemated by other peak-humans like him, Cass for exemple, has had little trouble with him, minus in one ocasion, on which they stallemated, in other ocasions, Cass managed to dance circles around him, without getting touched.

Cassandra herself, has faced meta-humans many times, here's just some instances:

- Batgirl #3 - Batgirl Meets Meta (Cass faced a meta-human in combat, for the first time, and she defeated him with high-difficulty, Batman was there, he also faced him, and he could not beat that meta.)

- Batgirl #10 - Defeated (With one kick, Cass sents a huge bullet-proof guy flying across the room, with strong enough force, to leave a small crater on a brick wall.)

- Batgirl #33 - Father's Day (Cass K.O's a meta-human, with one single punch.)

- Batgirl #39 - Black Wind and Batgirl #40 - Little Bat (Cass fights the meta-human Black Wind, on both issues, and defeats him on the later.)

- Batgirl #45 - Soul (Cass faces a huge meta-human guy, that was picking up cars and throwing them around in the air, like if they were ping-pong balls, and she puts him to sleep, by using a pressure-point.)

- Batgirl #54 - Cooking the Books (Cass defeats a cyborg).

- Robin #133 - Fresh Blood, Part Three: The Auction (Cass and Tim, fight several villian under The Pinguim's comand, and Cass starts the fight by taking on Blockbuster, by herself)

- Batgirl #61 - The Hood, Part Two: Into the Light (Cass faces the brootherhood of evil for the first time, all 3 of them together at the same time, and she loses, mostly due to their meta-human member, Mallah, who beats her, due to Cass having trouble to Body-Read him, since his body-language, doesn't work like the one from the humans)

- Batgirl #62 - The Hood, Part Three: Dead Weight (Defeated, Cass preps for her rematch against the Brotherhood, which she wins soundly.)

- Nightwing #81 - Venn Diagram, Part 2: Friends Under Fire (Cassandra's first fight against Deathstroke, which eneded in stallemate (all of their 3, 1-on-1 fights, ended inconclusively))

- Batgirl #63 - Could've Been, Part One: Nowadays (second fight, between Cass and Deathstroke, and another stallemate)

- Batgirl #64 - Could've Been, Part Two: Gone, Daddy, Gone (After fighting Deathstroke, Cass fights Deathstroke's highly skilled and also meta-human daughter Rose Wilson, The Ravager, and defeats her after a rather long and even fight)

- Teen Titans #44 - Titans East Part 2 (Cassandra's second fight against Rose Wilson - The Ravager, this time it ends in stallemate).

- Teen Titans #45 - Titans East Part 3 (Cassandra's third fight against Deathstroke, which like the others ended with no clean winner, although this time, and for the first time, Deathstroke actually had the upper-hand.)

- Batgirl #4 - Redemption Road, Chapter Four: Daddy Issues (Cass has a brief battle against Deathstroke, but this time she had help).

And this is obviosuly already leaving out her multiple showings against Supergirl and Superboy, for obvious reasons.

And there are other instances, but this ones i belive, are more than enough to prove my point.

@static_shock: vlad had energy manip is why I included him as super.. he is also skilled martial artist. I probably should have clarified that I wasn't just talking about strength and speed..

@micah: thanks ..really appreciate it. .. the trinity war event was the whole reason I cancelled my justice league subscription lol..I was so mad with the continuation of stories in books I had no interest in.. I have enjoyed the rougues part of forever evil but the prison part is kind of lame

If we talk about about Martial Artist's, then...Cass has 5 (1-on-1) fights against Lady Shiva, 2 decisive wins, 1 stallemate, and 2 losses (both with context)...defeated her father David Cain, twice...she has several fights against Batman, some were sparring-sessions, some were actual fights, but with both of them at their peak, there were always no clear winner...2 fights against Onyix, the first was stagged, and the second Cass won...defeated her Half-Brother Mad-Dog, who was trained by both David Cain and Lady Shiva...humilliated the Shrike, a skilled Nightwing villain...during a sparring that they had, Cass easly toke dow Black Canary, once she got serious...stallemated Connor Hawke, and dominated most of the fight, Connor Hawke, who has given very hard fights to both Lady Shiva and Silver Monkey, and stallemated Richard Dragon twice...etc.

Any chance you remember what your referring to? I remember there was a comment about batman being weakened and woozy from loss of blood from a shark but the instance I am talking about happened long before that. I'd need to reread batman venom to see if Bruce was weakened when he failed to lift 630ibs. I can agree its a low showing though.

As far as stopping the crocodile's jaws goes, firstly that isnt anything beyond a peak human. Grayson has held open the jaws of a killer shark underwater briefly with his efforts, Batman in one of the older pre crisis stories killed a shark by snapping its spine ( hes also done this a couple of times vs various big cats, less so after people learnt about animal rights lol) heck Dr Doom sans armour has killed a lion buck naked, and I wouldnt exactly call him peak human.

The wrestling with animals thing is common enough for street levellers that you dont really stop to wonder just how powerful you have to be to pull that off

Well a great white shark only has a bite force of 669 PSI (which is the strongest bite force of any shark). Thats a good feat for nightwing but black panthers feat should be a lot better. To my knowledge snapping the spine of a shark is also less impressive than holding the bite force of a crocodile. Crocodiles have been known to bite through sharks IIRC.

And thats another thing I find silly lol . Its when you work in calculations like how much pressure it exerts ans whatnot that the feats border on trying to look for fine details where they dont exist. Does anyone really thing how many psi the writer had in mind while writing that feat as opposed to " Dayum wouldnt it be awesome to have Panther wrestle a croc?"

Because Im sure once we start doing hard calcs for them, feats like bending guns, snapping steel chains, breaking gun barrels in half, ripping free metal restraints are right up there, if not better than holding off a croc's jaws

Yea I see what you mean. Normally I don't really use clacs either, but with this feat all I did was google the bite force of a crocidile and checked a couple of websites and than I just entered the numbers into a PSI to tons calculator.

Personally I feel unless its something obviously way better, like say Peter holding up a subway car, most street level peak humans beyond a certain level of strength have pretty much the same strength

Well I can't find a scan of black panther picking up a car if thats what your looking for. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There is this though which isn't something I have seen batman match:

Gallery

Black Panther was able to reach strange despite him being really high up in the air. He does have other leaping feats like this IIRC. Usually when I see batman do similar he needs his cape to glide Basically both showings of batman and black panther doing similar feats but black panther seems to do these feats with less effort (kind of stealing static shocks argument and scans here):

Gallery

Gallery

But then again, its so much easier to see the difference between say superman benching the planet and She hulk lifting 90 tons. So I can see why people might think one peak human is better than the other, while I personally feel they are all more or less in the same bracket

Note, this isnt particularly based on anything against you. I think you are a fine debator and didnt even raise most of the issues im digressing about lol . Just a sort of general rant on the issue

Of course, while we are there, though I didnt particularly want to raise the point, Batman did lift a " ton of rubble" with great effort in one of the early no mans land issues

edit: it was shadow of the bat 74

I remember that feat. Batman had a support beam next to him which was about to snap and batman let go of the rubble just before that happened. So I don't think he lifted the full weight. Its still an impressive feat though.

Oh, okay. My bad.

@jashro44: Hmm. Having looked at the feats here I would have to say Bats is somewhat weaker than BP, especially in the leaping field, but then again, I dont really notice exactly how far bruce is jumping in comics if you know what I mean lol. It could be that he has feats like that and I havent noticed them, but then again I guess i would have remembered if he had done something so impressive

As for the others, I think the feats are somewhat selective here, because Batman

in the long halloween just as an example , wrenched metal bars free from what appeared to be a concrete wall, iirc and without particular effort, so him struggling against a tiger or the like is dubious. Likewise , he has managed to dig himself out of his own grave below 600 pounds of soil, after deliriously wandering about on the streets drugged, and with only a baseball bat in batman RIP, so shadow of the bat 1 seems somewhat unlikely

Ultimately even if BP is slightly stronger ( which he seems to be), I dont think the difference is particularly large enough for their to be a gap or something, or so much that it cant be compensated for, in other areas ( batman has better reflexes imo). Its like Cap vs Bats, they are not * exactly* equals but close enough imo to even out ( Cap is stronger, bruce more skilled etc)

Sorry for the short and vague reply lol. Its just that Im involved in other threads at the moment. I will try to form a better reply later, if I can

Anytime friend. Like I said you have plenty to look forward to when you get to them.

I'll argue that he doesn't beat Slade.

@bat_girl_cc:Got a little break to say---here we go again. You are normally one of the most reasonable, well thought out posters around---but something about the Batman Family characters (and ESPECIALLY Batgirl) makes you slightly bonkers. First of all, your comment that Cass is "FASTER" (????) is TOTALLY FALSE. Cain is a HUMAN BEING! It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for her to be faster than a meta human. You cannot just ignore basic fact because you "like" Cassie better! In fiction-even Comic Book fiction, there has to be basic rules. If you establish that character "A" has meta human speed and character "B" doesn't---you can't have character "B" just ignore that and trade blows with character "A" JUST BECAUSE, with no explanation. Same with strength, etc. Otherwise, what's the point of having power/skill level differences? If such differences can be ignored at will, then you can have Aunt May beat up the Hulk---and if someone objects, you can just say "Hey, it's only comics; anything goes"! or "Comic book sense is DIFFERENT from real life sense" or any number of non sensical dodges I've heard to defend some character doing something that their origin or skill/power level doesn't justify.

The way that most Batman/Slade and/or Nightwing/Slade battles go-with the Dynamic Duo giving 'Stroke all he can handle (before eventually losing, or having to escape to fight another day) is realistically how skilled human/skilled meta human battles would go. Both Wayne and Grayson are more combat skilled that Slade, but his greater strength, speed, durability, and stamina always gives him an unfair advantage. They always get in some blows (and as Slade once admitted after a hard fought victory over Batman, if it wasn't for his meta human make up, he would have lost) but the skills advantage doesn't really quite make up the difference to the speed and strength advantage. If Slade was simply a meta human meat head like the Rhino or The Absorbing Man it would be another story; likewise, when a skilled human has a tech advantage, that's also a great equalizer in a battle against a meta human.

But none of the people on the list has such an advantage. Not in skills (Panther can match or surpass them) not in ability (T'challa is a meta human) and not even especially in gear (even with the no vibranium and/or K.O.D. suit limitation).

Even giving Cassie some generous lee way---her competition doesn't match the competition T'challa has defeated, even when he was not heart shaped herb amped.

Be reasonable. Panther has too many advantages---which is why he clears.

@thegrayghost: Thats fine I'm not really in a mood to debate anyways so I don't need a lengthy reply. I disagree batmans reflexes are better though.

@bat_girl_cc: ok so now you think rose can beat panther??? You couldn't have meant that particular part....if you did then you are seriously low balling panther. ..You keep talking about skilled martial artist being basically a meta ability but what you are failing to realize is that panther is as skilled as anyone in dc minus val. We are talking one of the 3 or 4 most skilled martial artists in all of marvel, panther is that kind of skilled. He is not only that skilled but also super in stats ie speed, strength, and agility. He is also one of the 3 best tacticians in all of marvel. He is also one of the 3 or 4 smartest people in all of marvel. He has beaten pretty much everyone in marvel that is anyone including cap and danny...The only one I am not sure if he has ever fought would be shang chi but pretty much everyone else he has and has beaten....

So if you say being skilled is a meta ability or a meta like ability then why would you say anyone would beat panther if he is as skilled as anyone in the big 2 and he is also super?

I guess you have a point then, although I still think Panther's ability to fight metahumans is more impressive (since a lot of them have quantifiable showings individually and against other metahumans). Then again, her fights against Deathstroke are worth mentioning (because, well, he's has an excellent track record against metahumans himself).. We can agree to disagree, though.

He will die at 5

@heatblaze123: I reread your comment about Panther's projectiles. I realized that you were the creator of the thread. So, if you want to give Panther his energy daggers (the ones fired from his claws), you're more than welcome to.

Also, what version of Lady Shiva is in this fight? Post-Crisis or New 52? I'm asking because someone brought up the Leopard Blow, and the New 52 version of Shiva hasn't displayed this move.

Black Panther does have more showings against meta-humans than Cass has, i'm just not sure if it's more consistent for him to do it as it is for Cass, and also in Marvel i feel like there's some street-levelers that get labeleb as meta-humans by Marvel itself, but their feats are comparable to DC's peak-humans, so it may also have to do with a certain company having certain characters being stated as being stated as being meta, and other companies don't, when they could, since many of those characters feats don't differ much.

Fair Enough.

If BP had his vibranium suit, i would say that he would clear, unless the OP put "composite" Slade on this gauntlet.

Yeah..I can't do that lol. It wouldn't be a challenge or fair. Also this is pre 52 lady shiva.

Stops at 7.

I figured as much.

New 52 Lady Shiva would lose to BP, without vibranium suit, and heart shapped herb...her best feats are stomping Dick Grayson on his first day as Robin...and defeating Nightwing, while Grayson had a broken rib, and he still landed hits on Shiva!...and those are her best ones, don't even ask me about her other showings...

@bat_girl_cc: I will try to address most of your points later today but think about this,,, panther isn't taking the heart shaped herb to become peak human... he is taking it to enhance his already peak human stats...

You keep saying he needs his suit but none of these guys use any energy based weapons or any kind of firearms minus slade and jason so I really don't think his suit is needed as bad as you might think...

Stops at 5.

I would have given him a little further; however you blood lusted everyone and half of the everyone are some lethal killers.

Clears

@static_shock: did you see the scans?

@bat_girl_cc: you are assuming they can land a fatal blow...I have already shown you he is as skilled as anyone on this list and it has been shown what his strength is by jashro44 and static... Tchalla's fight with danny even with danny being mad proves he is as skilled as lady shiva and cass because neither of them are as skilled as danny.

They do not face metas with the same skill level of panther. Cass has stalemated slade twice and was losing their other fight because slade was toying with her. Panther is right with slade in physicals and more skilled.

Btw keeping up with a full chi amped danny is plenty of proof that he os as fast or faster than shiva and cass

@bat_girl_cc: To be honest its actually not hard to kill someone in one hit. You can do that by punching someone in the temple. The leopard blow isn't really all that.

@bat_girl_cc:You are having prononun trouble, because, actually, it is tiring discussing the difference between meta human and human characters with YOU. You cannot, or will not grasp that meta humans, by definition, are ABOVE the limits of mere humans. I can't believe, I'm saying this, but Newecho is right on point with his arguments (GAAAGGG)! While martial arts gives one the ability to do things that the average human can't do, they CANNOT magically make someone denser, faster, or stronger than human limits allow. If they could, why stop at mere fighting skills? Hey, since you're heavily into PIS, let's say that Cain can "train" herself to fly! To be as strong as the Hulk! To suddenly shoot lasers out of her backside! Hey, as long as we depict enough stories of her doing those things, "consistently", than it doesn't matter that no human body can do such things---"it's a comic, so anything goes"!!

Except that "anything" DOESN'T go. Her "very existence" justifies her being exceptionally combat skilled, and able to defeat most TERRAN opponents she faces; it does NOT justify her being able to keep up with meta human opponents who are several times FASTER than a human body can move. No amount of "skill" can make a human body move faster than it is physically capable of moving. Superb skill can make one able to last longer than a non skilled person can against meta humans, but ultimately, if you are facing someone who can hit you several times faster (and harder) than your human body can react (and your human body can withstand) you are going to be, sooner or later, defeated.

That is why, as much as I "like" Nightwing, I don't have a problem with him losing to a SKILLED meta human opponent; there is nothing he can do if that opponent is as, or MORE skilled than he, PLUS is faster, stronger, and has more stamina. "Like" has nothing to do with a fight---it's basic math. And that goes for Cain, Shiva, and any other superbly skilled, but HUMAN character. Now again, if Nightwing et. al. either has a skill, tech (or both) advantage over a meta human, that equalizes things. But none on that list has such an advantage over T'challa. When I get another break I'll lay out some of the stuff the Panther has done LEGITIMITELY because of his meta human make up. But for now, I'll leave you with this: By your "logic", Batman, even though he has merely a human body, can beat up even Spectre level people without tech OR prep. Because, after all, over the years, his "legitimite" feats have included punching Wonder Woman (who has tanked multiple blows from Superman and Captain Marvel when each was bloodlusted) and making her SCREAM in pain; punched and kicked the Hulk with enough force to make him not just yell, but WHINE in pain (even though this same Hulk has withstood Thor's hammer upside the head without crying out) somehow moved fast enough to strike a slightly bloodlusted Superman in the "Hush" storyline with enough force to turn his head (even though he has withstood the galaxy destroying blast of an Imperiex Drone) and kicked the Spectre with enough power to make the Spectre MOAN in pain (WHAAAAA---?!?) Now any and all those incidents are PIS-Batman's human body just isn't durable or fast enough to pull those things off-but, since he has done these things "consistently", now of course, those things are suddenly "legit". In the same way that Cain-with no enhancement of any kind-can "legitimitely" do some of the things she is shown doing.

Nah. Without complete PIS involved, no one on the list (with the possible exception of Slade) can legitimitely beat a man who is just as skilled and is much, MUCH faster. Translation: BLACK PANTHER CLEARS.

I saw them. Acrobatic ability and agility doesn't always go hand in hand. Just because Grayson can pull off an acrobatic move just like Spider-Man can doesn't mean he's on Spider-Man's level of agility. If someone has superhuman agility, their ability to move and change positions is at a superhuman level. In Spider-Man's case, whatever acrobatic moves that Grayson can do, Spider-Man could probably do better because he's utilizing superhuman effort (possibly pulling them off faster). Both are master acrobats, but only Spider-Man is superhuman, so he's better. Also, it was never stated that Nightwing had any superhuman physical abilities, so there's no reason to assume that he's literally superhuman. At best, he's probably on par with Daredevil.

Nightwing might be more acrobatic than Panther (after all, Grayson was born into acrobatics), but he's not more agile. Why? Panther has superhuman agility. Nightwing is probably a master acrobat (the best in DC, I'm sure), pulling off difficult acrobatic moves that Panther probably can't replicate. Why? Acrobatics is a skill, one that Panther probably hasn't mastered and is only moderately skilled at it. Nonetheless, his ability to move and change positions while in motion is enhanced to superhuman levels, while Grayson's isn't. If Panther benefited from being a master acrobat like Nightwing, his superhuman agility would allow him to outshine Nightwing in acrobatics. It is what it is.

Either way, we'd be arguing in circles about this because a lot of people think that labels don't mean anything, when they should, to an extent. You're free to believe what you want, though.

Hunter, the White Wolf, is his adopted brother. He was created by Christopher Priest during his run on Black Panther volume 2. He was adopted by T'Chaka, before T'Challa was born. News of T'Challa's birth jeopardized Hunter's ascension to the throne, and he has resented him ever since. Instead, he was made the leader of the Hatut Zeraze, the Wakandan Secret Police. T'Challa disbanded them after he became the King, but somehow, they still work behind the scenes.