Black Canary CW versus Black Widow MCU

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man_thing

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Round 1- Strictly h2h. Usual morals. In Starling City in an alley. Nighttime. Win by KO.

Round 2- Natasha has a Colt Anaconda with one roll of bullets. Sara has her staffs and canary cry device. Bloodlusted. Win by death. Same place.

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man_thing

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Callouts.

Tell me if you want to stop getting tagged in my battles.Arrow

@funsiized@princearagorn1@rogueshadow@jokerpoker@godzilla44

@rbt @pokeysteve@fetts@fallschirmjager@jokergeist@princearagorn1 @lukehero

@allstarsuperman@deathstroke19@homicidalmaniac @sophia89

Marvel Cinematic Universe]

@rogueshadow @risingbean@pokeysteve @pope052@lukehero

@fallschirmjager@stupid_people @sophia89

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mickey-mouse

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#3  Edited By mickey-mouse

@agentj07: EDIT:

I actually change my vote after looking at the tie in comic a bit more...

Round 1: Canary Wins 8/10

Round 2: BW 7/10

If you give full gear to Widow & full gear to Sara...Widow wins the majority due to gear 10/10.

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AllStarSuperman

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#4  Edited By AllStarSuperman

Widow is so underrated

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Funsiized

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#6  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

Widow wins 2, Canary 1.

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#7  Edited By RBT

@rogueshadow: Widow looses 2 as well. Canary cry is an insta win.

@lukehero: How does Widow win with full gear? Sara has canary cry that has taken dowm room full of SWAT officers.

To OP, Sara is a much better combatant than Natasha. She easily wins round 1. Round 2 is even easier.

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godzilla44

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Canary wins both rounds

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@allstarsuperman: How? IIRC, general thinking on the site is she'd defeat Baleman. That's kinda overrated.

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rogueshadow

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#10 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rbt: She just shoots the device.

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@rogueshadow: Yep. Because she'd definitely know that the device is gonna emit high frequency sound waves. Also the device is very small and takes very little time to activate. Widow is not that fast.

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#12 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rbt said:

@rogueshadow: Yep. Because she'd definitely know that the device is gonna emit high frequency sound waves. Also the device is very small and takes very little time to activate. Widow is not that fast.

When it emits the high pitch, she winces in pain and shoots it/shoots Canary. She pretty much did it to Ollie on the rooftop and he winces a bit and then looks back, and they weren't even engaged in combat.

BW isn't stupid, she's very savvy, it's her best advantage in these fights, she's far trickier than most live action street levellers. She will know if she falls to the floor like a b*tch she's going to lose. She's not going to do that in my opinion. The only people it literally dropped to their knees were the police officers a.k.a. fodder iirc.

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Ultragreenboy

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Widow wins 1 but 2 is a toss up

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@rogueshadow: Winces in pain? The cry knocked down SWAT officers, Huntress and is said to rupture eardrums when used at full power. Widow hasn't shown any out of ordinary shooting feat. She's definitely not going to be able to shoot the device when her ears are bbleeding and head is splitting. Sara dodges bullets(aim dodge, of course) on daily basis. And she has amazing pain tolerance. One bullet is definitely not gonna slow her down let alone stop her. Of couse that's all assuming that Natasha would get the chance to use the Colt. Which she won't seeing how fast Sara is with her staffs and how good her aim is. Widow is outclassed is skill, has no reaction feat to suggest she can block/dodge the staff if Sara throws it, has no extraordinary shooting feats. Tell me if there is. I might be forgetting something.

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mickey-mouse

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#15  Edited By mickey-mouse

@rbt: Explosives & Emps & other electric weapons my friend. She'll sort out the carny cry, then electrocute Sara with taser disks...also I believed she carried explosives.

Black Widow MCU Tie In Comic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_tie-in_comics#The_Avengers_Prelude:_Black_Widow_Strikes

It didn't take them down she used it as a distraction then made a quick getaway with Ollie. It hurts...you can still fight through it & it doesn't last that long. Not as if it makes brains explodes or even ear drums... By the way shattering glass with sound, not impressive at all, considering Trained Singers can do the same darn thing.

From Broken Dolls...it didn't take them out..it just hurt, they covered their ears...then Canary and Ollie run away.

No Caption Provided

Hurts Huntress, Huntress gets right up and starts fighting...It doesn't hurt that much. It's not a weapon that was built to hurt people that much..at all.

Loading Video...

These are some of her electric weapons, she also has stingers that shoot right out of her wristbands. So yeah, Sara will be electrocuted. In fact...Black Widow 8/10 with full gear.

Loading Video...

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mickey-mouse

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@rbt said:

@rogueshadow: Yep. Because she'd definitely know that the device is gonna emit high frequency sound waves. Also the device is very small and takes very little time to activate. Widow is not that fast.

-_- She could easily shoot the device, she would know what the device is and is doing, it's not rocket science mate. Black Widow usually holds her freaking hand up and points the device at people or tosses it on the ground right in front of them. Canary still stomps in Round 1 & 2...she has much better H2H feats. Canary Cry isn't remotely why she would beat Black Widow.

If widow gets her full gear, then she wins.

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#17  Edited By RBT

@lukehero: You are only posting the instance s where Sara was trying NOT to hurt her targets. She knew Arrow was Oliver, Huntress was surrounded by hostages. When she did use device at full power it knocked down a room full of SWAT officers, ruptured ear drums of thugs. Widow doesn't usually carry explosives. Yes, she has tasers but she needs to be in close range to use it. Sara has better range attacks. Canary Cry, staff, which she has pretty good aim with. Even if Natasha manages to get close, Sara is much faster than her wheb it comes to combat. She's much more skilled abd brutal.

As for shooting tasers, Sara has dodged arrows. I'm not talking about aim dodge. She has actually dodged arrows.

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rogueshadow

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#18  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

@rbt said:

@rogueshadow: Winces in pain? The cry knocked down SWAT officers, Huntress and is said to rupture eardrums when used at full power. Widow hasn't shown any out of ordinary shooting feat. She's definitely not going to be able to shoot the device when her ears are bbleeding and head is splitting. Sara dodges bullets(aim dodge, of course) on daily basis. And she has amazing pain tolerance. One bullet is definitely not gonna slow her down let alone stop her. Of couse that's all assuming that Natasha would get the chance to use the Colt. Which she won't seeing how fast Sara is with her staffs and how good her aim is. Widow is outclassed is skill, has no reaction feat to suggest she can block/dodge the staff if Sara throws it, has no extraordinary shooting feats. Tell me if there is. I might be forgetting something.

I noted that before, police are fodder, knocking them down doesn't mean anything in my opinion. Ollie winces in pain from it when the two meet again and I don't recall it literally bringing down Huntress, I thought she just kind of grimaced yelled a bit and carried on. Plus, BW>>>> Huntress in my opinion.

She hasn't dodged against anybody of note IIRC, BW>>>> Fodder with guns.

BW has dodged Hawkeye's arrows, she can definitely dodge BC's staff pretty easily.

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@rogueshadow: Again, she knew it was Oliver and was not trying to hurt him. Heck Oliver even asked if that thing could get any louder. As far as durability is concerned, SWAT members are not fodder. They have same durability as Widow, even more. The device would affect Natasha same way it did on those SWATs and thugs whosr eardrum she ruptured.

That's the thing. Widow has no notable shooting feat that should imply that she's better than thugs whose gunfire Sara dodged. Plus they carry automatics while Wodow has Colt. Which is even slower than a desert Eagle.

I don't remember Natasha dodging arrows. When was it exactly?

Also BW>> Huntress. Not when it comes to durability. Even in skills I think Helena is better seeing that she was able to fight Oliver for some time. And she has caught arrows. Much better reflexes. In all aspect, Helena>> Widow actually.

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mickey-mouse

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@rbt: Ollie's arrows are slow as hell, there are examples of fodder dodging his arrows. There are times previously featless characters show up and catch his arrows. It's very non impressive.

No, I am showing the examples of the times she has used it...that is why the canary cry was made, as a distraction, it is not capable at all of taking out a fully grown Adult. It's not a killing weapon and it doesn't hurt that much. The burden of proof is now on you.

Usually doesn't carry explosives? Did you miss the part where I said; Full Gear? Not Standard Gear...but Full Gear.

She doesn't have to be that close to toss the small electric disks on the ground in front of Sara. Sara gets electricuted and then gets stomped.

Show us where it knocked down a full room of swat officers flat on their butt...we are waiting. Cause I've watched all of the show and have seen much of the tie in comic and have never seen that.

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rogueshadow

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#21 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rbt: Why didn't it effect Laurel? SWAT are fodder in my opinion and they weren't even fully out of it, You're making BW out to be some punk. She dodges Arrows when she fights Hawkeye. Ollie was going easy on Huntress, like he has throughout the entire show, he's trying to save her. I think that suggesting Huntress and BW are on the same level is very unfair to Black Widow

I don't care enough to keep debating this all night though [not to be rude, I just don't care] .

I'd just say this:

Widow is so underrated

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#22  Edited By RBT

@lukehero: Oliver's arrows are slow as hell? Lol, no. Its just that people whi have caught it have great reflxes. Billy Wintergreen was crazy fast. 6 punches in 2 seconds. Helena practiced the move. Malcolm, Al Owal, Nyssa all are League of Assassin members. Roy and Slade are enhanced. Oliver's arrows are no slower than real life arrows.

I have provided feats where she has ruptured ear drums of her target. She knocked down SWAT members in 2x03. Diggle said all her victims had ruptured ear drums, so yeah.

Again, someone who can dodge an arrow going at over 300mph won't have any problen dodging a disk barely going at 50 mph.

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@rogueshadow: Umm.. it did affect Laurel. I'm not making BW to be some punk, lol. I'm comparing her durability to that of a SWAT officer. That's pretty reasonable comparison, IMO.

Not when they were fighting in the restaurant. Oliver didn't even know she was Helena. Until he took off her helmet, she was fighting very evenly with Oliver.

Okay.

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rogueshadow

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#24  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

@rbt: I mean't a full put down and it didn't rupture her eardrums. Laurel was just shook up and it hurt her, but nothing that debilitating. If a notable character were put down to the point of an inability to function properly for a prolonged period, I would wholeheartedly agree with . Also, I think Arrows only move at about 252.273 mph max [I know from research in a previous thread].

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@rogueshadow: It didn't rupture her eardrum because devuce was not being used a full power. Laurel is her sister. With no reservation, Sara has used the device to rupture ear drums. It has been mentioned in the show. She won't be holding back against Widow.

You're right about arrows. I thought they could move at 350 max.

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mickey-mouse

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#26  Edited By mickey-mouse

@rbt: Ruptured Ear? Drum? That's what you got? You have provided nothing that I have not already debunked. Dude go watch episode 3 from Season 2 Broken Dolls, which I already mentioned. She uses the Carnary Cry and then the police get right back up and start chasing them and are able to fire off some shots.

Rupturing your ear drum? Doesn't do jack in terms of pain. You can rupture your ear drum at a rock concert and not even know it. You can rupture your ear drum at a construction site and keep on working if you don't have on protective ear muffs. An ear ache, then it goes away..that's it?

No Caption Provided

Yes his arrows are slow as hell. Every bow & every arrow in the world does not move at the same speed.

So Canary now has omni knowledge of the disks & widow stings? She's gonna dodge a large area electric burst attack really?

From the tie in comic link that I already posted...not to mention she has guns & explosives...Canary loses & dies.

No Caption Provided

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GraniteSoldier

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Widow.

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Pokeysteve

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Canary in the first for a majority.

Widow guns her down in the 2nd for a majority.

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Fetts

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I'd give this to Widow in a good fight.

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Widow. She's way hotter too. Canary's hotness is definitely overrated.

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@lukehero: Yeah. Evey SWAT member was down on their knees. And only got back up when she turned off the device. If same thing happens to Widow and she gets forced down, Sara would have enough time to disarm and finish Widow.

When you get something better than 'his arrows are slow as hell', I'd reply. Seriously that's a poor attempt at trying to rule out a feat. The bow arrow uses can fire at over 210mph. That's not slow. In season 1, his bow could fire at almost same speed. Shado mentioned that the bow he used had 150lbs tension.

Sara doesn't need any knowledge to dodge electric disks. Its a very common reaction to attack. Sara has dodged much faster attacks. Dodging disks would be child's play for her.

And how about you stop try to debunk Sara's feat and actually post any decent feat of Widow?

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mickey-mouse

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@rbt: -_- I posted video for BW a long time ago, yes the Arrows are slow as hell, almost every freaking character in Arrow of note dodges them or catches them

You trying to hang on to Sara's canary cry is embarrassing.

I posted the link For BW's movie tie in comic too :/ .

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@rbt:

Example...this guy is totally featless outside of this 1 very short appearance...he casually blocks Ollie's Arrow.

Loading Video...

Also BW was able to move out of the way of Arrows of HW. HW's arrow's tagged the Chirtauri even when they were flying around on their little gliders. So again...BC dodging Ollie's Arrow's not a big deal...at all.

Loading Video...

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@lukehero: Oh boy. Your argument is start to loose credibility. And that's saying something since your very first argument is ridiculous.

First. Arrow's arrows are not slow as 'hell'. Now how do I know that? Cause they freaking MENTIONED it in the show. Shado said that the bow had 150lbs tension. Making its speed to be somewhere between 190-225 mph depending on the mass of arrow. In second season Felicity had a custom bow madr whose info is available on internet had you bothered to do a little research instead of making baseless claims. The Oneida Kerstel bow Oliver uses can fire upto 240mph. NOT SLOW.

So a featless guy blocking an arrow is actually a reaction feat for that guy.

Secondly, Widow didn't dodge Barton's arrows. Do you know the difference between actual dodging and aim dodging? I'm guessing not since you claimed that Natasha dodged arrows. She changed her position while Barton was loading the arrow. That's aim dodging. Oliver has aim dodged bullets from automatics fired by Deadshot. Doesn't mean he can actually dodge a bullet.

Canary Cry has taken down men before(long enough for Sara to make the first move) and WILL affect Widow the same way until you prove that Natasha is more durable than a normal SWAT member.

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Jphu8414

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#35  Edited By Jphu8414

Canary wins both rounds. I mean come on, freaking LoA training

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Night4345

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Sara both rounds.

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mickey-mouse

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#37  Edited By mickey-mouse

@rbt said:

@lukehero: Oh boy. Your argument is start to loose credibility. And that's saying something since your very first argument is ridiculous.

Nope, you keep hanging on canary cry.

First. Arrow's arrows are not slow as 'hell'. Now how do I know that? Cause they freaking MENTIONED it in the show. Shado said that the bow had 150lbs tension. Making its speed to be somewhere between 190-225 mph depending on the mass of arrow. In second season Felicity had a custom bow madr whose info is available on internet had you bothered to do a little research instead of making baseless claims. The Oneida Kerstel bow Oliver uses can fire upto 240mph. NOT SLOW.

Statements and what is actually shown on screen are two different things. For comic book speed, 240mph, not that big of a deal. Not as if she is bullet timing or dodging lasers here mate.

So a featless guy blocking an arrow is actually a reaction feat for that guy.

Nope, it's embarrassing slow speed of an arrow, that nobodies can show up and block Ollie's slow Arrows.

Secondly, Widow didn't dodge Barton's arrows. Do you know the difference between actual dodging and aim dodging? I'm guessing not since you claimed that Natasha dodged arrows. She changed her position while Barton was loading the arrow. That's aim dodging. Oliver has aim dodged bullets from automatics fired by Deadshot. Doesn't mean he can actually dodge a bullet.

She moved out of the way, stop nitpicking.

Canary Cry has taken down men before(long enough for Sara to make the first move) and WILL affect Widow the same way until you prove that Natasha is more durable than a normal SWAT member.

Again, you leaning on that Canary Cry is pretty sad, when it's not meant for that in the first place, it's just a distraction weapon, BC has never won a fight due to her Canary Cry. Please show me some video of her doing so. I just showed you video and proof of characters recovering from it. All it does is cause a bad ear ache.

Seriously you are gonna keep comparing BW to a normal Swat Team member?

She was strong enough to recover from being body slammed by a Chirtarui, strong enough to one kick a Chitaruri off of his glider...Stop it. Not to mention she survived a run in with the Hulk...

Loading Video...

BW electrocutes BC, BC gets stomped then she dies.

FYI: Your math on the Speed of the Arrow...Pure Speculation, everything affects the speed of the bow; The weight of the arrow, what type of arrow is being used, the arrow material, the type of bow string, who's shooting the arrow, etc, etc...

Fact is, all we can go by is what is show...and what is shown is multiple characters dodge and catch Ollie's Arrows.

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@lukehero: Bringing up Hulk? Yeah, I'm done.

And btw, WWidow didn't dodge the arrow.

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Thorverine

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#39  Edited By Thorverine

Widow is so underrated

I'm not sure if she's underrated, but as far as MCU goes, she has been enormously passed by Melinda May. In fairness though, they did hint that May has "special abilities" when she fought the interdimensional teleporting guy.

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mickey-mouse

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@rbt: Yes, you are done & debunked. No one said she could survive being stomped, I said she survived an encounter. That is all.

You're defeat is accepted. Good day.

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#41  Edited By RBT
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mickey-mouse

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#42  Edited By mickey-mouse

@rbt: :/ No need for sour grapes mate.

And as far as Widow's Speed another feat from the tie in comic, dodging direct gun fire. Now that I have reminded myself of it...I have actually changed my vote above.

No Caption Provided

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#43 frozen  Moderator

Both CW Canary and MCU Widow are relatively unimpressive.

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godzilla44

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@rbt: BC both rounds and I like how Lukehero said stop nitpicking to you yet that's what he's been doing this whole time.

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@frozen said:

Both CW Canary and MCU Widow are relatively unimpressive.

As compared to what though? They are both good for TV/Movie Street Level. Widow did pretty well in her Tie In Comic.

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#47 frozen  Moderator

@lukehero said:

@frozen said:

Both CW Canary and MCU Widow are relatively unimpressive.

As compared to what though? They are both good for TV/Movie Street Level. Widow did pretty well in her Tie In Comic.

I rank Widow below Daniel Craig's James Bond and Nolan Batman, Canary below Jason Bourne and Nolan Bane.

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mickey-mouse

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@rbt: BC both rounds and I like how Lukehero said stop nitpicking to you yet that's what he's been doing this whole time.

Umm. No I didn't. I actually originally said BC stomps both rounds, until I reminded myself of BW tie in comic.

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mickey-mouse

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@frozen said:

@lukehero said:

@frozen said:

Both CW Canary and MCU Widow are relatively unimpressive.

As compared to what though? They are both good for TV/Movie Street Level. Widow did pretty well in her Tie In Comic.

I rank Widow below Daniel Craig's James Bond and Nolan Batman, Canary below Jason Bourne and Nolan Bane.

That's fair....I may disagree on some points, but it's fair.

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@lukehero said:

@godzilla44 said:

@rbt: BC both rounds and I like how Lukehero said stop nitpicking to you yet that's what he's been doing this whole time.

Umm. No I didn't. I actually originally said BC stomps both rounds, until I reminded myself of BW tie in comic.

Dude your whole argument with him was nitpicking on how slow Ollie's arrows are and how ineffective the canary cry was by nitpicking certain things. You can look up how fast Ollie's arrows go by looking up his bow he uses and you just ignore it.