#1 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

VS

Location: Coast City

Rules

- Morals off

- Win via KO, Kill on Incapacitation

- Combatants start 100 metres apart

- Pre-Reboot versions

#2 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know Libra, so: Is there any reason Lori doesn't just flat-out DELETE his ass? What is he, Highfather or something?

#3 Posted by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

I don't know Libra, so: Is there any reason Lori doesn't just flat-out DELETE his ass? What is he, Highfather or something?

Well, the Spectre couldn't, so there's that:

#4 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Tsssst, that's Crispus Allen Spectre. Not as powerful. Any more feats for Libra?

#5 Posted by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Tsssst, that's Crispus Allen Spectre. Not as powerful. Any more feats for Libra?

To be fair, Unbound Spectre (the one Alice effected) is generally considered to be the weakest due to the limits imposed on him by Michael Dumiurgos.

#6 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: He certainly didn't seem to be the weakest in Day of Vengeance. I'm really not a Spectre expert but I read DoV and I'm pretty sure it was specifically stated that he was more powerful unbound. Are there any experts who know what the deal is with him? But in any case, this is about to become Spectre vs. Spectre... what else has Libra done?

#7 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: He certainly didn't seem to be the weakest in Day of Vengeance. I'm really not a Spectre expert but I read DoV and I'm pretty sure it was specifically stated that he was more powerful unbound. Are there any experts who know what the deal is with him? But in any case, this is about to become Spectre vs. Spectre... what else has Libra done?

He was bloodlusted. It'd be like if Superman really went all out, he'd do a lot more damage but it wouldn't be because of any sort of power boost.

#8 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: Well if it's an attitude thing, Lori is always bloodlusted.

#9 Posted by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: He certainly didn't seem to be the weakest in Day of Vengeance. I'm really not a Spectre expert but I read DoV and I'm pretty sure it was specifically stated that he was more powerful unbound. Are there any experts who know what the deal is with him? But in any case, this is about to become Spectre vs. Spectre... what else has Libra done?

CitizenBane is pretty good at explaining Spectre's level of power during DOV.

#10 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: That wasn't my point. I was explaining why the Unbound version of Spectre seems generally more powerful, nothing was holding him back and he was bloodlusted.

#11 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Kay. @citizenbane: Do your thing dood. @decoyelite: But if it's like you said and it's a bloodlust thing, and Alice hosts herself (and maybe tosses on another powerset for fun) she's gonna have that same apocalyptic level of power. In any event it'll be more than Crispus.

#12 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually, I'll go ahead and quote him:

The unbound Spectre is not peak level or anything even remotely near it. It's his weakest form.

Originally he was just a spirit of pure rage, and destroyed indiscriminately. He would have destroyed everything in sight but Michael intervened and imposed the requirement of a human host on him, to temper his rage and exercise his full power with proper discretion. In DOV, the Spectre was said to be weakened and disoriented because it was the first time he'd been without a host in years.

- CitizenBane

It's here, btw: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/unbound-spectre-vs-100-fully-fed-galactus-685909/?page=1

#13 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Then the big question is this, since we never saw Lori's power level when she held him: When she has his power, does she count as a "host"? She technically IS a human vessel for his power so if the gloves come off....

#14 Edited by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Unbound Spectre didn't have any more power than any other version of the character. He didn't gain power from being bloodlusted he simply did more damage because then he was willing to do more. He wasn't stronger, that's the point. Your argument is that he was and that is false. If anything he was weaker.

#15 Edited by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: No, I'm off that. I accepted that he is weaker. I am now saying that if Lori absorbs him she is his "host", she is a skilled sorceress and bloodlusted anyway which would make HER the most powerful incarnation of Spectre.

#16 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@decoyelite: No, I'm off that. I accepted that he is weaker. I am now saying that if Lori absorbs him she is his "host", she is a skilled sorceress and bloodlusted anyway which would make HER the most powerful incarnation of Spectre.

Nah.

#17 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Then the big question is this, since we never saw Lori's power level when she held him: When she has his power, does she count as a "host"? She technically IS a human vessel for his power so if the gloves come off....

Well, she only possessed his power for a short while (it was too great for her to control, if I remember) and to be frank, she wasn't any good at using it, all she did was create two energy blasts that did nothing to his intangible form. She technically wasn't a host for the Spectre as her spirit wasn't bonded to Aztar's spirit.

#19 Edited by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: It's a hard feat to use honestly but she isn't really restricted to Spectre. How about a dose of bloodlusted Phantom Stranger?

#20 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: She wasn't really a host and there's absolutely no reason to think that she somehow was stronger than the regular version of Spertre if she somehow was. Being bloodlusted =/= being stronger. I don't know where you got that idea from but it's completely false.

#21 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: Not stronger but willing to use more power. I'm looking of this purely from the angle of Crispus failing to kill Libra and wondering if Lori could.

#22 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: It's a hard feat to use honestly but she isn't really restricted to Spectre. How about a dose of bloodlusted Phantom Stranger?

Phantom Stranger isn't nearly as strong as most people think.

I'd also like to point out Libra's main power is to usurp half the abilities of whoever he chooses.

#23 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Basic math would indicate that all > half so I'm assuming if you consider him to be on par with Spectre he has to have more than that going for him.

#24 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Basic math would indicate that all > half so I'm assuming if you consider him to be on par with Spectre he has to have more than that going for him.

#25 Posted by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Basic math would indicate that all > half so I'm assuming if you consider him to be on par with Spectre he has to have more than that going for him.

When he steals a person's powers, half their power is removed too. Hence the whole thing about 'balance'.

#26 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Ohhhh, okay. Does it take him any/much time to do that?

#27 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@decoyelite: Not stronger but willing to use more power. I'm looking of this purely from the angle of Crispus failing to kill Libra and wondering if Lori could.

Don't think it was an unwillingness to use power on his part, but I haven't read Final Crisis related stuff in forever.

#28 Posted by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Ohhhh, okay. Does it take him any/much time to do that?

It's pretty much instant, as far as I'm aware.

#29 Edited by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Then this is tricky and Lori will have to play it smart. If she's careful she can maybe add a second powerset without Libra knowing that she did. For instance, draining Cap. Marvel, getting halved, then adding Black Adam. No change in costume but 300% more power.

#30 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Then this is tricky and Lori will have to play it smart. If she's careful she can maybe add a second powerset without Libra knowing that she did. For instance, draining Cap. Marvel, getting halved, then adding Black Adam. No change in costume but 300% more power.

Does Black Alice generally fight smart? I've never really seen her act in such a manner.

#31 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Yes and no. She is surprisingly apt with the powersets she chooses but doesn't tend to be a great combatant. I believe that if she had prep or knowledge she could take this. In-character Alice will just grab the first powerset that springs to mind and try to smash with it. Or, possibly, Libra's own powers, which creates a paradox vortex that devours reality.

#32 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: Yes and no. She is surprisingly apt with the powersets she chooses but doesn't tend to be a great combatant. I believe that if she had prep or knowledge she could take this. In-character Alice will just grab the first powerset that springs to mind and try to smash with it. Or, possibly, Libra's own powers, which creates a paradox vortex that devours reality.

Libra's powers aren't magically based, I don't believe.

#33 Edited by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: It wouldn't be a good win tactic anyway since then it would be Grown Man vs. Teen Girl. Actually, however, I just realized, Alice has this easy. She can drain Zatanna and she actually knows how to use the backwards talk spells. Even if Libra takes his share he won't know how the magic works, he'll be beaten before he can reverse-engineer the word he wants, once he figures it out.

#34 Edited by ComicStooge (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@comicstooge: It wouldn't be a good win tactic anyway since then it would be Grown Man vs. Teen Girl. Actually, however, I just realized, Alice has this easy. She can drain Zatanna and she actually knows how to use the backwards talk spells. Even if Libra takes his share he won't know how the magic works, he'll be beaten before he can reverse-engineer the word he wants, once he figures it out.

Fair enough.

I'll bow out of this now and allow others to debate it, considering I created this thread.

#35 Edited by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Right, though they are both pretty small characters so who knows how many bites it'll get. I gotta hit the hay but I still think Lori has this, she's smarter than she seems and she's more versatile.

#36 Posted by Joygirl (15325 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump