@OmgOmgWtfWtf: So that explains the age of Ultron storyline - I thought it didn't make sense as Hulk has damaged him in the past! These can destroy adamantium but bear in mind they're created in the future, around 2099.
@Stronger: On the second page of WW3. when everyone is fighting BA, it clearly says "there are people here stronger then BA and more powerful, but none as ruthless." Spiderman has taken on entire xmen teams. Wonderman has taken on entire Avengers teams. Wonder Women took on the JLA. That means nothing except the team is holding back. Can anyone show a scan of BA beating someone who is blood lusted as he is? A worthy scan of him beating someone who is trying to kill him? Just because you can fight a group of people does NOT prove you can BEAT that group of people. Also who/what has BA destroyed that is as durable as pure adamantium?
You sir have made one of the best posts on this thread.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Guess Ultron fighting them is an outlier for that specific form then lol.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Adam did so numerous times to the JSA outside of WW3 when he was properly enraged. Ultron is also very overrated and hasn't teambusted nearly as much as you are making him out to be given he's been merked by individual members at points. Even AoU Ultron literally was shown beating a shitty Avengers team sans Hulk and killing the street tier version of the Defenders.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Adam did so numerous times to the JSA outside of WW3 when he was properly enraged. Ultron is also very overrated and hasn't teambusted nearly as much as you are making him out to be given he's been merked by individual members at points. Even AoU Ultron literally was shown beating a shitty Avengers team sans Hulk and killing the street tier version of the Defenders.
Hasn't Ultron been taken out by Wonder Man before? Shouldn't Adam be capable of doing the same or was that just an outlier?
He's been physically matched by Thing and Machine Man, Wasp, The West Coast Avengers, Darkhawk and Scarlet Witch have both beaten his ass at individual points. Hardly a outlier if it happens that many times and more. I don't recall Simon beating him by himself but they have matched in strength in the past.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Bolded, italicized above. Ultron wins.
It's not a outlier considering he was going all out and none of them were plus the fact that he's been showcased at that level only when at the peak of his rage, which he's very rarely at.
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Bolded, italicized above. Ultron wins.
It's not a outlier considering he was going all outand none of them were plus the fact that he's been showcased at that level only when at the peak of his rage, which he's very rarely at.
I meant they were jobbing as you also seem to be indicating. Which is neither here nor there as Ultron should drop BA with an encephalo ray. *shrugs*
Adam ain't gonna do much to a guy who has given entire Avengers teams a run for their money several times. Teams that included Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Wonder Man.
I know people are gonna say Adam teambusted some JL team in WW3 but either they were jobbing or it's an outlier for him. I've never seen him consistently portrayed as a full-on teambuster.
Adam did so numerous times to the JSA outside of WW3 when he was properly enraged. Ultron is also very overrated and hasn't teambusted nearly as much as you are making him out to be given he's been merked by individual members at points. Even AoU Ultron literally was shown beating a shitty Avengers team sans Hulk and killing the street tier version of the Defenders.
Like beating JSA was ever impressive. Undead Kal-L, who was getting matched by regular Superman, stomped a JSA roster than had like 10 members, Solomon Grundy was kicking their asses, even goddamn Captain Nazi stomped Alan Scott and Hawkman at the same time.
Frankly Black Adam's showing in WW3 is severely overrated. It was blatantly said there were people stronger or more powerful than Black Adam in that team.
At one point during the fight he was matched by Donna Troy.
And despite explicitly going for a kill with each attack...
He managed to kill a total amount of zero people out of the ones he hit, not even relatively squishy people like Geo-Force, Donna Troy, Atom Smasher, Firestorm, Jay Garrick and others. Martian Manhunter melted half of his damn face off with his heat vision too. And everyone fought him like they had been lobotomized. Lanterns charged him in h2h instead of enveloping him in constructs from a distance, nobody with ranged abilities used them (Dr. Light, physically a regular human woman, was one of the first people to charge Adam on foot). And let's be honest, outside of Lanterns, MMH and Steel everyone else in that crowd was a pushover, and even these guys are not that great.
Ultron, in comparison, takes on actually impressive teams way more frequently and way more successfully than Black Adam did and has better 1v1 showings against powerhouses than Adam does as well. That and he's more or less consistently invincible to damn near anything anyone can throw at him. Adam might hold his own for a while but he's not beating Ultron at all.
@trisoxoma: Regardless of the in-character dumbass actions of the group in charging in, Adam was still able to KO numerous heavyweights in the big brawl (Guy, Steel, Powergirl, Smasher, John Stewart etc) and numerous others that were either gone afterwards from the rest of the fight due to injury or whatnot as Geo-Force mentions with the first dozen attacking starting to quickly fall after their charge, which did include many of the people you mentioned. Being able to take a charge from all of those people + everyone else involved is hardly something easy or accessible to any random character. Is it better than Ultron sometimes beating up some heavyweights and needing hax for others? Probably not by the range of individuals, but at the same time he's fairly inconsistent when it comes to that avenue. It should also be mentioned that Adam only lost ultimately because he was depowered despite Zatanna and co trying to mess around with him and that was only successful because Manhunter distracted him with TP.
As for the "well he didn't kill anyone with his hits" argument, that's pretty obviously because you can't have big popular characters popping their clogs randomly with no set-up, which is why the actual kill count was 98% people no one cared about and replaced with Adam killing a whole country instead. Superboy Prime went on a supposedly huge rampage and only killed D-tier Titans with terrible durability and a massively weakened Kal-L that was brought in for that one story anyway.
I agree that Ultron wins more often than not but I find him overrated in those prospects as well.
Hasn't Ultron been taken out by Wonder Man before? Shouldn't Adam be capable of doing the same or was that just an outlier?
He's been physically matched by Thing and Machine Man, Wasp, The West Coast Avengers, Darkhawk and Scarlet Witch have both beaten his ass at individual points. Hardly a outlier if it happens that many times and more. I don't recall Simon beating him by himself but they have matched in strength in the past.
This is stupid. Ultron has walked over teams of high tiers (usually various Avengers rosters) like 16 times, and usually even when he loses it's due to some story related reason, and he still slaps them around the entire time. There are a few incarnations which are really weak, but they're the minority.
Wonder Man beat one incarnation of Ultron once. He's also been one shot by Ultron three times and failed to do anything to him while being smacked around another half dozen times. Hell he got one shot by a mind controlled Jarvis with a tiny bit of Ultron tech lol. One time when he beat a fake Ultron they realised it was fake by the fact that Wonder Man was able to beat it. I think the history between them is pretty clear on who is superior.
Scarlet Witch specifically hard counters Ultron with her powers because she can attack him internally and make his molecular rearranger malfunction, but despite that she's only beat him like, twice (one of which required the help of Thor)? You can also add in the time she helped Vision rip off the arm of an Ultron that was so weak it struggled with Iron Man individually (which the WCA then still lost to and got captured). But she's also failed to put him down at least four times and been KO'd/incapacitated by him at least two times. One of the times she tried to put him down she accidentally amped him lmao. Even the character who is specifically supposed to be good against Ultron has a bad record against him. Admittedly she does just suck in general at controlling her powers.
West Coast Avengers, I'm not sure what fight you're citing when you say they beat him. Like I said above, the one they fought in Vision and Scarlet Witch #1 they made him run out of the plane but then all got KO'd in the crash while Ultron was still conscious, and they were captured. You might be talking about the time when they fought Ultron and Alkhema and BFRd Ultron into space by using Vision as a living magnet, but I hardly see how a fight where they got smacked around the entire time and had to trick Ultron into space is a good example of anything. He also beat the WCA in one "shot" with hypnosis beams.
Machine man has one win over Ultron where he pulled out his insides while Ultron was busy fighting Thing. He also got taken out in one hit by Ultron pulling on his leg before Thing arrived then questioned if he should quit being a hero, then hit Ultron once, ran away and said he was scared of Ultron. Then he also got completely destroyed by two hits from Pymtron and ran away again.
Thing has only fought Ultron once and if you ignore the fact that he completely failed to hurt Ultron in any way and lost the fight in like 10 seconds by being mind controlled, yeah he did great. The only other comparison between the two I'm aware of is Klaw hitting Ultron with a blast that he said would have killed the Thing and it doing absolutely nothing. Well, unless you count that one comic where a reality warper from another reality summoned a bunch of heroes and villains from 616 to his reality and you can see Thing breaking apart an Ultron in one panel, but there is no real way to know what was going on there.
The Ultron wasp beat by destroying his insides was created by Klaw with a tiny bit of the Beyonder's power, and Klaw intentionally wanted to lose to the heroes. It's the same one that got dented by a single punch from Hulk. Do I really need to show the dozens of times Wasp has been completely useless against Ultron?
The Ultron Darkhawk beat actually is one of the few completely turbo-fodder incarnations who appeared once and got turned to scrap in one blast.
Taking all of this and boiling it down to "uhh yeah Ultron has lost a few times so he's inconsistent lol" is moronic.
Hasn't Ultron been taken out by Wonder Man before? Shouldn't Adam be capable of doing the same or was that just an outlier?
He's been physically matched by Thing and Machine Man, Wasp, The West Coast Avengers, Darkhawk and Scarlet Witch have both beaten his ass at individual points. Hardly a outlier if it happens that many times and more. I don't recall Simon beating him by himself but they have matched in strength in the past.
This is stupid. Ultron has walked over teams of high tiers (usually various Avengers rosters) like 16 times
Starting from here, this is hyperbolic as hell. Ultron has busted the Avengers a decent few times but through a mix of hax, tech counters and all sorts of things. He's strong as hell because of that, but at the same time he's not punching his way through a whole team because that's really not where his impressive features come from.
Wonder Man beat one incarnation of Ultron once. He's also been one shot by Ultron three times and failed to do anything to him while being smacked around another half dozen times
Of course we have to consider the fact that Wonder Man varies in strength and has gotten stronger over the years and whatnot. He's not superior to Ultron but he has scored wins in his more impressive selves.
Scarlet Witch specifically hard counters Ultron with her powers because she can attack him internally and make his molecular rearranger malfunction, but despite that she's only beat him like, twice (one of which required the help of Thor)?
That's mainly because Wanda is inconsistent as shit and tends to be either the big firepower or the crappy fodder who gets brushed aside by whoever the team is facing. It really depends on what they want her to do.
You can also add in the time she helped Vision rip off the arm of an Ultron that was so weak it struggled with Iron Man individually (which the WCA then still lost to and got captured). But she's also failed to put him down at least four times and been KO'd/incapacitated by him at least two times. One of the times she tried to put him down she accidentally amped him lmao. Even the character who is specifically supposed to be good against Ultron has a bad record against him. Admittedly she does just suck in general at controlling her powers
She does lol.
West Coast Avengers, I'm not sure what fight you're citing when you say they beat him. Like I said above, the one they fought in Vision and Scarlet Witch #1 they made him run out of the plane but then all got KO'd in the crash while Ultron was still conscious, and they were captured. You might be talking about the time when they fought Ultron and Alkhema and BFRd Ultron into space by using Vision as a living magnet, but I hardly see how a fight where they got smacked around the entire time and had to trick Ultron into space is a good example of anything. He also beat the WCA in one "shot" with hypnosis beams
Stand corrected on that front, that was probably me misremembering stuff.
Machine man has one win over Ultron where he pulled out his insides while Ultron was busy fighting Thing. He also got taken out in one hit by Ultron pulling on his leg before Thing arrived then questioned if he should quit being a hero, then hit Ultron once, ran away and said he was scared of Ultron. Then he also got completely destroyed by two hits from Pymtron and ran away again
Ultron wasn't just "busy fighting Thing" Machine Man actively had to fight him for a bit and still managed to defeat the guy despite having a Adamantium upgrade. Sure it was internal attacks, but like....it's not hard to wreck internals either, Machine Man didn't even need to stretch that far in to rip the important stuff out.
Thing has only fought Ultron once and if you ignore the fact that he completely failed to hurt Ultron in any way and lost the fight in like 10 seconds by being mind controlled, yeah he did great
Ultron also failed to do much of anything with his physicals either so ehh?
The only other comparison between the two I'm aware of is Klaw hitting Ultron with a blast that he said would have killed the Thing and it doing absolutely nothing
Which is good mind you, but Klaw is pretty wild in terms of feats, going from Quasar beating and hitting with the force of a small moon to Daredevil villain and.....getting his best sound waves tanked by Thing (Fantastic Four #56) which did knock Thing to his knees when exposed literally body to body to it, but only put him on his knees and he was still able to trash-talk. This was mid 60's Thing as well so he was chronologically far weaker than he would've been later on.
Well, unless you count that one comic where a reality warper from another reality summoned a bunch of heroes and villains from 616 to his reality and you can see Thing breaking apart an Ultron in one panel, but there is no real way to know what was going on there
That's fair given it sounds like a silly reference.
The Ultron wasp beat by destroying his insides was created by Klaw with a tiny bit of the Beyonder's power, and Klaw intentionally wanted to lose to the heroes
There's no story indication specifically that Ultron was nerfed on purpose in that manner through. Klaw didn't want to lose, the Beyonder-aspect that appeared clearly a few times here and there to manipulate things did. While someone can argue for a unconscious nerfing, it isn't backed up by anything concrete and seems more like a excuse to ignore general Secret Wars wonky power levels.
It's the same one that got dented by a single punch from Hulk
I guess Hulk's pretty strong then.
The Ultron Darkhawk beat actually is one of the few completely turbo-fodder incarnations who appeared once and got turned to scrap in one blast
There's no real indication that Ultron was super omega weak there through. It wouldn't make much sense to have him show up purely to be downplayed so wildly unless the writer wanted some mega wank.
Taking all of this and boiling it down to "uhh yeah Ultron has lost a few times so he's inconsistent lol"
Wasn't my point through. Any villain loses regardless of how good their feats is, it's just that Ultron gets pretty overhyped on the Vine as this uber planetary force when he's really not all that and isn't as nearly lethal regularly as many expect.
Stomped the Avengers (roster including Thor) in Avengers #67
One shot them again in #68
Froze the Avengers + F4 + Inhumans and would have killed them if not for Franklin in Fantastic Four #150
Stomped the Avengers (roster including Wonder Man, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision) in Avengers #161
Stomped the same roster + Thor again until Jocasta was threatened in Avengers #162
Was toying with the same roster again until Scarlet Witch had one of her two successful times beating him in Avengers #171
Was completely unharmed by the same roster minus Wonder Man and was taking out people with single blasts until he was pushed into a vat of boiling adamantium in Avengers #202
A secondary adamantium body laughed at the combined attacks of Thor + Iron Man + Firestar and then one shot them in Busiek's Avengers #21
Primary adamantium body was then walking over the same roster + Wonder Man + Scarlet Witch + Vision until he was stopped by anti-metal in Avengers #22
(No longer in chronological order because I forget how it goes from here) Was stomping a roster including Thor, Iron Man, She Hulk, Spectrum until Ant Man activated his molecular rearranger from inside in The Iron Age #1
Was stomping a roster including Thor, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision until he was tricked and BFRd in Rage of Ultron
Was stomping a roster including Thor, Iron Man, Carol and originally teleported out, then lost to a virus that required time travel to set up in Age of Ultron
Was stomping a roster including Dr Strange, She-Hulk, Iron Man while dressed up as Santa until he lost to a cookie because santa programming in Marvel Holiday Special #05
Beat the shit out of Sentry + Ares in Mighty Avengers #02
Beat the shit out of bloodlusted Sentry + Wonder Man in Mighty Avengers #05
Beat up Wonder Man, War Machine, Vision in Tony Stark: Iron Man #18
Along with Amazo made the Avengers + JL flee in JLA/Avengers #3
Along with Alkhema laughed off the West Coast Avengers while one shotting some and then left Avengers West Coast #91
Took over all the WCA in Avengers West Coast Annual 8
Final Form Ultron lol
Maybe some others. Not counting the ones where he instantly won with mind control, every single one of these fights featured him getting hit, taking 0 damage (except for female ultron who was made of some kind of liquid metal, but she just restored her form back to normal anyway), and just generally slapping around, ragdolling, or blasting teams. Acting like it's rare for him to go up against a high level team and laugh them off is just delusional.
Ultron has busted the Avengers a decent few times but through a mix of hax, tech counters and all sorts of things. He's strong as hell because of that, but at the same time he's not punching his way through a whole team because that's really not where his impressive features come from.
He usually uses tech offensively to win, yes, because it's faster. If he wanted to punch his way through the team he could, because no high tier can even scratch him, and he can and has one shot characters like Wonder Man and Thor with basic physical attacks.
Of course we have to consider the fact that Wonder Man varies in strength and has gotten stronger over the years and whatnot. He's not superior to Ultron but he has scored wins in his more impressive selves.
His win over Ultron was like his third time encountering him lol. Two of the times he was one shot was after that along with things like getting the snot beat out of him by Pymtron, getting one shot by Pymtron's tech and so on.
That's mainly because Wanda is inconsistent as shit and tends to be either the big firepower or the crappy fodder who gets brushed aside by whoever the team is facing. It really depends on what they want her to do.
Not sure what your point is? You're bringing her up as an argument against Ultron's consistency, but he comes out on top when you compare the history of the two.
Ultron wasn't just "busy fighting Thing" Machine Man actively had to fight him for a bit and still managed to defeat the guy despite having a Adamantium upgrade.
Yes he was. The entire fight is
Ultron comes into the room where Thing and MM are
Thing fights Ultron for one page
Ultron stands up after Thing hit him from behind and then Machine Man suddenly pulls out his insides
You're thinking of the earlier fight Machine Man and Ultron had, where Ultron pulled on his leg once and Machine Man ran away.
Ultron also failed to do much of anything with his physicals either so ehh?
Yes, because the fight lasted 10 seconds and he enslaved Thing. What's your point?
Which is good mind you, but Klaw is pretty wild in terms of feats, going from Quasar beating and hitting with the force of a small moon to Daredevil villain and.....getting his best sound waves tanked by Thing (Fantastic Four #56) which did knock Thing to his knees when exposed literally body to body to it, but only put him on his knees and he was still able to trash-talk. This was mid 60's Thing as well so he was chronologically far weaker than he would've been later on.
Breaking news: characters are inconsistent. I was just mentioning the only other Thing comparison as a point of reference.
There's no story indication specifically that Ultron was nerfed on purpose in that manner through. Klaw didn't want to lose,
Wrong
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378399046563397643/842642320011952148/unknown.png (still too few posts to embed images cringe website)
He literally faked a loss to Captain America because he wanted the heroes to make it past him.
There's no real indication that Ultron was super omega weak there through. It wouldn't make much sense to have him show up purely to be downplayed so wildly unless the writer wanted some mega wank.
There's no indicated that he was weak... except for the part where one blast from a mid tier turned him into a pile of scrap? Huh?
Wasn't my point through.
Someone asked you if Wonder Man beating him by shaking him is consistent, and you bring up a handful of times he lost to characters he consistently dunks on to try and claim it is. Maybe I shouldn't have said 'inconsistent' and rather 'consistently weak'.
Any villain loses regardless of how good their feats is, it's just that Ultron gets pretty overhyped on the Vine as this uber planetary force when he's really not all that and isn't as nearly lethal regularly as many expect.
@trisoxoma: Regardless of the in-character dumbass actions of the group in charging in, Adam was still able to KO numerous heavyweights in the big brawl (Guy, Steel, Powergirl, Smasher, John Stewart etc)
Power Girl wasn't KOd, Atom Smasher wasn't either (he was literally the one who caught Adam as he was falling down after he was depowered), Guy did get his ribs broken and was writhing in pain but wasn't KOd either. Don't recall seeing Steel or Stewart KOd either. Power Girl and Atom Smasher are hardly heavyweights. And everyone who did get struck got up unharmed like 2 or 3 pages anyway, so it's hard to argue anyone was KOd (besides Dr. Light) and not just dazed/stunned.
and numerous others that were either gone afterwards from the rest of the fight due to injury or whatnot as Geo-Force mentions with the first dozen attacking starting to quickly fall after their charge, which did include many of the people you mentioned.
Donna Troy wasn't downed, she took several hits and was still conscious while she was blocking Adam's strike with her sword. Geo-Force took like 3 hits and was still conscious. Jay wasn't KOd either.
Being able to take a charge from all of those people+ everyone else involved is hardly something easy or accessible to any random character.
He didn't "take charge from all those people".
Gallery
It was a charge from Power Girl + S.T.R.I.P.E. or a charge from Steel + Guy Gardner + Mr. Terrific (lol) + Wildcat (lolx2). Literally any half-decent high tier can tank the same attack without problems.
Is it better than Ultron sometimes beating up some heavyweights and needing hax for others? Probably not by the range of individuals, but at the same time he's fairly inconsistent when it comes to that avenue.
Black Adam has literally lost to some individual people in that group. Firestorm, in particular, blasted him unconscious before.
It should also be mentioned that Adam only lost ultimately because he was depowered despite Zatanna and co trying to mess around with him and that was only successful because Manhunter distracted him with TP.
Cool. Ultron usually loses because of context as well.
As for the "well he didn't kill anyone with his hits" argument, that's pretty obviously because you can't have big popular characters popping their clogs randomly with no set-up, which is why the actual kill count was 98% people no one cared about and replaced with Adam killing a whole country instead.
That's an out-of-universe explanation. In-universe he just failed to kill anyone despite hitting them full-force.
Superboy Prime went on a supposedly huge rampage and only killed D-tier Titans with terrible durability and a massively weakened Kal-L that was brought in for that one story anyway.
Prime killed several important Legionnaires, a ton of villains, including some powerful ones like Grundy and Baron Blitzkrieg, Superboy, a bunch of admittedly nameless Lanterns, was seconds away from killing Guy and Hal until he got interrupted, and was weakened as shit himself when he killed Kal-L. Black Adam only killed some Chinese Z-listers, and not even the impressive ones. Prime's body count when it comes to named characters outclasses Black Adam's grossly. Made better by the fact that Prime actually KOd or killed multiple powerhouses during his rampages (Kal-L, Grundy and Blitzkrieg with his HV, Superboy multiple times, Superman once or twice, Martian Manhunter once or twice, two Mon-Els and two Ultra-Boys, Sodam Yat with a shitton of rings, etc.) while Black Adam failed to KO anyone of that caliber (MMH was the strongest being in the crowd he fought and he was still conscious after several hits). They are incomparable.
I agree that Ultron wins more often than not but I find him overrated in those prospects as well.
More often than not? He wins every goddamn time. Black Adam can't do shit to him. Beings as strong or stronger than Adam (Thor, Wonder Man, Thing, Vision) failed to do shit to Ultron with their physicals more often than not, got manhandled plenty of times on top of that, and if he could no sell Thor's lightning then he'll do the same against Adam's.
And that's just physicals. I'm not even talking about blasts or hax that will both wreck Adam as well.
@trisoxoma: Regardless of the in-character dumbass actions of the group in charging in, Adam was still able to KO numerous heavyweights in the big brawl (Guy, Steel, Powergirl, Smasher, John Stewart etc)
Power Girl wasn't KOd, Atom Smasher wasn't either (he was literally the one who caught Adam as he was falling down after he was depowered), Guy did get his ribs broken and was writhing in pain but wasn't KOd either. Don't recall seeing Steel or Stewart KOd either. Power Girl and Atom Smasher are hardly heavyweights. And everyone who did get struck got up unharmed like 2 or 3 pages anyway, so it's hard to argue anyone was KOd (besides Dr. Light) and not just dazed/stunned
I think this is some wonky reasoning as well. We see multiple of the above on the ground, eyes closed and motionless outside of a few there who were still fighting. Geo-Force's statement comes literally a page before this is shown, so it's obvious that they were showing that many of the first dozen were dropping.
and numerous others that were either gone afterwards from the rest of the fight due to injury or whatnot as Geo-Force mentions with the first dozen attacking starting to quickly fall after their charge, which did include many of the people you mentioned.
Donna Troy wasn't downed, she took several hits and was still conscious while she was blocking Adam's strike with her sword. Geo-Force took like 3 hits and was still conscious. Jay wasn't KOd either
Being able to take a charge from all of those people+ everyone else involved is hardly something easy or accessible to any random character.
He didn't "take charge from all those people".
Gallery
It was a charge from Power Girl + S.T.R.I.P.E. or a charge from Steel + Guy Gardner + Mr. Terrific (lol) + Wildcat (lolx2). Literally any half-decent high tier can tank the same attack without problems
It was clear that everyone on that first dozen were attacking him around the same time through, given they were also effected by his punches equally as the front-line lads. It's also clear that Adam had been brawling with this group + JSA off-panel as well until everyone managed to gang up on him.
Is it better than Ultron sometimes beating up some heavyweights and needing hax for others? Probably not by the range of individuals, but at the same time he's fairly inconsistent when it comes to that avenue.
Black Adam has literally lost to some individual people in that group. Firestorm, in particular, blasted him unconscious before
That's also true.
It should also be mentioned that Adam only lost ultimately because he was depowered despite Zatanna and co trying to mess around with him and that was only successful because Manhunter distracted him with TP.
Cool. Ultron usually loses because of context as well
As for the "well he didn't kill anyone with his hits" argument, that's pretty obviously because you can't have big popular characters popping their clogs randomly with no set-up, which is why the actual kill count was 98% people no one cared about and replaced with Adam killing a whole country instead.
That's an out-of-universe explanation. In-universe he just failed to kill anyone despite hitting them full-force
But that's why that was the case through? You can't have the likes of Manhunter or fairly popular characters all dying at once. It cheapens the impact of the actual deaths during the arc and wouldn't get past any editorial. Sure, in-universe Adam just seemed to not get the job done there, but there's a obvious reason why that was the case.
Superboy Prime went on a supposedly huge rampage and only killed D-tier Titans with terrible durability and a massively weakened Kal-L that was brought in for that one story anyway.
Prime killed several important Legionnaires, a ton of villains, including some powerful ones like Grundy and Baron Blitzkrieg, Superboy, a bunch of admittedly nameless Lanterns, was seconds away from killing Guy and Hal until he got interrupted, and was weakened as shit himself when he killed Kal-L
I was discussing his initial run in Infinite Crisis given how that was the one with the biggest stakes but sure. The point is that for such a big rampage, he did next to nothing in terms of a kill-count.
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