@jashro44: I guess it wasn't Indestructible Hulk yet, neither is Hulk from Hickman's Avengers 1,2 and 3. IIRC there a time skip when those issues pass and Indestructible Hulk begins. Since after that Hulk gets it's armor, an armor he gets right away when he enters Shield.
And i don't considered PIS that Wolverine can hurt Hulk, he can hurt Thanos after all, so why stopping at Hulk? But what is PIS is Wolverine beating him afterwards, pure bs.
I suppose. All though does the armor actually do anything? I know it helped him survive absolute zero but I don't think it increases his stats. It also helped him breathe under water but hulk has adapted to fight underwater before so not sure why that feature is required.
I agree wolverine hurting hulk isn't PIS I think him putting him down like that is. Hulks healing factor was down played. I wouldn't say wolverine beat him because to be fair it was a cheap shot. Still not the best showing for hulk.
@ghostravage: Because Hulk has a healing factor that heals himself virtually instantaneously. The damage that happened was still heat resistant and add in the healing factor he can come out of it looking completely unscathed. The damage is healing as fast as it happens. How come wolverine can get hit by brick characters and be rendered unconscious without any damage to his face or body being shown? I don't think anyone is attributing his skin to his durability. It's the hf. The damage is getting repaired almost as fast as it happens. There have been descriptions like this in the past so why I guess it needs to be referenced or something for you is beyond me just because of the length of time he hasn't been damaged. I just find that point reaching.
@jashro44: I didn't meant the armor as a factor, but as the visible distinction between past and present Hulk. IIRC, Banner disappeared for quite a long time, as explained by Tony in Indestructible Hulk #2, and that was the first time they saw each other again. Which makes me think the instance in Mars with the Avengers happened quite a time ago before Banner appeared again.
That transition may have done some changes on Hulk, Banner was trying to destroy him after all, but it's just a theory though.
@god_spawn: Im not reaching man, im just going from what i've seen about this Hulk. He hasn't been hurt as far as i know, taking blows and heat vision from Hyperion unphased as well as attacks that sent him into orbit and big explosions in Infinity.
And about Wolverine, how can you explain the beating he received by Hulk in World War Hulk: X-Men #2. Even after a quite extended period of time, Wolverine is reincorporated to the fight after receiving the beating of his life and he wasn't healed completely, claimed by Xavier himself.
The regeneration factor doesn't act as fast as you're suggesting. If the attacks is continuous like the one Mad Thinker used, he would have been damaged. I don't think only his healing factor overpowered an attack of that magnitude. Durability MUST have been on play in order to his healing factor to act, a healing factor that hasn't been showed in the series more than once on panel and it wasn't a heat/blunt/cutting attack at all, more like time attack, that of course if rejuvenating your cells counts as a regeneration feat.
I could agree his healing factor had something to do (not so much though), but being nigh harmless goes directly to durability.
@jashro44: I didn't meant the armor as a factor, but as the visible distinction between past and present Hulk. IIRC, Banner disappeared for quite a long time, as explained by Tony in Indestructible Hulk #2, and that was the first time they saw each other again. Which makes me think the instance in Mars with the Avengers happened quite a time ago before Banner appeared again.
That transition may have done some changes on Hulk, Banner was trying to destroy him after all, but it's just a theory though.
I was under the impression that hulk rejoined the avengers after Banner and hulk reunited. I mean weren't bonded in AVX, where Tony never had the black armor, yet in Hickmans avengers he has the black and gold armor?
All though as for Banner trying to destroy hulk I am assuming you are referring to aarons run. This might sound weird but I don't know if his run is in continuity anymore. IIRC in his conversation with Maria Hill in indestructible hulk #1 Banner mentions he was looking for a cure for hulk and then realized he was uncureable yet in Aarons run Banner did find a cure for hulk. Maybe I am misremembering something but I don't know. Either its been retconned or Mark Waid made a mistake (Or I am forgetting something).
@jashro44: He must rejoined the Avengers after Aaron's run. However, Hulk after Avengers #3 had the same armor his using in Indestructible Hulk issues, an armor he got in the very second issue of that series, an armor visible in Secret Avengers, Avengers, Indestructible Hulk and some other runs, like Superior Spiderman Team Up #1.
And he actually had his Gold and Black armor in AvX since it's visible in AvX #7 (i'll edit the post with scans after i change of computer)
Im not referring to that but to the conversation he had with Tony that Hulk is indeed indestructible in Indestructible Hulk #2. It's actually the first reference to his current title in the whole series.
In Aaron's Run he didn't find a cure to Hulk, Hulk actually dumped Banner out of his mind, resulting in a evil clone that was dying because it lacked of Hulk. If he would've found a cure, Hulk wouldn't be existing nowadays, nor Aaron's run wouldn't have a Hulk in the first place. What actually happened was that Hulk recur to Dr. Doom for a lobotomy ending in exiling Banner from Hulk's head, ending in a totally functional and smart Hulk that was packing the same intellect from Pak's run and Fear Itself. There's no cure to Hulk. Either Banner dies or nothing happens.
Im not reaching man, im just going from what i've seen about this Hulk. He hasn't been hurt as far as i know, taking blows and heat vision from Hyperion unphased as well as attacks that sent him into orbit and big explosions in Infinity.
Which isn't just due to his durability, also his healing factor.
And about Wolverine, how can you explain the beating he received by Hulk in World War Hulk: X-Men #2. Even after a quite extended period of time, Wolverine is reincorporated to the fight after receiving the beating of his life and he wasn't healed completely, claimed by Xavier himself.
You're missing the point, again. He had little to no superficial damage, save for some blood flying out his mouth and nose and a bruise on his cheek. That is my point. The damage soak ability and lack of visible damage isn't based on his durability, but his healing factor. Unlike Hulk who has a high end healing factor and superhuman durability.
The regeneration factor doesn't act as fast as you're suggesting. If the attacks is continuous like the one Mad Thinker used, he would have been damaged. I don't think only his healing factor overpowered an attack of that magnitude. Durability MUST have been on play in order to his healing factor to act, a healing factor that hasn't been showed in the series more than once on panel and it wasn't a heat/blunt/cutting attack at all, more like time attack, that of course if rejuvenating your cells counts as a regeneration feat.
I'm not totally discounting the durability. I've already mentioned this. When he gets damaged he starts to heal. It's not after the damage is done. Even Wolverine has stated Hulk heals so fast he originally thought he couldn't cut him. Hulk was healing holes blown through his chest by Zom Strange rapidly. When Vector got him near a damn skeleton, he regrew everything back in what, 3-4 panels? When Cyclops was ripping the skin off of Hulk, the very next panel after Kitty saved him, he had no damage from Cyke shown. The only visible damage was Wolverine cutting him, and even those cuts were gone in 2 panels. If you actually even look at the panels when he is getting attacked by the Mad Thinker before Hulk tears him apart, there isn't much focus on his chest except for the initial blast and barely another glimpse in another panel at all where the attack is at. It's kind of hard to tell. It's a heat resistant feat and his HF throws in more resistance.
I could agree his healing factor had something to do (not so much though), but being nigh harmless goes directly to durability.
His healing factor plays apart in it whether you want to agree with it or not. It's a stable of the Hulk and doesn't need to be constantly mentioned. The fact Hulk heals as fast as he does in conjunction with his durability just adds to his already impressive damage soak. It keeps him pristine.
At this point I'm done. I'm just repeating myself and I don't even feel like you're even paying attention to my posts. You're just picking out whatever you. I'll be fine with agreeing to disagree, but I doubt I'm gonna reply back to you about this.
@god_spawn: I don't know how am i making you repeat yourself if by now your combining both Durability and healing factor into the equation instead of only the Regeneration how you were suggesting before...
It's not a durability feat but as I already mentioned, once again doing this with you, that if someone like wolverine can resist and orbital fall due to his healing, hulk having a better healing factor and a much higher base durability coming out of it without too much damage makes sense.
You were obviously attributing the feat to his regeneration factor comparing him to Wolverine resisting orbital re-entry due to his healing factor when all im saying it's the feat also applies for Durability. (Note: You mentioned his durability as well but still claimed it was due to his Regeneration Factor)
It is now we're agreeing on the fact both attributes played along. But going but what has been showed, and how his durability is mentioned much more often than any other of his attributes makes me think the very first issue of the series was meant to show his durability. But that's about it.
Im sorry if you felt you were repeating yourself, when looking at the arguments, i managed to reach an agreement point that didn't exist at first.
@jashro44: He must rejoined the Avengers after Aaron's run. However, Hulk after Avengers #3 had the same armor his using in Indestructible Hulk issues, an armor he got in the very second issue of that series, an armor visible in Secret Avengers, Avengers, Indestructible Hulk and some other runs, like Superior Spiderman Team Up #1.
And he actually had his Gold and Black armor in AvX since it's visible in AvX #7 (i'll edit the post with scans after i change of computer)
Im not referring to that but to the conversation he had with Tony that Hulk is indeed indestructible in Indestructible Hulk #2. It's actually the first reference to his current title in the whole series.
In Aaron's Run he didn't find a cure to Hulk, Hulk actually dumped Banner out of his mind, resulting in a evil clone that was dying because it lacked of Hulk. If he would've found a cure, Hulk wouldn't be existing nowadays, nor Aaron's run wouldn't have a Hulk in the first place. What actually happened was that Hulk recur to Dr. Doom for a lobotomy ending in exiling Banner from Hulk's head, ending in a totally functional and smart Hulk that was packing the same intellect from Pak's run and Fear Itself. There's no cure to Hulk. Either Banner dies or nothing happens.
All right
What issue was this stated in (about Aarons run)? I must have seriously misread something or missed something...I thought in incredible hulk issue 12 of his run Banner stated he found a cure and decided not to use the cure because he needed the hulk to keep him sane?
@jashro44: How can Aaron's Run have Incredible Hulk #12 if there are only 8 issues as far as i know... 1 at the end of Fear Itself and 1-7 in Incredible Hulk issues? Now you got me confused.
But the story arc happens after fear itself, Hulk is tired from being used by Banner and recurs to Doom for a lobotomy, Doom creates a clone and put Banner's conscious in it. Later Banner becomes insane after injecting himself with Gamma failing and creating a tumor in his head.
@jashro44: How can Aaron's Run have Incredible Hulk #12 if there are only 8 issues as far as i know... 1 at the end of Fear Itself and 1-7 in Incredible Hulk issues? Now you got me confused.
But the story arc happens after fear itself, Hulk is tired from being used by Banner and recurs to Doom for a lobotomy, Doom creates a clone and put Banner's conscious in it. Later Banner becomes insane after injecting himself with Gamma failing and creating a tumor in his head.
No there are more then 8 issues.
This is the issue I was talking about:
IIRC I think it was at the end of this issue Banner was threatening to use a cure on hulk. In issue 13 he decides not to cure the hulk.
@jashro44: Wow, i don't recall this, as far as i know, Hulk Asunder, which is Aaron's run goes from Issue #1 to #7.1, going by Marvel's page and wiki's, but it seem you're right, it says his run lasted 15 issues, but i don't recall Hulk having a cure after all.
BTW: Is that issue involving Thing and Wolverine fighting against him?
@jashro44: Wow, i don't recall this, as far as i know, Hulk Asunder, which is Aaron's run goes from Issue #1 to #7.1, going by Marvel's page and wiki's, but it seem you're right, it says his run lasted 15 issues, but i don't recall Hulk having a cure after all.
BTW: Is that issue involving Thing and Wolverine fighting against him?
Yea in that issue wolverine and the thing try to apprehend hulk who is being drugged to be weaker instead of stronger.
@jashro44: Yeah, i got those scans. Anyway, I've found the other issues, going to buy them and i'll be back to you in maybe 4-5 d :P. Thanks for the clarification.
@jashro44: Yeah, i got those scans. Anyway, I've found the other issues, going to buy them and i'll be back to you in maybe 4-5 d :P. Thanks for the clarification.
@jashro44: Yes, i don't know how i could miss it, i did have the issues, but never read it. Anyway, the story is contradictory to Indestructible Hulk. Because it literally starts with Banner saying he couldn't find a cure for Hulk...
I mean, he was using top notch breakthroughs and he couldn't find a cure in more than a month, but in Aaron's run he did find a cure in 3 weeks? Not to mention, in Indestructible Hulk he mentions he's incurable, at least with the technology that exists right now, so unless Aaron's run happens in the future, which then would fall outside the continuity, it's too contradictory with Hulk's history in general.
What i could assume is Banner didn't find a cure for Hulk, just another Hulkbuster toxin or whatever, and that he only used the supposed "cure" just to get Hulk's attention and make the alliance and not that he actually found the cure, because, i mean, how did he know he found it when he never tried it on Hulk?
This scene corroborates this...
This is Banner talking about all the things he's been through, and he says it's time to take control, which happens at the end of the run.
Anyway, his entire run sucked in both artwork (sometimes) and plot. So i wouldn't take it too seriously.
Why did nobody reference the old Grey Hulk vs Grey Gargoyle fight?
Banner got turned to stone, transformed at dusk and then pretty much resisted the polymorph after a short period of time. Even if that type of attack worked on current Hulk in the first place, it probably wouldn't last long at all.. If Black Adam isn't bringing more to the table, it's curtains.
@jashro44: Yes, i don't know how i could miss it, i did have the issues, but never read it. Anyway, the story is contradictory to Indestructible Hulk. Because it literally starts with Banner saying he couldn't find a cure for Hulk...
I mean, he was using top notch breakthroughs and he couldn't find a cure in more than a month, but in Aaron's run he did find a cure in 3 weeks? Not to mention, in Indestructible Hulk he mentions he's incurable, at least with the technology that exists right now, so unless Aaron's run happens in the future, which then would fall outside the continuity, it's too contradictory with Hulk's history in general.
What i could assume is Banner didn't find a cure for Hulk, just another Hulkbuster toxin or whatever, and that he only used the supposed "cure" just to get Hulk's attention and make the alliance and not that he actually found the cure, because, i mean, how did he know he found it when he never tried it on Hulk?
This scene corroborates this...
This is Banner talking about all the things he's been through, and he says it's time to take control, which happens at the end of the run.
Anyway, his entire run sucked in both artwork (sometimes) and plot. So i wouldn't take it too seriously.
After Banner and Hulk remerged in "Asunder", the first seven issues of Jason Aaron's short run on Hulk, Banner had to gather materials to make a cure for the hulked-out animals that Doctor Doom's robots were planning to use as weapons.
And yeah, Banner never intended to use the hulk-buster cure for Hulk. Banner said so himself. Indestructible Hulk made reference to the previous story arcs, "Asunder" and "Stay Angry".
And yeah, there is a difference between a hulk and the original Hulk.
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