Morals off for team and give Thor his space suit...and you have a good fight....other than that, Majestic solos!
@Buckshot said:
I don't really see what "space armor" added, maybe I missed something. He traded a hit with Surfer but neither one seemed to do more damage to the other. He zoomed past surfer, but to me that just seemed like Surfer expected to hit him head on and Thor went past him for the bigger target, not like he was actually any faster. Thor smacking Galactus for a loop was pretty cool, but the whole point of the fight was that Odin and Galactus are wearing each other down and their pawns (Thor is one of them) are distractions to get in and mess the other up so they can really win, and Thor did just that. Thor hit Galactus, but I think Odin was doing most of the work. Besides, it didn't seem like it affected Galactus too much since he goes on to seemingly trump Odin in the battle they're having after he gets hit. As for how Surfer and Thor took smacking into the planet, I didn't think that was what Surfer was talking about. I thought he was talking about some sort of reverberation from what he did to Galactus. That's not explicitly stated, I know, but I find it much easier to believe that is what affected surfer than that it was because of him crashing onto a planet. The guy has stood in suns unharmed, I don't really expect him crashing to hurt him. And the smashing that came after didn't seem to phase Surfer much to me. Surfer was on his butt, but I saw no damage on him. There was actually less visible damage than when Thor headbutted him without the armor earlier. Basically it just didn't seem like the armor did anything. He traded equal damage with Surfer, hit a distracted Galactus but didn't stop him from doing what he was doing, and didn't do any visible damage to Surfer after they crashed on the planet. And during all of this, Thor was looking to bust some heads while Surfer didn't seem to be as bloodthirsty (actually seemed to be talking more than fighting).
I said that in another thread and I still don't see what the space armor added to his power.
Well I would like to take Black Adam and Thor here. I would like to think that Thor's use of the Hammer would be as it was in the 1970's and he could use the Power of the Hammer to Shrink Majestic and put him in a Glass Ball like he did Hyperion. I would like to think Black Adam could hold his own against Majestic temporarily at least. But even though I would like to think these things. I really don't think so. :P
I was actually thinking the Stellar Armor is a proper protection on Thor. Like a mini destroyer forged in Asgard. Thor was injured before the fight, and almost broke his own head while headbutting Surfer. With armor he bullets Galactus and takes a massive tackle to mars without flinching and starts attacking and dominating the Surfer at once....I dont know about Speed and Strength. Thor is already super fast and strong!
@Buckshot: I was actually thinking the Stellar Armor is a proper protection on Thor. Like a mini destroyer forged in Asgard. Thor was injured before the fight, and almost broke his own head while headbutting Surfer. With armor he bullets Galactus and takes a massive tackle to mars without flinching and starts attacking and dominating the Surfer at once....I dont know about Speed and Strength. Thor is already super fast and strong!
Thor's injury was barely affecting him (if it was at all), and I think Thor making himself bleed after denting Surfer's head is legitimate and nothing to indicate a lack defense, so it's not like his defense was down before putting it on and then suddenly became greater. He didn't do anything he couldn't do before after he put it on. Him slamming into Galactus' head and rocking it back isn't new. He did the exact same thing in Avengers 5 and he did that without the help of Odin simultaneously attacking Galactus. Him tackling Surfer into a planet isn't a huge showing of his durability and really shouldn't have been an issue for Surfer either. As for "dominating the Surfer", that's a stress. Surfer seemed more interested in talking than fighting back and Thor actually did less visible damage there than when he fought him before. At this point, the stellar armor hasn't added much in the way of power or defense.
Well I would like to take Black Adam and Thor here. I would like to think that Thor's use of the Hammer would be as it was in the 1970's and he could use the Power of the Hammer to Shrink Majestic and put him in a Glass Ball like he did Hyperion. I would like to think Black Adam could hold his own against Majestic temporarily at least. But even though I would like to think these things. I really don't think so. :P
Well I would like to take Black Adam and Thor here. I would like to think that Thor's use of the Hammer would be as it was in the 1970's and he could use the Power of the Hammer to Shrink Majestic and put him in a Glass Ball like he did Hyperion. I would like to think Black Adam could hold his own against Majestic temporarily at least. But even though I would like to think these things. I really don't think so. :P
This is not the first time someone has suggested shrinking Majestic. I always think of how much more dangerous that would make him. He'd be a super intelligent, planet-busting bullet flying FTL with tiny swords that can cut through anything...with star-generating laser vision.
Well I would like to take Black Adam and Thor here. I would like to think that Thor's use of the Hammer would be as it was in the 1970's and he could use the Power of the Hammer to Shrink Majestic and put him in a Glass Ball like he did Hyperion. I would like to think Black Adam could hold his own against Majestic temporarily at least. But even though I would like to think these things. I really don't think so. :P
This is not the first time someone has suggested shrinking Majestic. I always think of how much more dangerous that would make him. He'd be a super intelligent, planet-busting bullet flying FTL with tiny swords that can cut through anything...with star-generating laser vision.
Tiny majestics with those blades would give you nasty paper cuts...or
Well I would like to take Black Adam and Thor here. I would like to think that Thor's use of the Hammer would be as it was in the 1970's and he could use the Power of the Hammer to Shrink Majestic and put him in a Glass Ball like he did Hyperion. I would like to think Black Adam could hold his own against Majestic temporarily at least. But even though I would like to think these things. I really don't think so. :P
This is not the first time someone has suggested shrinking Majestic. I always think of how much more dangerous that would make him. He'd be a super intelligent, planet-busting bullet flying FTL with tiny swords that can cut through anything...with star-generating laser vision.
I am willing to bet that the first time this was suggested it was done by me. I remember saying this before in another thread that included Majestic and Thor.
@Buckshot: I was actually thinking the Stellar Armor is a proper protection on Thor. Like a mini destroyer forged in Asgard. Thor was injured before the fight, and almost broke his own head while headbutting Surfer. With armor he bullets Galactus and takes a massive tackle to mars without flinching and starts attacking and dominating the Surfer at once....I dont know about Speed and Strength. Thor is already super fast and strong!
Thor's injury was barely affecting him (if it was at all), and I think Thor making himself bleed after denting Surfer's head is legitimate and nothing to indicate a lack defense, so it's not like his defense was down before putting it on and then suddenly became greater. He didn't do anything he couldn't do before after he put it on. Him slamming into Galactus' head and rocking it back isn't new. He did the exact same thing in Avengers 5 and he did that without the help of Odin simultaneously attacking Galactus. Him tackling Surfer into a planet isn't a huge showing of his durability and really shouldn't have been an issue for Surfer either. As for "dominating the Surfer", that's a stress. Surfer seemed more interested in talking than fighting back and Thor actually did less visible damage there than when he fought him before. At this point, the stellar armor hasn't added much in the way of power or defense.
I agree, his injury didn't seem to slow him down much if at all. The injury was also suffered by the world tree, this may add some PIS to the Asgardian side in the outcome of this encounter.
I think that the "injury" may actually be making him more powerful. It also has not yet been shown what Odin has been using the world tree seed for yet, we know he has it and I doubt its just sitting in the armory, this may also play a role in the way of PIS. That's just speculation on my part though, we will have to see what happens.
It is a "Thor" comic so the writers won't simply let Thor get smashed by Surfer. The next issue is round two so the battle may sway in the favor of the SS next time around.
As far as the suit, it has not granted him any additional abilities as of yet that we have not yet seen Thor use in the past
@CapitolPunishment: It's not PIS if the story provides a legitimate reason for something. PIS is Thor forgetting how to fly and falling into lava. It's not PIS if earlier in the story something happened that actually made him forget how to fly. PIS isn't just any time characters don't act at their best.
It's not PIS if the story provides a legitimate reason for something.
First off, Re-read my post, i have yet to say anything in that story was PIS.
PIS is Thor forgetting how to fly and falling into lava.
That would be writer induced stupidity, not providing an explanation as to why he lost his ability to fly, but thanks.
It's not PIS if earlier in the story something happened that actually made him forget how to fly.
If it is a legitimate reason, yes. If not than it is the very definition of PIS, Plot induced stupidity. You would know, you wrote the rules for god sake.
PIS isn't just any time characters don't act at their best.
Duh..
If Thor traveled down to the root of the world tree to thinking it would be advantageous to himself in preparation to battle the Silver Surfer and Galactus, that would be perfectly fine as part of the story. If he traveled down there to retrieve a seed and got a scratch from a "magical root" that unknowingly later provided him the ability to easily take down characters that he normally has allot of trouble with or outright gets stomped by, that would indeed be PIS.
The story is still ongoing and we have yet to see any of this happen, as I said before I have yet to see PIS in the plot of the story. All I said is that there may be.
But thank you for going on a tirade in telling me what the definitions of some abbreviations mean, even if your examples were horribly wrong.
@CapitolPunishment: lmao, you think 2 lines is a tirade? that's hilarious. anyway, just to clarify, I didn't say you said anything was PIS. I made no specific claims about your statement. I was commenting on what you were suggesting could create PIS in the future and the idea of PIS in general.
As for the difference between PIS and WIS, I don't see one. Plot induced stupidity is a character acting a certain way (usually neglecting their abilities, hence "stupidity") for no reason to suit the plot. Given that the writer controls the plot (even in situations where the story is set by higher ups, they still control much of the details as to how exactly things happen), it makes sense to me that all instances of plot causing a character to act out of character come from the writer, since the writer controls the unfolding of the plot, making all PIS also WIS. So unless you're making some distinction between WIS and PIS that I don't see, then your statement (about mine being an example of WIS) is in line with mine.
You give an example of what would be PIS, Thor getting a power up from the world tree injury, but that wouldn't be PIS because a character getting more powerful is pretty much the opposite of PIS, and equally important, if there's a clear reason, it's not solely for the sake of plot, but also because of that other reason. Thor getting a power up from something he did, whether he did it intentionally or not and new about it or not, and going on to beat someone up, is not PIS. It's only PIS if he goes around beating people up that he normally can't with no power up. Also, at one point we said the same thing (I said "it's not PIS if the story provides a legitimate reason for something" and then you say "if it is a legitimate reason, [it is not PIS]") so you just confuse me.
I'm not sure where the sarcastic attitude comes from either. It's not like my post was any sort of condescension or attack that would require you to be defensive in your response. I imagine you took it the wrong way or are just way too sensitive.
Either one gives him a decent fight. He's not taking down both of them.
I disagree. I don't think Thor gives him a decent fight because of the huge speed advantage and then the skill advantage and Majestic's ability to one-shot with his swords. I think Black Adam gives him a better fight because he can compete speed-wise, but he still goes down because of Majestic's weaponry and greater fighting skill. I think of it similar to one really skilled fighter with his weapon of choice against two moderately skilled enemies (one unarmed and one armed but incredibly slow).
Either one gives him a decent fight. He's not taking down both of them.
I disagree. I don't think Thor gives him a decent fight because of the huge speed advantage and then the skill advantage and Majestic's ability to one-shot with his swords. I think Black Adam gives him a better fight because he can compete speed-wise, but he still goes down because of Majestic's weaponry and greater fighting skill. I think of it similar to one really skilled fighter with his weapon of choice against two moderately skilled enemies (one unarmed and one armed but incredibly slow).
Hmmmm, interesting thoughts. Before we start comparing the two, Thor is quite a skilled fighter in weaponry also, whether they are in the same league is another story, and yeah, i'd say that Maj has the upper hand in that, but no so much that it makes Thor useless against him, as both combatants are thousands of years old and experienced in fighting, be it h2h or weaponry (Thor also has wielded swords). People keep saying and thinking that Thor can't handle speed? Like he's never fought beings with speed before? He can react quite well, and has alot of abstract powers from Mjolnir to compensate. Whether he wins or not against Majestic, is up for debate, but, as I was saying, I think it's a good enough fight on it's own, even if Thor goes down, throw in BA, and Majestic goes down, imo.
Black Adam has way too many Gods backing him to lose to this Superman clone. I'll bet Thor holds Majestic down while Adam pounds him out, it aint like Majestic is going to fight as well as he does in his comics when these two are pressuring him.
Either one gives him a decent fight. He's not taking down both of them.
I disagree. I don't think Thor gives him a decent fight because of the huge speed advantage and then the skill advantage and Majestic's ability to one-shot with his swords. I think Black Adam gives him a better fight because he can compete speed-wise, but he still goes down because of Majestic's weaponry and greater fighting skill. I think of it similar to one really skilled fighter with his weapon of choice against two moderately skilled enemies (one unarmed and one armed but incredibly slow).
They give him a good fight. But if he gets the creation blades the lose bad.
Even his other blades are good enough to cut through people of his level of durability fairly easily.
@lordraiden said:
So, Majestic is almost unbeatable with these creation blades? Sounds a bit like Superman with The Sword of Superman lol
Majestic is a master swordsman and would be wielding two swords that can cut through anything and wouldn't be afraid to use them.
@Baltoro said:
Black Adam has way too many Gods backing him to lose to this Superman clone. I'll bet Thor holds Majestic down while Adam pounds him out, it aint like Majestic is going to fight as well as he does in his comics when these two are pressuring him.
Thor's not fast enough to hold him down and Majestic is tough enough to take Adam's hits anyway. Why wouldn't Majestic fight as well when he's faster than Thor and has shown he can fight at the speed both he and Black Adam can move at? It's going to be hard for Thor to pressure him when he's so slow he'd be a statue to the other two as they fight.
@lordraiden said:
So who's to say with two powerfull opponents on him can't use that blade on him? Are they standard equip?
Majestic cancelled his speed in a fight with three members of the Skein (think Coda with no sense of humor, so thousands of years of sword fighting experience) and he still disarmed one and used her sword to kill the second and disarm the third after a brief exchange (and he did that for fun, smiling the whole time). He's mad skilled with a blade and I see no reason he couldn't use his swords on them when he can easily beat more skilled sword fighters at their own game.
@lordraiden said:
@Buckshot said:
@lordraiden said:
Either one gives him a decent fight. He's not taking down both of them.
I disagree. I don't think Thor gives him a decent fight because of the huge speed advantage and then the skill advantage and Majestic's ability to one-shot with his swords. I think Black Adam gives him a better fight because he can compete speed-wise, but he still goes down because of Majestic's weaponry and greater fighting skill. I think of it similar to one really skilled fighter with his weapon of choice against two moderately skilled enemies (one unarmed and one armed but incredibly slow).
Hmmmm, interesting thoughts. Before we start comparing the two, Thor is quite a skilled fighter in weaponry also, whether they are in the same league is another story, and yeah, i'd say that Maj has the upper hand in that, but no so much that it makes Thor useless against him, as both combatants are thousands of years old and experienced in fighting, be it h2h or weaponry (Thor also has wielded swords). People keep saying and thinking that Thor can't handle speed? Like he's never fought beings with speed before? He can react quite well, and has alot of abstract powers from Mjolnir to compensate. Whether he wins or not against Majestic, is up for debate, but, as I was saying, I think it's a good enough fight on it's own, even if Thor goes down, throw in BA, and Majestic goes down, imo.
They may both be thousands of years old, but Majestic actually trained his skills that whole time. Thor wins all his fights by just being more powerful. Majestic was trained for thousands of years under the best warrior on his planet and actually used that every day in various wars and in training against people of his power level and skill level. Majestic wins most fights based on his power as well, but he's also shown that his skills are still sharp as ever and that he still practices and works out daily. Thor may have used a sword, but you can point directly to majestic's skill. Thousands of years training to be a warlord (Zealot compared a fanboy's wet dream of Batman to Majestic in skill) and training under the best warrior his galaxy (and several others) had ever seen cement his background, and clear examples of his skill against opponents (pwning the Skein, commenting on his battle training multiple times, displayed of the much-loved nerve strikes, etc) in current battles plus evidence that he still trains show that it's not just old stuff he never calls upon. Thor has fought beings with speed, but they hardly if ever use their full speed against him. Better than just saying that he has fought people who are fast would be showing that he himself is as fast as Majestic, but that case can't be made because Majestic is faster and a couple examples of Thor's speed from decades ago that don't measure up anyway don't change that. I think Thor loses to Majestic because Majestic is fast enough to put a blade into his face before he can stop it. Mjolnir is versatile, but even if Thor were fast enough to use it, he simply doesn't use it the way he should. He blasts energy (which majestic can tank, block or dodge effortlessly) or just hits with it. Adding in someone with even less skill and who is totally unarmed doesn't help very much. Black Adam has no answer for Majestic simply running him through. Majestic could kill either of them with one strike and he's skilled enough to stab Black Adam and even if skill is a question with Thor, he's more than fast enough. If he were unarmed for this fight Black Adam might hold him off for long enough for Thor to be useful...maybe. That might result in an interesting fight.
Either one gives him a decent fight. He's not taking down both of them.
I disagree. I don't think Thor gives him a decent fight because of the huge speed advantage and then the skill advantage and Majestic's ability to one-shot with his swords. I think Black Adam gives him a better fight because he can compete speed-wise, but he still goes down because of Majestic's weaponry and greater fighting skill. I think of it similar to one really skilled fighter with his weapon of choice against two moderately skilled enemies (one unarmed and one armed but incredibly slow).
i can agree with this.
@Thepowercosmic: i'm missing a few issues from world's end but i'm pretty sure majestic has the creation blades at his disposal now. unless nemesis took them back after she literally raped him, or something else happened that i missed.
lmao, you think 2 lines is a tirade? that's hilarious. anyway, just to clarify, I didn't say you said anything was PIS. I made no specific claims about your statement. I was commenting on what you were suggesting could create PIS in the future and the idea of PIS in general.
No, I think writing a paragraph telling me what the definition of PIS is as opposed to the fact that I was agreeing with you on the debated subject.. Frankly, if you felt the need to correct me on what you think the definition of PIS is it could have been done in a few short words, not with a bunch of bad examples while ignoring the rest of my post.
I generally agree with you in most subjects and the post I made was doing so. I also added in the post what I think is a possibility of the outcome of that arc and that if Thor some how got a huge and quite sudden power-up after being "injured" by a magic root it would be PIS. Plot induced stupidity ; the plot being the world tree; a power-up from a scratch from its root, the stupidity. I believe that would be PIS because he did not purposely get scratched by the root for a power-up and furthermore there was no earlier indication of his power level going up before fighting with the surfer, it was quite the opposite in fact.
As for the difference between PIS and WIS, I don't see one.
I do. Here is a hypothetical example: If Iron Man's suit shuts down because of a random solar flare causing EM damage to it and he cannot then help his friends who desperately need him in battle, that would be PIS. Because in that case the Plot would be focusing on his other team members that are overpowered and now must overcome a foe/s that is/are out of there league.
Plot induced stupidity is a character acting a certain way (usually neglecting their abilities, hence "stupidity") for no reason to suit the plot. Given that the writer controls the plot (even in situations where the story is set by higher ups, they still control much of the details as to how exactly things happen), it makes sense to me that all instances of plot causing a character to act out of character come from the writer, since the writer controls the unfolding of the plot, making all PIS also WIS. So unless you're making some distinction between WIS and PIS that I don't see, then your statement (about mine being an example of WIS) is in line with mine.
In that same hypothetical example WIS would be Tony forgetting to recharge his suit before going out to help his friends, which in character and written properly he would never do. So yes, there is a distinction between the two.
That is why both terms are coined.
You give an example of what would be PIS, Thor getting a power up from the world tree injury, but that wouldn't be PIS because a character getting more powerful is pretty much the opposite of PIS, and equally important, if there's a clear reason, it's not solely for the sake of plot, but also because of that other reason. Thor getting a power up from something he did, whether he did it intentionally or not and new about it or not, and going on to beat someone up, is not PIS. It's only PIS if he goes around beating people up that he normally can't with no power up.
If he continues to beat down the Silver Surfer in this arc and it turns out to be from a scratch on his belly then it is the very definition of PIS, sorry if you disagree. he has held his own against the SS, even beat him once when he was amped (Power gem I believe?), this is true. Surfer has also outright dominated him and shown that Thor is not even close to being in his league under normal circumstances.
Also, at one point we said the same thing (I said "it's not PIS if the story provides a legitimate reason for something" and then you say "if it is a legitimate reason, [it is not PIS]") so you just confuse me.
Sorry for the confusion, getting a scratch on your belly is not a legitimate reason.
I'm not sure where the sarcastic attitude comes from either. It's not like my post was any sort of condescension or attack that would require you to be defensive in your response. I imagine you took it the wrong way or are just way too sensitive.
Your right, I must have taken it the wrong way. I made a post that agreed with the point you were trying to get across and the reply you decide to post was attempting to school me on the definition of PIS but otherwise ignoring the rest of what I wrote. I apologize for the confusion, it wont happen again.
lol, "tirade"
Anyways, I'm done with this discussion, good day to you o/
@CapitolPunishment: You don't understand what PIS is. You agreeing with me on one thing in no ways means everything you're saying is correct. I still don't know why you're reacting so strongly though when I was just trying to help you out. (I gotta say though, you calling my two line response a tirade makes me laugh. I mean, have you ever actually seen me get into a disagreement before? I've literally written half a dozen pages in response to people numerous times without realizing it. Two lines doesn't measure up to that, let alone when I actually go off on rant.) If you're offended by me not acknowledging the rest of your post where you agreed with me, I'm sorry, but I didn't have anything to add to that. I wasn't trying to slight you, there was just nothing for me to say and I don't go around thanking or applauding people for agreeing with me. Lots of people agree with me, I don't really think that deserves a pat on the back (and I don't expect one when I agree with others).
Anyway, back to you not knowing what PIS is. PIS has nothing to do with someone knowing they got a power up or not. It has little to do with if the plot device is stupid or not. It's called PIS because the plot is the only reason (there is no in-story element at play) for a character to act stupid (not in a way they normally would with their powers). In your example you name the world tree as plot, but that isn't PIS. If you can point to a clear, in-story, reason for the character to act differently (which you did with the world tree) then it's not solely the plot. And getting a scratch from the tree isn't stupidity. The stupidity would have to be Thor neglecting his powers. It seems like you see PIS as something in the plot being stupid and causing the characters to act too powerful. That's incorrect. It's when the plot, on its own, causes a character to under-perform. I feel like I should say, I keep saying, "the plot, on its own" because technically everything is driven by plot. Usually though, the plot is covered up by an element of the story. When it's just the plot on its own, then there's a problem. So again, if Thor got powered up by the world tree without knowing it, it wouldn't be PIS because it's not the plot on its own (it would be clearly because of the world tree) and he didn't neglect his powers. The world tree would be a plot device, but the entire thing would not be an instance of PIS.
(I'd also disagree with you on the point that there was no indication of the possibility of Thor getting stronger. I don't think he really did, but I definitely think there's more to suggest he got stronger than weaker. Thor has never dented Surfer before and he did it with a headbutt right before the battle. Anyway, that's a minor detail.)
A shift in focus, as in your iron man example, is not PIS, even if it results in people being in a fight they can't win. If the team can't win the fight on their own, that's what should happen. Just because they didn't expect to be without back up doesn't mean it's PIS. What would be PIS is if they won for no discernible reason. Iron Man being affected by a legitimate story element isn't PIS. It might be PIS if Tony forgot and there's no reason for that, but you said it was a solar flare so there is a reason. If Tony forgot for no reason it would still be PIS because it happened in order to serve the plot and for no other reason. That would also be WIS because the writer created the PIS. The terms are interchangeable because the writer controls the plot. Hopefully I don't have to explain to you what a synonym is. Just because there are two terms doesn't mean they're two different things.
If Thor beats Surfer, it's not PIS. The tree would be a plot device that allowed him to beat the surfer, but it wouldn't be PIS because we have a clear reason from an element in the story that gives him a legitimate reason to win (if we're assuming that the wound powers him up). Even if there was no reason and Surfer lost horribly, it would technically be PIS on the surfer's part because he's the one neglecting his powers, not Thor (that's also a minor thing because really we'd just call the whole fight PIS).
I understand exactly what it is, you simply disagree with that, end of story. Because I am a somewhat new user to the vine means nothing in terms of how long I have been reading comics, my understanding of them and what the term PIS means. (Please note I am not accusing you of saying that)
You agreeing with me on one thing in no ways means everything you're saying is correct.
I never said I was, I was voicing my opinion on how I think the story may unfold, nothing else.
I still don't know why you're reacting so strongly though when I was just trying to help you out. (I gotta say though, you calling my two line response a tirade makes me laugh. I mean, have you ever actually seen me get into a disagreement before? I've literally written half a dozen pages in response to people numerous times without realizing it. Two lines doesn't measure up to that, let alone when I actually go off on rant.)
I appreciate that you were trying to help me out, thank you. I don't think I was acting strongly at all, I was simply responding to you. When someone puts up a post on the internet directed towards someone else about something it will sometimes translate differently to the user it was directed at, just how it has been shown thus far in our discussion. Sarcasm is one of those things that do not translate well on forums. Yes, I have seen you go on and on about things before mainly because you you post similar points over and over again. I mean no offense by saying that, I know you do this to try and your point across clearly.
If you're offended by me not acknowledging the rest of your post where you agreed with me, I'm sorry, but I didn't have anything to add to that. I wasn't trying to slight you, there was just nothing for me to say and I don't go around thanking or applauding people for agreeing with me. Lots of people agree with me, I don't really think that deserves a pat on the back (and I don't expect one when I agree with others).
I didn't ask, expect or quite frankly even care if you said "thank you" nor did i expect any phrase for agreeing with you. My point is that instead of just ignoring my post you went out of your way to give me a lesson on what you consider PIS and now we are in disagreement.
Anyway, back to you not knowing what PIS is. PIS has nothing to do with someone knowing they got a power up or not. It has little to do with if the plot device is stupid or not. It's called PIS because the plot is the only reason (there is no in-story element at play) for a character to act stupid (not in a way they normally would with their powers). In your example you name the world tree as plot, but that isn't PIS. If you can point to a clear, in-story, reason for the character to act differently (which you did with the world tree) then it's not solely the plot. And getting a scratch from the tree isn't stupidity. The stupidity would have to be Thor neglecting his powers. It seems like you see PIS as something in the plot being stupid and causing the characters to act too powerful.
As I said, there has not been PIS in the story yet. If Thor, in the next issue continues to beat down the Surfer easily and it is later stated he was empowered by the world tree (as some stupid from of defense against Galactus and the SS) I would say that is PIS and so would anyone who ever talks about the fight from there on out. I understand the point you are trying to get across but to me but it does not make much sense. If what you are suggesting to not be PIS, then there would be so such thing as PIS.
If this is the case give me a hard example of what you would call PIS.
That's incorrect. It's when the plot, on its own, causes a character to under-perform. I feel like I should say, I keep saying, "the plot, on its own" because technically everything is driven by plot. Usually though, the plot is covered up by an element of the story. When it's just the plot on its own, then there's a problem. So again, if Thor got powered up by the world tree without knowing it, it wouldn't be PIS because it's not the plot on its own (it would be clearly because of the world tree) and he didn't neglect his powers. The world tree would be a plot device, but the entire thing would not be an instance of PIS.
A character does not have to "under perform' for something to be PIS. Events that happen in a comic that shouldn't have but are influenced directly by the plot of that comic can be PIS as well. As I said, I would still call that example PIS, Thor was holding his stomach saying he is injured, Sif told him not to go fight, Loki is looking for a cure to help him. He then fly's up to space and somehow starts thrashing someone who stomps him on a regular basis? Right..
(I'd also disagree with you on the point that there was no indication of the possibility of Thor getting stronger. I don't think he really did, but I definitely think there's more to suggest he got stronger than weaker. Thor has never dented Surfer before and he did it with a headbutt right before the battle. Anyway, that's a minor detail.)
As I said above, why was he holding his gut, moaning in bed, has his midsection wrapped up, has Sif begging him not to fight and Loki in on a wild goose chase looking to "cure" him. He also smashed his own head open and was bleeding all over when he headbutted Surfer and frankly Surfer didn't even seem to care.
A shift in focus, as in your iron man example, is not PIS, even if it results in people being in a fight they can't win. If the team can't win the fight on their own, that's what should happen. Just because they didn't expect to be without back up doesn't mean it's PIS. What would be PIS is if they won for no discernible reason. Iron Man being affected by a legitimate story element isn't PIS. It might be PIS if Tony forgot and there's no reason for that, but you said it was a solar flare so there is a reason. If Tony forgot for no reason it would still be PIS because it happened in order to serve the plot and for no other reason.That would also be WIS because the writer created the PIS. The terms are interchangeable because the writer controls the plot.
It seems that we agree but are in disagreement on what a legitimate reason for the terminology would be.
Hopefully I don't have to explain to you what a synonym is. Just because there are two terms doesn't mean they're two different things.
Now you are going to be my English teacher too?! I'll pass.
If Thor beats Surfer, it's not PIS. The tree would be a plot device that allowed him to beat the surfer, but it wouldn't be PIS because we have a clear reason from an element in the story that gives him a legitimate reason to win (if we're assuming that the wound powers him up). Even if there was no reason and Surfer lost horribly, it would technically be PIS on the surfer's part because he's the one neglecting his powers, not Thor (that's also a minor thing because really we'd just call the whole fight PIS).
Then this whole arc is PIS if PIS is what you say. Galactus, in character would one shot Odin and devour Asgard unless he has some form of plot device protecting him. I have yet to read Galactus is weakened or hungry.
Majestic Wins...He beats Thor by using his speed to his advantage then he can fight Adam more freely and his greater fighting ability would serve him well
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